Alien Prequel - Prometheus - Page 52 - AVS Forum
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

I did not find it intellectual at all. Not a thinking man's sci-fi film in the vein of 2001, Sunshine and yes the original Alien. But a hang on for the ride, don't worry if it makes much sense, sci fi film.

I disagree that this film was not intellectual. I thought it explored some interesting questions. Some of life's biggest questions are, where do we come from? what are we here for? and where are we going? and I like that this film broached the subject. It didn't do it an incredibly innovative way or anything, but still, it was nice that it did.

Can you explain what you mean when you say that Alien is a thinking man's sci-fi though? How do you mean exactly?
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

Ridley Scott have said alot of things of this movie. I never got the impression that this would be just another scifi horror movie. And since Prometheus is so much more then just a scifi horror movie, I dont consider it a failure just because it isnt a scifi horror movie.

Sounds like you agree that it failed to have any dramatic tension involving horror elements, even though that’s what it was striving for. So what else was it striving for? Engaging characters? The only interesting character was nonhuman! An exploration of human origins? It doesn’t address the question, but merely shifts it to a different location.
I’m starting to see the standard issue “hey, turn off your brain and enjoy it on the popcorn level” defenses, and that’s not good.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

Sounds like you agree that it failed to have any dramatic tension involving horror elements, even though that’s what it was striving for. So what else was it striving for? Engaging characters? The only interesting character was nonhuman! An exploration of human origins? It doesn’t address the question, but merely shifts it to a different location.
I’m starting to see the standard issue “hey, turn off your brain and enjoy it on the popcorn level” defenses, and that’s not good.

what he was striving for...an edited quote (what did he say before or after?what was the exact context?) from a promotional video!

Shaw is an interesting character. David, of course. I found Charlize Theron good as well, her bitchy behavior changed as the movie progressed. I also consider the Enigneers as characters as well, and I'm still intrigued by them, I want to know more about them.

As for human origins, the movie doesn't "merely shifts it to a different location", it questions the existence and relevance of religion (not just christianism) and the question of "god" as invented by humans. Does it answer the question? No. Does it address it? Of course. Hopefully it will continue to explore the subject in the next movie.

Are you saying there was no dramatic tension involving horror elements in Prometheus???
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

Sounds like you agree that it failed to have any dramatic tension involving horror elements,

I posted this very early

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1155877/alien-prequel-prometheus/1020#post_22098802
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:55 AM
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I’m starting to see the standard issue “hey, turn off your brain and enjoy it on the popcorn level” defenses, and that’s not good.
I would say it's more like, "Keep your attention on the core theme and don't let the minor characters and events (filler perhaps?) derail your focus".
Daman S and adrift like this.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:07 PM
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WOW!...this topic just lost posts occurring over a 2-hr span! What's up with that???

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Old 06-19-2012, 12:09 PM
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:10 PM
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Kinda pointless to post anything, when things can so cavalierly disappear like that. frown.gif
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

I would say it's more like, "Keep your attention on the core theme and don't let the minor characters and events (filler perhaps?) derail your focus".

That's not very helpful advice when the criticism is that the entire movie lacked focus - too many themes and ideas that didn't come together, characters that didn't interact logically
with the plot, each other, the environment etc. There is only so much some people feel they can ignore.

As I've said, despite it's problems I still found Prometheus entertaining and wonderful to look at. I want to see it again in the theaters and will definitely own it on Blu-Ray. But that I found good does not mean I'm blind to the bad, and I agree that Prometheus suffers in many of the ways it's critics point out.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:47 PM
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I don't think we have seen such a wide divergence of what a movie is ABOUT in a very long time.

Many of the posts are kinda amazing, and some are puzzling.


One thing seems obvious: Prometheus is a movie that demands to be seen more than once (anxiously awaiting BD wink.gif).

