Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 46 Old 07-03-2011, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Uh, wow. Period suspense thriller starring Gary Oldman, Colin Firth, Tom Hardy, Mark Strong, John Hurt, Benedict Cumberbatch, Stephen Graham, Toby Jones, and Ciarán Hinds. It is also directed by Tomas Alfredson, the Swedish guy who directed the original "Let The Right One In"... this is his first film since.

In the bleak days of the Cold War, espionage veteran George Smiley is forced from semi-retirement to uncover a Soviet agent within MI6's echelons.

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post #2 of 46 Old 07-03-2011, 06:47 PM
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Can't complain about the cast. This is the director's first English speaking film? Should be interesting.
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post #3 of 46 Old 07-04-2011, 11:11 AM
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I'll be there for this one. I have read everything John Le Carre has written and have the DVDs of the 1979 British miniseries, starring Alec Guiness as George Smiley. Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy is a great story and I think the casting of Gary Oldman as Smiley is promising. The rest of the cast looks great, too. It includes Colin Firth, Mark Strong, and Ciarán Hinds. That's a formidable lineup, it seems to me.
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post #4 of 46 Old 09-06-2011, 10:29 PM
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Review starts to come in, looking good so far, 6/6 on rotten tomatoes.

Quote:


It is one of the few films so visually absorbing, felicitous shot after shot, that its emotional coldness is noticed only at the end, when all the plot twists are unraveled in a solid piece of thinking-man's entertainment for upmarket thriller audiences.

Deborah Young

Hollywood Reporter

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A superb adaptation of John le Carré's brilliant, intricate Cold War spy novel, the film is a triumph.

David Gritten

Daily Telegraph


I want my grain region free.
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post #5 of 46 Old 09-07-2011, 05:53 AM
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Yep, will definately go as see this one.
Too bad it looks like it won't open until 25:th of December here in Sweden (if IMDB is correct).

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post #6 of 46 Old 09-07-2011, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post
Review starts to come in, looking good so far, 6/6 on rotten tomatoes.
There are now 8 reviews posted on Rotten Tomatoes and all are still "Fresh." Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy is to be released in the US on December 9 and I plan to be there. George Smiley is one of my all time favorite literary characters. I have read all of Le Carre's books that feature him, most more than once.
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post #7 of 46 Old 09-07-2011, 12:28 PM
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Great Trailer!
Music is pitch perfect.

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post #8 of 46 Old 12-12-2011, 07:44 AM
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Watched my DVDs of the 1979 BBC miniseries of Tinker, Tailor over the weekend and was blown away, again. Rewatching this great old miniseries made me worry about the movie, though. The DVDs take nearly 6 hours to tell a very complex tale, so I wonder whether the new film can tell the story adequately in a little over 2. Unfortunately, the film has not opened in OKC so there's no telling when I will have an opportunity to see it.

A UK BD edition is being issued next month but I assume it will be region locked and so not viewable by those of us in the US who lack region free BD players. Alas, I don't have one.
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post #9 of 46 Old 12-16-2011, 04:59 AM
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Gary Oldman was discussing this movie with Tavis Smiley, and they said you must pay attention all the time - it demands something of you.

You can watch the interview here.
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post #10 of 46 Old 01-11-2012, 07:15 PM
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I just finished the BBC series from 79 in 4x3 format. It does require full attention at all times. W/o cc and the British accent, I needed to rewatch couple scenes due to volume fluctuation. Sir Alec Guiness is wonderful to watch. Couple of the characters were not as developed, but then I did not read the book.

Hard to see how one can squeeze 6 hours into 2, but my daughter loved the movie. I could wait till the DVD comes out.
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post #11 of 46 Old 01-15-2012, 01:18 PM
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A snooozer...

