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post #91 of 1595 Old 01-19-2011, 09:53 PM
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An interesting combination of villians.

Catwoman makes sense for this series. She's always been a good reflection of what Bruce could have been if he had chosen to use his abilities for something other than the greater good.

While not my first choice, a serious take on Bane is welcome and something I will look forward to seeing.
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post #92 of 1595 Old 01-19-2011, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

LOL - depends on which announcement you read:

Anne Hathaway cast as Catwoman in next Batman flick

http://www.stltoday.com/entertainmen...7a4a78c22.html



True

Quote:
The announcement didn't actually name Hathaway's character as Catwoman, which keeps in line with Nolan's more grounded approach to the movie series.

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post #93 of 1595 Old 01-20-2011, 05:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post

I'm sorry, but Michelle Pfeiffer is the ULTIMATE Catwoman, right down to looks and personality. Re-watching Batman Returns in HD a few days ago made me sure of this. Holy Sexiness.

I don't think she can ever be topped.

First off, comparing the old Batman films to Nolan's is an irrelevant comparison, as they have completely different moods, intentions, and personalities. Secondly, that's what everyone said about Jack's Joker... and we all know how that worked out. Thirdly, yes Holy Sexiness is right.
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post #94 of 1595 Old 01-20-2011, 07:19 AM
 
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LOL - always had a soft spot for Julie Newmar.
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post #95 of 1595 Old 01-20-2011, 07:27 AM
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With a body like Newmar’s it was difficult not to have a hard...err, soft spot for her.

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post #96 of 1595 Old 01-20-2011, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

With a body like Newmar's, it was difficult not to have a hard...err, soft spot for her.


Anne needs to hit the gym to get that kind of look. I would love to see her give her body a harder edge.

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post #97 of 1595 Old 01-20-2011, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by lwright84 View Post


First off, comparing the old Batman films to Nolan's is an irrelevant comparison, as they have completely different moods, intentions, and personalities. Secondly, that's what everyone said about Jack's Joker... and we all know how that worked out. Thirdly, yes Holy Sexiness is right.

This contradicts.

Also -- if anything, Ledger matched Nicholson.

Catwoman has to be sexy, and this chick looks too long and loose. Her legs are also far from great in the pictures above. She's already lost to Michelle before it even began.

Nolan can make mistakes Lwright.
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post #98 of 1595 Old 01-20-2011, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post

This contradicts.

Also -- if anything, Ledger matched Nicholson.

Catwoman has to be sexy, and this chick looks too long and loose. Her legs are also far from great in the pictures above. She's already lost to Michelle before it even began.

Nolan can make mistakes Lwright.

Not that Nolan - or any filmmaker - will ever be "perfect", but lwright is correct in his comment on the tonal differences btwn the Burton/Schumaker Bat flicks & Nolan's take, IMO. The latter is about as based in the "real world" as a movie based on an iconic super hero can be - and certainly draws it's tonal inspiration-at least within the Batman universe - from something closer to Frank Miller's Dark Knight.

Burton took a much more fantasitcal angle - a mix of camp & creepy (something Burton does in basically every film - his trademark).

Schumaker followed by taking the camp aspect much closer to Adam West/Burt Ward level (and tossed in a little homoeroticism, depending on how you look @ it).

I'd say the 80s/90s Bat flicks & the 21st century Nolan version are VERY different, despite drawing from the same original well.

As to Joker - I agree that Jack was great. But he was, to me at least, still "Jack", but stuffed in Caeser Romero's old TV costume. Not saying he sucked - quite the opposite. But it still felt like that caricature of Nicholson that even Nicholson himself can be guitly of falling back on occasionally (not so much lately, though)

Ledger, OTOH, never once during Dark Knight ever felt like I was watching the guy from Brokeback Mountain or The Patriot (or if you could say Ledger even had an easily identifiable "thing" about him like Jack does). He really disappeared into the role & gave us a far more creepy/scary Joker than we had yet seen on a movie screen. A Joker more akin to the one found in latter day comics/graphic novels - hell, even the animated Joker Mark Hamill voiced for years.

Catwoman? No doubt Pfeiffer was great - and way hot - as Catwoman. That said, Hathaway is a pretty solid actress. And not exactly hard to look at. Recall how many doubters popped out of the woodwork when it was announced Ledger was taking on Joker.....and then remember the result. I do not think that every future thing Nolan does will be automatically "perfect", but I have no doubts that we'll soon think he made the right choice with this one. Besides, wasn't Anne announced to simply be playing "Selena Kyle"? I smell a Nolan twist on "Catwoman" coming. Probably no alleyway resurrections via feral cats this time, eh?