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Old 06-19-2012, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky View Post

Doesn't Prometheus take place like 60 years before the timeline of the Alien movies?
Most of 'Prometheus' takes place in 2093. 'Alien' takes place 29 years later (2122) and 'Aliens' takes place 57 years after that (2179).

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Old 06-19-2012, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

There is only so much some people feel they can ignore.
I don't mean to sound clownish but I would say it's the other way around. There's only so much that people can focus at one setting. I know quite a few people who can ignore everything without breaking a sweat. wink.gif
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

One thing seems obvious: Prometheus is a movie that demands to be seen more than once
Unengaging characters behaving nonsensically, no dramatic tension or feeling of dread, pedestrian approach to the question of human origins, etc. leave essentially nothing to demand of me, regardless of what you demand.
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:18 PM
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I know quite a few people who can ignore everything without breaking a sweat. wink.gif
Very funny and true.wink.gif

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Old 06-19-2012, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

One thing seems obvious: Prometheus is a movie that demands to be seen more than once (anxiously awaiting BD wink.gif).

Absolutely. Its one of those few films I'd shell another 15+ bucks on while its still in the theaters, and I never do that.
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by adrift View Post

I disagree that this film was not intellectual. I thought it explored some interesting questions. Some of life's biggest questions are, where do we come from? what are we here for? and where are we going? and I like that this film broached the subject. It didn't do it an incredibly innovative way or anything, but still, it was nice that it did.
Can you explain what you mean when you say that Alien is a thinking man's sci-fi though? How do you mean exactly?

Alien was thought provoking, in that it did not abandon the "science" part of the term science fiction. Science and the scientific process was a huge part of Alien. You have the following parts of Alien, all dealing with "science" to some degree:
  • "distress call" which woke up everyone early on the ship;
  • complicated landing on the planet where the signal came from;
  • exploring the planet in what seemed a realistic exploring expedition,
  • finding the "space jockey" (noting that it seems to have exploded from inside);
  • finding the eggs
  • The "quarantine" issue about bringing the face hugger on-board.
  • Medically dealing with the face-hugger (the scan showing the tube down the throat; attempting to cut off a "knuckle" of the face-hugger)
  • The effect of the acid and reference to it as a "defense mechanism"
  • The life-cycle of the "Alien" creature itself, once the chest-burster happened
  • The interactions with "mother"
  • The discovery that Ash was a robot and his analysis of the crew's situation
  • The self-destruct sequence
  • Using the escape pod's rocket jets to kill the Alien

I'm sure I'm forgetting some other stuff. The science aspect of Prometheus was less involving and more superficial. It was more about showing neat stuff, than any scientific process or thinking. Sure the mapping probes were cool, the 3d map of the galaxy/universe was cool; the surgery pod was cool. But this was mostly stuff that was just shown in a gee whiz way, as opposed to a thinking part of Prometheus. Showing DNA sequences and cool futuristic stuff does not mean it is intellectual science fiction.

And as far as Prometheus "exploring" life's biggest questions -- did it really? It seemed like that issue was just a way to get the ship into space. That issue actually had very little to do with what unfolded on screen once they were there. Then it was about what is the strange stuff here and how do we deal with it.

I find Prometheus closer to Aliens (in that both were thrill-ride action movies set in a futuristic setting; as opposed to Alien which had a much harder scientific feel, wrapped in a horror film).
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

Unengaging characters behaving nonsensically, no dramatic tension or feeling of dread, pedestrian approach to the question of human origins, etc. leave essentially nothing to demand of me, regardless of what you demand.

disagree that there was no dramatic tension. this movie certainly has its flaws and i was expecting a more cohesive plot from scott, but from the ceasarion scene on i was totally riveted. i was engaged and emotionally invested in shaw's character. both noomi and fassbender provided qualtiy acting for their characters.

i would recommend this as a film everyone should see unless you are bothered by gore, horror or thriller movies.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