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post #12 of 46 Old 01-15-2012, 07:45 PM
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As I posted to the other Tinker, Tailor thread, I saw the movie and loved it. I'm not sure I'm an objective observer, though. John Le Carre's George Smiley is one of my all time favorite literary characters and I thought Gary Oldman's performance as Smiley was just about perfect. As much as I loved the BBC miniseries of Tinker, Tailor, starring Alec Guinness, I thought the film was its equal. I was also gratified that the 127 minute film managed to tell the story as clearly as it did. Highly recommended! 10 Stars out of 10.
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post #13 of 46 Old 01-16-2012, 04:35 AM
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I thought the movie was very good but I would probably not have seen it at the cinema if I knew how slow it was.
I don't mind slow movies but then I prefer to see them at home, curl up on the sofa with a nice coffee/wine/pick-your-poison

Will get this on BD later, I bet there was a bunch of details that I missed at the cinema.
I really liked the ending, I'm pretty sure I got the reason for what happened at the end, it was subtle and no one tried to explain it in the movie.

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post #14 of 46 Old 01-16-2012, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik View Post

I really liked the ending, I'm pretty sure I got the reason for what happened at the end, it was subtle and no one tried to explain it in the movie.

Here's why I think the event at the end of the film happened:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Although Jim Prideaux thought Bill Haydon was his closest friend, Smiley's exposure of Haydon as Karla's mole showed Prideaux that Haydon had betrayed him to the Russians and thereby almost got him killed. Because of all Prideaux had gone through because of Haydon's betrayal, Prideaux exacted revenge by assassinating Haydon with a sniper rifle.

Haydon was an all round bad guy, to say the least. In addition to his betrayal of Prideaux, Control, and the Circus generally, Haydon also seduced Smiley's wife, Ann, in order to better keep tabs on Smiley. Haydon was a treacherous fellow, indeed.
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post #15 of 46 Old 01-16-2012, 09:27 AM
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I could be completely off here but I interpreted the ending as:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
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Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Just before the assasination there was another party-scene where both Mark/Prideaux and Haydon/Firth shared a long look between them. I thought that look was more like a look between lovers rather than friends but I could be off here
What I base that on is the return of Mark as was earlier discussed in the movie as a favour to Haydon. There was no real reason for the russians to return Mark and I wonder if Mark would have kept his mouth shut unless they were something more than "just" friends. Since Mark must have known who the leak was long before the end since he only told Haydon where he was going in the beginning. A friend who betrays you is no longer a friend but someone you love....then it start to get complicated.
The assisination itself could be for two reasons, that he wants to get even for the betrayal or out of mercy.
Based on my interpretation above I rather think he did it out of mercy, to avoid the questioning, as a member of the circus he probably knew what the questioning would entail.
Haydon seduced Smiley's wife because Karla thought that Smiley was the one they had to look out for, if they could disrupt his watchfulness by making trouble in his private life. They would potentially move the focus for Smiley to just see a hated rival rather than a potential spy.
As far as I can remember, Haydon even said that himself in a round about way.


Anyway that is my take on it, haven't read the novel so I'm not sure if there are more explanations but I really like endings that could be interpreted in several ways.
Gets the discussion going

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post #16 of 46 Old 01-16-2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik View Post

I could be completely off here but I interpreted the ending as:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Just before the assasination there was another party-scene where both Mark/Prideaux and Haydon/Firth shared a long look between them. I thought that look was more like a look between lovers rather than friends but I could be off here
What I base that on is the return of Mark as was earlier discussed in the movie as a favour to Haydon. There was no real reason for the russians to return Mark and I wonder if Mark would have kept his mouth shut unless they were something more than "just" friends. Since Mark must have known who the leak was long before the end since he only told Haydon where he was going in the beginning. A friend who betrays you is no longer a friend but someone you love....then it start to get complicated.
The assisination itself could be for two reasons, that he wants to get even for the betrayal or out of mercy.
Based on my interpretation above I rather think he did it out of mercy, to avoid the questioning, as a member of the circus he probably knew what the questioning would entail.
Haydon seduced Smiley's wife because Karla thought that Smiley was the one they had to look out for, if they could disrupt his watchfulness by making trouble in his private life. They would potentially move the focus for Smiley to just see a hated rival rather than a potential spy.
As far as I can remember, Haydon even said that himself in a round about way.


