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post #31 of 2394 Old 06-18-2009, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Everdog View Post

Ouch, my head almost exploded.

Aliens (2) ....lots of fighting, killing and sacrifice to save an innocent little girl named "Newt".
Alien 3..."Oh, Newt? Yeah, she died.

Its like a sequal to Casablanca where we find that Ingrid Bergman died when her plane crashed 10 seconds after take off. Or even better, a TV show where we find out that the previous season was just a dream.

Ughh. Thanks for reminding me. They completely undid every heroic thing that happened in Aliens by killing off Newt and Hicks in Alien3.

Aliens was fairly heroic, although they end up losing (except the nuke gottem!), Alien 3 was so depressing I would rather not think about that one. There was nothing uplifting about that movie...

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post #32 of 2394 Old 06-18-2009, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Everdog View Post

Ouch, my head almost exploded.

Aliens (2) ....lots of fighting, killing and sacrifice to save an innocent little girl named "Newt".
Alien 3..."Oh, Newt? Yeah, she died.

Its like a sequal to Casablanca where we find that Ingrid Bergman died when her plane crashed 10 seconds after take off. Or even better, a TV show where we find out that the previous season was just a dream.

Well, he did say "Alien" and not "Aliens"

I like Alien 3 (DC) better than Aliens though, so feel free to rip on me. I think because it's more of a horror movie and Aliens is more of an action movie, complete with stupid over-the-top marines, stupid over-the-top marine commanders, lame (IMO) little child in trouble plotline, and corny one-liners.

Not that I don't like Aliens, mind you (I do think it's a great action movie and thoroughly enjoy it)...I just like the single-alien horror movie aspect of the Alien 3 better than the action movie aspect of Aliens.

And I know I'm in the minority in that but no big deal. Feel free to internet-flame me and try mercilessly to change my opinion (or we could act like adults and realize different people have different opinions, but that would not be the interwebs we all know and love!).
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post #33 of 2394 Old 06-18-2009, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mproper View Post

Well, he did say "Alien" and not "Aliens"

I like Alien 3 (DC) better than Aliens though, so feel free to rip on me. I think because it's more of a horror movie and Aliens is more of an action movie, complete with stupid over-the-top marines, stupid over-the-top marine commanders, lame (IMO) little child in trouble plotline, and corny one-liners.

Not that I don't like Aliens, mind you (I do think it's a great action movie and thoroughly enjoy it)...I just like the single-alien horror movie aspect of the Alien 3 better than the action movie aspect of Aliens.

And I know I'm in the minority in that but no big deal. Feel free to internet-flame me and try mercilessly to change my opinion (or we could act like adults and realize different people have different opinions, but that would not be the interwebs we all know and love!).

You are not the only one to post at the Forum with this view...I respect it.

For me at least, neither 1 nor 3 scares the shite outta me like Aliens.
Of course, it is just my perspective.

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post #34 of 2394 Old 06-19-2009, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mproper View Post

I like Alien 3 (DC) better than Aliens though, so feel free to rip on me.

It's all subjective and it OK that you and others like Alien 3. IMHO, it was lazy writing of the script. How would people feel if at the start of Rocky 3, he admitted he took steroids and wore brass knuckles under his gloves in his fights with Apollo (Rocky 1 & 2)? It would make a good story but completely trash those first 2 movies.
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post #35 of 2394 Old 06-19-2009, 10:04 AM
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For those interested and according to Bill Hunt, the Alien Quadrilogy BD release (which was slated for this fall) has been delayed to 2010.
Probably to coincide with this Alien prequel IMO.

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post #36 of 2394 Old 06-19-2009, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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That's disappointing. I was really looking forward to that this fall.

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post #37 of 2394 Old 06-19-2009, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by thehun View Post

Right but that would make it a "remake" not a prequel. Scott did mention in his commentary on Alien that he was interested to explore the origins of the Alien life-form, like where it is come from ETC, but he said nothing of an earlier encounter with humans, which is really just a same old story, that we saw several times by now.

Not really. A meeting with humans could pre date the alien movie, but go in a different direction. To be honest, that's the only way I see a prequel going, that doesn't suck. There's no way it could be all aliens without it costing a shitload of money and it would end up being kind of weird to boot. Humans have to be in there in some way in order for it to be interesting.

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post #38 of 2394 Old 06-19-2009, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

Speaking of Predator, Robert Rodriquez is quoted in the July issue of Sci-Fi magazine he is developing a sequel, to be entitled "Predators" (like Cameron's Aliens).