Alien was thought provoking, in that it did not abandon the "science" part of the term science fiction. Science and the scientific process was a huge part of Alien. You have the following parts of Alien, all dealing with "science" to some degree:
  • "distress call" which woke up everyone early on the ship;
  • complicated landing on the planet where the signal came from;
  • exploring the planet in what seemed a realistic exploring expedition,
  • finding the "space jockey" (noting that it seems to have exploded from inside);
  • finding the eggs
  • The "quarantine" issue about bringing the face hugger on-board.
  • Medically dealing with the face-hugger (the scan showing the tube down the throat; attempting to cut off a "knuckle" of the face-hugger)
  • The effect of the acid and reference to it as a "defense mechanism"
  • The life-cycle of the "Alien" creature itself, once the chest-burster happened
  • The interactions with "mother"
  • The discovery that Ash was a robot and his analysis of the crew's situation
  • The self-destruct sequence
  • Using the escape pod's rocket jets to kill the Alien
I'm sure I'm forgetting some other stuff. The science aspect of Prometheus was less involving and more superficial. It was more about showing neat stuff, than any scientific process or thinking. Sure the mapping probes were cool, the 3d map of the galaxy/universe was cool; the surgery pod was cool. But this was mostly stuff that was just shown in a gee whiz way, as opposed to a thinking part of Prometheus. Showing DNA sequences and cool futuristic stuff does not mean it is intellectual science fiction.

Hmm... I think a lot of your examples are straw grasping, and nothing exactly unique to Alien, nor a sign of intellectual sci-fi as much as it is just good writing. I'll give you the Alien life cycle concept, and maybe the defense mechanism. The rest are fairly standard sci-fi tropes. And none of these utilize the scientific method (well not beyond perhaps forming an hypothesis about the Alien's defense mechanism). I think a fairly similar list could probably be created for Prometheus, or... Independence Day for that matter.

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And as far as Prometheus "exploring" life's biggest questions -- did it really? It seemed like that issue was just a way to get the ship into space. That issue actually had very little to do with what unfolded on screen once they were there. Then it was about what is the strange stuff here and how do we deal with it.

It was the main plot point, and a recurring theme that the film both starts with and ends on.
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I find Prometheus closer to Aliens (in that both were thrill-ride action movies set in a futuristic setting; as opposed to Alien which had a much harder scientific feel, wrapped in a horror film).

Yeah, with the exception that Alien has a more scientific feel, I can see where you're coming from there. I think the scale and intended scope of Prometheus sort of puts it on its own plain in a way though.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

And as far as Prometheus "exploring" life's biggest questions -- did it really? It seemed like that issue was just a way to get the ship into space. That issue actually had very little to do with what unfolded on screen once they were there. Then it was about what is the strange stuff here and how do we deal with it.

huh...even Noomi says it, "We were so wrong!"
wink.gif



...But that's the point no? They think they're gonna find something, answers of some sorts, and unfortunately the trip doesn't go exactly as planned... Actually Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
only Shaw and her husband think they're gonna find their answers. ...As for life's biggest questions, Prometheus is only the first part.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:21 PM
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Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
only Shaw and her husband think they're gonna find their answers. ...
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Well, I'd say that Mr. Weyland probably thinks so as well (or... at least, hopes so), and I think David probably has some educated guesses too.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

huh...even Noomi says it, "We were so wrong!"

Wrong about what? That they'd be nice aliens? That they'd be happy to see us? That she wouldn't get knocked up?
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
So she's going to set sail for their homeworld on a hijacked ship after trashing their base and killing the last living one of them there (more or less) so she can explain how "It's not what you think..."? 'Cause that strategy has sure been working out well so far.
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

Unengaging characters behaving nonsensically, no dramatic tension or feeling of dread, pedestrian approach to the question of human origins, etc..
Agree about the "nonsensical" actions of most of the characters....but that's about it.
This is one of those we'll just have to agree to disagree.wink.gif

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Absolutely. Its one of those few films I'd shell another 15+ bucks on while its still in the theaters, and I never do that.
I have thought about it, but I'll wait for the BD (my local IMAX has ear-splitting volume levels mad.gif).

