Cloud Atlas - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 10:25 AM
Advanced Member
 
sog35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

I asked you a simple question, do you have a problem with me saying "tough $#!t" to those (if any) who get offended by non-Mexican actors like Heston and Wallach playing Mexican character? Yes or no?

You need to ask people who are Mexican. And I'm not talking about 1 or 2. You need to talk to organizations that represent the fair treetment of minorities. I am in no position to say "tough shet" and neither is any other single individual. In the 1920's hollywood executives said the same thing about BlackFace. Someone is offended by Blackface? Tought shet is what they would say. I just hoped people would be more aware. Did the directors ask any of these minority rights organizations? No.
sog35 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 11:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bobby94928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rohnert Park, CA
Posts: 4,472
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

I never said anyone was a bigot. I'm just saying that just because some takes a side it does not mean he is correct.

Ain't that the truth.. wink.gif That does go every which way you know...

Bobby 

bobby94928 is online now  
post #183 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 11:26 AM
Administrator
 
Mike Lang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 11,502
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 328 Post(s)
Liked: 314
Gentlemen, get back on track or don't post at all.
darthrsg and J_P_A like this.

Mike Lang
Administrator
Please use the report post button to alert staff to problematic posts. Never quote or respond to them yourself.
Join the AVS Club and help support the site. Help Support AVS Forum Sponsors.
Mike Lang is offline  
post #184 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 11:40 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Planet Boston, source of the spice, Melange.
Posts: 20,043
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Liked: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

I haven't read the book or even the entire discussion in this thread, but I think the plot point involved is a comment about recycled souls and reincarnation. If reincarnation is real and the whole point is that each incarnation of each soul has the purpose of further molding the personality (a central plot point in both Dante's Inferno and the Phillip Jose Farmer Riverworld books), then NOT changing the actor's race would have eliminated this entire element of plot.

Let's pick up this thread. If the point of the story is that these souls are being reincarnated and "learn" something from one life to the next, that doesn't explain why certain characters flip flop from being good to bad, good to bad, and so forth.

Josh Z
Writer/Editor, High-Def Digest (Blog updated daily!)
Curator, Laserdisc Forever

My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers.

Josh Z is offline  
post #185 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 11:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
darthrsg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Post America America
Posts: 8,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
Liked: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Let's pick up this thread. If the point of the story is that these souls are being reincarnated and "learn" something from one life to the next, that doesn't explain why certain characters flip flop from being good to bad, good to bad, and so forth.
I'd argue that is chalked up life experience and circumstance. Good people do bad things and vice versa. Life is so cool.
darthrsg is offline  
post #186 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 11:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Morpheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montreal by day, Paris by night...
Posts: 6,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Liked: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Let's pick up this thread. If the point of the story is that these souls are being reincarnated and "learn" something from one life to the next, that doesn't explain why certain characters flip flop from being good to bad, good to bad, and so forth.

Here's an article about the characters and their "journey" throughout the film
http://www.vulture.com/2012/10/guide-to-the-characters-and-connections-of-cloud-atlas-confused.html
Morpheo is online now  
post #187 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 11:58 AM
Advanced Member
 
bcruiser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

You need to ask people who are Mexican. And I'm not talking about 1 or 2. You need to talk to organizations that represent the fair treetment of minorities. I am in no position to say "tough shet" and neither is any other single individual. In the 1920's hollywood executives said the same thing about BlackFace. Someone is offended by Blackface? Tought shet is what they would say.
You are talking about "yes" or "no". You have a problem with me for saying "tough $#!t" to those (if any) who are offended by white actors playing white Mexican characters. Otherwise why would you respond to me the way you did (quote below)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

wow. Another ignorant comment. Just because you dont find it offensive you have no right to tell others who offended tough shet. You have the sensability of a caveman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

I just hoped people would be more aware. Did the directors ask any of these minority rights organizations? No.
You have accused gwsat for posting something he didn't. For the third time I'm asking you, will you apologize to gwsat for such false accusation?
bcruiser is offline  
post #188 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 12:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
bcruiser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Its not only my opinon but the opinion of many Asian/American groups.
How many, what percentage?
Quote:
Again tell me the difference between the YellowFace used in Breakfast at Tiffany's (which has been almost universally criticized by Asian/American groups) and the YellowFace in Cloud Atlas.
I'll get to that after existing questions to you have been answered.
bcruiser is offline  
post #189 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 12:04 PM
Advanced Member
 
sog35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

You are talking about "yes" or "no". You have a problem with me for saying "tough $#!t" to those (if any) who are offended by white actors playing white Mexican characters. Otherwise why would you respond to me the way you did (quote below)?

