J. Edgar - directed by Clint Eastwood - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 102 Old 09-20-2011, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Clint's much anticipated new film finally has a trailer. Based on actual events (and people), this new biographic drama stars Leonardo DiCaprio, Naomi Watts, Judi Dench, Armie Hammer, Josh Lucas, Lea Thompson, Dermot Mulroney, and Stephen Root.

As the face of law enforcement in America for almost 50 years, J. Edgar Hoover was feared and admired, reviled and revered. But behind closed doors, he held secrets that would have destroyed his image, his career and his life.

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post #2 of 102 Old 09-20-2011, 06:42 AM
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Interesting and a must see if Eastwood is the director.
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post #3 of 102 Old 09-20-2011, 08:17 AM
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Ooooh! Are there going to be lots of boas and high heels?

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post #4 of 102 Old 09-20-2011, 09:12 AM
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DiCaprio as J. Edgar Hoover? It seems questionable casting to me.

I wonder if Eastwood will stick to the facts or include the (totally unconfirmed) rumors about Hoover's homosexuality. I believe I saw evidence of the latter in the trailer.

In fact Hollywood has borne a really serious grudge against Hoover ever since he investigated homegrown Nazis in the 1940's and Communists in the 1950's. The problem being, he found lots of both in Hollywood. The other problem being, that "outing" a gay Hollywood star then was a definate career-ender, and Hoover was fond of using this very effective tactic to elicit information from reluctant witnesses.

Hoover also was a strong opponent of pornography, which kicked off a decades long conflict with Jack Valenti, who was constantly pushing the envelope of "community standards" with his totally subjective MPAA rating system.

Perhaps the biggest problem Hollywood has is Hoover's investigation of Civil Rights leaders such as Martin Luther King. Most people need to be reminded that he was enforcing existing federal laws at the time. Those laws were then changed and Hoover enforced the changed laws, prosecuting the KKK among others.

In my view, the biggest problem with Hoover was his 37-year tenure with the FBI, which allowed him to amass too much power. That is the reason we have a 10-year limit on the position of FBI Director today.

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post #5 of 102 Old 09-20-2011, 10:36 AM
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Gary McCoy makes a lot of very good points, but I disagree with his assessment of DiCaprio. I think he can play different ages very well (e.g. The Aviator) and also will be able to mimic the looks of JEH.
I expect an even hand from Eastwood, so I'm looking forward to this film.
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post #6 of 102 Old 09-20-2011, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

DiCaprio as J. Edgar Hoover? It seems questionable casting to me.

I wonder if Eastwood will stick to the facts or include the (totally unconfirmed) rumors about Hoover's homosexuality. I believe I saw evidence of the latter in the trailer.

In fact Hollywood has borne a really serious grudge against Hoover ever since he investigated homegrown Nazis in the 1940's and Communists in the 1950's. The problem being, he found lots of both in Hollywood. The other problem being, that "outing" a gay Hollywood star then was a definate career-ender, and Hoover was fond of using this very effective tactic to elicit information from reluctant witnesses.

Hoover also was a strong opponent of pornography, which kicked off a decades long conflict with Jack Valenti, who was constantly pushing the envelope of "community standards" with his totally subjective MPAA rating system.

Perhaps the biggest problem Hollywood has is Hoover's investigation of Civil Rights leaders such as Martin Luther King. Most people need to be reminded that he was enforcing existing federal laws at the time. Those laws were then changed and Hoover enforced the changed laws, prosecuting the KKK among others.

In my view, the biggest problem with Hoover was his 37-year tenure with the FBI, which allowed him to amass too much power. That is the reason we have a 10-year limit on the position of FBI Director today.

The Hollywood of the 40s and 50s is long in its grave.
I doubt the dead are behind this film.

If anything, it seems to be a bio of a guy who, at a minimum, was morally-challenged and a first class A$$hole.
The most powerful unelected man in the U.S. Govt. ever.
Good material for a movie IMO.

