“Prometheus” sequel due out in 2014 or 2015 - Page 18 - AVS Forum
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post #511 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by greenjp View Post
Suffice it to say your analysis provided in the other thread wasn't as clever or convincing as you believe it to be. Call me biased all you want, just acknowledge your own too.
Have you seen this movie multiple times to better acquaint yourself about the details that I'm referring to? If not, I suggest you take time to do so, otherwise you are conjecturing too.
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The sum total of the evidence (tremendous cost, long time, potential risk, etc) suggests that there should have been a competent team assembled for the operation. Quoting from the other thread, "There's a slight clue that possibly she wanted to sabotage this mission to make Peter Wayland live longer when she said, 'Son of a bitch, they were right'." and "...she would rather not see this mission go well so she "personally hired" the scientists of certain caliber." You got two things right - it's a "slight clue" at best and "possibly" is a generous probability.
The word "possibly" leaves the door open for other options too, one of which she didn't care for the positive turn out of this mission.
Possibility on why the company would hire such buffoons or desperate ones for this mission has been discussed long time ago on Prometheus thread. One was the secrecy of mission and the other was time lost from suspended animation which would amount to 4 years if the round trip was made.
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I see that dialogue as a simple declaration of surprise (there's that pesky individual interpretation of imperfect information again). She thought they were full of it going in but that doesn't suggest, to me, that she'd have actively worked to sabotage it. And if she was trying to sabotage it, hiring a couple buffoons for those roles seems a very roundabout way to do it. Indeed what harm could the biologist and geologist do to the mission if she was right about Shaw & co being wrong? They wouldn't have found anything for those two to even look at! So I put your theory in the same category as Space Jesus - don't think it's true, and if somehow it is it makes the movie even worse than I thought.
This tells me that you haven't re-watched the scenes in discussion. You should try because there's a lot more in those than what I can write here.
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post #512 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 02:26 PM
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No,you're guessing that I didn't read your posts. You're wrong.
You don't even understand what I replied about. I pointed out that you accused my argument being faulty along with the movie but you showed no evidence. Show me the evidence that it is faulty if you've got any.
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post #513 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 02:40 PM
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I pointed out that you accused my argument being faulty along with the movie but you showed no evidence. Show me the evidence that it is faulty if you've got any.
Where do you get the idea that I have any need to or have any interest in demonstrating anything to you? I've made my determination, and none of your "prove it to me" whining will change it.
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post #514 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
I just find it amusing that someone would actually argue that the characters in Prometheus are supposed to be idiots intentionally, as if that somehow made it a better movie, and not an exponentially even worse one.

What he's basically saying is that the writers of the movie assume that the audience will be comprised only of braindead, drooling morons, and so they've written all the characters to likewise be brain-dead, drooling morons - you know, so the dumbasses in the audience can relate to them better.
Josh, who directed that flick? ...Ridley Scott, that's who. ...He invented these characters, and gave them life of their own. ...Once, there was a script, and a vision, and with drawings, and all put together from the hands of a visionary, a filmmaker, a movie director with an eye for compositions, a cameraman.

I totally understand what you're saying, and have no problem whatsoever with it; it's your own vision, yours only as a viewer, a critic, a human being who feels and reacts to what he sees.

Your vision is unique, and mainly your own. You can try to communicate it, and you can try to convince us all; good luck I'd say to you, because me too I have my own vision...comprende amigo.
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post #515 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 02:55 PM
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Furthermore; if and when Ridley will see the high level of intellectual quotient in all the masses of public movie viewers from all around the world, that'll be the day.
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post #516 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 03:13 PM
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'Prometheus' the movie; we can talk about.
'Promethus 2' the sequel; we can fantasise about.

Our views of them movies, are just that; our own views.
And that; we cannot criticise the viewer, but his view.
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post #517 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertR View Post
Where do you get the idea that I have any need to or have any interest in demonstrating anything to you? I've made my determination, and none of your "prove it to me" whining will change it.
In that case, you shouldn't have any problems when I called out your action for what it is, a conjecture. Then why get all defensive about it like you did here. You've made your determination and you could have just gone on your way.
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post #518 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Your vision is unique, and mainly your own. You can try to communicate it, and you can try to convince us all; good luck I'd say to you, because me too I have my own vision...comprende amigo.
+1
However, in his mind, his counts more than that of others.
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post #519 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post
In that case, you shouldn't have any problems when I called out your action for what it is, a conjecture.
Labeling it "conjecture" doesn't make it so (I already told you I read your posts), nor does it improve your argument. Neither does using the lame tactic of labeling posts that describe your arguments as "defensive".

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You've made your determination and you could have just gone on your way.
It's you who have made hundreds of posts on this subject, not me.

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post #520 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertR View Post
Labeling it "conjecture" doesn't make it so (I already told you I read your posts), nor does it improve your argument.
Why do you care? You've already made your determination based on ***. Unable to move on? Gee, I wonder why...
I've made my determination too. I call it conjecture based on the definition in the dictionary.


