J. Edgar - directed by Clint Eastwood - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 102 Old 11-17-2011, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I saw J. Edgar last weekend and loved it. I think the only people who won't like it are those whose opinions about the man are so fixed, they are unwilling to celebrate his ambiguity. I think J. Edgar works mostly because Eastwood recognized Hoover's delicious ambiguity. There is much to admire about Hoover's career, particularly the early years, but much to detest, too, a dichotomy from which Eastwood does not shrink.

Eastwood's film reminded me of William Manchester's magisterial biography of Douglas MacArthur, American Caesar. It was clear to me at least that Manchester could not make up his mind about MacArthur, a conclusion Manchester confirmed when I had an opportunity to discuss his book with him after a banquet at which he spoke. I got the same impression about Eastwood when seeing his movie. Note that Eastwood's screenwriter, Dustin Lance Black is gay, he wrote the Milk screenplay, too, and won an Oscar for it.

I thought the film did an excellent job of suggesting Hoover's probable sexual preferences but did so in a way that honored the ambiguous nature of those preferences. I also liked the evenhanded way the film described both Hoover's brilliance, organizational ability, and political skill, while not shying away from making clear what a bully, publicity hound, and frequent trampler of civil rights he was. Like MacArthur, I believe Hoover's tragedy was that he lived too long.

J. Edgar's 137 minute runtime passed in the blinking of an eye. It is a fascinating a character study of a man who most would agree was one of the most important figures in American 20th Century history, although most would probably not be able to agree about what to make of him. 9 Stars out of 10

so I assume Leonardo DiCaprio once again didn't disappoint either? ...can't wait to see this one.
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post #32 of 102 Old 11-17-2011, 10:52 AM
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so I assume Leonardo DiCaprio once again didn't disappoint either? ...can't wait to see this one.

DiCaprio was terrific as J. Edgar Hoover. He made the man both sympathetic and monstrous, which, I suppose, was pretty close to the facts. Like Eastwood and his screenwriter, I can't make up my mind about Hoover and DiCaprio's performance, properly, didn't make it any easier for me.

Arnie Hammer, as Hoover's "longtime companion," Clyde Tolson was at least as good as DiCaprio. I couldn't believe it when I discovered that Hammer was only 24 years old when J. Edgar was filmed. Hammer had impressed me earlier with his performance as the Winklevoss twins in The Social Network.
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post #33 of 102 Old 11-22-2011, 08:39 PM
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DiCaprio was good, and the makeup, dissed by some critics, looked pretty good to me. The film was slow, but for those with memories of the time it should be pretty interesting. Eastwood gave indications of most of the speculations about Hoover but left a great many things ambiguous. It is a film primarily about Hoover's amassing of power, and it is not a warm film- everything is kept at a distance, as was probably the way Hoover led his life.

If you think you are interested in the man you probably won't be disappointed.

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post #34 of 102 Old 11-22-2011, 10:53 PM
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Eastwood gave indications of most of the speculations about Hoover but left a great many things ambiguous. It is a film primarily about Hoover's amassing of power, and it is not a warm film- everything is kept at a distance, as was probably the way Hoover led his life.

Essentially, that sounds like the sum total of Hoover historically.
In which case, this movie appears to be a reasonable biographical film.

Hoover was anything BUT a sweetheart (except to his beau).

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post #35 of 102 Old 02-13-2012, 05:33 PM
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Saw this movie awhile back. Pretty good but had some flaws ...well more like I didn't like how the story went back and forth but wow Leo did an excellent job at his role. Will get when it comes out on blu

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post #36 of 102 Old 02-13-2012, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

Essentially, that sounds like the sum total of Hoover historically.
In which case, this movie appears to be a reasonable biographical film.

Disagree - It is empty in every respect.

Eastwood is punching the clock. I doubt he's as misinformed as this appears to be.
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post #37 of 102 Old 02-14-2012, 01:11 AM
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+1...I once adored and looked forward to every film Eastwood directed, Mystic river followed by million dollar and Gran Torino baby were awesome. But everything he's done since then is slow boring art house melancholic garbage. The ones I liked were simple entertaining films, now it's like he's trying to make some stupid political or personal statement and it's just not fun at all.
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post #38 of 102 Old 02-14-2012, 07:10 AM
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Saw this movie awhile back. Pretty good but had some flaws ...well more like I didn't like how the story went back and forth but wow Leo did an excellent job at his role. Will get when it comes out on blu

J. Edgar Hoover was a difficult subject for Eastwood to tackle because Hoover was a maddening combination of great talent and petty vindictiveness. For a fuller discussion of my views of the film see Post #30, above. I should add that the film did nothing to lessen my high regard for Clint Eastwood's talents as a director. CAVEAT: I am a public affairs junkie so I loved the film but can understand why a biopic about a subject as largely unsympathetic as J. Edgar Hoover might be unappealing to many viewers.
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post #39 of 102 Old 02-14-2012, 10:05 AM
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Let's call a spade a spade here.....the guy was a dick.

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post #40 of 102 Old 02-14-2012, 01:28 PM
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Let's call a spade a spade here.....the guy was a dick.