You have accused gwsat for posting something he didn't. For the third time I'm asking you, will you apologize to gwsat for such false accusation?

sorry gwsat i got confused who posted what.
sog35 is offline  
post #190 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 12:05 PM
Advanced Member
 
sog35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

How many, what percentage?
I'll get to that after existing questions to you have been answered.

enought to make it in several media outlets.
sog35 is offline  
post #191 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 12:08 PM
Advanced Member
 
bcruiser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

enought to make it in several media outlets.
So you don't know how many. That's what I thought. Outraged by something you imagined... rolleyes.gif
bcruiser is offline  
post #192 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 12:11 PM
Advanced Member
 
bcruiser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

sorry gwsat i got confused who posted what.
Better late than never. But it took this long and 3 attempts while you telling me that I have the sensibility of a caveman.
bcruiser is offline  
post #193 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 12:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
sog35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

Better late than never. But it took this long and 3 attempts while you telling me that I have the sensibility of a caveman.

Now explain how the Breakfast at Tiffany's YellowFace is different from Cloud Atlas.

By the way, the book did not suggest that the same soul that was being reincarnated had simular physical charaterisitics EXCEPT for the comet birthmark. The idea to use the same actor in multiple timelines was introduced in the movie.
sog35 is offline  
post #194 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 12:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Morpheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montreal by day, Paris by night...
Posts: 6,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Liked: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post


By the way, the book did not suggest that the same soul that was being reincarnated had simular physical charaterisitics EXCEPT for the comet birthmark. The idea to use the same actor in multiple timelines was introduced in the movie.

So?

...that still doesn't say if you have read it or not because the info is online (and on the article I linked)...I merely asked a inoffensive question. Me I saw the movie first, loved it, bought the book the week after and read it. In the context of the movie, it can make you feel like you already know this character, somehow. This goes for the characters themselves as well. In a book, it's your mind that puts a name on a face (or a face on a name actually!), you build the visual element yourself. In a movie it's different obviously. Using the same actors for different parts was relevant, and justified. Other filmmakers would have done differently, but that's how they did it. Was it the right decision to use the same actors for multiple parts? I don't know, but it was, imo, an effective one.
Morpheo is online now  
post #195 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 12:55 PM
Advanced Member
 
sog35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

So?

...that still doesn't say if you have read it or not because the info is online (and on the article I linked)...I merely asked a inoffensive question. Me I saw the movie first, loved it, bought the book the week after and read it. In the context of the movie, it can make you feel like you already know this character, somehow. This goes for the characters themselves as well. In a book, it's your mind that puts a name on a face (or a face on a name actually!), you build the visual element yourself. In a movie it's different obviously. Using the same actors for different parts was relevant, and justified. Other filmmakers would have done differently, but that's how they did it. Was it the right decision to use the same actors for multiple parts? I don't know, but it was, imo, an effective one.

the so is the directors did not need to use the same actors. They could have simply used the birthmark. But it was a gimmick they though was cute but actually backfired and offended
sog35 is offline  
post #196 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 01:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Morpheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montreal by day, Paris by night...
Posts: 6,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Liked: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

the so is the directors did not need to use the same actors. They could have simply used the birthmark. But it was a gimmick they though was cute but actually backfired and offended

it's also called an adapted screenplay.


Quote:
"Translating Cloud Atlas Into The Language Of Film" - by David Mitchell.

My 2004 novel "Cloud Atlas" opens in 1850, with a notary on an island-hopping voyage from the South Pacific to San Francisco. But that narrative gets interrupted by another story, set in the 1930s, about a young composer who finds a memoir written some decades earlier by the notary; which story in turn is interrupted by another, involving a journalist and a physicist, whose letters recount the 1930s narrative; and so on, for a total of six different time frames. In the novel's second half, the "interrupted" narratives are continued, and the novel ends with the conclusion of the 1850s memoir.

This "there-and-back" structure always struck me as unfilmable, which is why I believed that "Cloud Atlas" would never be made into a movie. I was half right. It has now been adapted for the screen, but as a sort of pointillist mosaic: We stay in each of the six worlds just long enough for the hook to be sunk in, and from then on the film darts from world to world at the speed of a plate-spinner, revisiting each narrative for long enough to propel it forward.

Thinking about how a novel's structure must be made "film-shaped" has led me to these habits of successful adaptations.

