Songs sound better when used in movies? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt Sullivan View Post

Ive found exactly why they sound better in films its not the equipment or anything there's nothing wrong with your cd player between NTSC and Pal well Pal as you might know plays 4or 5% faster so in theory if you took your favourite music and made it faster by about 5% ( i use final cut pro quickly and export as WAV) then you should find the favourite tracks you've heard in your favourite movies sound just as good on you iPod/iTunes or what ever player you like trust me 5% or maybe 10% not too much unless you want your tracks to be all chipmunk singles trust me 5% will soup up tracks swimmingly. I've done it just now with Doubleback ZZtop which is played at the end of Back to the Future Part 3 i was like that sounds better so i 5% it today job done

Is this a joke?

It's 4% by the way, and it's almost 1 semitone. I wouldn't even know where to start if I were to answer this.


The reason some songs "supposedly" sound "better" in movies is that they most likely REMASTER the original tracks/songs. The difference is most noticeable with older material, obviously.
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:59 PM
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Most pop/rock music has its dynamic range compressed to sound better on the radio and played back on an iPod. When filmmakers license songs to be used in their movies, they frequently get access to the original recording stems and remix them to suit the needs of the movie scene. Sometimes they're intentionally reduced in quality so as not to drown out other things going on in the scene, but other times they may be dramatically better in quality than CD copies.
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Originally Posted by thehun 
The afore mentioned Doors song would be a good candidate for this, and yes, it does sound more compressed[louder] on the movie version.

I think you need to watch some of the supplements on the Apocalypse Now Blu-ray, which talk a lot about the great care that was taken in remixing that song for the movie so that it would be the absolute best that it's ever sounded.

Yes, dynamic range compression can make things louder, but being louder does not automatically mean that the dynamic range has been compressed. Sometimes, it just means that the volume has been amplified. Expanding the dyamic range can also make things louder.

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Old 02-04-2013, 07:29 PM
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You have to keep in mind the difference between 'loudness' and 'SPL'. 'Loudness' as used in these conversations is usually a measure of compression, of the average level of the song at a given time relative to the possible peak level, and here we mean as it is represented in the delivery format (CD, DVD, etc...) All music on CDs is set up so that the highest peaks are just below 0dBFS, so they cannot be made louder (given a particular volume setting on the reproduction system) without compression. Compression brings down the peaks, so you can push the average level up without goign over the limit. But it chops off the peaks and reduces dynamic range. These days, they are almost compressed out of existence, so it's almost impossible to make them louder in that sense. Even the horrendous multiband compression used in radio can barely make a difference if it has almost no dynamic range left to begin with, and much doesn't these days.

OTOH, SPL in the room is the actual sound pressure level you hear. That is a combination of the volume setting of the playback system, and the average (media format) loudness of the music being played. Most folks listen to movies louder than they do music, it's just that movies set aside a large dynamic range above the average, to allow for music crescendos and explosions and such. So anything towards the top of the loudness range in a movie is going to be quite loud, because you have to understand the dialogue and that is typically much lower average loudness than music on a CD.

So there's lots of room in the typical movie to have the music sound quite loud in SPL terms, because it's a much higher average loudness relative to the stuff you've been listening to, the modest average loudness that makes up most of hte movie..Movie makers still understand the purpose of allowing for big cresendos, something that the music world has become too stupid to understand.

And that also brings in the ear's response as well. As music gets louder, our ears respond differently. At lower levels they hear more of the mid-range. As the SPL goes up, they hear more bass and high end, so you get a natural 'smiley face' EQ curve, that a lot of people find pleasing. So if its louder in the room in SPL terms thatn what you would normally listen to it, it will tend to sound like it has more low and high end. That's not really better, it's less articulate really since most of the detail is in the mids. But it sounds pleasant, so you may like listening to it more. The movie people may even re-EQ it a bit to give that effect, I dunno. Since our ears respond that way, we perceive something with that EQ curve to be louder than it really is. The 'loudness' buttons on boom boxes do exactly that. They put shelf EQs on the low and high end to push them up.

So, anyway, it's a complex issue, with a lot of factors involved.

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Old 02-07-2013, 04:27 PM
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Just an observation and that is that it's not always the same song/version in the movie as on the CD.
E.g. the end title song in xXx is a different mix in the movie compared to the CD.

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Old 02-07-2013, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren_G View Post

A good example is Pump up the Volume, the movie had some great stuff that either sounds totally different on the soundtrack, or they just omit good songs altogether.

If you mean the movie with Christian Slater then I think I've found most of the ones that I like and AFAIK they are the same.
The one I defintely know is not the "original" in PUTV is "Wave of Mutilation" by Pixies.
There is a version though on their "Complete B Sides" album which is the one in the movie.
One of my favourite songs smile.gif

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Old 02-08-2013, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Most pop/rock music has its dynamic range compressed to sound better on the radio and played back on an iPod. When filmmakers license songs to be used in their movies, they frequently get access to the original recording stems and remix them to suit the needs of the movie scene. Sometimes they're intentionally reduced in quality so as not to drown out other things going on in the scene, but other times they may be dramatically better in quality than CD copies.
I think you need to watch some of the supplements on the Apocalypse Now Blu-ray, which talk a lot about the great care that was taken in remixing that song for the movie so that it would be the absolute best that it's ever sounded.

