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post #181 of 472 Old 06-18-2012, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

The corporate people said that they'd never encountered an alien life form that matches Ripley's description in any of their colonies, not that they'd never encountered alien life at all.

One thing is certain, "The Company" never has had a history of lying...biggrin.gif


FWIW Josh, I read your review at the other site.
You bring up some valid points, most particularly that the actions of the scientists were as scientific as the actions of my kittycat.rolleyes.giffrown.gif
IMO, this is the one major flaw in the movie.
Many of points you have raised in the review have since been answered by the posts of others here and elsewhere.

Although not a masterpiece, Prometheus is a fine (and stirring) sci-fi.
My 8 farthings.wink.gif

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post #182 of 472 Old 06-18-2012, 04:04 PM
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Good stuff.

Thanks for the link..
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post #183 of 472 Old 06-18-2012, 04:37 PM
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Thanx, but what does the article have to do with me specifically?

"It's a puzzlement that the aliens, once awakened, immediately go into attack mode, trying to kill their human visitors in all manner of unpleasant ways. Did they have a meeting on their home planet and agree, "Once we seed Earth, let's build an outpost on LV-423, and if the Earthlings ever get that far, let's wipe them out.""

When Ebert says "aliens", I'm not sure whether he means the engineers or large worms, but in either case their attacks aren't puzzling.

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post #184 of 472 Old 06-18-2012, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

One thing is certain, "The Company" never has had a history of lying...biggrin.gif

FWIW Josh, I read your review at the other site.
You bring up some valid points, most particularly that the actions of the scientists were as scientific as the actions of my kittycat.rolleyes.giffrown.gif
IMO, this is the one major flaw in the movie.
Many of points you have raised in the review have since been answered by the posts of others here and elsewhere.
Although not a masterpiece, Prometheus is a fine (and stirring) sci-fi.
My 8 farthings.wink.gif

Agreed. Why don't directors have proof readers? biggrin.gif So many stupid things could be cleaned up to make the movie roll on more believably.

A funny note, I watched Alien 4 the other night and when the credits rolled I saw the writer was none other than Joss Whedon.

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post #185 of 472 Old 06-18-2012, 05:45 PM
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ok this movie is starting to get to me. not this creationism stuff, but unexplained actions in the movie.

why does elizabeth get infected with an alien embryo after having sex with her bf, after david infects him with a substance
that turns him into an engineer?

so transforming into an engineer begets alien infection through intimacy?
why doesn't she just turn into an engineer as well if she was infected by her bf?

and how many forms do proto-aliens take?

we're familiar with the crab like one with acid blood that clings to your face and implants an embryo in your digestive tract,
but the brilliant scientists who couldn't find their way out of the pyramid despite having something akin to a gps device, were infected by
a worm/slug like creature that jumped down his throat. what are those and why are they different? they don't appear to be the same
creature that bursts through your chest after gestation.

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post #186 of 472 Old 06-18-2012, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

ok this movie is starting to get to me. not this creationism stuff, but unexplained actions in the movie.
The movie doesn't tackle creationism, as in an Abrahamic God creating the entire universe (including us), but instead limits its scope to something smaller and simpler: engineers seeded our planet and others, starting a chemical chain reaction that eventually results in humans. It's not like they created the planet itself. This is closer in premise to the 'Chariots of the Gods' books from the '70s (our gods were really ancient astronauts), as well as movies like 'Mission to Mars' or even the opening line from 'Battlestar Galactica' ("there are those who believe that life here began out there"). I don't feel the premise is more profound than that: humans on this planet were a result of seeding by humans from another planet.
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why does elizabeth get infected with an alien embryo after having sex with her bf, after david infects him with a substance that turns him into an engineer?
It doesn't turn him into an engineer. Holloway got infected with a tiny amount of black goo, which (as we saw at the begining of the film) attacks the host on a genetic level (which would include sperm). Charlie transfers that infection into Elizabeth's egg.
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and how many forms do proto-aliens take?
As many forms as animals on our planet.
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the brilliant scientists who couldn't find their way out of the pyramid despite having something akin to a gps device, were infected by a worm/slug like creature that jumped down his throat. what are those and why are they different?
Those are the results of worms getting infected with the black goo. They're different from other aliens just as mutated roaches are different from mutated cows.
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they don't appear to be the same creature that bursts through your chest after gestation.
Different movie, different alien.

