Classical Music (not film scores) Discussion - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 196 Old 05-28-2011, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

I can't answer that without bringing up issues that I'd rather not bring up in this thread.

But if you believe the Hillary and Jackie movie, Jackie was essentially a nympho, so at the least, there would have been that 'attraction'.

Never got around to that movie....

Reading her biography makes me wonder if there wasn't some serious bi-polar going on....

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post #92 of 196 Old 05-28-2011, 07:12 AM
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Got up early today and decided to pop on my second guilty classical pleasure outside of Brahms and listened to Bela Bartok's "Divertimento For String Orchestra." If you like Mozart, you might get a kick out of this because it was Mozart that lifted the divertimento to a high art form.

What floors me is that it took him just 15 days to compose it. Remember that the next time Lady GagMe does her attention whore thing about slaving to her muse (oops - did I just let my feelings about her slip out?)

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post #93 of 196 Old 05-28-2011, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by smudge981 View Post

Got up early today and decided to pop on my second guilty classical pleasure outside of Brahms and listened to Bela Bartok's "Divertimento For String Orchestra." If you like Mozart, you might get a kick out of this because it was Mozart that lifted the divertimento to a high art form.

I have the performances of Bartok's 6 string quartets, which the Emerson String Quartet recorded in the '80s. The Emerson Quartet's recording won the 1989 Grammy Awards for both Best Chamber Music Performance and Best Classical Album. What beautiful, haunting music! I also have the Emerson's album of the Shostakovich String Quartets. What can I say? I like to wallow in Eastern European angst from time to time.
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post #94 of 196 Old 05-28-2011, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

seems like "classical" rhymes with "relaxing" lately, how about some action

Agreed. I can't say I'm in that camp that equates the two, and hardly ever look to classical music to relax to. Of course, my appreciation for classical music was rekindled by my love for for the Star Wars soundtracks (out of bounds for discussion in this thread, but only listed for reference).

I'm much more inclinded to listen to rousing and/or brooding pieces. Here's a list of favorites, skipping over the more obvoius, such as Wagner or Holst:

Bloch - Schelomo
Debussy - LaMer
Franck - The Accursed Huntsman
Hanson - Lament for Beowulf
Janacek - Sinfonietta
Respighi - Belkis, Queen of Sheba
Shostokovich - Symphony #7 'Leningrad'

Some of these were discovered through the great syndicated program "Adventures in Good Music" by the late Karl Haas. It was a fantastic show for those of us general folk, who had an appreciation for classic music, but little formal eduction in it.

Scott

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post #95 of 196 Old 05-28-2011, 02:16 PM
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Here's a topic I've been fascinated with for a while:

What's a minimum list of classical pieces that every person should know so that they don't appear shockingly ignorant if it happens to come up in a conversation?

I'm not talking about "I'm mildly surprised you don't know that", I mean a jaw-dropping, "Holy cr*p!, how can you have spent over two decades on this planet and at least 17 years in schools and never have heard XXX?"

I'm thinking the following qualify (in no particular order):

Bach - Toccata and Fugue
Beethoven - 5th and 9th
Wagner - Die Walkure
Prokofiev - Peter and the Wolf
Rossini - William Tell Overture
Tchaikovsky - 1812 Overture, Swan Lake and The Nutcracker
Copland - Fanfare for the Common Man
Handel - Messiah
Stravinsky - The Firebird
Bizet - Carmen (I might be reaching a bit on this one but it's played for spanish dance sequence ever staged, how can you possibly have avoided hearing it?)
Mozart - ????

I seem to have no perspective as to what people should know when it comes to Mozart. The best I can come up with is The Magic Flute.

A few examples of things I think might fall just below the cut (IOW just mildly surprised if someone hadn't heard them):

Vivaldi - The Four Seasons
Pachebel - Canon
Handel - Water Music

So what have I missed or screwed up?
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post #96 of 196 Old 05-28-2011, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post
Here's a topic I've been fascinated with for a while:

What's a minimum list of classical pieces that every person should know so that they don't appear shockingly ignorant if it happens to come up in a conversation?

I'm not talking about "I'm mildly surprised you don't know that", I mean a jaw-dropping, "Holy cr*p!, how can you have spent over two decades on this planet and at least 17 years in schools and never have heard XXX?"