First, the bagginess of novels becomes cinematic tautness. A novel can afford to take its time; meandering is a virtue. Dickens, Thackeray and their contemporaries had magazine pages to fill and needed a scale as full-grown as that great 21st-century narrative format, the DVD box set. And who wants to read a novel that lacks fallow areas and downtime—and thought? By contrast, a film costs at least $100,000 per minute, and after 180 minutes, the human eyeball is in danger of melting, so it has to deliver the plot more quickly.

Second, suggestiveness in novels becomes exactitude in film. Too much detail clogs text like cholesterol clogs arteries, and three sentences of description per roof/landscape/face are normally ample. The trick is to "stroke" the reader's imagination into life and get it to do the work for you. In a film, however, detail cannot be suggested: It is either shown or it isn't. Something similar occurs to dialogue. There are no readers to "hear" a particular line in their own way. The take used by the director becomes the one final version.

The third habit of adaptation might be called "Honey, I Shrunk the Cast." Novels like "Bleak House" and "The Lord of the Rings" have room for dozens of characters and time for major ones to wane and minor ones to wax in importance. But an adaptation must perform triage on the novel's cast or else the viewer will lose track of who's who (and the characters won't be around for long enough to develop anyway). The "Cloud Atlas" film is near the outer limit, with about eight major characters.

Fourth, just add music. Musicality in novels is only figurative: Books don't (yet) have speakers, though e-books are working on it. Music is an extra character that can amplify emotion or subvert it or stitch a narrative together. A gifted score-composer can somehow transform the essence of a book into music and have it waft through, like the Holy Spirit.

Fifth, and last for now: All roads lead to closure. The unwritten contract between author and reader does not contain a clause saying, "I, the author, do faithfully promise to reveal the ultimate fates of the major characters," but films do, which is why so few of the films with four or five stars from the review of posterity end in uncertain futures for the principle players.

Adaptation is a form of translation, and all acts of translation have to deal with untranslatable spots. Sometimes late at night I'll get an email from a translator asking for permission to change a pun in one of my novels or to substitute an idiomatic phrase with something plainer. My response is usually the same: You are the one with knowledge of the "into" language, so do what works. When asked whether I mind the changes made during the adaptation of "Cloud Atlas," my response is similar: The filmmakers speak fluent film language, and they've done what works.
Morpheo is online now  
post #197 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 01:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
sog35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

it's also called an adapted screenplay.

i said that because it was mentioned that having the same actor playing different roles was part of the book.
sog35 is offline  
post #198 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 01:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
bcruiser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Now explain how the Breakfast at Tiffany's YellowFace is different from Cloud Atlas.
You still haven't apologized to me about telling me that I have the sensibility of a caveman based on what you thought I implied instead of what I actually implied.
bcruiser is offline  
post #199 of 301 Old 06-18-2013, 01:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Morpheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montreal by day, Paris by night...
Posts: 6,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Liked: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

i said that because it was mentioned that having the same actor playing different roles was part of the book.

I could be wrong but it was only Gary who said changing faces was an essential plot device in Cloud Atlas, he was not referring to the book, but the film:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

This whole discussion is kinda moot anyway. People can choose to focus on actors changing race and playing other parts via makeup, or not. But having the same actors portray multiple characters in multiple times was a basic and essential plot device in Cloud Atlas IMHO. If they had cast multiple actors in these roles, or if they had not restrained the makeup artists to just enough alterations to make the race recognizable while letting you recognize the actor underneath the makeup, then an essential plot point would be missing.

I haven't read the book or even the entire discussion in this thread, but I think the plot point involved is a comment about recycled souls and reincarnation. If reincarnation is real and the whole point is that each incarnation of each soul has the purpose of further molding the personality (a central plot point in both Dante's Inferno and the Phillip Jose Farmer Riverworld books), then NOT changing the actor's race would have eliminated this entire element of plot.

like I said previously, a book and a movie are two different things. Having read the book as well, to me, it makes sense to have the same actors in different roles in this particular movie. Just out of curiosity, had you not been offended by this whole asian makeup issue, would you have been ok with it, storywise? Oh!..speaking of the book, have you r...nahh nevermind!
Morpheo is online now  
post #200 of 301 Old 06-19-2013, 05:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
eweiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Highland Village, TX
Posts: 7,595
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

This whole discussion is kinda moot anyway. People can choose to focus on actors changing race and playing other parts via makeup, or not. But having the same actors portray multiple characters in multiple times was a basic and essential plot device in Cloud Atlas IMHO. If they had cast multiple actors in these roles, or if they had not restrained the makeup artists to just enough alterations to make the race recognizable while letting you recognize the actor underneath the makeup, then an essential plot point would be missing.