Anyway that is my take on it, haven't read the novel so I'm not sure if there are more explanations but I really like endings that could be interpreted in several ways.
Gets the discussion going

With a couple of exceptions, I agree with your analysis.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
We agree that Haydon targeted Smiley's wife because of the detrimental effect it might have on the brilliant Smiley's ability to identify Haydon as Karla's mole. I also agree that Haydon was bothered enough by his betrayal of Prideaux to use his influence with Karla to get Prideaux repatriated.

I confess that I have never inferred from Le Carre's novel or either film the existence of a sexual component in Haydon and Prideaux's relationship. In fact Haydon has always struck me as ragingly heterosexual. Maybe I'm just naive but I didn't see any such indication.

Prideaux had been so badly injured, both physically and psychologically, during his captivity he could no longer function in the field and had been reduced to being a teacher and coach at a second rate prep school. I thought that was plenty of motivation for Haydon to do the right thing (for a change) and convince Karla to return Prideaux.
I plan to reread the book soon and if I see anything to change my mind on this score, I'll report it.
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post #17 of 46 Old 01-16-2012, 01:59 PM
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Please do, I might even buy the book but I've got enough books to read at the moment

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post #18 of 46 Old 01-20-2012, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik View Post

Please do, I might even buy the book but I've got enough books to read at the moment

Just finished rereading Le Carre's 1974 novel upon which this film was based. For reasons that I will place within spoiler tags, I compliment you for seeing something in the film, which fits perfectly with Le Carre's novel but which I missed.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Le Carre makes clear that Bill Haydon had a reputation for being as attracted to men, and vice versa, as he was to women. Le Carre also hints that Jim Prideaux and Haydon may have been lovers as well as friends. Interestingly, the novel implies but does not actually say that it was Prideaux who killed Haydon at Sarratt but does not specify whether death was caused by a broken neck, as was depicted in the 1979 miniseries, or by gunshot, as depicted in the 2011 film.
In both the miniseries and the film, the extent of Prideaux's post repatriation disability is underplayed. In the book, though, Prideaux has a frozen right shoulder and his wounds are still discharging. In short Le Carre describes a far more profoundly disabled man than either film shows.


Anyway, Le Carre's Tinker, Tailor is a great, great book. Highly recommended! In fact I so enjoyed rereading it that I have now started to reread the second book in The Karla Trilogy, The Honourable Schoolboy (1977) and plan to finish up the Trilogy by rereading the last book in the set, Smiley's People (1979).
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post #19 of 46 Old 04-12-2012, 07:57 PM
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Now that I have seen both versions, the remake was very efficiently done, though some of the transitions/edits were not smooth.

Fredrick made a great observation but I am not sure if that was shown in the tv series about Jim and Bill.

BTW, the pq was horrible for the regular DVD.

Next is the book.
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post #20 of 46 Old 04-13-2012, 01:00 AM
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Cool, forgot about this thread but it's interesting that I wasn't totaly off there

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post #21 of 46 Old 04-13-2012, 02:42 AM
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I saw the dvd with about 6 people. Everyone said it was boring and hard to follow. They said it was one of the worst films this year.
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post #22 of 46 Old 04-13-2012, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Kensmith48 View Post

I saw the dvd with about 6 people. Everyone said it was boring and hard to follow. They said it was one of the worst films this year.

Thats why Transformers makes the big bucks.

I want my grain region free.
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post #23 of 46 Old 04-13-2012, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonbud0 View Post

Now that I have seen both versions, the remake was very efficiently done, though some of the transitions/edits were not smooth.

Fredrick made a great observation but I am not sure if that was shown in the tv series about Jim and Bill.

BTW, the pq was horrible for the regular DVD.

Next is the book.