I'm thinking the following qualify (in no particular order):

Bach - Toccata and Fugue
Beethoven - 5th and 9th
Wagner - Die Walkure
Prokofiev - Peter and the Wolf
Rossini - William Tell Overture
Tchaikovsky - 1812 Overture, Swan Lake and The Nutcracker
Copland - Fanfare for the Common Man
Handel - Messiah
Stravinsky - The Firebird
Now that's weird! I listened to my recordings of Bach's Tacatta and Fugue in D minor for organ and Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture and Nutcracker today. Then I came here and saw your post, and the Twilight Zone theme started playing in my head.
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post #97 of 196 Old 05-28-2011, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

So what have I missed or screwed up?
I don't have the courage to try a list like that.
That is a very tough assignment IMO.

How about for Mozart: Figaro or Eine kleine Nachtmusik?

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post #98 of 196 Old 05-28-2011, 08:59 PM
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Mussorgsky - Night on Bald Mountain ?
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post #99 of 196 Old 05-29-2011, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

I don't have the courage to try a list like that.
That is a very tough assignment IMO.

Agreed. My tastes range from Bach to Charles Wourinen.

My advice is to purchase those classical box sets that go on sale every blue moon (like Amazon.) That way you can sample different styles and time periods. When a particular artist trips the proverbial trigger, you can do a little deeper digging and purchase individual works.

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post #100 of 196 Old 05-29-2011, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

I'm not talking about "I'm mildly surprised you don't know that", I mean a jaw-dropping, "Holy cr*p!, how can you have spent over two decades on this planet and at least 17 years in schools and never have heard XXX?"

[...]

Mozart - ????

I seem to have no perspective as to what people should know when it comes to Mozart. The best I can come up with is The Magic Flute.

Holy cr*p!, how can you have spent over two decades on this planet and at least 17 years in schools and never have heard of these:

- 40th symphony, and 41th, and 25th...
- Requiem K.626
- Mass in C minor K.427
- Piano Concertos no.20,21,23.
- Clarinet concerto K.622.
- Piano sonata #8. K.310.
- Don Giovanni.


Vivaldi:
L'estro armonico op.3
mandolin concertos
Flute concertos
Gloria rv.589
Magnificat rv.610/610a (and later revised as rv.611 - he added more parts to 610/610a - one of the best interpretations ever of rv.611 is Ricardo Muti's, not on period instruments but imo the best of all)

...There are many more and of course many many other composers but I have to think about it a little.
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post #101 of 196 Old 05-29-2011, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Shaffer View Post

Mussorgsky - Night on Bald Mountain ?

Yeah, that would probably qualify.
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post #102 of 196 Old 05-29-2011, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

I don't have the courage to try a list like that.
That is a very tough assignment IMO.

How about for Mozart: Figaro or Eine kleine Nachtmusik?

Yeah, actually I think it would be easier for people with less exposure to classical music than the posters in this thread to come up with a list.

I guess you feel the way about the list in general as I do about Mozart. I've just been exposed to too much of it to be able to draw the line between what I think the average joe six pack should have heard and what wouldn't surprise me if he hadn't heard it.

But Figaro, that's been so heavily used in everything I think you might have hit on the winner. It'd be pretty unusual for someone to never have heard that.
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post #103 of 196 Old 05-29-2011, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

Holy cr*p!, how can you have spent over two decades on this planet and at least 17 years in schools and never have heard of these:

- 40th symphony, and 41th, and 25th...
- Requiem K.626
- Mass in C minor K.427
- Piano Concertos no.20,21,23.
- Clarinet concerto K.622.
- Piano sonata #8. K.310.
- Don Giovanni.


Vivaldi:
L'estro armonico op.3
mandolin concertos
Flute concertos
Gloria rv.589
Magnificat rv.610/610a (and later revised as rv.611 - he added more parts to 610/610a - one of the best interpretations ever of rv.611 is Ricardo Muti's, not on period instruments but imo the best of all)

...There are many more and of course many many other composers but I have to think about it a little.

Oh, I've heard all the Mozart before, so many times that I no longer have a good handle on what other people are likely to have heard or not heard. But I think Oink convinced me that Figaro is the Mozart piece that I'd be shocked if someone hadn't heard it. I don't think I'd be surprised if someone hadn't heard Requiem or Don Giovanni, but all the Piano Concertos and Symphonies is where I just can't decide one way or the other.

AFA, Vivaldi is concerned, I've tended to avoid him because what I've heard never really worked for me. I really should take the time to
cover some more of his stuff.
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post #104 of 196 Old 05-29-2011, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by smudge981 View Post

Agreed. My tastes range from Bach to Charles Wourinen.

