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post #2161 of 2416 Old 11-14-2012, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

Nice find. What if...
In relation to this script, IIRC RS said he wanted a more sympathetic David or something (in addition to stepping away from the Alien a bit). I like this David as a character and there would still be room for him to grow and learn to appreciate the human condition etc in the next movie if they want to make him a hero or anti hero.
The script seems a little derivatve of Alien/Aliens but the engineer concept would make it seem more original. Some of the same pitfalls in this script but the extra explanations and setups would mitigate much of that imo. Also, there is MUCH more of an element of horror in this. Coupled with better exposition and less absurd, or better explained, absurd behavior I think this would have been a better track to take. The other funny thing is I think Charlize would have been better cast as Shaw in the Spaights script as he constantly writes the character as beautiful and angelic looking etc. (although Noomi did a fantastic job as Shaw in the movie)
Funny how everyone seems to associate Lindelof with the movie script yet most of the main ideas where Spaihts?

They lifted many of the ideas and made them silly IMO. Spaihts had a decent base going. Take away some of the Creatures if needed to keep the story
away from the original as promoted/promised. His take on David was perhaps a little over the top, but much more interesting. None of the players seemed like the stupid idiots in the film. His version of Vickers is much better. Some of it made it's way into the film, and I agree Charlize could play the hell out of either role if given something to work with.

Either way, the script if enjoyable with the film's images in mind to help it along. The dialog "Your Move" at the end is perfect.
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post #2162 of 2416 Old 11-14-2012, 04:50 PM
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I was thinking someone talented and a little hotter than Sigourney Weaver. smile.gif
I did think Noomi was believable as a devout, somewhat librariany gal that is forced to stand up for herself in a physical manner.
You are comparing flight officer vs. scientist. You know, military type vs. academic type. You wouldn't want to see them looking similar, do you? That would reduce the credibility.
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post #2163 of 2416 Old 11-14-2012, 05:01 PM
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Funny how everyone seems to associate Lindelof with the movie script yet most of the main ideas where Spaihts?
Until this script went public (assuming it's legit), the general public didn't know what was Spaihts' and what was Lindlof's. Plus, whether Lindlof was to add / alter little bit or a lot of what was Spaihts' isn't revealed. It's possible that RS wanted Lindlof to steer it the way it turned out.
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post #2164 of 2416 Old 11-14-2012, 05:08 PM
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They lifted many of the ideas and made them silly IMO. Spaihts had a decent base going. Take away some of the Creatures if needed to keep the story
away from the original as promoted/promised. His take on David was perhaps a little over the top, but much more interesting. None of the players seemed like the stupid idiots in the film. His version of Vickers is much better. Some of it made it's way into the film, and I agree Charlize could play the hell out of either role if given something to work with.
Either way, the script if enjoyable with the film's images in mind to help it along. The dialog "Your Move" at the end is perfect.

Agreed. I can see Fassbender saying it now. The other one that stood out to me was Shaw (or Watts in Spaihts script) Something to the affect of "I brought it in." Raises her gun "I took it out." Very Ripley-esque biggrin.gif

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You are comparing flight officer vs. scientist. You know, military type vs. academic type. You wouldn't want to see them looking similar, do you? That would reduce the credibility.

Not at all. Both can be played by a physically atractive actress. Maybe the muscle gal from Aliens would raise a few eyebrows as an academic, but most big name actresses could pull either role.

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post #2165 of 2416 Old 11-14-2012, 05:56 PM
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Not at all. Both can be played by a physically atractive actress. Maybe the muscle gal from Aliens would raise a few eyebrows as an academic, but most big name actresses could pull either role.
If you are just talking about the face, then yeah. But as far as the overall stature goes, Sigourney Weaver is 5'-11" tall and has the look that fits the job title she had as Ripley. Noomi Rapace is 5'-4 1/2" tall and compact (but toned). There's definitely alpha vs. beta look there.
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post #2166 of 2416 Old 11-15-2012, 08:55 AM
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If you are just talking about the face, then yeah. But as far as the overall stature goes, Sigourney Weaver is 5'-11" tall and has the look that fits the job title she had as Ripley. Noomi Rapace is 5'-4 1/2" tall and compact (but toned). There's definitely alpha vs. beta look there.

I don't see much of a difference between the two - in this particular role. They are both good actresses and, facially, have more average "Librarian" features. Both were toned but Sigourney's extra height does not account for much as it was her courage and gumption that stood out in Aliens when she interacted with the "macho" soldiers and her height means nothing compared to the Alien. Noomi's lack of height is insignificant compared to the Engineers and Aliens. Key to the role is you have to be able to bring it - believably - when the crap hits the fan.

