Another nail in the coffin for film - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 172 Old 01-12-2011, 01:37 PM
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A couple years ago I downloaded the Genesis manual which made an interesting read.
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post #92 of 172 Old 01-13-2011, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

Both those films were shot with the Thompson Viper camera, which I have never heard of. It was also used on Collateral, which I thought looked lousy. Go figure.

Collateral and Miami Vice look like they do because Michael Mann wanted to shoot them both at night in only natural light. He also isn't particularly interested in mimicking the film look when shooting video. His philosophy is that film and video are different things, and he's not afraid to let video look like video.

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post #93 of 172 Old 01-14-2011, 01:32 PM
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so is it primarily hard drives in these digital movie cameras or are people still using P2, SxS cards and PD (old blu-ray type) disk, or tape like broadcast tv stations were trying out a few years ago?
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post #94 of 172 Old 01-14-2011, 03:31 PM
 
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JVC shows off a 4K camcorder at CES

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/camcorders/j...york-50002164/
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post #95 of 172 Old 01-14-2011, 03:54 PM
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Just shot a short film on a Canon 7D and loved some of the results. Was horrified but some. But this was a short film and I was trying to shoot on a low low budget.

It cannot touch 16mm, which is how I shot my first short film back in 2001 (Super16 to 35mm blowup to be exact).

Yesterday I watched a working cut of a film hitting festivals later this year. Shot on a RED MX, it looked quite nice, but felt a little off. Kind of video-ish. I was not aware of what it was shot on when I sat down and asked while it was playing. To me, film looks better, but the RED MX is certainly viable for lower budget productions.

They had a choice... RED MX or Super16 and went with the RED because the financial people felt "Digital is cool." The costs were pretty much the same because of how much work is needed with digital in post. 16mm is cheap when you go straight to a scan and DI. Ten years ago that was impossible.

In the past three months the best looking short film I have seen was shot on 16mm. The others, ranging from 3CCD HDcams to DSLR's couldn't approach film. They all looked like HD VIDEO. Not film.

That being said, none would have looked good at all had they been shot on MiniDV or BetaSP so the HD revolution is certainly a good thing in some ways. I know that it allowed me to shoot a short last week for just a grand.

But, then again... We have to re-shoot some of it because of the inherent artifacts in DSLR cameras and that will cost me another grand. ****!!!!

In February I am shooting two short films... On Super8. Yes, Super 8mm. One is a huge production that will end up with a dramatic piece around 15 minutes in length and it will be shot on Super8 (exteriors, which are all flashback) and possibly some form of HD Cam for the interiors. If we can swing 16mm for the interiors we will.

Don't tell me Super 8mm cannot look awesome. It can with modern digital scanning of your developed negative and a DP who chooses to actually focus properly. No way it won't look grainy, of course, but for the right project, it is an amazing artistic choice.

Check this out...

http://vimeo.com/14317782

Don't tell me that isn't amazing and fun to watch. Super 8mm cameras can be found for under a hundred dollars in excellent shape. 50' foot rolls are $13 to $20 depending on stock and processing is about $15. Scanning is anywhere from $5 to $25 on average, unless you scan 2k at some places in Hollywood that charge laughably high prices (that's you, Pro8mm).

Film IS on its way out and I think Super8 will be dead in about five years, but the small little comeback it is going through at the moment should be fun while it lasts (a number of Hollywood celebrities have been spotted with Super8 camera in hand on vacation or at sporting events).

Hell, I am talking with some people about doing an entire feature on it. We just have to find the right story to make it work. It would be insane to actually do it. Very few actually ever have.

Oh yes... the comeback of TECHNISCOPE is amazing. Some are shooting on it because it is cheaper than going digital. A number of films have been shot 2 perf 35mm in the last year, so much so that the demand is three times the availability o cameras.

I love love love Techniscope, which you all know as being the format used to shoot THX1138 and the Sergio Leone Westerns, among many other features. With modern DI's you don't suffer as much with the blowup and that was obvious when I saw ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST from a restored print in NYC last month. That was mind blowing.