I haven't read the book or even the entire discussion in this thread, but I think the plot point involved is a comment about recycled souls and reincarnation. If reincarnation is real and the whole point is that each incarnation of each soul has the purpose of further molding the personality (a central plot point in both Dante's Inferno and the Phillip Jose Farmer Riverworld books), then NOT changing the actor's race would have eliminated this entire element of plot.

While the recurring comet-shaped birthmark occurs in the book, I'm not getting a strong sense of a theme of recycled souls and reincarnation, unless it's too subtle for me to pick up on. Maybe it's something the Wachowskis added or more strongly emphasized. The end of the Robert Frobischer story suggests reincarnation, but as the character's thoughts, not as a theme of the book.
eweiss is offline  
post #201 of 301 Old 06-19-2013, 09:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kilgore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Huntsville Ontario
Posts: 2,992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Now explain how the Breakfast at Tiffany's YellowFace is different from Cloud Atlas.

By the way, the book did not suggest that the same soul that was being reincarnated had simular physical charaterisitics EXCEPT for the comet birthmark. The idea to use the same actor in multiple timelines was introduced in the movie.

Mickey Rooney's "Mr. Yunioshi" was an over the top, blatantly unsympathetic exaggeration of an overblown stereotype that even Blake Edwards was ashamed of.

Jim Sturgess's "Hae-Joo Chang" happens to be an Asian character, so make-up was applied to try to give Sturgess an "asian" appearance. Why not use an Asian actor? Well, since we're dealing with a film (which is a visual medium), and not a book, and because we're supposed to understand that the many main characters are being repeatedly reincarnated over a 500 year period, it makes perfect sense to use the same actor to portray each character in all reincarnated versions. In one particular version, the Jim Sturgess character is Asian, in the others, he is not.

Therefore, IMHO, the use of the same actor in all timelines was a perfectly understandable, and purely cinematic device. If there is anything wrong with "Hae-Joo Chang" in Cloud Atlas, it really just boils down to bad makeup, and certainly can't be compared to the ugly and blatantly rascist "Mr. Yunioshi".
Kilgore is online now  
post #202 of 301 Old 06-20-2013, 08:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Shaded Dogfood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Terminus and the Lake of Light
Posts: 4,835
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 34
I think somewhere along the line they realized having the makeup being an over-the-top rubberfest was the way to go. Some of what they were after would be extremely hard to do in a subtle way, so they opted to make everything exaggerated. Lots of what they were trying to do in the film was black comedy and designed to shock anyway.

CW Hinkle
Shaded Dogfood is offline  
post #203 of 301 Old 06-20-2013, 12:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gary McCoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: San Jose, California, USA
Posts: 6,247
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Let me go on record here:

I'm NOT OFFENDED by actors playing other races via makeup. I never really was, I thought the Charlie Chan movies were fun, and I enjoyed the Fu Manchu books and films both.

I thought that most Tarzan films were racist for the way they stereotyped Blacks as cowardly and stupid, along with other Hollywood films of the era such as Gone With The Wind and Holiday Inn, and many others. But these racist films employed Black actors who were paid for their performances in Black roles. The racist sequences are jarring today, but these are still good movies, from a different time.

Cloud Atlas is a good film that stands on it's own without the source book, and necessarily must diverge from the book because the two media are so different. The race-bending makeup was both necessary and not offensive in any way IMHO. A little controversy is not a bad thing for either the ticket sales or BD sales.

I choose to buy the Cloud Atlas Blu-Ray disk and also to recommend it to others. I have mixed feelings about the film, I find in it several flaws, but these are the type of flaws that happen when talented movie-makers take bites that are slightly too big. The plotting was a little forced, the timing was off in several spots, the film was too long, yet it's hard to point to any scene that could be removed.

I suspect that with one more re-write, the script would have been better. I need to watch this excellent film a few more times to finalize my opinions about it. I suspect it will find a spot on my "Top Ten" SF films list.

Gary McCoy
The United States Constitution ©1791. All Rights Reserved.