The sense I got from Spaihts script was Shaw/Watts was written as a not in your face personality - but an etheral, intellectual beauty. (I know those all don't seem to go together. smile.gif ) With the loss of Holloway she nuts up considerably to go, alone, back to the labrinth of the Pyramid knowing there are "things" there. She needed to know what happened to Holloway. I wish they would have put this in the movie as it would have added some major horror elements to the movie and character development for Shaw/Watts.

In the Spaihts abortion scene it describes the efforts to heal her and some time passes in this process and her subsequent loss of consciousness, adding much needed believability. Also, the Alien has time to consume a body, right outside the pod, and grow from this. Shaw/Watts shows her gumption to retrieve the dead soldiers gun just in time to kill the Alien she birthed and now the warrior Shaw/Watts is starting to emerge. Not just a smart, pretty academic any more but one who tells Janek "I brought it in, I took it out" while brandishing her rifle. This is a gal that means to kick butt.

Even though it was not shown as convincingly in the movie, the diminutive Noomi showed a similar resolve and growth - imo.

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post #2167 of 2416 Old 11-15-2012, 09:52 AM
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It's possible that RS wanted Lindlof to steer it the way it turned out.
No doubt.

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Originally Posted by bcruiser

It's possible that RS wanted Lindlof to steer it the way it turned out. End quote


To quote Noomi. He was wrong. He was so wrong. biggrin.gif

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No doubt.

Just reading the script one time, the main differences that Lindelof/RS made were adding Weyland into the equation, toning David down, more religous overtones, less horror/Alien suspense and technological advances being the main Weyland Co desire not immortality. Also less exposition because RS spent too much time showing Noomi's dreams and talking religion instead of adequately portraying the relevance of what was actually happening - and getting chased by Aliens. biggrin.gif


If RS just uses the Spaihts script you never know how/what makes it to screen. As an example Spaihts still has the penis snake scene, but in it the snake has not opened it's mouth yet when Fifield reaches for it. While still dumb, is not AS damning as reaching for it AFTER it has shown aggressive behavior. There are a fair amount of subtle differences between the script and what was shown directly from the script.

I still enjoy alot of what the movie represents but MOST complaints rendered would have disappeared with the Spaihts script and almost ALL of the good things would have remained. No way to really know, but I have to think it does SUBSTANTIALLY more at the box office and subsequent bluray sales would be up as well with the Spaihts script.

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post #2169 of 2416 Old 11-15-2012, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

I don't see much of a difference between the two - in this particular role. They are both good actresses and, facially, have more average "Librarian" features. Both were toned but Sigourney's extra height does not account for much as it was her courage and gumption that stood out in Aliens when she interacted with the "macho" soldiers and her height means nothing compared to the Alien. Noomi's lack of height is insignificant compared to the Engineers and Aliens. Key to the role is you have to be able to bring it - believably - when the crap hits the fan.
The sense I got from Spaihts script was Shaw/Watts was written as a not in your face personality - but an etheral, intellectual beauty. (I know those all don't seem to go together. smile.gif ) With the loss of Holloway she nuts up considerably to go, alone, back to the labrinth of the Pyramid knowing there are "things" there. She needed to know what happened to Holloway. I wish they would have put this in the movie as it would have added some major horror elements to the movie and character development for Shaw/Watts.
In the Spaihts abortion scene it describes the efforts to heal her and some time passes in this process and her subsequent loss of consciousness, adding much needed believability. Also, the Alien has time to consume a body, right outside the pod, and grow from this. Shaw/Watts shows her gumption to retrieve the dead soldiers gun just in time to kill the Alien she birthed and now the warrior Shaw/Watts is starting to emerge. Not just a smart, pretty academic any more but one who tells Janek "I brought it in, I took it out" while brandishing her rifle. This is a gal that means to kick butt.
Even though it was not shown as convincingly in the movie, the diminutive Noomi showed a similar resolve and growth - imo.
I thought we are talking about Noomi as Shaw in Prometheus, not Watts in Alien: Engineers. Shaw didn't engage in much of physical action at all except for knocking couple crew members who were about to get her off the scan table in the med room. What Ripley did in A 1 and 2 are very different. 2 different characters, 2 different looks. Works fine. Could Shaw be someone with more attractive face? Sure, but what's done wasn't so bad, IMO.
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post #2170 of 2416 Old 11-15-2012, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

