Say 'allo to my lil' fren... Scarface reboot - AVS Forum
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Movies, Concerts, and Music Discussion > Say 'allo to my lil' fren... Scarface reboot
joeblow's Avatar joeblow 09:19 AM 09-22-2011
Any guesses on Scarface's ethnicity this time and the location of the story?

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Universal Pictures is developing a new version of Scarface, the title first released in 1932 and then turned into the iconic 1983 film that starred Al Pacino as Cuban gangster Tony Montana. I’d heard that the studio has been meeting writers to script a take for a film that will be produced by Marc Shmuger and his Global Produce banner along with Martin Bregman. Bregman produced the Pacino version.



The film is not intended to be a remake or a sequel. It will take the common elements of the first two films: an outsider, an immigrant, barges his way into the criminal establishment in pursuit of a twisted version of the American dream, becoming a kingpin through a campaign of ruthlessness and violent ambition. The studio is keeping the specifics of where the new Tony character comes from under wraps at the moment, but ethnicity and geography were important in the first two versions. In the 1932 Scarface, an Italian (Paul Muni) took over Chicago, and in the Brian De Palma-directed remake, a Cuban cornered the cocaine trade in 1980s Miami, only to be consumed by it. Ann Dvorak, George Raft and Boris Karloff starred in the original and Michelle Pfeiffer, Steven Bauer and Mary Elizabeth Mastrontonio starred in the remake.



Does the iconic Universal library title Scarface deserve an updated version for a new generation? I’m told that when Universal put together the 1983 film, there were howls of heresy; after all, the film was considered a Howard Hughes-produced classic, with a script by Ben Hecht. Howard Hawks directed it with Richard Rosson. The remake became iconic in its own way, particularly in influencing hip-hop culture. Tony Montana’s image is still widely merchandised; his signature line “Say hello to my little friend’ remains the biggest selling cell phone voice ringtone, and Universal has sold over 10 million DVD units worldwide.

Linky

- Mexican mafioso in Texas?
- African immigrant gangsta in Los Angeles?
- Taking it overseas, maybe a Japanese yakuza in Tokyo?

PooperScooper's Avatar PooperScooper 09:26 AM 09-22-2011
Reboot, shmeeboot. REMAKE!

larry
joeblow's Avatar joeblow 09:29 AM 09-22-2011
It's not a remake because it won't be about either an Italian gangster in '30s New York or a Cuban immigrant in early 80s Miami. The last movie with Pacino was a reboot of the original.
PooperScooper's Avatar PooperScooper 09:57 AM 09-22-2011
Don't know if I buy that or not. But, it does have some merit. And I thought the original was set in Chicago, but that doesn't matter with what we're talking about.

I'm going to be watching the Pacino version on BD soon since I found out someone I knew in high school was an extra on the dance floor, with screen time, in one of the scenes in the club.

larry
GoCaboNow's Avatar GoCaboNow 11:30 AM 09-22-2011
James Franco for the Pacino role...
rezzy's Avatar rezzy 03:38 PM 09-22-2011
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- African immigrant gangsta in Los Angeles?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post20986353
Lee Stewart's Avatar Lee Stewart 04:21 PM 09-22-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

It's not a remake because it won't be about either an Italian gangster in '30s New York or a Cuban immigrant in early 80s Miami. The last movie with Pacino was a reboot of the original.

You mean it won't be about liquior like the original or cocaine like the remake. It will be about some other substance and that makes it another remake.
Tulpa's Avatar Tulpa 04:48 PM 09-22-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

It's not a remake because it won't be about either an Italian gangster in '30s New York or a Cuban immigrant in early 80s Miami. The last movie with Pacino was a reboot of the original.

Reboot only applies to film franchises, where they're discarding the original series continuity and starting fresh.

You can't reboot a standalone film, which both of the Scarfaces were. It's a remake.
smudge981's Avatar smudge981 05:32 PM 09-22-2011
Hey everyone, I've got this great idea for a sandwich! I'm going to use ground-up meat and place it between two pieces of bread! Now here comes a curveball. It's not a hamburger! That's because I'll be using salsa and Dijon instead of ketchup and mustard. See? It's not really a hamburger because the condiments are different.

