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post #31 of 57 Old 02-22-2012, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Nah, the Manhattan project didn't have regular soldiers anywhere near it, just scientists and generals, and they were all several miles from the Trinity site.

In the 50s they did tests with soldiers too close to the blast, before they moved to underground testing.

Yeah, I'm not sure if it's a mix up in my head between the oppenheimer series and my excerpt described earlier.
But I definately remember that it was a film/movie and not a documentary and that the soldiers were speaking to eachother in the trenches.

21:st century Karate Kid......Logon, Logoff, Logon, Logoff..
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post #32 of 57 Old 02-28-2012, 10:06 AM
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The scariest thing of all: I remember the Cuban Missiles Crisis, the naval blockade around the island, and the scary feeling of being on the edge of global thermonuclear war.

....and I'm feeling it again, as we all hold our breaths and hope that Israel won't nuke Iran, and trigger World War III.

I believe I'll go watch Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb. That worked before to relieve nuclear stress.

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post #33 of 57 Old 03-20-2013, 03:24 PM
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I bought Trinity and Beyond on Blu Ray, for the sole purpose of testing my subwoofers. False advertising by forum members elsewhere that said this movie was good for testing subwoofers. It only has one recorded explosion with actual bomb sounds, the rest of the explosions are set to a musical score. I used to think nuclear explosions where cool looking, but towards the end of this movie I was actually starting to feel nausea, sucks maturing as a human being does it not?

I saw Threads way back in the 1980’s and it had a profound impact on all of us, nasty nasty movie, without a shred of hope or a glimmer for a future. But, I think this movie would be the grand daddy of torture your subwoofer type of movie, just need to check if my player is region free
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post #34 of 57 Old 03-20-2013, 07:23 PM
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You are right, Trinity and Beyond is no sub workout. Billy Shatner is good and the DVD cover art kicks ass.

I just read though this thread and didn't see "Special Bulletin" mentioned. Kind of a Orson style
WOTW with nukes instead of aliens. Worth checking out. It played like a newscast but they
pussed out and ran disclaimers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

The scariest thing of all: I remember the Cuban Missiles Crisis, the naval blockade around the island, and the scary feeling of being on the edge of global thermonuclear war.


I can neither confirm or deny whether I remember the crisis (never pigeonhole your age wink.gif) but if you are interested in that time period, "The Fog of War (2003) Eleven lessons from the life of Robert S McNamara"
is a good watch. I believe you can watch it on ewetoob.

The Cold War is fascinating. Curtis LeMay would have killed us all if he could. Anybody notice how many of these movies were made ~ early eighties?

Ill let you guys in on a little secret, my username Tack is short for Hardtack which is short for Operation Hardtack which was code for some ba boom testing in the late fifties.
Don't tell anybody because people think you named yourself after a cracker. I shortened it to tack in the late 90s.

Plus, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and **** like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.

Hey two threads in one wink.gif
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post #35 of 57 Old 03-21-2013, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

"The Fog of War (2003) Eleven lessons from the life of Robert S McNamara"
is a good watch. I believe you can watch it on ewetoob.

The Cold War is fascinating. Curtis LeMay would have killed us all if he could.

Fog is a great watch if you're in the mood to dial in. I see Rumsfeld flash over his face when I watch it.
LeMay? Yep, a real deal nutbag. Kubrick nailed it wink.gif
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post #36 of 57 Old 03-22-2013, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Tack View Post


I just read though this thread and didn't see "Special Bulletin" mentioned. Kind of a Orson style
WOTW with nukes instead of aliens. Worth checking out. It played like a newscast but they
pussed out and ran disclaimers.

I can't remember if I've seen Special Bulletin or not. The only thing I could find was a youtube download that looks like it's from the VHS tape. Hopefully it won't look too bad on my TV via my laptop.

larry

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post #37 of 57 Old 03-22-2013, 08:42 AM
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Now that the search engine has been fixed, I found the old thread I was talking about earlier (and I had started it).

http://www.avsforum.com/t/711656/doomsday-movies/0_50

I'm thinking about merging the two threads...

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post #38 of 57 Old 03-24-2013, 08:37 PM
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The original Godzilla.....aka Gojira, with English subtitles on DVD/bluray by Criterion.
Released in Japan in 1954, less than a decade after Heroshima/Nagasaki.
Seen from Japan's viewpoint and a warning to the world of the dangers of atomic bomb testing, it is a dark film.....very different from the USA version with added scenes and storyline with Raymond Burr.

