The Hobbit - Page 10 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #271 of 944 Old 03-05-2012, 10:12 PM
Member
 
stevenmartin625's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i read the novel like 5 times and i wanna see this film. is this going to be in 3D ?
stevenmartin625 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #272 of 944 Old 03-05-2012, 11:26 PM
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 19,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenmartin625 View Post

i read the novel like 5 times and i wanna see this film. is this going to be in 3D ?

Yes - it is being shot in 3D at 48 FPS - the first commerical film to do so.
Lee Stewart is offline  
post #273 of 944 Old 03-06-2012, 12:45 AM
Member
 
stevenmartin625's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Yes - it is being shot in 3D at 48 FPS - the first commerical film to do so.

nice i'm definitely gonna go watch this movie. thanks for the info
stevenmartin625 is offline  
post #274 of 944 Old 04-24-2012, 03:03 PM
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 19,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
CinemaCon 2012: Peter Jackson Debuts 'The Hobbit' Footage, Touts 48 Frame-Per-Second Exhibition

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...f-rings-315685
Lee Stewart is offline  
post #275 of 944 Old 04-24-2012, 04:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mr. wally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: land of the pumas
Posts: 3,805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

CinemaCon 2012: Peter Jackson Debuts 'The Hobbit' Footage, Touts 48 Frame-Per-Second Exhibition

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...f-rings-315685

amazing how he can shoot a film at 48fps and not be able to accurately transfer the ee of fotr.

neflixis our nemesis
mr. wally is online now  
post #276 of 944 Old 04-24-2012, 06:04 PM
Senior Member
 
ssjLancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
These impressions are looking pretty negative. Moviegoers claim that it looks like BBC video, that the sets look fake, motion interpolation, that it looks like a soap opera.
ssjLancer is offline  
post #277 of 944 Old 04-24-2012, 06:15 PM
 
lwright84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Were the screenings in 2D or 3D?
lwright84 is offline  
post #278 of 944 Old 04-24-2012, 06:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lordcloud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 2,308
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. Wally View Post

amazing how he can shoot a film at 48fps and not be able to accurately transfer the ee of fotr.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

I LOVE MOVIES!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

lordcloud is offline  
post #279 of 944 Old 04-24-2012, 07:33 PM
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 19,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by lwright84 View Post

Were the screenings in 2D or 3D?

From THR link:

Quote:


LAS VEGAS -- Warner Bros. showed 10 minutes of 3D footage from The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey at 48 frames per second after director Peter Jackson said in a videotaped message that he hopes his movie can be played in 48fps in as many cinemas as possible when it opens Dec. 14.

Lee Stewart is offline  
post #280 of 944 Old 04-24-2012, 07:36 PM
 
lwright84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Hmm, I don't know... this is one of those things I'm gonna have to see for myself. Perception is just too subjective (hah).
lwright84 is offline  
post #281 of 944 Old 04-24-2012, 07:42 PM
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 19,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:


Based on the buzz that accompanied the exit from the Caesar's Palace theater, at least some theater owners and film bloggers were unimpressed. It should be said that much of the footage Jackson screened still needed effects work -- some of it had green screens in the background -- but the impact was more Spanish telenovela than “Avatar.”

http://www.thewrap.com/movies/column...-lacking-37254
Lee Stewart is offline  
post #282 of 944 Old 04-24-2012, 09:36 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 18,810
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 547 Post(s)
Liked: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjLancer View Post

These impressions are looking pretty negative. Moviegoers claim that it looks like BBC video, that the sets look fake, motion interpolation, that it looks like a soap opera.

Wrote this over a year ago in this very thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

48fps. Could end up looking like that SmoothMotion feature on modern TVs. Not quite as smooth as 60fps (video), but almost.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=145

If people didn't like how the smooth motion feature looks on a TV then why were they expecting to like it any better on a big screen (where there is an even greater expectation of 24fps cadence)?

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #283 of 944 Old 04-24-2012, 10:46 PM
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 19,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Christie and RealD Debut Brightest Commercially Available 3D Dual Projection System at Cinemacon

Scenes from Warner Bros. Pictures’ “The Hobbit” Brought to Life in 48 Frames per Second on Massive Silver Screen

http://www.dcinematoday.com/dc/pr.aspx?newsID=2784
Lee Stewart is offline  
post #284 of 944 Old 04-25-2012, 01:40 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
oink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Shuloch
Posts: 26,553
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 814
http://www.slashfilm.com/cinemacon-t...eron-promised/
The change from 24 frames per second to 48 frames per second is HUGE. It completely changes what every image looks like, the movements, the tone, everything is different.