The story will take place on the Predator Planet in a jungle environment.

sweet!

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post #39 of 2394 Old 06-19-2009, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

Not really. A meeting with humans could pre date the alien movie, but go in a different direction. To be honest, that's the only way I see a prequel going, that doesn't suck. There's no way it could be all aliens without it costing a shitload of money and it would end up being kind of weird to boot. Humans have to be in there in some way in order for it to be interesting.

What direction would it go? If Humans never met that species before how else they would react to it then the Nostromo's crew did? The only option I see is that humans observe them without being detected, with no direct contact.


I do agree that they would never produce an all alien movie, but not because of the cost, but because the general audience just wouldn't accept it, only the die hard fans.

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post #40 of 2394 Old 06-20-2009, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by thehun View Post

What direction would it go? If Humans never met that species before how else they would react to it then the Nostromo's crew did? The only option I see is that humans observe them without being detected, with no direct contact.

OR, the Company kept secret other contacts.

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post #41 of 2394 Old 06-20-2009, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

Not really. A meeting with humans could pre date the alien movie, but go in a different direction. To be honest, that's the only way I see a prequel going, that doesn't suck.

I agree. I think it would be really cool to see a human ship have interaction with an alien (or aliens) that eventually ends with an explanation of the ship that was putting out the warning beacon that the Nostromo found in the beginning of Alien.

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post #42 of 2394 Old 06-20-2009, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

OR, the Company kept secret other contacts.

Yeah, the Company obviously knew about it. Ash was programmed to bring it back and the crew was listed as expendable. It's possible they've had other attempts to collect a specimen that failed.

It also depends on how much (if any) of the AvP movies you consider part of the canon.

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post #43 of 2394 Old 06-20-2009, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Yeah, the Company obviously knew about it. Ash was programmed to bring it back and the crew was listed as expendable. It's possible they've had other attempts to collect a specimen that failed.

It also depends on how much (if any) of the AvP movies you consider part of the canon.

Great point. I'd forgotten about that tidbit of information with Ash. As far as AVP goes....I'd just rather forget they were ever made. However, was Ash's order and, I don't know..."prime directive" already there, or was it implemented by their bosses after the Alien life form was discovered? I honestly can't remember.

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post #44 of 2394 Old 06-20-2009, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post


It also depends on how much (if any) of the AvP movies you consider part of the canon.

The AVP abortions are made by ...OK, I'll not speak my mind on those. I think No is the general consensus?

Yes, there is a fantastic story to be mined, but the muck is monywood will kill it at every turn. We can hope.
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post #45 of 2394 Old 06-20-2009, 07:53 PM
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For those interested and according to Bill Hunt, the Alien Quadrilogy BD release (which was slated for this fall) has been delayed to 2010.
Probably to coincide with this Alien prequel IMO.

One of the top sets of all time. The disk 2s are watchable on their own as a series. Fantastic work from Charles and company. Even though he might consider Blade Runner FC his high order project, the work on Alien Q and Kingdom is first rate.

As for Alien pre? I think everyone is waiting on JC to see if there's still big returns in real SciFi.
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post #46 of 2394 Old 06-20-2009, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Yeah, the Company obviously knew about it. Ash was programmed to bring it back and the crew was listed as expendable. It's possible they've had other attempts to collect a specimen that failed.

I had forgotten about Ash.
But, yeah, that is one avenue that could be investigated (and I'll bet it is addressed in some way in this prequel).


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It also depends on how much (if any) of the AvP movies you consider part of the canon.

I don't consider the AvPs to be strictly Alien "canon," I consider it separate, although related.


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One of the top sets of all time. The disk 2s are watchable on their own as a series. Fantastic work from Charles and company. Even though he might consider Blade Runner FC his high order project, the work on Alien Q and Kingdom is first rate.

The Quadrilogy is one of the best sets ever released IMO.


Quote:


As for Alien pre? I think everyone is waiting on JC to see if there's still big returns in real SciFi.

I don't think real SciFi is dead at all, quality (has been lacking of late) will be what will put butts in the seats.

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post #47 of 2394 Old 06-21-2009, 12:32 AM
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Alien prequel (untitled) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1446714/
Predators http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1424381/

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post #48 of 2394 Old 06-21-2009, 06:28 PM
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I don't think real SciFi is dead at all, quality (has been lacking of late) will be what will put butts in the seats.