"Bottom line, she tries to blackmail me, I'll drop her out a higher window."

I'dd add that Tom Hardy as Bane has me WAY more intrigued.

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post #99 of 1595 Old 01-20-2011, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ratpacker View Post

She's definitely hot, but strikes me as kind of lightweight and dim. That's just my opinion, but who knows? She could be reading over the script at a mensa meeting right now. I just hope it's not Katie Holmes all over again. She almost ruins BB for me.

A couple of weeks ago Anne was on Fresh Air for an interview. I was impressed by her diction, vocabulary, and intelligent comments. Much better than most of the NPR folks, actually, since they are nauseatingly and constantly equivocating using "kinda" and "sorta" before nearly every statement! Anne strikes me as one of the sharper tools in the shed as far as Hollywood actresses are concerned, and I think she will be able to pull off the role as directed.

But definitely agreed she is hot!
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post #100 of 1595 Old 01-20-2011, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonLoaf View Post

A couple of weeks ago Anne was on Fresh Air for an interview. I was impressed by her diction, vocabulary, and intelligent comments. Much better than most of the NPR folks, actually, since they are nauseatingly and constantly equivocating using "kinda" and "sorta" before nearly every statement! Anne strikes me as one of the sharper tools in the shed as far as Hollywood actresses are concerned, and I think she will be able to pull off the role as directed.

But definitely agreed she is hot!

Concur - every interview I have seen with her - be it a late night talk show or otherwise - Hathaway strikes me as having been one of the smart girls in class, esp when compared to many other actresses in her age group.

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post #101 of 1595 Old 01-20-2011, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post
This contradicts.

Also -- if anything, Ledger matched Nicholson.

Catwoman has to be sexy, and this chick looks too long and loose. Her legs are also far from great in the pictures above. She's already lost to Michelle before it even began.
Sorry but I need to intervene ...what's wrong with her legs?


I think I will be forever in love with Michelle Pfeiffer, catwoman or not, but something tells me Anne Hathaway may surprise us.
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post #102 of 1595 Old 01-20-2011, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

Sorry but I need to intervene ...what's wrong with her legs?


I think I will be forever in love with Michelle Pfeiffer, catwoman or not, but something tells me Anne Hathaway may surprise us.

Same as is wrong w/ the rest of Anne.....NOTHING!!!!

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post #103 of 1595 Old 01-23-2011, 05:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post

Also -- if anything, Ledger matched Nicholson.

Two different performances. Nicholson's was "the life of the party" while Ledger was "a psycotic killer."

IMO, Ledger did a MUCH better job at portraying The Joker, his essence, his mindset and his emotions.

But then again, that is the difference between Burton and Nolan when it comes to the story telling of Batman and his environment.
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post #104 of 1595 Old 01-23-2011, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Two different performances. Nicholson's was "the life of the party" while Ledger was "a psycotic killer."

IMO, Ledger did a MUCH better job at portraying The Joker, his essence, his mindset and his emotions.

But then again, that is the difference between Burton and Nolan when it comes to the story telling of Batman and his environment.

Burton was channeling the Adam West TV series of the 1960's.
Nolan was channeling the "graphic novel" content of more recent times.

It's really that simple.

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post #105 of 1595 Old 01-24-2011, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post


IMO, Ledger did a MUCH better job at portraying The Joker, his essence, his mindset and his emotions.

I agree.

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post #106 of 1595 Old 01-24-2011, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post
Burton was channeling the Adam West TV series of the 1960's.
Nolan was channeling the "graphic novel" content of more recent times.

It's really that simple.
I think you forget what a revelation Burton's Batman was considered when it was released. Everyone expected something really cornball and campy like the old TV series. What he delivered instead was a mix of his own sensibilities (which are, yes, a little cornball and campy) blended with some of the darker edge from Frank Miller's "Dark Knight Returns". (Burton's Batman actually kills people.) The movie totally reinvented Batman for that generation. It was a massive, massive hit and cultural phenomenon.

When we look back at it now in comparison to Nolan's films, it certainly has a lighter, sillier tone. That's because the movie is as much about Tim Burton as it is about Batman. I don't consider this a bad thing. It's just a different approach to the material.