As I'm fond of saying, "I may look dumb but I'm not stupid." Nancy up, Hollywood, and call it a remake already.
thedeskE's Avatar thedeskE 05:47 PM 09-22-2011
What kinda Fkn ****-A-Roach would dare mess wit my Mther Fkn Movie HUH? Hey, I gotta de Power & Da Money, so don't go messin' wit my YaaYo or my movie, you little fkn ****-a-roach mtrfkr you.
thedeskE's Avatar thedeskE 06:00 PM 09-22-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post


I'm going to be watching the Pacino version on BD soon since I found out someone I knew in high school was an extra on the dance floor, with screen time, in one of the scenes in the club.

larry

Fun Trivia. Those scenes were supposed to hint at places on the lower causeway club area I think.
Jim McC's Avatar Jim McC 09:33 PM 09-22-2011
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

You mean it won't be about liquior like the original or cocaine like the remake. It will be about some other substance and that makes it another remake.

It's about the illegal trafficking of Viagra.
PooperScooper's Avatar PooperScooper 06:47 AM 09-23-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Reboot only applies to film franchises, where they're discarding the original series continuity and starting fresh.

You can't reboot a standalone film, which both of the Scarfaces were. It's a remake.

I'll buy that!

larry
Roger Lococco's Avatar Roger Lococco 11:48 AM 09-25-2011
unfortunately if this movie turns out to be good, it'll inspire a whole new generation of moronic wankstas to emulate what they see onscreen...
Shaded Dogfood's Avatar Shaded Dogfood 07:47 AM 09-26-2011
If they wanted to be really bold they could set it on the US-Mexican border. But it could get people killed if they did.
joeblow's Avatar joeblow 11:23 AM 11-30-2011
*** November 2011 Update ***

A writer has been selected. It's David Ayer, the guy who wrote Training Day. He sounds enthusiastic about the opportunity... we'll see.

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“This is a fantasy for me, I can still remember when I saw the film at 13 and it blew my mind,” he said. “I sought it out; I went after it hard. I see it as the story of the American dream, with a character whose moral compass points in a different direction. That puts it right in my wheelhouse. I studied both the original Ben Hecht-Howard Hawks movie and the DePalma-Pacino version and found some universal themes. I’m still under the hood figuring out the wiring that will translate, but both films had a specificity of place, there was unapologetic violence, and a main character who socially scared the **** out of people, but who had his own moral code. Each was faithful to the underworld of its time. There are enough opportunities in the real world today that provide an opportunity to do this right. If it was just an attempt to remake the 1983 film, that would never work.”


joeblow's Avatar joeblow 11:47 AM 11-30-2011
To address some responses above, no way are these movies remakes. We never call James Bond fiilms remakes when they get a new cast and crew, and at least in those instances the main characters are named the same.

These Scarface movies are a series of episodes that share a basic common theme and not much else. They take place in completely different cities in different time eras with 100% different cast members, music and plot elements unlike remakes. The two Scarface films can literally exist in the same universe with no conflicts as a result.

If the first two were named "Scarface: The Italian", and "Scarface: The Cuban", or "Scarface: Chicago and Scarface: Miami" this example would be easier to see and people would talk about the next film edition as they do about the next season of The Real World instead of the next remake. I prefer them all being named Scarface of course, but I don't see them as being remakes at all. There are too few common elements for that.

When the 60s Star Trek show came back in the late 80s, with ST: The Next Generation, the basic idea was similar but everything else had changed, including all of the characters. That was a reboot, and the term is closer to what is being done with the Scarface film releases.

For me this also makes it clear: I'm looking forward to seeing a reboot of the
DragonLoaf's Avatar DragonLoaf 01:38 PM 11-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

James Franco for the Pacino role...

Duane "The Rock" Johnson
mrhan's Avatar mrhan 02:34 PM 11-30-2011
If it's African American there surely will be a comparison with New Jack City. I think the HK film industry should do one with HK as the backdrop. Or even better, one in Japan with Takashi Miike doing is own version. Surely, he will make it over the top and would probably be better than any remake here.
Tulpa's Avatar Tulpa 02:38 PM 11-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

These Scarface movies are a series of episodes that share a basic common theme and not much else. They take place in completely different cities in different time eras with 100% different cast members, music and plot elements unlike remakes. The two Scarface films can literally exist in the same universe with no conflicts as a result.