It looked like a made for television BBC movie.

It looked like when you turn your LCD television to the 120 hertz up-conversion setting.

It looked uncompromisingly real — so much so that it looked fake.

More noticeable in the footage was the make-up, the sets, the costumes. Hobbiton and Middle Earth didn’t feel like a different universe, it felt like a special effect, a film set with actors in costumes. It looked like behind the scenes footage.

The movement of the actors looked… strange. Almost as if the performances had been partly sped up. But the dialogue matched the movement of the lips, so it wasn’t an effect of speed-ramping.

It didn’t look cinematic. Not at all, even with a top filmmaker like Peter Jackson at the helm.




Seriously....what were they expecting?

A.P.S. deserve our protection....join the cause today!
oink is offline  
post #285 of 944 Old 04-25-2012, 02:59 PM
Advanced Member
 
RolandOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 765
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
This is incredibly disappointing to hear. I hope they come to their senses before it's too late.
RolandOG is offline  
post #286 of 944 Old 04-25-2012, 11:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Sean Nelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Posts: 3,304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

It didn't look cinematic. Not at all, even with a top filmmaker like Peter Jackson at the helm.

For a lot of people "cinematic" means that anything moving on the screen looks "stroboscopic". I don't see that as a plus, but based on videography forums I frequent where people argue the relative benefits of 24p vs. 30p vs 60p there seem to be a surprising number of people out there that do.

I'm reserving judgement on this until I see the finished product for myself.
Sean Nelson is offline  
post #287 of 944 Old 04-26-2012, 01:15 AM
Member
 
Nick Laslett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 89
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
All this controversy has to be good for “The Hobbit”. Hopefully it will generate a lot of free marketing and raising awareness of the film.

Most of the general commentary on the topic is pretty moot. Very few people have seen the actual footage. Those that did, saw a 10 minute show reel with lots of cuts, not the best basis on which to form an opinion.

The film will actually be released in traditional 24fps, 2D film print edition too. So those that have a real issue with the aesthetics can see it that way anyway.

Film is not just a visual medium, the visuals should be in service of the narrative. We like to experience good stories, with strong visuals. The actual look and feel of a film is less important than the quality of the story telling and how it is served by those visuals. People put up with watching movies transmitted in 4:3 pan and scan 60hz interlaced NTSC on 20” TVs for decades and still enjoyed them.

You might not like the aesthetics of the 48fps, 3D 4K digital projection of “The Hobbit”, but if it is a well executed story then to dismiss it only due to the aesthetic is foolish.

Ishtar* and Heaven’s Gate* didn’t suddenly become good films because they were shot on film, with good production design and projected at 24fps. The story telling still sucked. “The Hobbit” won’t be a disaster in 48fps if the story telling is good. (*insert poor film of choice, I assume you get my point.)

You can even see it twice, once in 48fps 3D and then 24fps 2D and at least have a subjective opinion based on the full evidence before you pronounce the folly of 48fps digital cinema, if that is the way you see it.
Nick Laslett is offline  
post #288 of 944 Old 04-26-2012, 01:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MovieSwede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Gothenburg
Posts: 6,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

It looked uncompromisingly real so much so that it looked fake.

More noticeable in the footage was the make-up, the sets, the costumes. Hobbiton and Middle Earth didn't feel like a different universe, it felt like a special effect, a film set with actors in costumes. It looked like behind the scenes footage.

Yes that has been my critisism for years about shooting at faster frame rates. 24P will help mask fake stuff.

In sweden alot of made for television drama has been shoot on 50i video the last 30 years. And they all looked extremly fake in their studio setting. Despite nothing really looked wrong it still didnt look right.

Just swithing between 50i and 25P on a videocamera made wonders for the estetics.

Good movies are as rare as an on topic discussion.
MovieSwede is offline  
post #289 of 944 Old 04-26-2012, 05:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Joe Bloggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

If people didn't like how the smooth motion feature looks on a TV then why were they expecting to like it any better on a big screen (where there is an even greater expectation of 24fps cadence)?