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post #187 of 472 Old 06-18-2012, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

The movie doesn't tackle creationism, as in an Abrahamic God creating the entire universe (including us), but instead limits its scope to something smaller and simpler: engineers seeded our planet and others, starting a chemical chain reaction that eventually results in humans. It's not like they created the planet itself. This is closer in premise to the 'Chariots of the Gods' books from the '70s (our gods were really ancient astronauts), as well as movies like 'Mission to Mars' or even the opening line from 'Battlestar Galactica' ("there are those who believe that life here began out there"). I don't feel the premise is more profound than that: humans on this planet were a result of seeding by humans from another planet
I must say I've never been impressed by the Chariots of the Gods concept. Von Daniken's book is full of faulty reasoning and misstatements in order to support his sensationalist thesis. The concept itself is unsatisfying because it answers nothing. It just passes the buck to another location.
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post #188 of 472 Old 06-18-2012, 06:34 PM
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I must say I've never been impressed by the Chariots of the Gods concept. Von Daniken's book is full of faulty reasoning and misstatements in order to support his sensationalist thesis. The concept itself is unsatisfying because it answers nothing. It just passes the buck to another location.
Exactly, replacing a fairy tale with a fairy tale doesn't get you very far. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a brilliant symbolic representation of this problem.
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post #189 of 472 Old 06-18-2012, 07:12 PM
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The concept itself is unsatisfying because it answers nothing. It just passes the buck to another location.
Which is what this movie does. Imagine someone hinting that they'll show you your creator, only for you to discover that by "your creator" they meant "your parent". While technically not inaccurate, it doesn't answer much. At some point you're going to ask who made them (which Shaw does ask in the film).

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post #190 of 472 Old 06-19-2012, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

A funny note, I watched Alien 4 the other night and when the credits rolled I saw the writer was none other than Joss Whedon.
A4 is/was unfairly beaten up.
I like it for what it is: entertaining.

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Which is what this movie does. Imagine someone hinting that they'll show you your creator, only for you to discover that by "your creator" they meant "your parent". While technically not inaccurate, it doesn't answer much. At some point you're going to ask who made them (which Shaw does ask in the film).
In case you are unaware, Prometheus was originally conceived as a "2 parter."
A lot of folks either forget or are not aware of this.
R.S. makes it very plain, at the end of this movie, there is more to the story.wink.gif

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post #191 of 472 Old 06-19-2012, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

The movie doesn't tackle creationism, as in an Abrahamic God creating the entire universe (including us), but instead limits its scope to something smaller and simpler: engineers seeded our planet and others, starting a chemical chain reaction that eventually results in humans. It's not like they created the planet itself. This is closer in premise to the 'Chariots of the Gods' books from the '70s (our gods were really ancient astronauts), as well as movies like 'Mission to Mars' or even the opening line from 'Battlestar Galactica' ("there are those who believe that life here began out there"). I don't feel the premise is more profound than that: humans on this planet were a result of seeding by humans from another planet. It doesn't turn him into an engineer. Holloway got infected with a tiny amount of black goo, which (as we saw at the begining of the film) attacks the host on a genetic level (which would include sperm). Charlie transfers that infection into Elizabeth's egg. As many forms as animals on our planet. Those are the results of worms getting infected with the black goo. They're different from other aliens just as mutated roaches are different from mutated cows. Different movie, different alien.

thanks, i'm taking you to the movie next time i see it.