The HD transfer is an abomination. It's been scrubbed and cleaned to the point where it no longer looks anything like the negatives. I am praying that the eventual Blu-Ray release will not look like the 1080i transfer I watched. There is always hope.

Vimeo is the home of the Super8 Shooter...
http://vimeo.com/super8shooter
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post #96 of 172 Old 01-14-2011, 07:49 PM
 
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^^^^^^^^

LOL - of course you can love Techiscope. Look at the size of the screens that movies are being shown on today, versus their sizes back in the 1960s and 1970s when it was considered an inferior method of getting a 2.35 AR image up on the screen.

Visually, it's still an inferior 35mm film process when compared to Anamorphic or VistaVision.

So is this the new meme? To be able to brag that a production is shot on 35mm film . . . by using the cheapest film process ever designed?
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post #97 of 172 Old 01-14-2011, 08:18 PM
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Techniscope of today, thanks to DI, is superior in every way to Techniscope of the 60's and 70's. No one outside of the industry can tell the difference between 2 perf and 3 perf 35mm being shown in theaters right now. Costs need to be contained and Techniscope allows a director to shoot on film as opposed to digital. I'm all for it based upon the three films I have seen that were shot with it in the last 12 months.

Vimeo is the home of the Super8 Shooter...
http://vimeo.com/super8shooter
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post #98 of 172 Old 01-14-2011, 09:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Techniscope of today, thanks to DI, is superior in every way to Techniscope of the 60's and 70's. No one outside of the industry can tell the difference between 2 perf and 3 perf 35mm being shown in theaters right now. Costs need to be contained and Techniscope allows a director to shoot on film as opposed to digital. I'm all for it based upon the three films I have seen that were shot with it in the last 12 months.

Is it superior to "Filmed in Panavision/Cinemascope?"

That fact that the industry has lowered it's standards so that Super 35 has become a frequently used film format, and now the rebirth of 2 perf Techniscope just shows that the PQ of 35mm film is definitely on the "endangered species" list when it comes to widescreen movies.



BTW:

How to Make Your Video Look Like Film

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post #99 of 172 Old 01-14-2011, 09:36 PM
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Canon has an interesting new camcorder for only 2 grand. Might be good for pro quality home video.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consum...amcorders/xa10 - Canon XA10

I saw a Steven Soderberg film shot on a Red One camera and thought it looked like crap. The movie was crap anyway.
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post #100 of 172 Old 01-15-2011, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Is it superior to "Filmed in Panavision/Cinemascope?"

That is not what I said. Techniscope of right now looks substantially better than Techniscope of yesteryear. Of course it cannot look better than standard Panavision. The reason for this is the DI process.

Please do not misquote me.

Vimeo is the home of the Super8 Shooter...
http://vimeo.com/super8shooter
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post #101 of 172 Old 01-15-2011, 11:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

That is not what I said. Techniscope of right now looks substantially better than Techniscope of yesteryear. Of course it cannot look better than standard Panavision. The reason for this is the DI process.

Please do not misquote me.

I wasn't misquoting you. I was asking you question. A valid one.

Sorry Matt, I just can't get excited about an inferior method of delivering 2.40 AR movies. Especially when it's only saving grace is saving money on the production.

I see it as a step down from Super 35 which means we are going in the wrong direction - IMO.
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post #102 of 172 Old 01-15-2011, 10:54 PM
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another alternative to big screen is shoot 16mm anamoprhic/cinemascope
go for simple regular blow-up to 35mm, get 35mm anamorphic/cinemascope
print for theatrical release,no DI, save cost on DI, save on Negetive cost,
the advantage of FILM-LOOK, no digital/artificial look.
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post #103 of 172 Old 01-16-2011, 12:37 PM
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I'll take Techniscope over digital any day of the week. Comparing it to 35mm formats 2 perf is nearly indistinguishable from 3 perf today in the mass market. Nobody here, outside of a select few people, could tell the difference.