Because they are shooting increased frames per second instead of having the display make fake in-between frames.
And a lot of people do like the smooth motion feature, others don't, not necessarily because they don't like hi-motion, but because they are fake frames instead of higher fps shot by the camera.
Joe Bloggs is online now  
post #290 of 944 Old 04-26-2012, 06:12 AM
sb1
AVS Special Member
 
sb1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,252
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

http://www.slashfilm.com/cinemacon-t...eron-promised/
The change from 24 frames per second to 48 frames per second is HUGE. It completely changes what every image looks like, the movements, the tone, everything is different.

It looked like a made for television BBC movie.

It looked like when you turn your LCD television to the 120 hertz up-conversion setting.

It looked uncompromisingly real so much so that it looked fake.

More noticeable in the footage was the make-up, the sets, the costumes. Hobbiton and Middle Earth didn't feel like a different universe, it felt like a special effect, a film set with actors in costumes. It looked like behind the scenes footage.

The movement of the actors looked strange. Almost as if the performances had been partly sped up. But the dialogue matched the movement of the lips, so it wasn't an effect of speed-ramping.

It didn't look cinematic. Not at all, even with a top filmmaker like Peter Jackson at the helm.




Seriously....what were they expecting?

Ah, hell. Ain't nothin' gobs of DNR can't fix when the BD comes out. So what if a few fingers and hobbit toes are missing.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

sb1 is offline  
post #291 of 944 Old 04-26-2012, 08:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
adpayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Camp Lake,WI
Posts: 1,505
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Laslett View Post

Most of the general commentary on the topic is pretty moot. Very few people have seen the actual footage. Those that did, saw a 10 minute show reel with lots of cuts, not the best basis on which to form an opinion.

This.


It was not finished footage. Has anyone ever seen a film before color grading, etc? It looks a lot more "real" or "fake", however you want to describe it, than the final product.

I'm sure some won't like the 48fps look, but you can't please everyone. The irony being that 24fps only became the standard due to cost concerns, not artistic reasons.

Maybe I deal with change better than most due to working in IT for almost 3 decades.
adpayne is offline  
post #292 of 944 Old 04-26-2012, 09:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RobertR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: California
Posts: 6,104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by adpayne View Post

This.


It was not finished footage. Has anyone ever seen a film before color grading, etc? It looks a lot more "real" or "fake", however you want to describe it, than the final product.

I'm sure some won't like the 48fps look, but you can't please everyone.

Let's all hope that Jackson damn well DOES fix the look in the finished film. It certainly won't help if he adopts Lucasesque "I don't give a rat's ass how many people I piss off, my opinion is the ONLY thing that matters" tunnel vision, and declares anyone who doesn't agree with him to be some sort of reactionary Luddite.
RobertR is offline  
post #293 of 944 Old 04-26-2012, 09:56 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 18,810
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 547 Post(s)
Liked: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Because they are shooting increased frames per second instead of having the display make fake in-between frames.
And a lot of people do like the smooth motion feature, others don't, not necessarily because they don't like hi-motion, but because they are fake frames instead of higher fps shot by the camera.

That's possible, but I doubt people can tell real frames from fake frames while in motion. The reaction to the Hobbit footage demonstrates that smooth motion, even when not derived via interpolation, still makes some people uncomfortable. I really do think it boils down to cadence and that we've been conditioned to associate smoother motion with video/TV.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #294 of 944 Old 04-26-2012, 11:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MovieSwede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Gothenburg
Posts: 6,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by adpayne View Post

I'm sure some won't like the 48fps look, but you can't please everyone. The irony being that 24fps only became the standard due to cost concerns, not artistic reasons.

24fps may have been cost in combination with quality (or we would have 1 fps). But on the other hand 48fps could have been the standard 40 years ago. But was dropped because of estetics reason (well economy had a play as usual)

Quote:


Maybe I deal with change better than most due to working in IT for almost 3 decades.

This isnt about technology, its not about making a car go twice as fast on half the fuel. 48fps gives film a certain look that have a certain videoish quality to it. In art its not just about recreating what the eye can see, its to create emotions in people that watch the movie.

Take a movie like 300 as an example. The characters doesnt look real, the setting doesnt look real, the creatures doesnt look real. Why is it important that the PQ looks real? The only thing 48fps can do is remind us how fake everything is.