*** Something so secret that he isn't going to disclose it.
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post #521 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 04:26 PM
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However, it is imperative that all our visions together coincide with the movie director's own vision.
That way we can all stand on firmer ground.
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post #522 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
However, it is imperative that all our visions together coincide with the movie director's own vision.
Nah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. Besides, how do we know his (Scott) vision is on the disc? Maybe he hates it. Wouldn't be the first time. He was never happy with Blade Runner hence the heavily modified Directors cut.

Brian Helgeland couldn't stand "Payback" the way it was and so released "Payback - Straight Up", which was hugely different than the original. The list goes on.

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post #523 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 06:50 PM
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Nah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. Besides, how do we know his (Scott) vision is on the disc? Maybe he hates it. Wouldn't be the first time. He was never happy with Blade Runner hence the heavily modified Directors cut.

Brian Helgeland couldn't stand "Payback" the way it was and so released "Payback - Straight Up", which was hugely different than the original. The list goes on.

Which pertains to the discussion of this hellborn atrocity of a film. The criticisms spewed forth from our collective fingers can, at this moment until we know better, only be of the finished product itself. We don't know what happened to force the final product to be released the way it was. Studio pressure, deadlines, etc. Scott may come out years later and admit he didn't like it and that everything many of us have been bitching about was, in fact, effed up in his eyes too.

Or it was all Scott and he's lost his damn mind. Which may or may not have happened years ago.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #524 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post
Have you seen this movie multiple times to better acquaint yourself about the details that I'm referring to? If not, I suggest you take time to do so, otherwise you are conjecturing too.
The word "possibly" leaves the door open for other options too, one of which she didn't care for the positive turn out of this mission.
Possibility on why the company would hire such buffoons or desperate ones for this mission has been discussed long time ago on Prometheus thread. One was the secrecy of mission and the other was time lost from suspended animation which would amount to 4 years if the round trip was made. This tells me that you haven't re-watched the scenes in discussion. You should try because there's a lot more in those than what I can write here.
I am not going to re-watch it looking for minutia to connect the dots. Any time you have spaceships, robots and aliens I am there no matter what. I also think the 2 biggest problems were the Lidenoff rewrites stretching it for a trilogy and leaving some things ambiguous, especially when American audience need to be spoon fed. For instance, most should have got the Jesus reference as they were on their way 2000 years ago. Gee what happened 2000 years ago according to the Bible and Scott's every widening religious preoccupation as he nears death. Another thing that baffled me is why people can't understand simple things like why David infected that guy. He is specifically told by Old man Weyland to try harder. He then asks the guy when he is pouring the drink, what he would do to get the answers from the gods he came for, the guy says "anything" so he secretly infects him. I hope they do make a sequel. Depending on who and how it is written, it could make people realize the first one was better than they thought. Like maybe someone was trying to sabotage the mission, etc.
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post #525 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sb1 View Post
Which pertains to the discussion of this hellborn atrocity of a film. The criticisms spewed forth from our collective fingers can, at this moment until we know better, only be of the finished product itself. We don't know what happened to force the final product to be released the way it was. Studio pressure, deadlines, etc. Scott may come out years later and admit he didn't like it and that everything many of us have been bitching about was, in fact, effed up in his eyes too.

Or it was all Scott and he's lost his damn mind. Which may or may not have happened years ago.

Looking at recent pictures of Scott, I'd say the over/under is even on that proposition.
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post #526 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tack View Post
Nah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. Besides, how do we know his (Scott) vision is on the disc? Maybe he hates it. Wouldn't be the first time. He was never happy with Blade Runner hence the heavily modified Directors cut.

Brian Helgeland couldn't stand "Payback" the way it was and so released "Payback - Straight Up", which was hugely different than the original. The list goes on.

Good point; Sir Ridley is never satisfied, most of the time anyway...must be his brands of cigars.

As for 'Payback' (luv that flick btw); Brian totally lost control here, in trying to regain it. ...Just didn't work.
* The original is the only version that truly counts; the best.
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post #527 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 07:39 PM
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Good point; Sir Ridley is never satisfied, most of the time anyway...must be his brands of cigars.

As for 'Payback' (luv that flick btw); Brian totally lost control here, in trying to regain it. ...Just didn't work.
* The original is the only version that truly counts; the best.
I actually like them both equally. Depends on my mood. I'm just glad they are both available.
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post #528 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 07:42 PM
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And Josh, don't give up on us man; we all love you here, and over there, and you know it too.
We highly value your reviews; you are one of kind, from the right kind.
I have learned a lot from you, over all those HD DVD and Blu-ray years. ...And still. Your writings are all over, and well impregnated.
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post #529 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 07:46 PM
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I actually like them both equally. Depends on my mood. I'm just glad they are both available.
For me, the original 'Payback' is like LOTR Extended Edition trilogy; much more complete and satisfying overall. ...If you also like his shorter version of Porter, that is fine with me; I still luv you.

______

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post #530 of 531 Old 10-17-2014, 10:13 PM
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For me, the original 'Payback' is like LOTR Extended Edition trilogy; much more complete and satisfying overall. ...

I can respect that. Plus between Payback and Lucky Slevin, Lucy Liu has got to be one of the most desirable actresses I've had the pleasure of seeing.

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If you also like his shorter version of Porter, that is fine with me; I still luv you.
Awww.




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post #531 of 531 Old 10-18-2014, 03:21 PM
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