The inventor of the oxygen destroyer, Dr. Sarazawa, takes his secret to the grave, as he destroys Gojira, and himself, so that no others could duplicate the formula for destruction.

One wonders how the world would be different if the scientists that discovered the secret of 'the bomb' had destroyed their documents and all committed suicide so that it could never be unleashed on mankind again.
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post #39 of 57 Old 03-25-2013, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by JSUL View Post

One wonders how the world would be different if the scientists that discovered the secret of 'the bomb' had destroyed their documents and all committed suicide so that it could never be unleashed on mankind again.

If one group of scientists could do it, another would replicate their efforts eventually. Once a tipping point has been achieved and you've proven that something can be done, there's no going back.

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post #40 of 57 Old 03-25-2013, 03:10 PM
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Agree....for all the good there is in science and technology, there are elements of bad that must be dealt with.
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post #41 of 57 Old 05-30-2014, 09:03 AM
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I am here for the radiation of discourse.

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let the fun begin!

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post #42 of 57 Old 05-30-2014, 09:28 AM
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I am here for the radiation of discourse.

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let the fun begin!

Hey there. I just re-read both pages. Good discussion. I'm not sure I have much more to say. Although I spent my second career making narrative features and TV, I think that history, whether documentary films or books, can be particularly enlightening. The subject is so vast, that a movie that strives to be historically accurate risks being too shallow on detail (13 Days ... which I worked on), or so caught up in an agenda that it loses credibility. That is why that Richard Rhodes' books which use such exhaustive documentation are my go-to resources.

Somebody above suggested mandatory viewing or reading of a movie or book on the subject. I would support a "mandatory" high school-level course that uses Rhodes' books as the historical source. The problem I would have is one I have with many educators these days; they can't resist their impulse to impose/teach a subjective opinion with regards to anything remotely political. The facts on this subject should be more than adequate to make the right impressions. Every generation needs to have a very strong knowledge of this history, lest if be forgotten and threaten us again.
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post #43 of 57 Old 05-30-2014, 10:37 AM
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I worry about the threat of nuclear conflict on some level for several reasons today:

1. An uniformed/uninterested/poorly educated populace. We've all seen the "humorous" street interviews on late night TV and other places where people are asked basic questions of civics and current events ... and are clearly clueless. How vulnerable are they .. or is it "we?"

2. A Russian leader who bitterly regrets the collapse of the Soviet Union, and who clearly has some level of expansionist intentions, and who has a modernized strategic nuclear arsenal, and is testing improved ICBMs.

3. An American/western foreign policy that is not exactly easy to define for us, much less ambitious or dedicated potential or real enemies. This could possibly be misunderstood as a decisive opinion of the current administration. Not true. Military members are not allowed (by regulation) to be political advocates. It is not wise for military members to become attached one way or another to policy because they may well become instruments of that policy. On the other hand, military members do develop opinions about leaders and their character, leadership, courage, manner and effectiveness of governance, and executive effectiveness. Having served under five administrations, I'll confess comparisons are made. But no leader gets a free ride. They all falter. Regardless, if called, military members must answer. FWIW smile.gif

4. A failure of the U.S. to modernize its nuclear arsenal for the sake of safety, defend against sabotage, and maintain readiness to deter aggression.

5. Although relating to #3 above, a failure of the U.S. to effectively lead/pursue further reduction of nuclear weapons arsenals. This and #4 have been linked somewhat in proposed legislation to modernize the arsenal ... that I don't think has gone anywhere.

6. The threat of sophisticated terrorism to acquire nuclear weapon capability, whether state-sponsored, theo-political, or "home-grown."

7. The perversion of congressional legislative process in the form of obstructionism by all. On one hand there is too much "no" with no adequate alternative, and on the other a senate where nothing in permitted to be brought to the floor for debate, much less amendment or a vote. IMHO, debate, amendment, and a vote must be permitted. Let the pieces fall where they will.

I don't pretend to have black and white answers or views. As a veteran, I am sort of conditioned to be "independent." I want to hear what everybody has to say, then reach some reasonable conclusions. I just worry a bit that a lot of folks have gotten a little too comfortable and uninterested.

Now back to my home theater! biggrin.giftongue.gifredface.gif
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post #44 of 57 Old 07-09-2014, 04:24 PM
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As long as we're mentioning everything with a nuclear war theme (and I've seen them all),
how about "Miracle Mile" starring Anthony Edwards and Mare Winningham. Some scenes
are downright chilling, including the ending, IMO.
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post #45 of 57 Old 07-10-2014, 04:18 AM
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^^^ That's a long time pet favorite of mine. There are some chilling scenes, especially for those of us that are old enough to have had "duck and cover" drills in grade school.

