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post #271 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Some of us also buy to collect for investment purposes. Told my kids when I pass, don't give away the collection! Put the collection up for sale - some of these DVDs I purchased at a super low price, are now worth hundreds on E-Bay!
Is that "Buy it Now" or actual bids? The thing about ebay is you can put anything up for any price. That doesn't mean you'll get that price.

Looking at what's actually bid on currently, the highest bid is $551 for a complete collection of "very high quality blu ray Lot ... over 100 movies in this lot and probably close to 250 discs." The highest bid for a series is $217.50 for "Pearl Jam 20 / Deluxe Edition Boxed Set!!" and $174.99 for "Marvel Cinematic Universe: Phase One - Avengers Assembled (Blu-ray Disc,...".

For a single movie, the highest bid is $122.50 for "THE BATMAN BEGINS Blu-ray Steel Book Ver. Amazon.co.jp LTD from Japan." Do you have that?

It's like my LP collection. I recently valued it for insurance (and possible sale) purposes using ebay as a guide. At first, I used "Buy it Now" and came up with a valuation in the neighborhood of $15,000. I later realized that no one would actually pay that amount for it and revalued the collection based on comparable bid prices, which lowered the value to about $1,300. If anyone wants to discuss purchasing the entire collection for $10,000 or more, PM me. biggrin.gif

Be seeing you!
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post #272 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 10:17 AM
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I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.


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post #273 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamageMcRamage View Post

Oink, I take it you carefully level matched each Blu Ray player hooked up to each input?
Yep, with my Radio Shack analog sound meter.

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I also assume that during this test there was no artificial processing such as audyssey, tone control, bass enhancements, dialog normalization, night setting, dynamic compression, etc, engaged on the receiver?
I ALWAYS have those things Turned Off and run everything in "Pure Audio Mode."

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I also am to assume these tests were done under blind conditions where you couldn't see the source being switched?
That is where the wife comes in handy with the remote.wink.gif

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I have no horse in this particular discussion race and it really doesn't fit into the topic at hand, but if a claim is made and stood by as a "definite" it should have been carefully tested and documented. If it isn't carefully tested and documented all it breaks down to is opinion. An opinion you have a right to of course.
All I can say is try it yourself.smile.gif
However, I can't account for the quality of someone else's audio system or their room acoustics.

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post #274 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 12:19 PM
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Re: DVD Investment and sarcasm!

And don't forget, getting the kids hopes up that they'll inherit something!
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post #275 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 12:24 PM
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the difference between lossless and lossy audio is obvious if you have a subwoofer that goes below 20hz. I can tell the difference immediately on scenes with deep bass. And yes, there are a ton of movies that go sub 20hz.
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post #276 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 12:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

the difference between lossless and lossy audio is obvious if you have a subwoofer that goes below 20hz. I can tell the difference immediately on scenes with deep bass. And yes, there are a ton of movies that go sub 20hz.

And if the scene doesn't have deep bass?
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post #277 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

As long as I can rent or buy a BD that plays at a crisp 1080p with no compression, filtering, or artifacts and gives me lossless 6 or 8 channel sound, that's what I'm going to do.

+1
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post #278 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Yeah, I have to agree. The reason you do it blind (or better, double blind) is that you don't want outside cues influencing the decision. If you know that TrueHD is playing at that moment, then your preconceptions are going to convince you it sounds better. If you do it blind, then you take that out and you're left with a raw evaluation.
I mean, if you didn't do it blind, but still truly believe that lossless is better, that's fine, it's your system, your opinion and your money, and don't owe anything to anyone else.
But if you want to convince other people, truly convince them that lossless is better, blind/double blind testing must be done.

Not only that there should be at least 10 trials each and the listener should pick out one of the other track each time correctly 100% of the time. Anything less won't do. In other words. The listener should call out the loss less track instead of claiming that he hears a difference between the tracks. Anyone could do that, naming the track correctly is what is all about.

Equipment and listening environment does make a difference however billing one's superior because one claims he could detect differences with on an obviously flawed test is irrelevant at best

There have been several published tests out there by people who actually know what they are doing and the matter remains inconclusive. Loss less tracks should be superior just by the numbers and I certainly favor it as well and there is no reason not to be included on all BD's, however when it comes to it's real perceived superiority on a correctly conducted DBT's , it remains elusive.