That's certainly what we think! They do screw up on occasion and let a director push one out
I should be thankful?
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post #49 of 2394 Old 06-22-2009, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by thehun View Post

What direction would it go? If Humans never met that species before how else they would react to it then the Nostromo's crew did? The only option I see is that humans observe them without being detected, with no direct contact.


I do agree that they would never produce an all alien movie, but not because of the cost, but because the general audience just wouldn't accept it, only the die hard fans.

I think the humans having no contact would also be interesting, but only for the die hard fans as well. And it would take a hell of a script and director to make it interesting for two hours.

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post #50 of 2394 Old 06-22-2009, 08:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

I think the humans having no contact would also be interesting, but only for the die hard fans as well. And it would take a hell of a script and director to make it interesting for two hours.

I've always been interested in seeing where the Aliens originally came from and what events transpired that brought them to seek out new worlds.

If humans must be involved, all I ask is that their inclusion doesn't derail the entire film, ala Transformers.
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post #51 of 2394 Old 06-22-2009, 08:40 AM
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I've always been interested in seeing where the Aliens originally came from and what events transpired that brought them to seek out new worlds.

I always just pictured them as a virus, and they weren't really intelligent enough to "seek out new worlds" as opposed to just spreading around like pollen....incubating unsuspecting travellers who would then transport them back to their homeworlds, spreading it like a plague.

I like the idea that they're basically just dumb animals doing what animals do (similar to how you can't really judge a shark or rattlesnake for simply doing what they do). sure they're good hunters, but so are many animals.
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post #52 of 2394 Old 06-22-2009, 10:10 AM
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I always just pictured them as a virus, and they weren't really intelligent enough to "seek out new worlds" as opposed to just spreading around like pollen....incubating unsuspecting travellers who would then transport them back to their homeworlds, spreading it like a plague.

I like the idea that they're basically just dumb animals doing what animals do (similar to how you can't really judge a shark or rattlesnake for simply doing what they do). sure they're good hunters, but so are many animals.

If my memory serves me correctly, the comic explained them as intelligent dumb animals basically. They are intelligent, but at the same time, they do what they do because it's what they do. Nothing behind it, they just have to make sure their species survives.

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post #53 of 2394 Old 06-22-2009, 10:56 AM
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The Alien is an intelligent creature.

A few obvious instances come to mind.
The alien that stowed away on Ripley's shuttle in the first film.
Rather than kill or impregnate, it retired into the duct work and basically shut-down, with the implication being it chose to escape rather than risk a fight.
The whole ship to choose from and it chose the escape pod, beating Ripley to it BTW.

In Aliens, the Queen tried to fool Ripley in to dropping her guard in the chamber.
Also, she communicated to the grunts to back off and let her try to deal with Ripley.

The scene in Resurrection where 3 aliens were in a "study" cell.
Two of them ganged up and killed the 3rd for the purposes of using its acid to burn a hole in the floor and escape.

There are other instances in the films where significant amounts of intelligence is displayed.
I believe the evidence, as shown so far in the series, indicates these critters are at least as smart as the chimp.

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post #54 of 2394 Old 06-22-2009, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

If my memory serves me correctly, the comic explained them as intelligent dumb animals basically. They are intelligent, but at the same time, they do what they do because it's what they do. Nothing behind it, they just have to make sure their species survives.

Yeah, comparing them to "chimps" or "wolves" is probably good...there's some good intelligence/pack/predator instinct mentality there, but I wouldn't think they'd be intelligent enough to formulate plans to (as the poster I quoted said) "venture out and seek new worlds" or anything.

Just somewhat "dumb" creatures doing what creatures do. I've always liked them just for that behavior....they're not really "bad" or "evil" but the humans are really just encroaching into their environment and you can't blame them for just doing what comes natural....the same way I can't blame an alligator for eating a dumb kid who is swimming in the water next to it....hey, that's what alligators do. It's in their nature.
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post #55 of 2394 Old 06-22-2009, 03:48 PM
 
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Fine, I can accept any or all of the above postulations in regard to intelligence of our Aliens...however:

How did the they get on the planet found in the first movie? This was obviously NOT their home world, as there was nothing indicating that they had anything to eat or use as a womb for their new broods before the terra-formers from Earth arrived.