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post #107 of 1595 Old 01-24-2011, 02:43 PM
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I think you forget what a revelation Burton's Batman was considered when it was released. Everyone expected something really cornball and campy like the old TV series. What he delivered instead was a mix of his own sensibilities (which are, yes, a little cornball and campy) blended with some of the darker edge from Frank Miller's "Dark Knight Returns". (Burton's Batman actually kills people.) The movie totally reinvented Batman for that generation. It was a massive, massive hit and cultural phenomenon.

When we look back at it now in comparison to Nolan's films, it certainly has a lighter, sillier tone. That's because the movie is as much about Tim Burton as it is about Batman. I don't consider this a bad thing. It's just a different approach to the material.

I agree...Burton's isn't entirely campy.
As you point out, his film, when released, was considered "dark."
Or at least much darker than expected.
However, when it's contrasted with Nolan's....

Although I don't subscribe to the opinion, I have read many posts wherein the newer films's fans consider Burton's too campy (or whatever), they can't stand Nicholson, etc....

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post #108 of 1595 Old 01-24-2011, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I think you forget what a revelation Burton's Batman was considered when it was released. Everyone expected something really cornball and campy like the old TV series. What he delivered instead was a mix of his own sensibilities (which are, yes, a little cornball and campy) blended with some of the darker edge from Frank Miller's "Dark Knight Returns". (Burton's Batman actually kills people.) The movie totally reinvented Batman for that generation. It was a massive, massive hit and cultural phenomenon.

When we look back at it now in comparison to Nolan's films, it certainly has a lighter, sillier tone. That's because the movie is as much about Tim Burton as it is about Batman. I don't consider this a bad thing. It's just a different approach to the material.

Totally agreed, and I think you are spot on. Burton's "Batman" is a classic — it finally turned Batman into a dark and adult film that can be taken seriously for the first time. People who dislike Burton's "Batman" are largely ignoring history.

Nice thing about Burton's "Batman," is that it doesn't have an hour of an origins story either: it dives right into what people would expect — a solid superhero movie with a cool villain. What a nice rounded little movie, with an awesome Elfman score, too.

"Batman Returns" holds the same level of professional and production quality — it just turns more into a dark fantasy tale, which is a different approach in itself and it still remains very entertaining and superb, while being even more imaginative. However, like always, you cannot please everyone, and you are going to have complainers. You'll never be able to convince me that "Batman Returns" isn't a solid sequel either, although it does come with a few minor problems that hardly detract, much like how the other Batman movies have minor flaws as well.

Nolan's approach is different, nor better, nor worse. Just as Ledger's joker is different, nor better, nor worse. Both have brought different elements to their roles, and surpassed expectations. There was lots of hype around Ledger's Joker — didn't you think there was lots of hype around Nicholson's character as well (people seem to forget history)? The best Batman films are both Burton and Nolan films. Glad to own all four of them, and they are all amazing in their own ways.

Plus, I mean, Michael Keaton. What a bad-ass Batman. Not to undermine Christian Bale's solid performance, but Keaton actually brought a new character to the role, and totally blew everyone's expectations away (people have written hate mail to WB before the film was released, demanding that they remove Michael Keaton) coming from his "Mr. Mom" role. When they finally saw the movie, they shut themselves up and largely apologized for being douche bags. Bale on the underhand, just brought his Patrick Bateman character to the role as Bruce Wayne — which works, but hardly matches the sophistication of Keaton's Wayne (which is the way Wayne should be and not a hungover playboy). But, like a solid quarterback that "gets the job done," Bale does great. Michael Keaton will always have the slight edge for me (despite his height which just makes him more unique).

Too many people undermine Burton's Batman movies, and it's becoming pathetic. It comes down to Burton's grounding his version in a dark fantasy world, showcasing true imagination, and Nolan's movies being more grounded in reality, abiding by more laws. Claiming which is better is a moot point, because they are all four enjoyable in their own rights, and are professional quality films that are made correctly.

Everything else is preference.

Just like my preference that Michelle Pfeiffer is much hotter, more firm, and more resembling of Catwoman than that soft-looking and linky chick. We'll see how she performs though, but Pfeiffer, like Keaton, will always hold a permanent spot in my heart. I also am quite humored, how I mentioned that she was soft, and someone had to post another picture of her "proving" me wrong. Well, how about this:\\

http://www.wildsound-filmmaking-feed...y_swimsuit.jpg

Sorry, but I never thought she was attractive, nor even physically that hot. Whether it was in "Alice in Wonderland" or "Get Smart," I've never really cared much for her looks. Individual differences though.
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post #109 of 1595 Old 01-24-2011, 03:16 PM
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Keaton gave a slightly "crazy" vibe to Bruce Wayne, something that up until that point, had not been explored on screen.