If RS just uses the Spaihts script you never know how/what makes it to screen. As an example Spaihts still has the penis snake scene, but in it the snake has not opened it's mouth yet when Fifield reaches for it. While still dumb, is not AS damning as reaching for it AFTER it has shown aggressive behavior. There are a fair amount of subtle differences between the script and what was shown directly from the script.
You are comparing apple and orange (script and released movie).
Quote:
I still enjoy alot of what the movie represents but MOST complaints rendered would have disappeared with the Spaihts script and almost ALL of the good things would have remained. No way to really know, but I have to think it does SUBSTANTIALLY more at the box office and subsequent bluray sales would be up as well with the Spaihts script.
Let me just play with the rearrangement of copy & paste, "No way to really know but MOST complaints rendered would have disappeared with the Spaihts script and almost ALL of the good things would have remained." biggrin.gif
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post #2171 of 2416 Old 11-15-2012, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser
It's possible that RS wanted Lindlof to steer it the way it turned out. End quote
To quote Noomi. He was wrong. He was so wrong. biggrin.gif
Just reading the script one time, the main differences that Lindelof/RS made were adding Weyland into the equation, toning David down, more religous overtones, less horror/Alien suspense and technological advances being the main Weyland Co desire not immortality. Also less exposition because RS spent too much time showing Noomi's dreams and talking religion instead of adequately portraying the relevance of what was actually happening - and getting chased by Aliens. biggrin.gif
FWIW, I liked the religious undertones.
For me at least, it gave the movie a unique slant on the whole monster aliens stuff.

I appreciated the effort to do something different.
Of course, just another Alien movie would have been fine by me too.wink.gif

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If RS just uses the Spaihts script you never know how/what makes it to screen.
True.
RS is going to put on the screen what HE wants, not what a writer wants.

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post #2172 of 2416 Old 11-15-2012, 03:15 PM
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You are comparing apple and orange (script and released movie).

Yes, exactly. That is the fun part. smile.gif
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FWIW, I liked the religious undertones.
For me at least, it gave the movie a unique slant on the whole monster aliens stuff.
I appreciated the effort to do something different.
Of course, just another Alien movie would have been fine by me too.wink.gif
True.
RS is going to put on the screen what HE wants, not what a writer wants.

Agreed, to certain point.

I liked that RS threw a bone at what could have caused the Engineers to decide to exterminate man. The movie says they were mobilizing "about 2000" years ago. The Spaihts script says 1700 - so a little more ambiguous as to why take us out? I would gladly trade the space jesus for the rest of Spaights script though. biggrin.gif

More to your point though is how many scifi monster movies are throwing stuff like that out there? Which is why I found it odd the grief the movie got. I know this movie has gaffs but If you can show me the plethora of quality sci fi horror films released every year that try to play at this level, in addition to a superior cast and fx, I could see the critique. People talk about Moon or Sunshine etc. So, like ONE movie every other year is halfway decent. eek.gif

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post #2173 of 2416 Old 11-15-2012, 04:23 PM
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Yes, exactly. That is the fun part. smile.gif
Agreed, to certain point.
I liked that RS threw a bone at what could have caused the Engineers to decide to exterminate man. The movie says they were mobilizing "about 2000" years ago. The Spaihts script says 1700 - so a little more ambiguous as to why take us out? I would gladly trade the space jesus for the rest of Spaights script though. biggrin.gif
More to your point though is how many scifi monster movies are throwing stuff like that out there? Which is why I found it odd the grief the movie got. I know this movie has gaffs but If you can show me the plethora of quality sci fi horror films released every year that try to play at this level, in addition to a superior cast and fx, I could see the critique. People talk about Moon or Sunshine etc. So, like ONE movie every other year is halfway decent. eek.gif

watched it on bd last night for 3rd time and knowing in advance when the stupid stuff was going to happen made the movie even better.

just kind of disregarded the scenes when they take their helmets off, play with the penis monster, and bring contaminated objects on board the ship.

with those out of mind, the rest of the movie is great, enjoyed it the most of my 3 viewings this time.
funny how we can overlook the same questionable character actions in alien but they bug us so much in prometh.

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post #2174 of 2416 Old 11-15-2012, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

Yes, exactly. That is the fun part. smile.gif
. The Spaihts script says 1700 - so a little more ambiguous as to why take us out?
Has he ever indicated why he decided on 1700 years ago?
I would be curious to know.....

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More to your point though is how many scifi monster movies are throwing stuff like that out there? Which is why I found it odd the grief the movie got. I know this movie has gaffs but If you can show me the plethora of quality sci fi horror films released every year that try to play at this level, in addition to a superior cast and fx, I could see the critique. People talk about Moon or Sunshine etc. So, like ONE movie every other year is halfway decent. eek.gif
My point precisely.
We just don't get movies like this very often.
It's better than nothing (IMO).

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watched it on bd last night for 3rd time and knowing in advance when the stupid stuff was going to happen made the movie even better.
.
funny how we can overlook the same questionable character actions in alien but they bug us so much in prometh.
This movie had such sky-high EXPECTATIONS as to be nearly impossible to satisfy everyone.
Alas, just a few changes and it would have been a classic of the genre.frown.gif

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We just don't get movies like this very often.
It's better than nothing (IMO).
(

OK, I need clarification. To quote JonnyMac "You can not Be Serious"
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[quote name="oink" url="/t/1155877/alien-prequel-prometheus/2160#post_22591999"
RS is going to put on the screen what HE wants, not what a writer wants.[/quote]

Really? Not what Fox Wants? Money? Sir Ridley? Think
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Really? Not what Fox Wants? Money? Sir Ridley? Think
RS isn't some n00b studio hack who would kowtow at the expense of his vision. If RS can't make an Alien prequel or a sequel according to his vision, then no one can.