My advice is to purchase those classical box sets that go on sale every blue moon (like Amazon.) That way you can sample different styles and time periods. When a particular artist trips the proverbial trigger, you can do a little deeper digging and purchase individual works.

I think you missed the point. It not a question of taste or recommendations.

The question basically boils down to which classical pieces have been so heavily covered in such a wide range of media that it would be highly unusual for someone to have avoided hearing it.

So, for example, Die Walkure, which I never want to hear again and frankly wouldn't recommend to anyone, still made my list because it's been so heavily covered in everything from Bugs Bunny cartoons to major motion pictures that I'd be stunned if an adult said they'd never heard it.
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post #105 of 196 Old 05-29-2011, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

I think you missed the point. It not a question of taste or recommendations.

The question basically boils down to which classical pieces have been so heavily covered in such a wide range of media that it would be highly unusual for someone to have avoided hearing it.

So, for example, Die Walkure, which I never want to hear again and frankly wouldn't recommend to anyone, still made my list because it's been so heavily covered in everything from Bugs Bunny cartoons to major motion pictures that I'd be stunned if an adult said they'd never heard it.

*hee hee* That's what I get for answering a question before having my first cup of coffee.

Rossini's "William Tell Overture" to be sure.

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post #106 of 196 Old 05-29-2011, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by smudge981 View Post

*hee hee* That's what I get for answering a question before having my first cup of coffee.

Rossini's "William Tell Overture" to be sure.

LOL, who was that masked man?

Bobby 

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post #107 of 196 Old 05-30-2011, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

Oh, I've heard all the Mozart before, so many times that I no longer have a good handle on what other people are likely to have heard or not heard.

Exactly.
I too no longer have a good idea what the "everyman" has heard concerning Mozart.
The big problem is there is so MUCH good music to choose from and the name "Mozart" (even if it isn't understood) has been heard by every person on the planet by this point in time.


Quote:


Vivaldi is concerned, I've tended to avoid him because what I've heard never really worked for me. I really should take the time to
cover some more of his stuff.

Everyone talks about the Four Seasons, but try the double trumpet concerto....it's terrific.

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post #108 of 196 Old 05-30-2011, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by smudge981 View Post
If you're a fan of Khachaturian, you might also want to check out his 1940 Violin Concerto. I don't have the recording but I do have Jean-Pierre Rampal's Concerto For Flute and Orchestra which is Khachaturian's concerto transcribed for flute. Khachaturian gave Rampal permission to do so. There are a couple of places where Rampal had to alter some notes because it went down below the flute's range.
Thanks, I will check it out.

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post #109 of 196 Old 05-30-2011, 02:05 PM
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Thanks, I will check it out.
Since you are on-line right now....
I listened to some of your fellow Hun, Franz Liszt, the other day.
Some piano transcriptions of Wagner, Mozart, Schubert.
Great Stuff.

Liszt might have liked Mozart a bit....

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post #110 of 196 Old 05-30-2011, 02:17 PM
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The most well known piece by Mozart to the general audiences is no doubt the Eine Kleine Nachtmusic, it is also among the first piece youngsters learn to play, on a violin.
With Mussorgsky I would go with "Pictures at an exhibition".[Orchestration by Ravel]
For Beethoven it's :Fur Elise"
For Rachmaninoff it would be the : Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini[last movement] and thanks for the movie "Shine" the "Rach 3" as well.

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post #111 of 196 Old 05-30-2011, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by thehun View Post
The most well known piece by Mozart to the general audiences is no doubt the Eine Kleine Nachtmusic, it is also among the first piece youngsters learn to play, on a violin.
With Mussorgsky I would go with "Pictures at an exhibition".[Orchestration by Ravel]
For Beethoven it's :Fur Elise"
For Rachmaninoff it would be the : Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini[last movement] and thanks for the movie "Shine" the "Rach 3" as well.
Little room for argument there...
Although I might opt for the 9th Symph. for B.

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post #112 of 196 Old 05-30-2011, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post
Since you are on-line right now....
I listened to some of your fellow Hun, Franz Liszt, the other day.
Some piano transcriptions of Wagner, Mozart, Schubert.
Great Stuff.

Liszt might have liked Mozart a bit....
Liszt never learned to speak our language, although he considered himself to be a Magyar, but since he wasn't in literature art, this isn't a big deal but still a curiosity to some i'm sure. Nonetheless he is considered as one us. He actually really praised Wagner's music from early on, and Wagner's fame was hugely benefited from that as well Later in life he became Liszt's son in law.