Good movies are as rare as an on topic discussion.
MovieSwede is offline  
post #295 of 944 Old 04-26-2012, 11:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
adidino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR_IN_LA View Post

I cannot believe I am hearing complaints about Jackson trying to film another triology!

He did such a powerful job on the first one, and you guys are complaining??

LOL. I was thinking the same thing. Some people just enjoy complaining I guess. It's pretty silly if you ask me. I'm looking forward to it.
adidino is offline  
post #296 of 944 Old 04-26-2012, 11:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RobertR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: California
Posts: 6,104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 378
Quote:


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR_IN_LA View Post
I cannot believe I am hearing complaints about Jackson trying to film another triology!

He did such a powerful job on the first one, and you guys are complaining??


Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

LOL. I was thinking the same thing. Some people just enjoy complaining I guess. It's pretty silly if you ask me. I'm looking forward to it.

I don't understand these comments. Are you saying that a previous success guarantees a filmmaker lifelong immunity from criticism? Of ANY kind whatsoever?

Sounds like the attitude some people have towards the maker of a certain space opera- "he's a movie god, and don't you dare question him".
RobertR is offline  
post #297 of 944 Old 04-26-2012, 12:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
adidino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

I don't understand these comments. Are you saying that a previous success guarantees a filmmaker lifelong immunity from criticism? Of ANY kind whatsoever?

Sounds like the attitude some people have towards the maker of a certain space opera- "he's a movie god, and don't you dare question him".

No. What I am saying is we should be a little more optimistic considering what he accomplished with LOTR. He should also be allowed to do his job as a director and create this film in his own vision as he did with LOTR and not be distracted my some fans POV.

Have some faith in an accomplished director. Nothing is guaranteed but he has a proven track record with LOTR so am I optimistic.
adidino is offline  
post #298 of 944 Old 04-26-2012, 12:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
MovieSwede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Gothenburg
Posts: 6,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

No. What I am saying is we should be a little more optimistic considering what he accomplished with LOTR. He should also be allowed to do his job as a director and create this film in his own vision as he did with LOTR and not be distracted my some fans POV.

Have some faith in an accomplished director. Nothing is guaranteed but he has a proven track record with LOTR so am I optimistic.

Fellowship: 5/5
Two Towers: 4/5
Return: 3/5
King Kong 2/5

Good movies are as rare as an on topic discussion.
MovieSwede is offline  
post #299 of 944 Old 04-26-2012, 12:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RobertR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: California
Posts: 6,104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

No. What I am saying is we should be a little more optimistic considering what he accomplished with LOTR. He should also be allowed to do his job as a director and create this film in his own vision as he did with LOTR and not be distracted my some fans POV.

Have some faith in an accomplished director. Nothing is guaranteed but he has a proven track record with LOTR so am I optimistic.

Of course everyone WANTS the movie to be good, so talk of being "unoptimistic" makes no sense. "Optimism" should not be used as an excuse to dismiss genuine, legitimate concerns, however. Moviemakers are fallible human beings, not some object to have "faith" in (again, "faith" smacks of viewing them more as gods than people). Peter Jackson's efforts will be judged by what he puts on screen, not on "belief" in him.
RobertR is offline  
post #300 of 944 Old 04-26-2012, 12:55 PM
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 19,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

Take a movie like 300 as an example. The characters doesnt look real, the setting doesnt look real, the creatures doesnt look real. Why is it important that the PQ looks real? The only thing 48fps can do is remind us how fake everything is.

I disagree. Movies today look totally fake due to the limitations of the camera lenses. The human eye far exceeds even the very best camera lens when it comes to focus and depth of field, let alone panning.

What HFR (High Frame Rate) movies will do is make movies more real to the audience. This inturn will heighten the audiences emotions. I have already seen this when I saw Showscan (70mm @ 60 FPS).

Also keep in mind that THE HOBBITT's 48 FPS will be 3D only.

Quote:
The reply to these criticisms by Jackson (and James Cameron) has always been that 3D is better suited to faster frame rates than 2D -- making it more immersive, reducing headaches and improving stereoscopy.

Lee Stewart is offline  
Reply Movies, Concerts, and Music Discussion

Tags
Blu Ray Movies , The Lord Of The Rings The Motion Picture Trilogy The Fellowship Of The Ring The Two Towers The Retur

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off