People have their own strong opinion on the matter and that's fine, I have mine too but there are facts out there one should pay attention to as well.

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post #279 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

the difference between lossless and lossy audio is obvious if you have a subwoofer that goes below 20hz. I can tell the difference immediately on scenes with deep bass. And yes, there are a ton of movies that go sub 20hz.

LOL Here we go.

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post #280 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Re: DVD Investment and sarcasm!
And don't forget, getting the kids hopes up that they'll inherit something!

as opposed to your digital libraries as it is in legal limbo as it seems

http://money.msn.com/family-money/article.aspx?post=0e6fb7ea-6506-4b5e-bbd6-aaebfb27f5e3

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post #281 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 01:18 PM
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I have had many streaming devices, I still have a vudu box that I bought it when they first came
out, I have a Roku player, My bd player LG BD590 250GB HD ,used to own a GOOGLE TV ,used to own a apple tv the one that comes with hard drive,I have a Xbox 360 slim that also stream, I had been using netflix since they start streaming, also hulu,amazon from my own experienced with streaming for years ,I will never stop buying blue rays, I have a collection of over 100 blue rays movies I own only 1 movie on my vudu account is avatar I did a comparison between my avatar blue ray movie and the one on my vudu account and I can tell the difference in quality between the bd and the hdx , I have a real good internet speed, how ever I can said that dvd could died because streaming dvd picture quality right now is far better quality than dvd ,But they are still behind when it comes to blue ray quality .When I want to watch a movie with a lot of special effects like tron ,avatar and movies that have pretty high bit rate I go and grab the blue ray ether renting or buying.I can tell the difference in picture quality on hdx vs bd movies maybe not in sound but picture quality there is a difference.

like i said before ,streaming will be always be behind blue ray.

There are so many problems that involve streaming, You do the list.

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post #282 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post


People have their own strong opinion on the matter and that's fine, I have mine too but there are facts out there one should pay attention to as well.

We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers, because fact checkers bring their own thoughts and beliefs to the process.” - Neil Newhouse

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post #283 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 02:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryker412 View Post

+1

He said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy

As long as I can rent or buy a BD that plays at a crisp 1080p with no compression, filtering, or artifacts and gives me lossless 6 or 8 channel sound, that's what I'm going to do.

You are aware that all BDs have compression right? MPEG4, AVC, VC-1, etc are all video compression codecs used for BD.
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post #284 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

And if the scene doesn't have deep bass?

I dont even think about it. Why should I?

All I know is if I'm running lossless audio I'm getting the best audio experience PERIOD. Theoretically lossy audio may sound just as good but why should I rely on theoretical assumptions?

From my unscientific tests I have concluded that lossless has better base under 20hz and less distortion at high volume levels.
What is my proof? Well the window shaking and the dog running out of the room for one.

If you can tell me for A FACT that lossey audio goes below 20hz then you got something. But from all I've read and HEARD or should I say FELT in my own home theater the lossey bass does not go as low.
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post #285 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 03:11 PM
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I had a lot of fun collecting and watching HD DVD and BR discs. I will miss the visual quality but not the frustration of purchasing a disk that may never get a firmware update. I haven't purchased a disk in over a year. I wish Sony had left HD DVD alone as BR has been and is a disaster. I understand even Sony is no longer supporting it's top of the line BR Changer to play all the latest BR discs. At least that is what I discovered while considering the considerable expense of purchasing one on their changers. I got tired of not being confident of whether a disc would play or not.
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post #286 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 03:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

What is my proof? Well the window shaking and the dog running out of the room for one.

LOL - I can do that with DD5.1. No big deal there. tongue.gif
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post #287 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 03:24 PM
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Personally I own many Bluray's that I have watched over 6 times and many I've watched over 10 times:

Starwars (all six movies)
LOTR (all six movies)
Batman begins
Batman Dark Knight
Inception
Avatar
Matrix
Matrix2
Matrix3
Ironman
X-men
downfall
Hero

Yes I watch a lot of movies. I watch an average of 5 movies every week (3 movies for the 3 times I run on my treadmill and 2 movies in the home theater).
I own about 120 blurays. 5 x 52 weeks = 260 movies a year. Thats over a thousand movies in 4 years. With Vudu I would be paying $8000 in that period of time. I've spent a fraction of that on my bluray collection. And with Vudu you end up with nothing. Maybe I'm odd because I like to watch great movies again and again. But why not? I don't eat Ribeye steak only once a decade.