"You wanna get nuts?!? Let's GET NUTS!!!"

And as I mentioned in another post, while Burton's films do have his own sense of dark "camp", that series did not devolve into Adam West-level campiness (in a bad way), IMO, until Joel Schumaker took over the franchise.

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post #110 of 1595 Old 01-24-2011, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

Keaton gave a slightly "crazy" vibe to Bruce Wayne, something that up until that point, had not been explored on screen.

"You wanna get nuts?!? Let's GET NUTS!!!"

And as I mentioned in another post, while Burton's films do have his own sense of dark "camp", that series did not devolve into Adam West-level campiness (in a bad way), IMO, until Joel Schumaker took over the franchise.

Agreed.

When people think of the Burton films there is a tendency to link them with Schumacher's and that's a shame.

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post #111 of 1595 Old 01-24-2011, 04:23 PM
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Sorry, but I never thought she was attractive, nor even physically that hot. Whether it was in "Alice in Wonderland" or "Get Smart," I've never really cared much for her looks. Individual differences though.

To be honest she's not really my type either, but I do think she has a fine body, and her legs are more than fine. dammit!

...What is true to Burton/Keaton/Nicholson and Nolan/Bale/Ledger should be applied to Pfeiffer and Hathaway: I think Nolan's take on the Catwoman character will certainly be a different approach than Burton's was. Besides, considering the movie hasn't even started filming, I'll just wait before making comparisons, if any. Michelle Pfeiffer was (and still is) one of the most beautiful women in the world, and a more than capable actress who brought her own charm, wit and class to that character. But I don't see why Hathaway shouldn't do fine either. Just like Ledger's Joker blew everyone away, maybe her Catwoman won't be too disappointing either. I think Nolan kinda knows how to bring the best out of his actors (but yes Ledger built his Joker mostly himself I suppose).
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post #112 of 1595 Old 01-24-2011, 06:43 PM
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The one thing that I hope Nolan and Bale will change for this film would be the over done gravel in Batman's voice. It wasn't bad in BB, but went a bit over the top for TDK.

Kevin Conroy has proven that the effect can work extremely well when done correctly, so they just need to tone it down a notch.
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post #113 of 1595 Old 01-24-2011, 06:59 PM
 
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There was way too much forced humor in the Burton movies. Nolan, IMO took a much more serious view to the characters and the story telling.
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post #114 of 1595 Old 01-24-2011, 07:56 PM
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Tim Burton is a film maker with a unique vision. He definitely has a style. A style you're either in tune with or you're not. For my taste, his vision and style often overwhelm his material in that it becomes less about the actual plot and more about Burton's quirkiness and campy eye-candy. For my taste, he ranges from barely tolerable (Beetlejuice) to unbearable (E.Scissorhands, AiW). Batman is a franchise that needs a strong visionary at the helm, but one who puts the character first without having every frame scream "CAN YOU TELL I DIRECTED THIS!" When I think of Batman '89 and Batman Returns I think of Tim Burton's heavy hand. When I think of Batman Begins and TDK, I think "kick-ass superhero movies".
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post #115 of 1595 Old 01-24-2011, 08:22 PM
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Nice post ratpacker. However, the same could be argued with Nolan's movies (only the ones that I've actually seen) in that they have too much of Nolan's dramatic narrative and drawn out exposition style, being that every scene is very dramatic (sometimes feeling like a lifetime drama) and several of his movies that I have seen (Batman Begins, Dark Knight, and Inception) are nearly identical to each-other at face-value and try to be overly professional for a fantasy-based movie, and at times lacking as much fun as they could have been. They even have similar Zimmer scores (much how Burton used Elfman scores). Not that any of this is a "bad" thing, but the point being is that legendary directors will have consistent unique style in every one of their movies, and what you're doing isn't fair. While part of this is playing Devil's Advocate, I'd even go as far to say that Nolan's movies I don't find very rewatchable. I've only seen my copy of The Dark Knight and Batman Begins twice each, mainly because they both give me similar experiences and are very long in length, something that I'm not ready to come back to in a long good while after I've visited. Not that it makes them any less "better," but that's just my personal opinion.

