Jodorowsky's dune - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 02-16-2012, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting.
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The documentary covers cult film director Alejandro Jodorowsky and his 1974 attempt to create a big-screen adaptation of Frank Herbert's seminal science fiction novel, DUNE. While the ambitious production collapsed after two years, Jodorowsky's team of then relatively unknown concept artists continued exploring the themes and styles started on the project and ended up changing modern science fiction forever: H.R. Giger went on to Ridley Scott's masterpiece ALIEN, Dan O'Bannon wrote ALIEN and TOTAL RECALL, Jean "Moebius" Giraud created artwork and futuristic worlds for THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, TRON, and THE FIFTH ELEMENT and Chris Foss would go on to work on ALIEN and SUPERMAN.

http://www.duneinfo.com/unseen/jodorowskys-dune/
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post #2 of 29 Old 02-16-2012, 05:59 PM
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Wow, thanks for posting that. Looks fascinating.

Imagine the kind of movie that could have been.or could be if we simply fold the space time continuum and give the '74 version of guys the tech of today (and maybe also send Peter Jackson along for the ride).
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post #3 of 29 Old 02-17-2012, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow, thanks for posting that. Looks fascinating.

Imagine the kind of movie that could have been.or could be if we simply fold the space time continuum and give the '74 version of guys the tech of today (and maybe also send Peter Jackson along for the ride).

I love the books and the 80's movie so another version is welcome. The Sci-Fi Channel did some good work there too.
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post #4 of 29 Old 07-13-2014, 03:26 PM
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Watched this film today. Very interesting.


While I've seen the Lynch and Sci-Fi versions, I've never read the books, so take any comments in that context.


This movie is as much about Dune as it is about Jodorowsky: The man, creator, and lastly, filmmaker. A man with a vision, a vision that is really only vaguely outlined in the film, but a what an ambitious vision. Herbert's novel was more or less just the springboard for what Jodorowsky wanted to do. Those expecting a literal or even faithful version would have been deeply disappointed. After all, he picked the title without having read it, nor did some of the contributors ever read it. The story was to be used to somehow change the very consciousness of those seeing the film, providing a transformative catalyst to change the viewers. How exactly that was to be done wasn't discussed all that much in the movie. We know the motive, but not the means. And there were allusions to mind-altering chemicals being used during the conception of the movie that wouldn't necessarily transfer to the typical viewing audience. One wonders how much influence drugs had to play in creative process, and how it may have affected the work and judgment those working on it's development.


What was apparent was that Jodorowsky's vision was contagious. The creative people drawn into the project were devoted to both the man and the film, in an almost cultish attachment. Judging by the few glimpses we get of the production design, that passion seems to have fueled the work they put into the project. One only wonders if what they imagined could have ever been brought to life with the technology available at the time with the budget they were asking for.


Woven among all of this were some amusing and insightful stories of the talents involved. Sadly, most are no longer around, so they couldn't be interviewed for the film. It would have been interesting to see the thoughts of Welles and Dali on the project, for example.


Some of the conclusions at the end of the movie were somewhat far-fetched, and quite a reach with regard to the influence of the movie. Was it not made out of fear, as proposed by Nicolas Winding, or was the prospect of a 10-12 hour long film based on some strange vision by a bizarre director, at a estimated cost of $15 million dollars just way too much of a gamble for the Hollywood movie machine?


Still, it was an interesting, if not fully absorbing, documentary for anyone interested in what might have been. It's actually kind of amazing that the film ever made it as far along as it did, considering how unconventional and ambitiously grand it would have been.


Well worth a rental.


Scott

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post #5 of 29 Old 07-13-2014, 03:54 PM
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I don't have much hope that Dune will ever be done right. The attempts so far made me sort of nauseous. I've read the whole series (five books, right?) so many times and know the story so well that any movie adaptation that would ever actually get done is likely to make me want to run away. Not unlike the LOTRs, which I appreciate in terms of the work and artistry involved in the making of, but really don't care to watch anymore because I just know the books so well (and the mythology behind them.)

Dune, in particular, is a heavy, deep piece of work, with enormous amounts of interior dialogue and situational subtext out the wazoo. It would just be so hard to do as a movie in a way that would make a lover of the books happy.

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post #6 of 29 Old 07-13-2014, 04:04 PM
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I loved the documentary, very engaging and interesting. Like he himself mentioned, it wasn't going to be made for the book lovers and had made quite a few changes to the movie. All that being said it would have been one hell of a movie....of course how could it not be with Floyd doing the sound track
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post #7 of 29 Old 07-14-2014, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
I don't have much hope that Dune will ever be done right. The attempts so far made me sort of nauseous. I've read the whole series (five books, right?) so many times and know the story so well that any movie adaptation that would ever actually get done is likely to make me want to run away. Not unlike the LOTRs, which I appreciate in terms of the work and artistry involved in the making of, but really don't care to watch anymore because I just know the books so well (and the mythology behind them.)