Which goes to show that even a**holes can have talent and be good at their jobs. Of course, in the case of Hoover, whether he was good at his job would depend on who you asked. That very dichotomy is why I liked Eastwood's film as much as I did. It isn't necessary to love the guy to enjoy the film but anybody who despises every aspect of everything Hoover ever did in his long life is, of course, going to despise the film, too.
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post #41 of 102 Old 02-14-2012, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Which goes to show that even a**holes can have talent and be good at their jobs. Of course, in the case of Hoover, whether he was good at his job would depend on who you asked. That very dichotomy is why I liked Eastwood's film as much as I did. It isn't necessary to love the guy to enjoy the film but anybody who despises every aspect of everything Hoover ever did in his long life is, of course, going to despise the film, too.

Good points - Eastwood delivers stories in a simple and mostly elegant form. This subject has too many places to go that are off the menu in hollywood.
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post #42 of 102 Old 02-15-2012, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Saw this movie awhile back. Pretty good but had some flaws ...well more like I didn't like how the story went back and forth but wow Leo did an excellent job at his role. Will get when it comes out on blu

I'm looking forward to it. I've ordered my copy.

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post #43 of 102 Old 02-15-2012, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Which goes to show that even a**holes can have talent and be good at their jobs. Of course, in the case of Hoover, whether he was good at his job would depend on who you asked. That very dichotomy is why I liked Eastwood's film as much as I did. It isn't necessary to love the guy to enjoy the film but anybody who despises every aspect of everything Hoover ever did in his long life is, of course, going to despise the film, too.

True, and it says more about the viewer then about the film, or even about the central character.

Can't wait to see this myself.

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post #44 of 102 Old 02-16-2012, 07:09 AM
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I'm looking forward to it. I've ordered my copy.

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True, and it says more about the viewer then about the film, or even about the central character.

Can't wait to see this myself.

I think both of you will be glad you saw J. Edgar, although it's not an altogether enjoyable viewing experience. Hoover was a pivotal figure in 20th Century American history but he was in many ways an unpleasant fellow. Even the scenes showing his anguish about his uncertain sexuality are difficult because they show that in addition to being an often nasty piece of work, he was tortured and unhappy.
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post #45 of 102 Old 02-16-2012, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

but anybody who despises every aspect of everything Hoover ever did in his long life is, of course, going to despise the film, too.

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True, and it says more about the viewer then about the film, or even about the central character.

If that can be said about Hoover, then it could be said about a movie dealing with Hitler, or pick your favorite villain. If I despise Hitler or Jeffrey Dahmer, it says more about me than it does about the movie or the character? In this instance, I don't agree with that. I think it says more about the viewer when they despise an actor or actress, not because of their talent or lack of talent, but they just don't like them because they smirk, or they have facial hair, or the way they dress, or they think they are cool, etc., etc. I've seen that kind of negative response a lot on this forum. They're entitled to their opinion, but in those instances it's more about them than the actors, IMO. Despising people who have a documented history of cruelty, subversion, genocide, etc., etc., is very valid. Despising them because they look funny or you don't like the way they comb their hair, is petty.

My opinion of Hoover doesn't deter me from wanting to watch this movie, and I doubt it will sway my opinion on whether or not I like the movie. I let movies stand on their own merit. It's an Eastwood movie, so that is a good indicator that I will like it.
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I think it says more about the viewer when they despise an actor or actress, not because of their talent or lack of talent, but they just don’t like them because they smirk, or they have facial hair, or the way they dress, or they think they are cool, etc., etc. I’ve seen that kind of negative response a lot on this forum. They’re entitled to their opinion, but in those instances it’s more about them than the actors, IMO. Despising people who have a documented history of cruelty, subversion, genocide, etc., etc., is very valid. Despising them because they look funny or you don’t like the way they comb their hair, is petty.

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My opinion of Hoover doesn’t deter me from wanting to watch this movie, and I doubt it will sway my opinion on whether or not I like the movie.

More power to ya, but I can't do that.

Hoover was human scum who abused his official position in our govt. to gain greater power.
He did it thru fear, intimidation, breaking the law, and destroying the lives of many innocent people.
This reality is hard for me to put aside and watch this movie (which is semi-fictionalized, as all biopics are) for "entertainment" purposes.

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post #47 of 102 Old 02-16-2012, 09:43 AM
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My opinion of Hoover doesn't deter me from wanting to watch this movie, and I doubt it will sway my opinion on whether or not I like the movie. I let movies stand on their own merit. It's an Eastwood movie, so that is a good indicator that I will like it.