Are we going backwards? yes, in a way we are. But I'll take a backwards step in order to avoid stepping over a cliff that is Digital.

Last night I watched a feature shot on the T2i. Color was very nice, but it looked like video. This was a nearly finished cut, viewed in HD. The entire time I was thinking about how cool it would have been had they shot it on 16mm or even Super8 with a widened gate.

Vimeo is the home of the Super8 Shooter...
http://vimeo.com/super8shooter
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post #104 of 172 Old 01-16-2011, 02:43 PM
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Maybe I was not noticing as much as before, but it seems that Super8 is being used in music videos. Has that always been the case? I recall early ones actually using 1" video tape, than mostly larger format films.

What I do like about Super8 is that the cameras are so compact and the film is so easy to load.
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post #105 of 172 Old 01-16-2011, 05:35 PM
 
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HD vs Film - Will the Future be All Digital?

Quote:


HD offers several distinct advantages over film during shooting, such as immediate playback and monitoring of your finished image. LUT's* are used to define different looks for the film or the final look of the film print and output that look onto a high-definition display. LUT's can be saved for future film projects or episodes should you want to replicate a similar look. Camera settings can also be saved for future projects so that you can match a particular look exactly (very handy for TV series production). HD monitoring allows you to catch things and make corrections on the fly, while you are in the moment. HD cameras excel over 35mm at locations where you have mixed light sources and don't have the luxury of setting up your own controlled lighting. HD cameras can white balance, film cannot. HD also excels over film in the effects world, where it is possible to view green and blue screen composites on the set, fine-tune alignments in real-time, and give the director a close representation of the finished product.

http://searchwarp.com/swa527483-hd-v...ll-digital.htm

*LUTs = Look Up Tables

http://documentation.apple.com/en/co...3%26tasks=true
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post #106 of 172 Old 01-17-2011, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkmedia2 View Post
Maybe I was not noticing as much as before, but it seems that Super8 is being used in music videos. Has that always been the case? I recall early ones actually using 1" video tape, than mostly larger format films.

What I do like about Super8 is that the cameras are so compact and the film is so easy to load.
Many are widening the gate and re-centering the lens on certain Super 8 cameras so that they can get a wider aspect ratio. It's around 1.5:1 or 1.55:1 or thereabouts. That way when you scan at 2k you can extract 1.78:1 and only lose a small portion of the negative.

So much of the music world had been using HD of late that Super 8 has suddenly been brought back as an artistic choice.

Vimeo is the home of the Super8 Shooter...
http://vimeo.com/super8shooter
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post #107 of 172 Old 01-18-2011, 10:51 PM
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Just out of curiosity Matt, how do you plan on dealing with sound andsync on the Super 8 portions? As the current films do not have a mag track that some find useful. But I guess sound is not that important for all projects. Even when it was available (with my limited experience) I hardly ever use the recorded sound that was on Super 8 and mostly replaced all the sound anyway.
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post #108 of 172 Old 01-22-2011, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkmedia2 View Post

I never actually researched parts availability but I do have a pair of simplex xl as mention in the article is the very common. But I also have an old Century with an upgraded sound head not sure the model. I've always bought used parts anyway. But I guess it don't really apply all that much to me as I dont use them that often.

gonna use the projectors for Christmas for sure.

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post #109 of 172 Old 04-14-2011, 01:32 PM
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Interesting new digital camera news from the NAB Show

http://twit.tv/specials72

Starting at 24:45 they talk about the new F65 digital camera from Sony.

Some highlights:

8k sensor down sampled to 4K to reduce the noise
16 bit color depth
14 F-stops of usable range
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post #110 of 172 Old 04-15-2011, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

35mm film is still the most common projection by far

Are you sure? I'm not even sure if I can even think of a theater within miles of me that is still projecting film. Maybe some of the second run or a few mom and pop 2 screeners here and there?
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post #111 of 172 Old 04-16-2011, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkmedia2 View Post
Just out of curiosity Matt, how do you plan on dealing with sound andsync on the Super 8 portions? As the current films do not have a mag track that some find useful. But I guess sound is not that important for all projects. Even when it was available (with my limited experience) I hardly ever use the recorded sound that was on Super 8 and mostly replaced all the sound anyway.
A crystal sync motor can be added to many of the better Super 8 cameras. I have a Nikon R10, but have yet to make the effort to do something that so far has not been needed. All of my Super8 projects have been more cerebral. No need for sync sound. Yet.