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post #7 of 102 Old 09-20-2011, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

The Hollywood of the 40s and 50s is long in its grave.
I doubt the dead are behind this film.

If anything, it seems to be a bio of a guy who, at a minimum, was morally-challenged and a first class A$$hole.
The most powerful unelected man in the U.S. Govt. ever.
Good material for a movie IMO.

+1

And lets not forget, Eastwood is a Republican leaning toward libertarian.

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post #8 of 102 Old 09-21-2011, 08:01 AM
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This looks awesome to me. My interest in the Kennedy assassination, 25 years ago, led me to a life of reading biographies, several on Hoover among them. This will be a must see film for me.

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post #9 of 102 Old 09-21-2011, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

DiCaprio as J. Edgar Hoover? It seems questionable casting to me.

I wonder if Eastwood will stick to the facts or include the (totally unconfirmed) rumors about Hoover's homosexuality. I believe I saw evidence of the latter in the trailer.

In fact Hollywood has borne a really serious grudge against Hoover ever since he investigated homegrown Nazis in the 1940's and Communists in the 1950's. The problem being, he found lots of both in Hollywood. The other problem being, that "outing" a gay Hollywood star then was a definate career-ender, and Hoover was fond of using this very effective tactic to elicit information from reluctant witnesses.

Hoover also was a strong opponent of pornography, which kicked off a decades long conflict with Jack Valenti, who was constantly pushing the envelope of "community standards" with his totally subjective MPAA rating system.

Perhaps the biggest problem Hollywood has is Hoover's investigation of Civil Rights leaders such as Martin Luther King. Most people need to be reminded that he was enforcing existing federal laws at the time. Those laws were then changed and Hoover enforced the changed laws, prosecuting the KKK among others.

In my view, the biggest problem with Hoover was his 37-year tenure with the FBI, which allowed him to amass too much power. That is the reason we have a 10-year limit on the position of FBI Director today.


Excellent, excellent comments. Hard to disagree with any of them.
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post #10 of 102 Old 09-21-2011, 08:39 AM
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Looks very interesting. I think Eastwoods gritty style will make this be a must see.

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post #11 of 102 Old 09-21-2011, 03:05 PM
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As much as I enjoy most of Dicaprio's work, I was a little hesitant when I saw his name attached to the film but am willing to give him a pass because Eastwood is directing. Haven't been disappointed by Clint yet. Now if Oliver Stone was directing...

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post #12 of 102 Old 09-21-2011, 05:32 PM
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As a fan of both DiCaprio and Clint Eastwood I can't wait for this one. Looks like a great film and I certainly won't miss it. Besides, the music from Max Richter in the trailer is beautiful.
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post #13 of 102 Old 09-21-2011, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Rach View Post

Excellent, excellent comments. Hard to disagree with any of them.

Jack Valenti in bed with pornography?

Regardless of the $$$ involved, Hollywood studios wouldn't (and couldn't) consider teaming up with porn.
After all, the Porn Industry was/is the direct result of Hollywood's major movie studios wanting absolutely NO part whatsoever of selling pornography to the public.

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post #14 of 102 Old 09-22-2011, 08:26 AM
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+1

And lets not forget, Eastwood is a Republican leaning toward libertarian.

Yeah which can produce a fresh approach in the predominantly left wing Hollywood.
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post #15 of 102 Old 09-22-2011, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

Jack Valenti in bed with pornography?

Regardless of the $$$ involved, Hollywood studios wouldn't (and couldn't) consider teaming up with porn.
After all, the Porn Industry was/is the direct result of Hollywood's major movie studios wanting absolutely NO part whatsoever of selling pornography to the public.

I don't think he was pushing x rated material as one thinks of porn today but a rather lax standards Valenti was pushing for the industry's self rating system.
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post #16 of 102 Old 09-22-2011, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by netudki View Post

I don't think he was pushing x rated material as one thinks of porn today but a rather lax standards Valenti was pushing for the industry's self rating system.