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OK, I need clarification. To quote JonnyMac "You can not Be Serious"
REAL sci-fi has become, for all intents and purposes, an endangered species.
Prometheus was an attempt (emphasis on "attempt") to be a serious piece of work.

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Really? Not what Fox Wants? Money? Sir Ridley? Think
I am sure RS is treated somewhat as Kubrick was by Fox....left alone until the final product is considered "done" by the creator.

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RS isn't some n00b studio hack who would kowtow at the expense of his vision. If RS can't make an Alien prequel or a sequel according to his vision, then no one can.
+1

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REAL sci-fi has become, for all intents and purposes
No, no, no. It's "intensive purposes". It got officially changed last night at 11:59pm due to everyone's inability to say it correctly. You see, in this country, that's how we do it. If someone doesn't want to do it the correct way, we just change it to suit them, rather than make them work harder to do it correctly. Hmmm....my coffee needs more rum.

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funny how we can overlook the same questionable character actions in alien but they bug us so much in prometh.

Because people didnt spend as much time online 30 years ago.
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Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

No, no, no. It's "intensive purposes".

I think you're thinking of "in tents and porpoises" wink.gif



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Because people didnt spend as much time online 30 years ago.

Barbarians...

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No, no, no. It's "intensive purposes". It got officially changed last night at 11:59pm due to everyone's inability to say it correctly. You see, in this country, that's how we do it. If someone doesn't want to do it the correct way, we just change it to suit them, rather than make them work harder to do it correctly. Hmmm....my coffee needs more rum.
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I think you're thinking of "in tents and porpoises" wink.gif
For some reason, that sounds a bit creepy...tongue.gif

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watched it on bd last night for 3rd time and knowing in advance when the stupid stuff was going to happen made the movie even better.
just kind of disregarded the scenes when they take their helmets off, play with the penis monster, and bring contaminated objects on board the ship.

with those out of mind, the rest of the movie is great, enjoyed it the most of my 3 viewings this time.
funny how we can overlook the same questionable character actions in alien but they bug us so much in prometh.

+1000

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Alas, just a few changes and it would have been a classic of the genre.frown.gif

It seems obvious the few fixes... (well, the handful of fixes tongue.gif )

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It seems obvious the few fixes... (well, the handful of fixes tongue.gif )
Yeah, well...definitely more than 3.biggrin.gif

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Because people didnt spend as much time online 30 years ago.


your post made me laugh on a bad day.
good one!

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post #2187 of 2416 Old 11-17-2012, 09:26 AM
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watched it on bd last night for 3rd time and knowing in advance when the stupid stuff was going to happen made the movie even better.
just kind of disregarded the scenes when they take their helmets off, play with the penis monster, and bring contaminated objects on board the ship.

with those out of mind, the rest of the movie is great, enjoyed it the most of my 3 viewings this time.
funny how we can overlook the same questionable character actions in alien but they bug us so much in prometh.

I agree with this. Not to mention watching Alien right before helped me enjoy Prometheus a lot more than my first viewing to get refreshed on that great film. I watched Alien and then Prometheus right after it last night and Prometheus worked much better after doing this for me. Even Alien has some really questionable character type moments like you mention (for example when the guy is examining the pulsing egg, then it opens and he hardly seems phased by it.......lets go in for a closer look! rolleyes.gif Is this ANY worse than the penis monster scene? Not in my opinion) which made these moments in Prometheus much easier to tolerate and much easier to overlook for me vs my first watch. All in all, I really enjoyed Prometheus last night and feel it is a very good film all things considered. Sure it has its issues still, but it worked much better for me after having refreshed myself with Alien and maybe just knowing what to expect. Not to mention the A/V is absolutely amazing! That whole ship coming out of the ground part toward the end is some amazing sound work! eek.gif

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post #2188 of 2416 Old 11-17-2012, 09:47 AM
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I watched Alien and then Prometheus right after it it worked much better for me after having refreshed myself with Alien and maybe just knowing what to expect.
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post #2189 of 2416 Old 11-17-2012, 12:47 PM
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I am sure RS is treated somewhat as Kubrick was by Fox....left alone until the final product is considered "done" by the creator.

That must be what happened. Yes, I think you have it.
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post #2190 of 2416 Old 11-18-2012, 08:50 AM
 
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Scott did something right, since this thread is still going strong!
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