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post #192 of 472 Old 06-19-2012, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

A4 is/was unfairly beaten up.
I like it for what it is: entertaining.
In case you are unaware, Prometheus was originally conceived as a "2 parter."
A lot of folks either forget or are not aware of this.
R.S. makes it very plain, at the end of this movie, there is more to the story.wink.gif
Maybe they are saving the entire story, script and good actors for the next movie.
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post #193 of 472 Old 06-19-2012, 06:30 PM
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Maybe they are saving the entire story, script and good actors for the next movie.
LOL, yeah, you could be right.tongue.gif

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post #194 of 472 Old 06-19-2012, 09:54 PM
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Red Letter Media does Prometheus:
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post #195 of 472 Old 06-19-2012, 11:06 PM
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Perfect. As I said: not exactly a movie that rewards too much thinking about it :-)
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post #196 of 472 Old 06-20-2012, 01:46 AM
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Perfect. As I said: not exactly a movie that rewards too much thinking about it :-)
Rich, I think you are being too harsh here...wink.gif

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post #197 of 472 Old 06-20-2012, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Holloway got infected with a tiny amount of black goo, which (as we saw at the beginning of the film) attacks the host on a genetic level (which would include sperm). Charlie transfers that infection into Elizabeth's egg.

This is not a normal sperm and egg conception. Charlie's sperm may have been mutated or the organism may have just included itself into the semen. It was established beforehand that Shaw was incapable of having children which possibly meant no egg was present. The organism was introduced into the vagina/uterus by the penis much like the face-hugger introducing the organism into the victim's stomach cavity. Once the organism has established itself in the host it is free to grow at an exponential rate using the victim's body as an energy source.
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post #198 of 472 Old 06-20-2012, 09:16 AM
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Another possibility is that the black goo can grow on its own - remember what attacked the biologist.
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post #199 of 472 Old 06-20-2012, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

This is not a normal sperm and egg conception. Charlie's sperm may have been mutated or the organism may have just included itself into the semen. It was established beforehand that Shaw was incapable of having children which possibly meant no egg was present. The organism was introduced into the vagina/uterus by the penis much like the face-hugger introducing the organism into the victim's stomach cavity. Once the organism has established itself in the host it is free to grow at an exponential rate using the victim's body as an energy source.
+1

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Another possibility is that the black goo can grow on its own - remember what attacked the biologist.
+2

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post #200 of 472 Old 06-20-2012, 10:54 AM
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It was established beforehand that Shaw was incapable of having children which possibly meant no egg was present.
You're right, there could be any number of reasons she can't have children: I was thinking inability to take the fetus to term, but she could have lacked viable eggs. So her "pregnancy" need not have been the sperm/egg variety, any more than the last engineer was "pregnant" at the end of the movie. Though that does call into question how David knew she was "three months" pregnant. But that could just be sloppy writing.

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post #201 of 472 Old 06-20-2012, 11:04 AM
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Another possibility is that the black goo can grow on its own - remember what attacked the biologist.
I thought the black goo always worked through a host. When they first walk into the room, all the goo is contained in the jars; nothing has leaked out. The conditions of the room keep things practically in stasis (like the engineer's severed head). Upon entering the room, we see tiny maggots in David's foot prints (I don't know if they were already there or if David brought them in from the outside, but it doesn't matter). The next time we see the maggots, the black goo has made them grow to the size of earthworms. A little after that, the earthworms have grown into arm-length serpents. And that's what attacks the two scientests, not the liquid itself.
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post #202 of 472 Old 06-20-2012, 05:15 PM
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I thought the black goo always worked through a host. When they first walk into the room, all the goo is contained in the jars; nothing has leaked out. The conditions of the room keep things practically in stasis (like the engineer's severed head). Upon entering the room, we see tiny maggots in David's foot prints (I don't know if they were already there or if David brought them in from the outside, but it doesn't matter). The next time we see the maggots, the black goo has made them grow to the size of earthworms. A little after that, the earthworms have grown into arm-length serpents. And that's what attacks the two scientests, not the liquid itself.

I may have to see this a fourth time and probably will. I didn't for a moment think that the liquid attacked the two scientists. I did see the small worms appear on the ground as one of the landing party walked onto the ground. As to where the worms came from, I don't know. But my point was that the lovely creature that appeared out of the goo came about with out a host. No point in speculating how that happened, but would consider it unlikely that the landing party introduced anything into the cave. But in hindsight, all bets are off because the scientists & landing party could have introduced something when they took off their helmets, whether that something was a biological agent or just some sort of sensory cue to bring about those worms.
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post #203 of 472 Old 06-20-2012, 05:16 PM
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not sure which hole i want an alien embryo to implant itself in me.