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
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post #46 of 57 Old 07-10-2014, 07:16 AM
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As long as we're mentioning everything with a nuclear war theme (and I've seen them all),
how about "Miracle Mile"
About that guy running in prison?

Just read the plot on MM. Never even heard of it till now. Seems like one I'd really like so I may have to check it out.

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Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #47 of 57 Old 07-10-2014, 08:19 AM
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About that guy running in prison?
That was The Jericho Mile starring Peter Strauss.

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Originally Posted by sb1
Just read the plot on MM. Never even heard of it till now. Seems like one I'd really like so I may have to check it out.
Ditto on that. Never heard of it 'till now.
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post #48 of 57 Old 07-10-2014, 11:51 AM
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Anyone mention How I Live Now? Although I don't think it specifically says nuclear we are led to think to that. At any rate it's a really good flick.
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post #49 of 57 Old 07-11-2014, 03:39 AM
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Miracle Mile, great movie which deserves to be better known. Do not go in expecting a disaster movie, it is more of a 80's night escapade movie, a la After Hours, with a twist at the end. Very 80's.

Another couple of good war movies I haven't seen mentioned in this thread yet is By Dawn's Early Light and Special Bulletin. For me though, the most powerful is Testament, although the most horrifying is Threads, of course.
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post #50 of 57 Old 07-11-2014, 08:04 AM
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How about Red Dawn? No nukes, but it was close. Damn what a realistic war movie. I often awaken at night, fearful of the possible invasion. Then I realize there's a high school just up the road, and I quickly fall back asleep.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #51 of 57 Old 07-11-2014, 09:08 AM
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How about Red Dawn? No nukes, but it was close. Damn what a realistic war movie. I often awaken at night, fearful of the possible invasion. Then I realize there's a high school just up the road, and I quickly fall back asleep.
I love that flick and that it's so farfetched it isn't.

Also I have never yelled AVENGE ME through the baby gate to my kid. Never.
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post #52 of 57 Old 07-11-2014, 11:58 AM
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Also I have never yelled AVENGE ME through the baby gate to my kid. Never.
Well, not yet.
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post #53 of 57 Old 08-29-2014, 06:17 AM
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Watched a post/mid apocalypse flick last night that those here might enjoy.

The Rover. Guy Pearce and Robert Pattinson
Much like Max Headroom takes place 20 minutes into the future The Rover takes place two blocks over from Mad Max. It's a dirty, slow, non Hollywood film with 60 logos in the opening credits so the normals will hate it. It's basically a revenge tale set in a post collapse Australia where the lead (Guy) tracks down some thugs who stole his car. He's accompanied by Pattinson who plays Arnie Grape to Guy's Mad Max and is really quite good. It's a low dialogue flick that saves the speaking parts to flesh out the two travelers and by the end it's told you a beautiful story punctuated with violence that I hope doesn't get spoiled before you watch.


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post #54 of 57 Old 08-29-2014, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post
I worry about the threat of nuclear conflict on some level for several reasons today:
All the fears you listed are patently absurd, those nukes launching scenarios would of already happened in the 1950's if they where a real danger. I am sure some would try to absurdly claim things are different now but they are not or present pure propaganda as fact.

Mutually assured destruction is the actual reason it did not happen in the 1950's and is the reason it does not happen today or in the future. Now if you are worried about winning a nuclear war well go see your doctor.

Last edited by wuther; 08-29-2014 at 04:31 PM.
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post #55 of 57 Old 08-29-2014, 07:14 PM
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All the fears you listed are patently absurd, those nukes launching scenarios would of already happened in the 1950's if they where a real danger. I am sure some would try to absurdly claim things are different now but they are not or present pure propaganda as fact.

Mutually assured destruction is the actual reason it did not happen in the 1950's and is the reason it does not happen today or in the future. Now if you are worried about winning a nuclear war well go see your doctor.
Well, what a ... gentlemanly response! You've only blown steam here. How about some history or facts to back up your views?

You are correct that Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) became the foundation of the superpower nuclear warfare doctrine, and presumably holds things in check to this day. MAD was not a defining doctrine until the late 50s. In the mid-50s, it is clear from the extensive declassified materials, including hours of Nevada Test Site air burst nuclear test films, that we clearly thought that the next wars were going to be fought with nukes.