The birth of the rating system was in direct response to threats from Congress to regulate the content of the movie business.
The studios were told, in no uncertain terms, to come up with a system or one would be imposed by the govt.
For better or worse, the system is still in place.

Is there anyone here who thinks movie history would have been the same if the govt. had become censors?
Same movies with the same content would have been made since that time?
I didn't think so....

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post #17 of 102 Old 09-22-2011, 11:59 AM
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The birth of the rating system was in direct response to threats from Congress to regulate the content of the movie business.
The studios were told, in no uncertain terms, to come up with a system or one would be imposed by the govt.
For better or worse, the system is still in place.

Is there anyone here who thinks movie history would have been the same if the govt. had become censors?
Same movies with the same content would have been made since that time?
I didn't think so....

The point isn't about censorship, but rather your mistaken assumption that suggested that one of the poster claimed that Valenti was for porn.
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post #18 of 102 Old 09-22-2011, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hoover also was a strong opponent of pornography, which kicked off a decades long conflict with Jack Valenti, who was constantly pushing the envelope of "community standards" with his totally subjective MPAA rating system.

This sentence implies that the conflict between Hoover and Valenti derived from Hoover being an "opponent of pornography", which would indicate that Valenti was a proponent of it.
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post #19 of 102 Old 09-22-2011, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by lwright84 View Post

hoover also was a strong opponent of pornography, which kicked off a decades long conflict with jack valenti, who was constantly pushing the envelope of "community standards" with his totally subjective mpaa rating system.

this sentence implies that the conflict between hoover and valenti derived from hoover being an "opponent of pornography", which would indicate that valenti was a proponent of it.

+1

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post #20 of 102 Old 09-22-2011, 01:52 PM
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This sentence implies that the conflict between Hoover and Valenti derived from Hoover being an "opponent of pornography", which would indicate that Valenti was a proponent of it.

Not that there is anything wrong with that. If that is factual. Someone once told me not to believe everything I read on the Internet. Now I wonder who that could be? No, not you, lwright84.

By today's standards, and I think the vast majority of people would agree, if you have two men who are lifetime companions' and they never marry, they are gay. Also, judging by the number of gay politicians that come out against homosexuality, it isn't surprising that Hoover set out to prove Valenti was gay. They make the public appearances look good and then live their lives as it suits them, which is the way it should be; just don't be hypocrites.

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post #21 of 102 Old 09-22-2011, 01:58 PM
 
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Newser) – Before his long presidency of the Motion Picture Association of America, Jack Valenti served as a top White House aide to LBJ. Recently declassified files show that, at the same time, the FBI under J. Edgar Hoover was investigating whether Valenti, who died in 2007, was gay. Although no proof was ever found, the files offer a new perspective into how Hoover's FBI gathered compromising personal information, reports the Washington Post.

http://www.newser.com/story/51220/ho...n-valenti.html
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post #22 of 102 Old 09-22-2011, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

.
Also, judging by the number of gay politicians that come out against homosexuality, it isn't surprising that Hoover set out to prove Valenti was gay.

How many times have we seen that those who have the most vociferous anti-gay views are themselves gay?
There is no better tactic to throw off the bloodhounds than to accuse others of one's own sins.

Mr. Hoover and his "life-long companion" have been the topic of many whisperings, for many decades.
The circumstantial evidence is fairly strong IMO.

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post #23 of 102 Old 09-22-2011, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

I wonder if Eastwood will stick to the facts or include the (totally unconfirmed) rumors about Hoover's homosexuality. I believe I saw evidence of the latter in the trailer.

.

Out of curiosity, was Hoover ever married or linked to any women?
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post #24 of 102 Old 09-22-2011, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Not that there is anything wrong with that. If that is factual. Someone once told me not to believe everything I read on the Internet. Now I wonder who that could be? No, not you, lwright84.