We may perhaps assume that the giant ship found there was that of another, yet unseen species...but even then, that explanation only works if we assume that the Aliens were stowaways onboard that ship, having impregnated those travelers. If this is indeed the case, then that must be the plotline to the prequel, meaning that we are to see that unknown race traveling to the Alien homeworld, and thusly, that there will be no humans whatsoever in the film. (Which I think would be superb.)
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post #56 of 2394 Old 06-22-2009, 04:28 PM
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There's no way Fox is going to make an expensive movie like that and not have humans involved. They'll sooner make some ludicrous plot point to get humans into the picture than take a risk like that.

If they go the "Space Jockey" route (the dead pilot of the non-human ship in Alien), they'll probably do something like have that race be in competition with the Company to acquire an alien creature (or allied with them, or whatever.) If you look at Ash's behavior from the first film, it's pretty obvious that the Company knew a FAIR amount about it, even if you ignore any AvP influence.

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post #57 of 2394 Old 06-22-2009, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

OR, the Company kept secret other contacts.


That's not the point, the point is how do you make a "first contact movie" that won't resemble the original as far it's core: Alien vs humans. We have seen that 4 times by now.

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post #58 of 2394 Old 06-22-2009, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

I think the humans having no contact would also be interesting, but only for the die hard fans as well. And it would take a hell of a script and director to make it interesting for two hours.

Agreed.

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post #59 of 2394 Old 06-22-2009, 05:53 PM
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A few obvious instances come to mind.
The alien that stowed away on Ripley's shuttle in the first film.
Rather than kill or impregnate, it retired into the duct work and basically shut-down, with the implication being it chose to escape rather than risk a fight.
The whole ship to choose from and it chose the escape pod, beating Ripley to it BTW.

The way I saw it, the Alien simply retired there because probably it was quiet due to the inactive circuits, and isolation. Having said that, how did opened the doors?
But in any way I don't think it knew that it was escape pod.


Quote:


In Aliens, the Queen tried to fool Ripley in to dropping her guard in the chamber.
Also, she communicated to the grunts to back off and let her try to deal with Ripley.

The scene in Resurrection where 3 aliens were in a "study" cell.
Two of them ganged up and killed the 3rd for the purposes of using its acid to burn a hole in the floor and escape.

There are other instances in the films where significant amounts of intelligence is displayed.
I believe the evidence, as shown so far in the series, indicates these critters are at least as smart as the chimp.

Agreed with those, I think there were definite evolutionary steps been portrayed compared to the first creature, and it has to do I'm sure with the fact they incubate in the host's body. "Resurrection" of course tempered with this further with genetic engineering that tried to combine the two species.

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post #60 of 2394 Old 06-22-2009, 06:13 PM
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I'd like to bring up a point about Aliens and it being the a great sci-fi movie that I think it is!

If you were growing up in that era and saw the movie when it first came out, you would understand. No amount of reading about it does that...you had to be there.

Nohting remotely like it had ever been seen. Tons and tons of pics in Starlog magazine showing all the scenes was nothing and I mean nothing like actually seeing it.

Movies like Superman, Close Encounters, Jaws, to name a few, tons of pics in mags. theme music from the movies on the radio, you had to be there to actually understand why this movie was so special.

I saw it in 70mm, if I remember right or a theater that showed 70mm films, and to see those chest bursting scenes...remember again, nothing like it before, just really blew you away.

The ending scene, with those flashing lights, brought back acid trips just like you had taken in years past.

Everyone today can have their opinions on what's good and bad...but Alien was good and scare for scare, nothing topped it for awhile upon its first reelase.

Not until the LD did we get to see how the Alien was made and all the neat stuff about the movie.

Looking at Geigers art book was a trip in its self. That's one scary guy with some of the scariest drawing ever.

I have the last box set on SD, but I'll wait for the reviews on the BD. I don't want to buy it and have the fiasco that is going on with the Star Trek BDs rear its ugly head.

Just on a side note, I was a fire safety officer on one day of shooting of SFX of T-2 and one of the Academy Award winners SFXers who worked on Aliens said that Aliens was one of the cheapest movies he had ever worked on.

But when you saw it up there on the silver screen in all it's glory, you thought it cost bazillions, which I'm sure was Camerons goal.

I like both Alien and Aliens for different reasons and they haven't been improved on since they first came out...IMHO

...finally retired and spending time in my HT!!!

 

My equipment consists of:

 

Epson 9500 UB Projector; 110" JKP Affinity Screen; Panasonic BD30 Player, Toshiba HDA1 Player; Definitive Speakers (Center, Towers, Rear); Onkyo 608 A/V Receiver; Nevo Q50 Remote; TW HD Cable Box. 

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