Dune, in particular, is a heavy, deep piece of work, with enormous amounts of interior dialogue and situational subtext out the wazoo. It would just be so hard to do as a movie in a way that would make a lover of the books happy.
Six books in the series by Frank Herbert, and a ton more by his son Brian Herbert. Frank's books are considered 'the' Dune books. Personally I am not interested in seeing another version of Dune, unless done by someone who is as inventive as Jodorowsky or Lynch. Trying to make Dune fit into a standard formula hollywood movie would be terrible. Say what you want about Lynch's Dune, but you have to admit there is nothing quite like it. I could stand a version which uses the books as a springboard for even crazier ideas like Jodowosky's, because that isn't really an adaptation of the book, that is merely using the book as means to a completely different end rather than trying to relate the tale of Dune in film form as told by Herbert.
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post #8 of 29 Old 07-14-2014, 10:00 AM
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I've got this on my Netflix queue, looking forward to seeing it.

I revisited my Dune Blu-ray over the weekend, seems like I always discover some new detail on each viewing.

I'll be interested in seeing Josh Z's comments if and when he watches this.

It would be hard to find someone who is a bigger Dune aficionado than Josh as I was surprised to find out.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/7484...tended_de.html

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post #9 of 29 Old 07-14-2014, 11:32 AM
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I'll have to check this out. A friend from the 60's was in "The Holy Mountain."
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post #10 of 29 Old 07-14-2014, 11:56 AM
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I'll be interested in seeing Josh Z's comments if and when he watches this.
I was supposed to review the Blu-ray but Sony hasn't sent us a screener. I ordered a copy which should be here later this week.

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post #11 of 29 Old 07-14-2014, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
I was supposed to review the Blu-ray but Sony hasn't sent us a screener. I ordered a copy which should be here later this week.
This documentary is certainly worth viewing once and is very interesting - discover the mindset of this particular artist. Available via Netflix in BR.


Jodorwosky didn't like David Lynch's version of Dune and thought that it was a failure, even though he highly admires Lynch.

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post #12 of 29 Old 07-14-2014, 12:43 PM
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I put it on my Netflix queue, should be an interesting watch.

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post #13 of 29 Old 07-15-2014, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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six books in the series by frank herbert, and a ton more by his son brian herbert. Frank's books are considered 'the' dune books. Personally i am not interested in seeing another version of dune, unless done by someone who is as inventive as jodorowsky or lynch. Trying to make dune fit into a standard formula hollywood movie would be terrible. Say what you want about lynch's dune, but you have to admit there is nothing quite like it. I could stand a version which uses the books as a springboard for even crazier ideas like jodowosky's, because that isn't really an adaptation of the book, that is merely using the book as means to a completely different end rather than trying to relate the tale of dune in film form as told by herbert.

give us a movie only about mentats
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post #14 of 29 Old 07-23-2014, 08:46 AM
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Finally watched this documentary. It's... OK. I guess I was expecting a more substantive look at what Jodorowsky actually planned to do and a better explanation for why the project fell apart. This is mostly just a celebration of Jodorowsky as a wacky genius with lots of crazy ideas. While his enthusiasm is infectious, I don't feel like I learned anything beyond a superficial overview of the topic.

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post #15 of 29 Old 07-23-2014, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
Finally watched this documentary. It's... OK. I guess I was expecting a more substantive look at what Jodorowsky actually planned to do and a better explanation for why the project fell apart. This is mostly just a celebration of Jodorowsky as a wacky genius with lots of crazy ideas. While his enthusiasm is infectious, I don't feel like I learned anything beyond a superficial overview of the topic.
Basically have to agree. What impressed me in this documentary was Jodorowsky's abilities as a producer. As a director and actor not so much. I think you need an appreciation of avant-garde films to fully assess Jodorowsky's talents and frankly that's not me. Every avant-garde film I've ever had the displeasure of watching has had me squirming in my seat. Yes, I'm not very cultivated that way.

Jodorowsky's glee in proclaiming Lynch's Dune a failure is understandable after all of those years of pre-production. Yet it was pretty obvious he wasn't going to make Frank Herbert's Dune but something shaped to his own imagination.

I've gained a better appreciation of Lynch's Dune after many years of repeated viewings. Flawed but always watchable and forever part of our cinema history.

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post #16 of 29 Old 07-23-2014, 12:24 PM
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The guy was certainly nuts in one respect, but he did get the attention of some of the great artists
that evolved to Alien and other works. It filled quite a bit of background info for me in that respect.