By today's standards, and I think the vast majority of people would agree, if you have two men who are lifetime companions' and they never marry, they are gay. Also, judging by the number of gay politicians that come out against homosexuality, it isn't surprising that Hoover set out to prove Valenti was gay. They make the public appearances look good and then live their lives as it suits them, which is the way it should be; just don't be hypocrites.

Lol I was just clarifying for netudki as to why oink had said what he said.
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post #25 of 102 Old 09-22-2011, 03:17 PM
 
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Was J. Edgar Hoover a cross-dresser?

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...-cross-dresser
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post #26 of 102 Old 09-22-2011, 03:19 PM
 
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Out of curiosity, was Hoover ever married or linked to any women?

Helen Gandy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Gandy

He never married.
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post #27 of 102 Old 09-22-2011, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lwright84 View Post

hoover also was a strong opponent of pornography, which kicked off a decades long conflict with jack valenti, who was constantly pushing the envelope of "community standards" with his totally subjective mpaa rating system.

This sentence implies that the conflict between hoover and valenti derived from hoover being an "opponent of pornography", which would indicate that valenti was a proponent of it.

-1 It may only implies that Valenti, and Hoover may have disagreed what pornography is, as you know the definition varied with the times,and even among people of the same era. Valenti might just considered a few titts ok on screen Hoover thought that was pornographic, but that doesn't mean he was for porn(as we classify it today),as you and oink suggests.
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post #28 of 102 Old 09-22-2011, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

How many times have we seen that those who have the most vociferous anti-gay views are themselves gay?
There is no better tactic to throw off the bloodhounds than to accuse others of one's own sins.

Mr. Hoover and his "life-long companion" have been the topic of many whisperings, for many decades.
The circumstantial evidence is fairly strong IMO.

Really, is that how you wanted to be judged too, by "whispers"?
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post #29 of 102 Old 09-23-2011, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by netudki View Post

-1 It may only implies that Valenti, and Hoover may have disagreed what pornography is, as you know the definition varied with the times,and even among people of the same era. Valenti might just considered a few titts ok on screen Hoover thought that was pornographic, but that doesn't mean he was for porn(as we classify it today),as you and oink suggests.

Read my posts again.
I didn't suggest Hoover or Valenti approved of porn.


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Really, is that how you wanted to be judged too, by "whispers"?

I admit we don't have photos on the net of JEH blowing his buddy Clyde, but...

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post #30 of 102 Old 11-16-2011, 07:37 PM
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I saw J. Edgar last weekend and loved it. I think the only people who won't like it are those whose opinions about the man are so fixed, they are unwilling to celebrate his ambiguity. I think J. Edgar works mostly because Eastwood recognized Hoover's delicious ambiguity. There is much to admire about Hoover's career, particularly the early years, but much to detest, too, a dichotomy from which Eastwood does not shrink.

Eastwood's film reminded me of William Manchester's magisterial biography of Douglas MacArthur, American Caesar. It was clear to me at least that Manchester could not make up his mind about MacArthur, a conclusion Manchester confirmed when I had an opportunity to discuss his book with him after a banquet at which he spoke. I got the same impression about Eastwood when seeing his movie. Note that Eastwood's screenwriter, Dustin Lance Black is gay, he wrote the Milk screenplay, too, and won an Oscar for it.

I thought the film did an excellent job of suggesting Hoover's probable sexual preferences but did so in a way that honored the ambiguous nature of those preferences. I also liked the evenhanded way the film described both Hoover's brilliance, organizational ability, and political skill, while not shying away from making clear what a bully, publicity hound, and frequent trampler of civil rights he was. Like MacArthur, I believe Hoover's tragedy was that he lived too long.

J. Edgar's 137 minute runtime passed in the blinking of an eye. It is a fascinating a character study of a man who most would agree was one of the most important figures in American 20th Century history, although most would probably not be able to agree about what to make of him. 9 Stars out of 10
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