The initial catalyst for the MAD doctrine was Castle Bravo. That caught everybody; us, the Soviets, and the world by surprise. It frankly scared everybody just a little. With the escalation of high production rates of high yield weapons, and the U.S.'s demonstration of operational capability to deliver them in rapid succession (for a period in the late 50s, B-52s were air dropping high yield test weapons in the Bikini Atoll at a rate of at least three per week), it became apparent to all that full-on nuclear conflict with weapons of that scale would easily and quickly render the planet uninhabitable. Hence, MAD became somewhat logical to accept.

But the world and the nuclear weapons have changed, partly due to treaty, partly due to the difficulty and expense of maintaining an aging arsenal, but certainly due to nuclear weapon technology proliferation and ambitious parties. There are no more "city buster" scale weapons such as the 9 megaton B53 (the same fission package as the warhead in the Titan 2 ICBM destroyed by the end of '82). But there are lots of smaller yield weapons. MAD was designed to deter global nuclear war. Who is to say that "global" is necessary to mortally cripple a country or society now without rendering the planet uninhabitable? How many would it take to cripple or collapse a country and break its will? Could it be done with one with the threat of more?

The key word in MAD is "mutual." Will every president/leader who holds the office choose to respond with a full nuclear strike as suggested in the MAD doctrine? Will every situation warrant that? The presumption has always been that MAD would deter a massive full-on nuclear assault. What if the attack was limited? What would the response be? Can we say "Fail Safe"? Study the Yeltsin/Norwegian Rocket Incident. Yeltsin could have launched, but didn't, thank God.

MAD may be a doctrine that is only effective in deterring global nuclear war between superpowers. What if ... an ambitious, unscrupulous entity decided that a well placed little surprise nuke or two in the U.S. could eliminate us from world economic and strategic competition? What if "they" felt they could call the MAD bluff on the U.S.; that we really wouldn't embrace it?

My original post and this one is just to spur thought and discussion. You, sir, seem willing to do neither on the subject. Seems mimicking the behavior of ostriches would not be prudent.

May I suggest for historical reference Richard Rhodes' two exhaustively detailed and excellent books, The Making of the Atomic Bomb and Dark Sun which span the geopolitical and technical history of the development of nuclear weapons, strategic nuclear doctrine, and the use or non-use through the 40s and up through the Cuban Missile Crisis. His documentation of events throughout the books is astounding ... and frightening. We're all lucky to still be here. I just think that to look the other way, believing that MAD will always be an effective deterrent, is ... not wise. We're far better off keeping such things in our discussions and planning.

Last edited by Cam Man; 08-29-2014 at 07:18 PM.
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post #56 of 57 Old 08-30-2014, 06:42 AM
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Well, what a ... gentlemanly response! You've only blown steam here. How about some history or facts to back up your views?
The only facts I will ever present is that we are still alive and no nukes have been launched since WWII which is the direct result of MAD and MAD defeats all your scenarios. To all your scenarios even the bizarre ones the answer I give which totally defeats them is MAD, MAD, MAD.

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Who is to say that "global" is necessary to mortally cripple a country or society now without rendering the planet uninhabitable? How many would it take to cripple or collapse a country and break its will? Could it be done with one with the threat of more?
Like your other post this is alluding to worrying about 'winning' a nuclear war. It's the same as worrying about other just as realistic 'gap' threats as a Hemispheric Electromagnetic Detonation, Cobalt Thorium G, Atmospheric Igniters and of course the ever present Extraterrestrial Invasion gap.

Go ahead and have fun with more absurdest scenarios but I am not going into a back and forth with you over such ludicrously.
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post #57 of 57 Old 08-30-2014, 07:19 AM
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The only facts I will ever present is that we are still alive and no nukes have been launched since WWII which is the direct result of MAD and MAD defeats all your scenarios. To all your scenarios even the bizarre ones the answer I give which totally defeats them is MAD, MAD, MAD.

Like your other post this is alluding to worrying about 'winning' a nuclear war. It's the same as worrying about other just as realistic 'gap' threats as a Hemispheric Electromagnetic Detonation, Cobalt Thorium G, Atmospheric Igniters and of course the ever present Extraterrestrial Invasion gap.

Go ahead and have fun with more absurdest scenarios but I am not going into a back and forth with you over such ludicrously.
Maybe I trust leaders to continue to embrace MAD less than you. Thank goodness there are those who proactively consider what could be ... and plan and advise leaders to make sure that it never happens. I don't know if they consider it "fun". I doubt it.

You respond as if this is a debate rather than a discussion or brainstorming session. If you only wish to go "back and forth" and denigrate, then we will all be happier if you choose to not participate.
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