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Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

I find Prometheus closer to Aliens (in that both were thrill-ride action movies set in a futuristic setting.
That was my impression too.
However, Prometheus does ask bigger questions.
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Wrong about what? That they'd be nice aliens? That they'd be happy to see us? That she wouldn't get knocked up?
So she's going to set sail for their homeworld on a hijacked ship after trashing their base and killing one of them (more or less) so she can explain how "It's not what you think..."? 'Cause that strategy has sure been working out well so far.

My Noomi's quote was only a joke in response to caesar1 comment... I guess it kinda fell flat tongue.gif
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:34 PM
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Thought you guys might get a kick out of this. I haven't been reading this thread since I have not seen 'Prometheus' yet so if this has all ready been posted sorry for reposting.


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Old 06-19-2012, 06:36 PM
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Thought you guys might get a kick out of this. I haven't been reading this thread since I have not seen 'Prometheus' yet so if this has all ready been posted sorry for reposting.
Thanx, Airboss.biggrin.gif

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Old 06-19-2012, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

huh...even Noomi says it, "We were so wrong!"
wink.gif
...But that's the point no? They think they're gonna find something, answers of some sorts, and unfortunately the trip doesn't go exactly as planned... Actually Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
only Shaw and her husband think they're gonna find their answers. ...As for life's biggest questions, Prometheus is only the first part.

The plot pt was given lip service by noemi commenting. .But it was just that. Very superficial. It was all a story mechanism to have a reason for the ship to go to the planet. It was a side show once the landed.
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:08 PM
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Prometheus. they attack, hurt and kill you. Why? They're Aliens. No reason...

You must have been very frustrated when you saw Alien 1-2-3-4 then. Everything has to have a clear-cut answer?
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:47 PM
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Anybody supporting this movie in any way is disillusion...........

It appears that you didn't like the movie. I have already pre-ordered it and thus fall into the disillusioned class. rolleyes.gif
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by deimos47ca View Post

Anybody supporting this movie in any way is disillusion.

Wow. Sounds like you left the theater angry..
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
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- if theme is belief, shouldn't show alien world with aliens within first 5 min of movie. Aliens built up existence/lack of colonists for like 1hr.

As I understand it, they didn't show the alien world, they showed ours (or a facsimile). But how does that hurt the theme? The audience may have the answer, but the protagonist/s still don't. For the audience the question of "Who created us?" is simply moved back one to "Who created them?", which still leaves the question about faith and belief open. Your second sentence I don't understand.
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- if theme is religion/robot/soul, maybe should spend more than 2 lines on counter arguments.

I agree, it would have been nice if they spent more time dealing with the question, but it is a popular sci-fi film after all.
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What religion did space jockey have? What did they worship?? Themselves?

Why is that important for the audience to know right now? Isn't it more interesting to hold back some of the mystery for sequels? I think so. Maybe the giant head was an idol of some sort. Perhaps that's a hint. And the same sort of questions can be levied at the first Alien film too. Why is this alien spaceship here? How long has it been here? Who is this space jockey and where does he come from? What relationship does the space jockey have with the Alien?
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The giant head and preview trailers drew me in. I seriously thought we would learn something.. anything... about space jockeys. What was their civilization like. Were they warriors? Engineers? Colonizers?

The film led the audience to believe that the planet the protagonists landed on was a military garrison with deadly biological weapons. We also know that this planet is not the alien home planet. So, in this film we know that the aliens are some sort of warrior or military force. Is their entire species aggressive and militant? We don't know yet, but its hinted that this will be explored in greater detail in a future sequel.
Quote:
Prometheus spent most of the time showing their holographs running through tunnels. There was 1 live dude.. but obviously so grumpy from sleep he wanted to kill everything/one in sight. Why?

Because the humans are on an apparently secret military installation, and the audience is left to assume that this species (or at least this group) is very aggressive.
Quote:
If they are supreme why bother?