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post #113 of 196 Old 05-30-2011, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post
Little room for argument there...
Although I might opt for the 9th Symph. for B.
Of course there is, but general audiences will remember to simpler pieces more easy then complex works like a symphony. If I use my own example, I certainly heard "Fur Elise" before the 9th. or even the 5th which has that grand catchy opening.

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post #114 of 196 Old 05-30-2011, 03:33 PM
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Liszt never learned to speak our language, although he considered himself to be a Magyar, but since he wasn't in literature art, this isn't a big deal but still a curiosity to some i'm sure. Nonetheless he is considered as one us.
Hmmm, didn't know he couldn't speak the language.
Why is that?
IIRC, he was born of some blue-bloodedness?

Quote:
He actually really praised Wagner's music from early on, and Wagner's fame was hugely benefited from that as well Later in life he became Liszt's son in law.
Yeah, after Wagner ripped-off another guy's wife.

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post #115 of 196 Old 05-30-2011, 09:34 PM
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Hmmm, didn't know he couldn't speak the language.
Why is that?
IIRC, he was born of some blue-bloodedness?


He found it too difficult, even though his father [Adam] was fluent. No he didn't born into nobility,but his family was " well connected" with the higher ups.

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post #116 of 196 Old 05-30-2011, 09:48 PM
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Of course there is, but general audiences will remember to simpler pieces more easy then complex works like a symphony. If I use my own example, I certainly heard "Fur Elise" before the 9th. or even the 5th which has that grand catchy opening.

Oh yeah, that's the spirit. I thought that my picks of the 5th and 9th were among the least controversial on my list. But I must admit that's some darn good reasoning for Fur Elise.

This is a very interesting case since although I'd expect almost everyone to have heard Fur Elise I wonder how many would actually know it by name or even know it was Beethoven? OTOH, due to it being covered by ELO and used in commercials, etc, etc, I'd actually expect more people to know the 5th Symphony by name and composer.

This is the fun part of the list, the more you think about it the harder it gets.
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post #117 of 196 Old 05-30-2011, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by smudge981 View Post

*hee hee* That's what I get for answering a question before having my first cup of coffee.

Rossini's "William Tell Overture" to be sure.

Yeah I think I once heard that the WTO was the most heavily used piece of music (not just classical music) in film, TV and commercials.
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post #118 of 196 Old 05-31-2011, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

What's a minimum list of classical pieces that every person should know so that they don't appear shockingly ignorant if it happens to come up in a conversation?

I'm thinking the following qualify (in no particular order):

Bach - Toccata and Fugue
Beethoven - 5th and 9th
Wagner - Die Walkure
Prokofiev - Peter and the Wolf
Rossini - William Tell Overture
Tchaikovsky - 1812 Overture, Swan Lake and The Nutcracker
Copland - Fanfare for the Common Man
Handel - Messiah
Stravinsky - The Firebird
Bizet - Carmen (I might be reaching a bit on this one but it's played for spanish dance sequence ever staged, how can you possibly have avoided hearing it?)
Mozart - ????

I seem to have no perspective as to what people should know when it comes to Mozart. The best I can come up with is The Magic Flute.

A few examples of things I think might fall just below the cut (IOW just mildly surprised if someone hadn't heard them):

Vivaldi - The Four Seasons
Pachebel - Canon
Handel - Water Music

So what have I missed or screwed up?

Thought about this. You might want to add Ponchielli's "Dance of the Hours" from the opera "La Gioconda", The "Prelude/Morning Mood" from Grieg's "Peer Gynt Suite", and who can forget "Bolero" from Ravel?

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post #119 of 196 Old 05-31-2011, 10:59 AM
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and who can forget "Bolero" from Ravel?

Ouch!

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post #120 of 196 Old 05-31-2011, 12:13 PM
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Just catching up after the Holiday here....

Smudge just beat me to Bolero.

Anyone mention the Moonlight Sonata?

And I'd add -
Debussy - Prelude to the Afternoon of a Fawn (Bambi Meets Godzilla, anyone?).
I'd throw in Copland's Rodeo (Meat. It's what's for dinner!)
The Barber of Seville (anyone who's watched the Bugs Bunny Classic should know this one)

I guess I'm saying anything that's been heard a million time on TV, used in Movies, etc.

Tom Logan
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