That's like saying John Carpenter's remake of The Thing is a reboot of Hawk's The Thing from Another World because one takes place at the north pole in the 50s and the other takes place at the south pole in the 80s. Yet no one calls the Carpenter one a reboot. Nor are the two Scarface films referred to as a "franchise."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarface_%281983_film%29

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Scarface is a 1983 American epic crime drama movie directed by Brian De Palma, written by Oliver Stone, produced by Martin Bregman and starring Al Pacino as Tony Montana. A contemporary remake of the original 1932 film of the same name, the film tells the story of Tony

The James Bond films, on the other hand, did reboot, as it revamped Bond's history and had a whole series of previous films and established canon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_...282006_film%29

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Casino Royale reboots the franchise, establishing a new timeline and narrative framework not meant to precede or succeed any previous Bond film, although elements of the plot do run into the subsequent film, Quantum of Solace.

The big difference is that neither Scarface movie was considered serial. They were their own films. Yes, the COULD have been in the same universe, but that wasn't the intent. De Palma remade Scarface. He didn't intend for a sequel, nor did the original filmmakers.

Moving on...


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When the 60s Star Trek show came back in the late 80s, with ST: The Next Generation, the basic idea was similar but everything else had changed, including all of the characters. That was a reboot, and the term is closer to what is being done with the Scarface film releases.

A reboot discards the original continuity. Star Trek The Next Generation didn't discard it, it embraced it in fact. Everything that happened in the original series was considered backstory to TNG, Deep Space 9, and Voyager, with the events of Enterprise also being part of the canon. Nothing was discarded. Abrams' Star Trek of 2009 kind of plays around with the idea of rebooting, but did it through an "alternate history" angle that didn't really discard the originals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reboot_%28fiction%29

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The verb reboot, in media dealing with serial fiction, means to discard much or even all previous continuity in the series and start anew with fresh ideas. Effectively, the writer(s) declare all established fictive history to be irrelevant to the new storyline, and start the series over as if brand-new.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_2009

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The alternate timeline was created in an effort to free the film and the franchise from established continuity constraints while simultaneously preserving original story elements.


Josh Z's Avatar Josh Z 10:15 AM 12-01-2011
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Originally Posted by mrhan View Post

I think the HK film industry should do one with HK as the backdrop.

They did. It was called 'A Better Tomorrow', which was also recently remade in Korea.
Aliens's Avatar Aliens 11:02 AM 12-01-2011
LMAO when this happened.


thehun's Avatar thehun 09:50 PM 12-01-2011
I don't think they would use black or Hispanic, or even Asian gangster, not PC. They might go with a Russian one and they can find real life examples of that from London to Moscow right now, for "inspiration". Better yet choose a gypsy that's never been done before, but knowing "their" true talent of a certain type of crime it wouldn't make a very good movie, rather a documentary.
thehun's Avatar thehun 09:51 PM 12-01-2011
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Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

LMAO when this happened.


I guess being pissed off is high.
mrhan's Avatar mrhan 09:37 AM 12-02-2011
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

They did. It was called 'A Better Tomorrow', which was also recently remade in Korea.

I didn't like the remake. It actually bored the hell out of me.
adpayne's Avatar adpayne 10:06 AM 12-02-2011
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Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Reboot only applies to film franchises, where they're discarding the original series continuity and starting fresh.

You can't reboot a standalone film, which both of the Scarfaces were. It's a remake.

I consider a true remake to have the same plotline, characters, and location.

Otherwise any film that has the same subject matter could be considered a remake. Godfather, Goodfellas, Casino are all about gansters, and people are whacked, etc. Are they remakes?

Art
Tulpa's Avatar Tulpa 10:28 AM 12-02-2011
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Originally Posted by adpayne View Post

I consider a true remake to have the same plotline, characters, and location.