Me, too. I was a little put off by what I read about the movie, primarily Hoover's nastiness and repressed sexuality, but decided to see it anyway because it was a Clint Eastwood film. I was glad I did and, as noted in an earlier post, I think you will like it too.
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And yet with all his faults, Hoover managed to stay as the Director of the FBI from 1935 to his death in 1972. He served under 6 Presidents:

Franklin D. Roosevelt
Harry S. Truman
Dwight D. Eisenhower
John F. Kennedy
Lyndon B. Johnson
Richard Nixon
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post #49 of 102 Old 02-17-2012, 02:51 PM
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And yet with all his faults, Hoover managed to stay as the Director of the FBI from 1935 to his death in 1972. He served under 6 Presidents:

Franklin D. Roosevelt
Harry S. Truman
Dwight D. Eisenhower
John F. Kennedy
Lyndon B. Johnson
Richard Nixon

Because they were afraid of him....
In D.C., there was an urban legend for many decades that Hoover had the goods on all the players.
It was believed he knew where all the bodies were buried.

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post #50 of 102 Old 02-17-2012, 03:02 PM
 
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Because they were afraid of him....
In D.C., there was an urban legend for many decades that Hoover had the goods on all the players.
It was believed he knew where all the bodies were buried.

The Presidents - ALL OF THEM - were afraid of Hoover?
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post #51 of 102 Old 02-17-2012, 03:25 PM
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The Presidents - ALL OF THEM - were afraid of Hoover?

You never heard that before?
Google is your friend.

Hoover was a very shrewd political warrior...he knew how to play the game with those who got elected for a living.

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post #52 of 102 Old 02-17-2012, 07:28 PM
 
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You never heard that before?
Google is your friend.

Hoover was a very shrewd political warrior...he knew how to play the game with those who got elected for a living.

Sure with the likes of Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon, but with Truman and Eisenhower?

BTW - LOL - you believe everything you read on the internet?
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post #53 of 102 Old 02-18-2012, 02:15 AM
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If that can be said about Hoover, then it could be said about a movie dealing with Hitler, or pick your favorite villain. If I despise Hitler or Jeffrey Dahmer, it says more about me than it does about the movie or the character?

NO! I'm talking about people who refuses to watch a movie, or say anything positive about it simply because of the dislike of that character, and can't rise above his/her personal bias in that regard. Provided said movie has positive qualities otherwise.
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In this instance, I don’t agree with that. I think it says more about the viewer when they despise an actor or actress, not because of their talent or lack of talent, but they just don’t like them because they smirk, or they have facial hair, or the way they dress, or they think they are cool, etc., etc. I’ve seen that kind of negative response a lot on this forum. They’re entitled to their opinion, but in those instances it’s more about them than the actors, IMO. Despising people who have a documented history of cruelty, subversion, genocide, etc., etc., is very valid. Despising them because they look funny or you don’t like the way they comb their hair, is petty.

Yeah if this was relevant to this discussion I would agree.
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My opinion of Hoover doesn’t deter me from wanting to watch this movie, and I doubt it will sway my opinion on whether or not I like the movie. I let movies stand on their own merit. It’s an Eastwood movie, so that is a good indicator that I will like it.

Then your entire post was in vain, since it seems "the shirt doesn't fit".

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post #54 of 102 Old 02-18-2012, 04:52 AM
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NO! I'm talking about people who refuses to watch a movie, or say anything positive about it simply because of the dislike of that character, and can't rise above his/her personal bias in that regard. Provided said movie has positive qualities otherwise.

Gotcha. I obviously misinterpreted your post and now see we agree.
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post #55 of 102 Old 02-18-2012, 07:51 AM
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Sure with the likes of Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon, but with Truman and Eisenhower?

Unless you want me to Google for you....here ya go (knowledge off the top of my head):

Truman was no admirer of Hoover.
During his presidency, Hoover became The Living Legend...the Defender of Freedom, the guy who was seen rooting out all the commies in the country (particularly in the govt. and Hollywood).
His reputation with the public made it nearly impossible to fire him.

Eisenhower fooled around with women other than his wife.
He tried to keep it secret for as long as possible (and did a pretty good job of it).


Quote:


BTW - LOL - you believe everything you read on the internet?

Uhhh...no.
I have always been a political junkie and history freak.
In addition to many books, I have been reading about politics in daily newspapers for 50 years.

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post #56 of 102 Old 02-18-2012, 08:08 AM
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Eisenhower fooled around with women other than his wife.
He tried to keep it secret for as long as possible (and did a pretty good job of it).


I was in high school during the second Eisenhower term. His affair with Kay Summersby was pretty widely known but not often talked about. He certainly wanted it kept that way. Otherwise he would have become the original Clinton....

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post #57 of 102 Old 02-18-2012, 09:45 AM
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I was in high school during the second Eisenhower term. His affair with Kay Summersby was pretty widely known but not often talked about. He certainly wanted it kept that way. Otherwise he would have become the original Clinton....

IIRC, she was related to him in some way?
Oh, OK, I guess not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kay_Summersby

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post #58 of 102 Old 02-18-2012, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post

I was in high school during the second Eisenhower term. His affair with Kay Summersby was pretty widely known but not often talked about. He certainly wanted it kept that way. Otherwise he would have become the original Clinton....

So in other words, it was close but no cigar.
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post #59 of 102 Old 02-18-2012, 10:28 PM
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So in other words, it was close but no cigar.

That's disgusting.

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post #60 of 102 Old 02-18-2012, 11:18 PM
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So in other words, it was close but no cigar.

Lol

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