Gary McCoy is offline  
post #204 of 301 Old 06-22-2013, 01:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Sean Nelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Posts: 3,307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I've read Cloud Atlas, but I haven't seen the movie (yet). My take on the use of reincarnation in the book is that it isn't really a plot point on its own, but rather a reinforcing thread to the idea that mankind keeps repeating the same mistakes. Without having seen the movie, I can't really comment on how well or poorly the use of makeup was done or how much it contributed to or detracted from the story, but I'd be very surprised if I found it offensive. I'd take offense if makeup was used to belittle or ridicule a race (as was so often the case with blackface), and it was certainly offensive that studios wouldn't hire black actors (resorting to the use of blackface instead). But there was certainly nothing in the book to suggest that the movie would have those kinds of issues.

I remember the teapot tempest about the use of a Chinese actress for the lead role in "Memoirs of a Geisha". This seems to me to be comparable to that - the kind of controversy which would mostly offend those looking to be offended.
Sean Nelson is online now  
post #205 of 301 Old 06-22-2013, 02:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
bcruiser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson View Post

those looking to be offended.
Right on!
bcruiser is offline  
post #206 of 301 Old 06-22-2013, 03:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eweiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Highland Village, TX
Posts: 7,595
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Where are all these "offended" people when a Gentile plays Jesus or the apostles or another Jewish character, or vice-versa?

Where are all these "offended" people when a 30-year-old plays a 40-year-old, or vice-versa?

Where are all these "offended" people when an Australian actor plays an American or speaks with an American accent?

Where are all these "offended" people when a straight actor plays a gay character (Brokeback Mountain; Far From Heaven)?

Where are all these "offended" people when a location in a movie is not the actual location in the story? Shouldn't Texans be righteously upset if a movie that's supposed to take place in and around Austin is largely shot on sets (indoor and outdoor) in Michigan "made up" to look like they're near Austin (Whip It)?

So many people are so selective re: what is "offensive" and what is allowable. No one has a consistently logical hermeneutic for interpreting and dictating what is and is not "offensive." No one is willing to adhere to or support all that others might say is unallowable or offensive, yet they themselves seem to want to insist that all others wear the same political correctness blinders they've adopted and now use as a litmus test.

[/rant]
eweiss is offline  
post #207 of 301 Old 06-22-2013, 04:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mr. Hanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Picked up a rental copy just today...then found this topic. Sounds like I'm in for a real "treat" (given that I am Asian and feel I came from space, at times). tongue.gif

I need your sweet love, Rosetta Stone girl!
Mr. Hanky is offline  
post #208 of 301 Old 06-22-2013, 08:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mr. Hanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 31
I've seen a lot of movies, and this is the first one where I nearly got physically ill at the "exultation" sequence. That was horrific.

I need your sweet love, Rosetta Stone girl!
Mr. Hanky is offline  
post #209 of 301 Old 06-23-2013, 08:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mr. Hanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Now I shall comment on the "yellow face" issue on behalf of all Asian people tongue.gif ...for the most part, I didn't see it as an issue. I suspect that shifting the racial appearance of a person via make-up and prosthetic is not exactly a trivial procedure. Consider how hard it is to make just "regular" plastic surgery look good on a patient (not even trying to change racial appearance) that was good-looking in the first place. It's *real* easy to F-up the aesthetic beauty that was originally there by pure nature. It's a bold thing to try it in a movie, but I say there is still some ways to go before the science gets to the level of looking completely natural.

Now I submit that the treatment to Hugo's character was more aggressive than the other instances of race-shifting to Asian character. Maybe a click too far?...perhaps. I would offer an alternative explanation that they made it the way they did, not to demean Asians, but to convey he is a "bad guy"...a bad guy with somewhat exaggerated features, as if to be a caricature of being a bad guy. That's all I think it was, but it is easy to take Hugo's appearance the wrong way if not taking that context into account.

Look at the appearance of Tom Hank's "Dr. Goose" character. That was kind of an over-the-top caricature of a "white bad guy" from the colonial era, right? It certainly wasn't complementary to the aesthetic of a white person, but maybe we are all conditioned to accept that is what Caucasians on an old-world slave ship would look like, for some reason? I would submit that Tom Hanks looked the way he did because that character was to be presented as a "bad guy".

Every race has examples of aesthetic appearance that look like an utter train wreck (i.e., "ugly" by even the most lenient standards), that occur utterly out of nature. We should at least apply that reality check before we go-off on some racial outrage episode about something in a movie. wink.gif
darthrsg likes this.

I need your sweet love, Rosetta Stone girl!
Mr. Hanky is offline  
post #210 of 301 Old 06-23-2013, 08:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
darthrsg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Post America America
Posts: 8,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
Liked: 723
darthrsg is offline  
Reply Movies, Concerts, and Music Discussion

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off