I think it's pretty ridiculous to talk about a legendary director, in that he has too much of his own style, being that he is actually able to transport you in a different reality (Nolan's reality is too similar to our own, and doesn't feel like a new world — because that's not solely his intentions). Like I've said before, this doesn't mean better or worse, it's just all based on preference. Do you want fantasy, or do you want reality? Personally, I watch movies many times to escape reality and see something new, in which Burton does far greater than Nolan, arguably. The problem with movies today, is that they are missing style. John Carpenter has a unique professional style that I love. Burton has a dark fantasy style that I like (not liking the exposition at times), Nolan has a very professional style (not liking the dramatic exposition at times), Cameron has a certain robust style, Richard Donner has a similar conservative and professional style like Carpenter, Hitchcock has the same motif style in every movie (nothing wrong with this now is there?), Scott has a style, and the same could be said about any other influential directors. Directors should maintain their strong styling in every one of their movies — nothing wrong with a trademark.

What's wrong with Beetlejuice or Edward Scissorhands? Those are lovely films man. Nothing amazing, no, but they are nice little works of art both musically and visually, and tell great tales. Big Fish is Burton's best movie IMO, and it's easily better than 90% of all movies ever made.

btw — Burton is not even on my "Top 10 Directors List," but by god, he has unique style that should be admired and not insulted. So to comeback at what you said to make a counterpoint, when I think of Nolan's Batman movies, I think of Nolan's heavy hand in overly dramatic exposition, exact same conservative but yet professional and very realistic styling, and low replay value due to the insane lengths.

Incase if anyone didn't know, superhero movies are fantasy, too.
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post #116 of 1595 Old 01-24-2011, 08:57 PM
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I actually think the '89 batman is the best. BB and TDK are good. But think Batman was the best. I loved the way nicholson portrayed the joker.

My opinion only.

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Originally Posted by antwon412 View Post
I actually think the '89 batman is the best. BB and TDK are good. But think Batman was the best. I loved the way nicholson portrayed the joker.

My opinion only.
I was there on opening day and one thing I was let down by was Nicholson's Joker. For me, it didn't come close to the more evil, sinister, and psychotic character in the comic books from the 70s on. Ledger was much more accurate (but still tamer than the R-Rated comic book version).
What many forget in judging the films is how many interpretations of Batman there were! One might consider Burton's BATMAN as close to his initial late-1930s incarnation. Nolan's is more YEAR ONE/DARK KNIGHT RETURNS. BATMAN FOREVER is closer to the 1950s BATMAN. And B&R the 60s camp version. All are valid (even the rancid Schumacher films, the likes of which I hope we never see again). Once Nolan is finished, we are sure to see a different adaptation of the character from a different director (I vote for Alex Proyas!) And sadly, someone will bring Robin into the mix, at which point I will be done with any filmed versions. (Sorry...the side-kick just never works, in any comic-book or filmed incarnartion)

I love the Nolan films, but I also loved the more Gothic Burton versions (the production design of which won the Oscar, remember.)
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post #118 of 1595 Old 01-25-2011, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ratpacker View Post
For my taste, he ranges from barely tolerable (Beetlejuice) to unbearable (E.Scissorhands, AiW)
Oh my....


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Batman is a franchise that needs a strong visionary at the helm, but one who puts the character first without having every frame scream "CAN YOU TELL I DIRECTED THIS!"
It's a good thing Nolan demonstrated his light touch with Inception...

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post #119 of 1595 Old 01-25-2011, 04:26 AM
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MEOW.

never take life seriously
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post #120 of 1595 Old 01-25-2011, 05:55 AM
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Okay- I knew I would probably catch a little hell for my take on Tim Burton. It's not that I don't like some of his movies, I do. But you're either a fan of his peculiar vision or you're not. That said, I think Ed Wood is one of the best movies of the 90's and I adore Pee Wee's Big Adventure. But there lies my problem with his Batman movies- they feel like they take place in "Batmans Playhouse." And I never said Nolan had a light touch, but c'mon- it's like comparing Federico Fellini to John Ford. Burton is mostly a teller of quirky fairy tales. And his Batman occupies a world of claustrophobic artifice. "Batman in Gothamland" to me. Nolan's Batman seems to occupy a real world while still maintaining the fantasy element inherent in superhero movies but still making it feel somewhat realistic. For me, Burton's movies are true to Burton's idea of Batman, and Nolan's are true to the devotes of Batmans idea of Batman. I hope that makes sense.

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