Yes, dynamic range compression can make things louder, but being louder does not automatically mean that the dynamic range has been compressed. Sometimes, it just means that the volume has been amplified. Expanding the dyamic range can also make things louder.

Yes I'm aware of the care, I'm also aware that even people who care sometimes use compression. Compression itself not the enemy, but rather how much being used and to what purpose.You need to use my post in context to the now 4 year old discussion, instead of trying to ignite some technical argument out of nowhere.

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Old 09-22-2014, 02:41 PM
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hy,
i think i found a good example of what they to with the songs in the movies.

compare nina simone´s "ne me quitte pas" in the leftovers s1 e10 to the original (yes, its just youtube, but i think the quality is sufficient to make a comparison) and apocalyptica´s version of "nothing else matters" from the same episode to the youtube clip.

leftovers version of nina simone is on youtube ( i cant post links yet, id is 5oke_FIF4z8)

original from nina simone, take the version with the link id v=0Q7w7gk1JhQ

i dont know the exact technical terms, but some things i think tey did to the song are:

-put the singer in the center
-widen the stereo image
-put the overall level down
-make the instruments less loud in relation to the singing
-flatten the dynamics of the singing (i think in the leftovers nina simone´s singing level doesnt change much)
-put some lowpass @ around 14-15khz

maybe just took the wrong version from nina simone.. so i think they just turn on some dials on the cd version to make the song more consumable/pleasant - sound "photoshoping" , no master needed for this. also i doubt it would be possible to get masters of such old songs. so what do you think?
gtz

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Old 09-22-2014, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
Most pop/rock music has its dynamic range compressed to sound better on the radio and played back on an iPod. When filmmakers license songs to be used in their movies, they frequently get access to the original recording stems and remix them to suit the needs of the movie scene. Sometimes they're intentionally reduced in quality so as not to drown out other things going on in the scene, but other times they may be dramatically better in quality than CD copies.<br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>thehun</strong> <br>
The afore mentioned Doors song would be a good candidate for this, and yes, it does sound more compressed[louder] on the movie version.</div>
</div>
<br>
I think you need to watch some of the supplements on the Apocalypse Now Blu-ray, which talk a lot about the great care that was taken in remixing that song for the movie so that it would be the absolute best that it's ever sounded.<br><br>
Yes, dynamic range compression can make things louder, but being louder does not automatically mean that the dynamic range has been compressed. Sometimes, it just means that the volume has been amplified. Expanding the dyamic range can also make things louder.
Even the horrendous multiband compression used in radio can barely make a difference if it has almost no dynamic range left to begin with, and much doesn't these days.”

CD’s have a wonderful dynamic range capability on their own merit, and the music industry should not be empirically blamed for “misusing” it, although certainly some pop producers especially are known to. The notorious “loudness wars” stemmed from the “misuse” of those “horrendous” multi-band processors to eek out the last bit of “loudness” that could be crammed into the broadcast channel. The problem is not the technology however. Although an audio processor can indeed be set to make “mashed potatoes” out of the sound, it can also be set to nearly inaudibly message a large dynamic range into a medium of lesser range, or make up for some of its shortcomings. If one is used in mastering of a CD and it makes “mashed potatoes,” running it through another one during broadcast isn’t much help, even if the latter is set to carry pristine audio, as was quoted above.

Some music producers, like their radio counterparts, fell for the “competitive loudness” temptation resulting in the virtual elimination of one of music’s most important elements; dynamic range, even though a CD or DVD-A can be excellent at preserving it. A song, as an element of a movie, is normally handled much differently than if it were by itself. If a complete remix is not done to the multi-track, the original mix is “treated” to blend as intended with the other elements. Audio mixers for film also have it easier knowing the kind of environment their work will be played back in, and thus how far to “push it.” This can end up with a “more pleasing” rendition of a song that’s only available on the film soundtrack, and sadly sometimes not even carried over to the “music soundtrack” CD.
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:27 PM
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Sure, compressors don't kill people, people kill people. But, the problem is that almost everyone in the popular music business is killing people right and left and have been since the mid-90s. Now that almost everything we hear is digitally produced, which means every single track can have a compressor (or two) on it even in a low end studio, it's just gotten worse and worse. Then some buss compression, and top it off with a look-ahead software limiter that can completely remove the dynamics pretty much.

Of course there are always more 'mature' music made by folks who still understand the power of dynamics, but the bulk of popular music has been woefully over-compressed for a long time now. It's been so long in fact that an entire generation has grown up with that as the defacto standard, and they probably feel that anything not slammed to the hilt sounds weird.

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