The British miniseries' awful PQ notwithstanding, I loved it. Smiley's people, also staring Alec Guinness as George Smiley is great, too.

I just reread all three books in the Karla Trilogy, Tinker, Tailor; The Honourable Schoolboy; and Smiley's people. They are dark and complex but they are richly rewarding, too. There was never a spy as intriguing as sad, withdrawn, and brilliant George Smiley.
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post #24 of 46 Old 04-13-2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

Thats why Transformers makes the big bucks.

That's a very pretentious comment.
I had to review this on blu ray and I was really looking forward to a thought provoking and deep film. Instead, I got underdeveloped characters, constant staring contests and a lack of energy from the entire production. I didn't expect any action, incase anyone thinks that's my problem. I expected a cohesive story with characters I could care for. Personally, the ending was of no consequence and I thought everything seemed contrived. I know the novel is highly regarded, and people that I know who have read it enjoyed the movie. I personally would never sit through it again.

I also don't understand all the praise Gary Oldman has received. Is that the new standard. A stone-faced performance for the duration of the film? I thought Brad Pitt's performance in Moneyball was superior as was the the film. Both are slow, actionless films, and I couldn't care less about baseball, but Moneyball brought me into it's world far more effectively than Tinker Tailer Soldier Spy.

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post #25 of 46 Old 04-13-2012, 10:13 AM
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TTSS was a slow boring movie to anyone who knew nothing about Smiley & the novels .
I liked the movie but I can see why alot of people thought is was a complete bore , I'm glad I rented it ..

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post #26 of 46 Old 04-13-2012, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post

That's a very pretentious comment.

I was aiming for an ambiguous comment.

Just by looking at boxoffice we can clearly see that more people prefer a movie like Transformers, so its no surprise that a movie like TTSS doesnt appeal everyone or even the majority of people. I didnt say that it were something wrong anyones taste or that TTSS is a good movie. Its just that a movie like TTSS isnt something you would sit down with bunch of friends and watch on a Friday night.

I want my grain region free.
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post #27 of 46 Old 04-14-2012, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

I was aiming for an ambiguous comment.

Just by looking at boxoffice we can clearly see that more people prefer a movie like Transformers, so its no surprise that a movie like TTSS doesnt appeal everyone or even the majority of people. I didnt say that it were something wrong anyones taste or that TTSS is a good movie. Its just that a movie like TTSS isnt something you would sit down with bunch of friends and watch on a Friday night.

My apologies. I just hear so many people these days putting others down for their taste in movies. Really bothers me.

David Budo
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post #28 of 46 Old 04-14-2012, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post

I just hear so many people these days putting others down for their taste in movies. Really bothers me.

that trend is sneaking its way into another forum, whose name I will omit...makes for a funny read at times though

Me, I like both Transformers and TTSS, so I'm covered!

Seriously though, one of the things I like in a movie like TTSS is the 'old-school-slow-paced spy movie' kind of vibe. It's indeed not a movie I would rewatch everyday, but I enjoyed it a lot.
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post #29 of 46 Old 04-14-2012, 08:38 AM
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Is this movie anything (pace-wise, though provoking) like The Man from Earth, which I really liked and sparked some interesting debate here at AVS?
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post #30 of 46 Old 04-22-2012, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

The British miniseries' awful PQ notwithstanding, I loved it. Smiley's people, also staring Alec Guinness as George Smiley is great, too.

I just reread all three books in the Karla Trilogy, Tinker, Tailor; The Honourable Schoolboy; and Smiley's people. They are dark and complex but they are richly rewarding, too. There was never a spy as intriguing as sad, withdrawn, and brilliant George Smiley.

With the storm coming, I watched the Smiley'e People today in one shot; it's better than TTSS. As in the 1st series, the pace kept on speeding up to a quick finale. It's too bad Ingrid Pitt got such a small part. Love her in the vampire movies. Patrick Stewart (Captain Piccard sp?) appeared for about a minute. There were also 3 bond villains from the past.
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