Maybe because big things have small beginnings. Perhaps they are afraid that humans would use their weapons against them, or perhaps we too are one of their biological weapons... weapons that use intellect and selfishness rather than claws and fang. Maybe its a territorial thing. Maybe David said something to piss the big guy off. Maybe they just like tearing things apart, and there is no rhyme or reason.
Quote:
Did Elizabeth get it right (killing everything on Earth)? How do we know he wasn't heading to bring immortality. or gift baskets?

David explained it to everyone that earth was the destination, which was reinforced by the fact that the camera focused on the hologram of our solar system and our earth. And the big guy didn't look like he was bringing cookies with him.
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Does this movie make sense on its own.

Sure it does.
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We got movie #599 about aliens, and surprise - they look like use. Another huge plot twist (sarcasm) - we're related.

It wasn't exactly a twist, especially since their appearance was hinted at in the original Alien. Were you just upset that the elephantine face was simply armor or a breathing device of some sort? Yeah, that's sort of sucky, but even with all of their gear on, they still looked more human than Alien alien. I thought they looked pretty cool honestly.
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A $200 mil budget should afford a more original script.

The Transformer and Pirates of the Caribbean films worked with a similar budget. Budget has nothing to do with a good script. But I think Prometheus' script was pretty awesome comparatively.
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Like maybe space jockeys are made of fossil/rock.. or they are robots too, and don't know their creator either.

Why? Because that hasn't been done before? Fossil/rock creatures: Apollo 18, 2001, Galaxy Quest. Alien robots that don't know their creator: Star Trek the Motion Picture, Iron Giant, the Battlestar Galactica reboot.
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The last act of the movie is worst disappointment. Lets forget about all the characters that are unaccounted for,

You mean the ones that were killed when their space ship collided with the alien's space ship?
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or all Charlie's we kill that come back to life (seriously, is a flame thrower and axe the only weapons available 100 years from now)

They were using lasers too. And the ol' "they came back to life" is a tried and true horror/sci-fi trope. I'd be shocked if he didn't come back to life after mutation.
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Lets pretend you have super-advanced tech... your whole huge ship goes down with 1 hit?

You're assuming the Engineer's race was expecting a kamakazi attack?
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Ok ok.. maybe you had it built in China.. ok back to top priority of killing Earth by going in 2nd ship...

Second ship? The Engineer only took one ship.
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er... wait... why is he chasing the puny little woman around? And how does he even know she's there.

Because she's running around outside.
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Maybe we missed some scenes. Ok anyway, so you're a tall giant super advanced dude... who doesn't need masks or anything in the high CO2 atmosphere (obviously).

I don't see how that's a problem.
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So anyway, there you are chasing this little delicious swedish treat, when she opens door revealing squidy. So you figure if you can survive giant spaceship crash, and 1000s of years, and are super strong to break down bulkheads, should be no prob...

I only saw the movie a few days ago, but if my memory is correct it wasn't like the Engineer rushed in to fight the squid. Shaw used the opportunity she had to open the bay so that the squid would attack the Engineer who was coming straight for her. The squid grabbed the Engineer before he could react.
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We're obviously ignoring what this squid thing's been eating to get to big.

That's an issue that can be levied at a number of the Alien films. For plot or pacing they grow the Aliens to an enormous size quickly. A good out in this film is that the squid was perhaps born extremely dense and over time was able to stretch itself to larger proportions, or perhaps it was able to grow through a chemical reaction on the available nitrogen and oxygen. Its a sci-fi film. Suspension of disbelief is often required.
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Well, now its too late. It's turned into a half-xenomorph...
which is so hungry it decides not to run after Elizabeth (who just a minute ago had no air)... because it would be too easy?

She had already left the planet before it burst through the Engineer.
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by deimos47ca View Post

Anybody supporting this movie in any way is disillusion.

Didn't you go to the theater to see the film thus supporting it, would that make you disillusion as well, or did you have another means of watching it and not paying ?

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