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post #204 of 472 Old 06-20-2012, 05:20 PM
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not sure which hole i want an alien embryo to implant itself in me.

Could be through the ear as in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.
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post #205 of 472 Old 06-20-2012, 07:25 PM
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I may have to see this a fourth time and probably will.
I'll join you, for my fourth time.
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But my point was that the lovely creature that appeared out of the goo came about with out a host.
They were the hosts (for the black goo), just as Charlie was a host.

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post #206 of 472 Old 06-20-2012, 07:48 PM
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This is not a normal sperm and egg conception. Charlie's sperm may have been mutated or the organism may have just included itself into the semen. It was established beforehand that Shaw was incapable of having children which possibly meant no egg was present. The organism was introduced into the vagina/uterus by the penis much like the face-hugger introducing the organism into the victim's stomach cavity. Once the organism has established itself in the host it is free to grow at an exponential rate using the victim's body as an energy source.

Holloway ingested the drink spiked with the black goo. Human body plays host to a bunch of microbes at any given time. One of these microbes might have mutated due to the black goo. We see a shot of a tiny tentacle/tail stick out of Holloway's eyeball - which could be the then tiny mutant bug trying to escape out of his body. It might have then passed into his blood stream, and transferred into Shaw's body during the intercourse. Once inside her body for a couple of hours or a day, the critter grows to the size of the squid that Shaw eventually yanks out of her belly.
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Another possibility is that the black goo can grow on its own - remember what attacked the biologist.
Same logic goes to the the worms that might have been mutated from small microorganism size into maggots and then into earthworm size and finally into the size of a snake. The bugs might have come from the host planet itself, or might have been carried over from the earth.
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post #207 of 472 Old 06-21-2012, 09:46 AM
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What David said to the engineer....
"Courtesy of Prometheus' linguist teacher Dr. Anil Biltoo, of the SOAS Language Centre in London, this is what David said in Engineer-ese, translated into English:

"This man is here because he does not want to die. He believes you can give him more life."
Apparently, the question was part of a longer conversation that ended up on the cutting room floor—all of which would still have been shown without subtitles at Scott's insistence, had it made the theatrical version. Who knows, it could all show up in the Blu-ray release and we can see it for ourselves, but we'll have to wait and see."

http://blastr.com/2012/06/we-finally-know-what-davi.php
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post #208 of 472 Old 06-21-2012, 09:55 AM
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What David said to the engineer....
"Courtesy of Prometheus' linguist teacher Dr. Anil Biltoo, of the SOAS Language Centre in London, this is what David said in Engineer-ese, translated into English:
"This man is here because he does not want to die. He believes you can give him more life."
Apparently, the question was part of a longer conversation that ended up on the cutting room floor—all of which would still have been shown without subtitles at Scott's insistence, had it made the theatrical version. Who knows, it could all show up in the Blu-ray release and we can see it for ourselves, but we'll have to wait and see."
http://blastr.com/2012/06/we-finally-know-what-davi.php

Fantastic that is pretty cool, I though the language was made up, or different languages all thrown in to avoid ever knowing what David truly said.

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post #209 of 472 Old 06-21-2012, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by derek View Post

What David said to the engineer....
"Courtesy of Prometheus' linguist teacher Dr. Anil Biltoo, of the SOAS Language Centre in London, this is what David said in Engineer-ese, translated into English:
"This man is here because he does not want to die. He believes you can give him more life."
Apparently, the question was part of a longer conversation that ended up on the cutting room floor—all of which would still have been shown without subtitles at Scott's insistence, had it made the theatrical version. Who knows, it could all show up in the Blu-ray release and we can see it for ourselves, but we'll have to wait and see."
http://blastr.com/2012/06/we-finally-know-what-davi.php

I like to think he said "How you like me now?"
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post #210 of 472 Old 06-21-2012, 10:02 AM
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How do we know David got the translation right, maybe it sounded like gibberish to the Engineer? Or it came out "Could you kill us all, starting with me?"
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