I'm shooting next weekend and it will be 24fps, MOS, with the final product having narration by the characters.

Vimeo is the home of the Super8 Shooter...
http://vimeo.com/super8shooter
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post #112 of 172 Old 04-16-2011, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

Tony, the film stuff is all History now, anyway. (Or will be in a very short time.) But it's still fascinating to recall how many people used to be involved in generating Hollywood magic. Back when we got maybe four big-budget movies a year and TV consisted of CBS/NBC/ABC, most productions were worth watching at least once.

Nowadays with video technology, we have hundreds of TV channels (many in dazzling HD) and multiple movie releases in a week, and much more time goes by without me actually wanting to seek out a "special" movie or TV show for viewing. Meanwhile there are TV series where I never watch a single episode, knowing from the commercials that they are for a different demographic than a 50-something white male.

I don't think I'm all that much more selective than I used to be. I think there is a lot more dreck being made that is not worth my time, because of that overproduction capacity I mentioned several times. But at least I can make use of online resources like AVS to help me sort out the gems from the dreck, without soiling my hands.

I think the late 90s through 00's had a lot better TV on average than the 70s and 80s.
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post #113 of 172 Old 04-16-2011, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Just shot a short film on a Canon 7D and loved some of the results. Was horrified but some. But this was a short film and I was trying to shoot on a low low budget.

The next round of Canon DSLR will likely feature vastly better video quality since the new Digic V is rumored to be fast enough to properly filter and scale down from the entire sensor to 1080p so it should have radically less moire/aliasing/detail flicker and less noise and better resolution.
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post #114 of 172 Old 04-11-2012, 09:16 AM
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Apologies for the ancient thread revival. But I thought that those of you who remain fans of the now-entirely-gone Kodachrome film, would enjoy seeing a few perfectly exposed Kodachrome stills from 1940-1943:

http://pavel-kosenko.livejournal.com/303194.html

....there is an alive quality to these images that belies the 70 years that have passed since they were exposed.

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post #115 of 172 Old 04-11-2012, 10:22 AM
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Great pics! Both quality and subject matter.

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
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post #116 of 172 Old 04-11-2012, 12:34 PM
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Stunning images Gary, thanx for finding that link. Loved the technical quality (lighting, composition, etc), but even moreso the subject matter.

Sanjay
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post #117 of 172 Old 04-11-2012, 12:41 PM
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So what are the prospects that digital photo files will last as long as those superb Kodachrome shots?
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post #118 of 172 Old 04-11-2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Great pics! Both quality and subject matter.

larry

Make sure you also go to http://www.shorpy.com/image/tid/179, more pics!

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
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post #119 of 172 Old 04-11-2012, 01:13 PM
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I've always favored film over digital when it comes to ultimate quality, but I have to say that the BRs of Game of Thrones (shot on an Arri Alexa) look utterly, spectacularly gorgeous. Everything about the cinematography- lighting, contrast, textures, details, shadow detail, etc. looks wonderful. My understanding is that the Alexa uses a 3.5k sensor with very dynamic range, and was designed with the goal of yielding images that look like 35mm film. Of course, I was watching a downres to 108op on a 65" plasma, but it does make me curious how it would look on a full size movie screen at full resolution.

Since digital is constantly improving and getting cheaper, what I like to speculate is that maybe in the not too distant future, digital cameras and theatrical projectors will be able to match the resolution of 70 mm film without the cost disadvantages. One can dream...
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post #120 of 172 Old 04-11-2012, 01:45 PM
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Amazing photos. But they really make me miss the lack of exif data. It'd be fascinating to see the camera models, lenses and settings for all those photos.
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