Except DePalma himself said he was remaking the film. And just about all the press refers to it as a remake. Again, Carpenter said he was remaking The Thing from Another World as The Thing, even though the plot, characters, and location are different. I don't know how you get more authoritative when the dudes behind it call it a remake.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remake#Film

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The term "remake" is generally used in reference to a movie which uses an earlier movie as the main source material, rather than in reference to a second, later movie based on the same source. For example, 2001's Ocean's Eleven is a remake of the 1960 film, while 1989's Batman is a re-interpretation of the comic book source material which also inspired 1966's Batman.

With some exceptions, remakes make significant character, plot, and theme changes. For example, the 1968 film The Thomas Crown Affair is centered on a bank robbery, while its 1999 remake involves the theft of a valuable piece of artwork. Similarly, when the 1969 film The Italian Job was remade in 2003, few aspects were carried over. Another notable example is the 1932 film Scarface which was remade in 1983 starring Al Pacino; whereas the setting of 1932 version is the illegal alcohol trade, the characters in the 1983 version are involved in cocaine smuggling. Sometimes a remake is made by the same director. For example, Yasujirō Ozu's black and white A Story of Floating Weeds was remade into the color Floating Weeds. Alfred Hitchcock remade his 1934 black and white The Man Who Knew Too Much in color in 1956; as did Cecil B. DeMille with his 1956 remake of his silent 1923 film The Ten Commandments. Most recently, in 2008, Michael Haneke made Funny Games U.S., his English-language remake of his original Funny Games (this is also an example of a shot-for-shot remake).

If you want to define remake as using the same plot, characters, and location, that's fine, but that's a minority view.


And whatever your definition of remake is, a REBOOT involves a film series that was restarted to create a whole new film series.
joeblow's Avatar joeblow 01:02 PM 12-05-2011
Defining remakes as having consistency in the names of characters, major plot elements, etc. is not a minority vew - it is simply common sense. How can artist try to remake the Mona Lisa without Mona Lisa in it?

I am corrected on the ST:NG analogy since I didn't realize that the show accepted the original show as canon, but in that same paragraph you say that it is a big deal the two Scarface films are not serial. A third one is coming out now - how is it not serial? There is a pattern being established, and if we are one day watching a sixth Scarface movie taking place once again with new characters, plot, setting, etc. like the five before it, who would try to say they are all remakes?

Hollywood tried to remake Psycho a decade or so ago with Anne Hesche (sp?) and Vince Vaughn. It bombed, but the point is that it was a remake by the fact that they literally remade Hitchcock's original 60s classic. It was the same characters going through the same plotline in the same setting.

If the producers of this new Scarface movie did a remake of Tony Montana's rise and fall, I would be agitated because you simply can't remake a classic like that and expect to succeed.

Fortunately it is merely a reboot of the general concept and not a remake of the specifics, so I'm genuinely interested in how it turns out.
Tulpa's Avatar Tulpa 01:18 PM 12-05-2011
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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

but in that same paragraph you say that it is a big deal the two Scarface films are not serial. A third one is coming out now - how is it not serial?

Serials continue the same story, like Godfather, Godfather II, etc. If some dumb filmmaker decided to make his own adaptation of the Puzo novel into a new Godfather film, that would be a reboot, because the Godfather films established a serial story.

Again, the Scarface movies are standalone films. No sequels, no serial story. There's no rebooting to erase the previous continuity because the films are standalone. So the film can be remade over and over without it being considered a reboot.

If the Scarface films were part of a serial, then it would be a reboot (if the new film discards the previous films' continuity.)

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Hollywood tried to remake Psycho a decade or so ago with Anne Hesche (sp?) and Vince Vaughn. It bombed, but the point is that it was a remake by the fact that they literally remade Hitchcock's original 60s classic. It was the same characters going through the same plotline in the same setting.

Yeah, that's a shot for shot remake, but again, Carpenter's The Thing is a remake of The Thing from Another World, and the movies had diffrences. But they had the same source material, same ideas, and Carpenter EVEN SAID IT WAS A REMAKE.

Your definition of a remake as being shot for shot is too narrow and doesn't conform to what even the filmmakers like Carpenter and DePalma define as remakes. Reboots only apply to serial films and film franchises.
FendersRule's Avatar FendersRule 01:20 PM 12-05-2011
Wow. Hollywood is out of ideas.
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