Dune has always been a "Doomed" project on film or TV. We always have the book
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post #17 of 29 Old 07-28-2014, 10:02 AM
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Finally finished my review:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1235...wskysdune.html

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post #18 of 29 Old 07-30-2014, 09:41 AM
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After reading your review, I'm guessing you're no fan of Drive?
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post #19 of 29 Old 07-30-2014, 12:40 PM
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Nice Work
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post #20 of 29 Old 07-31-2014, 11:15 AM
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After reading your review, I'm guessing you're no fan of Drive?
Not especially. I'd rather watch a real '80s crime thriller than a lame facsimile of one.

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post #21 of 29 Old 08-03-2014, 02:06 PM
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Not especially. I'd rather watch a real '80s crime thriller than a lame facsimile of one.
Many of the 80's crime movies were facsimilies of the 70's crime movies, which were facsimilies of 40's/50's noir, which were facsimilies of 30's Gangster movies and German Expressionism, which .. Nearly every popular movie is an homage to something else, sometimes with a new spin but always using a pre-existing template.
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post #22 of 29 Old 08-03-2014, 02:21 PM
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Many of the 80's crime movies were facsimilies of the 70's crime movies, which were facsimilies of 40's/50's noir, which were facsimilies of 30's Gangster movies and German Expressionism, which .. Nearly every popular movie is an homage to something else, sometimes with a new spin but always using a pre-existing template.
Have you seen Drive? There's a difference between "homage" and plagiarism.

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post #23 of 29 Old 08-03-2014, 05:08 PM
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Have you seen Drive? There's a difference between "homage" and plagiarism.
I have seen it. So what movies did it plagiarize?
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post #24 of 29 Old 08-04-2014, 09:58 AM
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I have seen it. So what movies did it plagiarize?
The Driver by Walter Hill, plus every movie Michael Mann made during the 1980s.

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post #25 of 29 Old 08-04-2014, 10:18 AM
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Seen them, no, they are not plagiarized. Plagiarism is the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own. Drive is a pretty clear about where its influences came from. I doubt you would find anyone who thinks Refn is claiming that the he entirely invented the style in which the movie was made. It is clearly taken from the formalism of Thief and The Driver, not to mention Bullitt, among others. In fact, there aren't many movies as explicit about their source influences, save for Tarantino's work and a few others. Would you call Kill Bill plagiarized?
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post #26 of 29 Old 08-05-2014, 10:44 AM
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Seen them, no, they are not plagiarized. Plagiarism is the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own. Drive is a pretty clear about where its influences came from. I doubt you would find anyone who thinks Refn is claiming that the he entirely invented the style in which the movie was made. It is clearly taken from the formalism of Thief and The Driver, not to mention Bullitt, among others. In fact, there aren't many movies as explicit about their source influences, save for Tarantino's work and a few others. Would you call Kill Bill plagiarized?
I just had this debate on another forum and am not terribly interested in repeating it here. The gist of it is that Tarantino takes bits and pieces of numerous pop culture references and smashes them together to make something entirely his own out of them. When you watch Kill Bill, you can instantly identify it as a Tarantino movie.

Refn, on the other hand, just watches a movie he likes and says, "Hey, I can do that!" Then he makes a copy of that movie. "Michael Mann is so cool! I wanna make a Michael Mann movie!!" He has no artistic voice of his own.

Now that Refn has decided that Jodorowsky is one of his favorite filmmakers, it should come as no surprise that he's in active development of making his own Jodorowsky copycat movie.

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post #27 of 29 Old 08-11-2014, 04:25 AM
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I thought the documentary was quite interesting from several perspectives.



1. That there actually was a different dune movie in planning vs. the David Lynch version. (didn't know that before).
2. That Jodorowsky seemed to be more sane than I thought he would be (El Topo was a "WTF did I just watch" moment).
3. That they would go through all that prep-work without a commited funding, the story board book was quite impressive in itself.
4. That a lot of work from the prep-work ended up as inspiration in other movies.

The bad part was that you didn't get a view into what the movie would have become, except maybe the intro idea.
Other than that it was just bits and pieces.

Worth a rental.



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post #28 of 29 Old 08-11-2014, 04:28 AM
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Great doc that gave a taste of what a proper production of Dune would entail. I wonder who would be in such a cast and crew if such a film were attempted today.

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post #29 of 29 Old 08-11-2014, 11:43 AM
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Great doc that gave a taste of what a proper production of Dune would entail. I wonder who would be in such a cast and crew if such a film were attempted today.
Peter Berg came very close to directing a Dune remake a few years ago. It fell apart before it got as far as casting. I imagine that it would probably have starred Taylor Kitsch and whatever other hot-young-things Hollywood wanted to convince us are the next generation of movie stars.

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