Sometimes I only watch a specific scene or the bonus features or the commentary. Either way if I had to 'stream' these movies I would have paid over $100 to watch Return of the King. The key is not to buy crappy movies. Most of the movies I buy at watch at least 2 times. So if you use Vudu thats $16 right their. That's more than the average cost of my bluray collection (about $12). And I can watch the movie any time. I can watch it at my friends house. Let my sister borrow a few movies. I can watch it DOZENS of times. And I have clear and free title. PERIOD. With streaming you own NOTHING. Plus I dont need a data plan or fast internet connection. Plus I get better sound. Plus I get better video quality on my 92 inch screen.

So with streaming I need to pay more.
Get worse quality.
Own nothing.
Sounds great!
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post #288 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

LOL - I can do that with DD5.1. No big deal there. tongue.gif

well my dog is deaf so.....

anyway, show me an article that shows that lossy goes below 20hz
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post #289 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

well my dog is deaf so.....
anyway, show me an article that shows that lossy goes below 20hz

oh, one more thing. does lossey support 7.1?
I have a 7.1 system.

See all the unanswered questions lossey has? With lossless I dont need to worry about ANYTHING.
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post #290 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 03:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Personally I own many Bluray's that I have watched over 6 times and many I've watched over 10 times:
Starwars (all six movies)
LOTR (all six movies)
Batman begins
Batman Dark Knight
Inception
Avatar
Matrix
Matrix2
Matrix3
Ironman
X-men
downfall
Hero
Yes I watch a lot of movies. I watch an average of 5 movies every week (3 movies for the 3 times I run on my treadmill and 2 movies in the home theater).
I own about 120 blurays. 5 x 52 weeks = 260 movies a year. Thats over a thousand movies in 4 years. With Vudu I would be paying $8000 in that period of time. I've spent a fraction of that on my bluray collection. And with Vudu you end up with nothing. Maybe I'm odd because I like to watch great movies again and again. But why not? I don't eat Ribeye steak only once a decade.
Sometimes I only watch a specific scene or the bonus features or the commentary. Either way if I had to 'stream' these movies I would have paid over $100 to watch Return of the King. The key is not to buy crappy movies. Most of the movies I buy at watch at least 2 times. So if you use Vudu thats $16 right their. That's more than the average cost of my bluray collection (about $12). And I can watch the movie any time. I can watch it at my friends house. Let my sister borrow a few movies. I can watch it DOZENS of times. And I have clear and free title. PERIOD. With streaming you own NOTHING. Plus I dont need a data plan or fast internet connection. Plus I get better sound. Plus I get better video quality on my 92 inch screen.
So with streaming I need to pay more.
Get worse quality.
Own nothing.
Sounds great!

Guess you missed the part about discussing the difference between Mass Market consumers and Videophiles. It's great that you are a Videophile. I would expect AVS members to fall into that category. Mass Market consumers don't join AVS. Unfortunatley that category represents the smallest segment of the market.

But the facts of the matter are clear . . . optical disc revenue continues to drop year after year while streaming revenue is in growth mode. You wrote a nice diatribe but you are looking at it from a Micro standpoint as opposed to a Macro one.
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post #291 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 03:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

oh, one more thing. does lossey support 7.1?
I have a 7.1 system.
See all the unanswered questions lossey has? With lossless I dont need to worry about ANYTHING.

Dolby Digital Plus can handle 13 channels. It is a lossy audio format.
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post #292 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

oh, one more thing. does lossey support 7.1?
I have a 7.1 system.

Only a fraction of Blu-rays are 7.1. The rest are 5.1 and you'd have to use a matrixing algorithm (like ProLogicIIx.) for those just like 5.1 DVDs. You're dependent on the sound mixers rather than the lossy vs lossless argument.

And let's not start the ProLogicIIx vs discrete channels debate. That's even less conclusive than the lossy vs lossless audio argument.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
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post #293 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 03:55 PM
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Guess you missed the part about discussing the difference between Mass Market consumers and Videophiles. It's great that you are a Videophile. I would expect AVS members to fall into that category. Mass Market consumers don't join AVS. Unfortunatley that category represents the smallest segment of the market.
But the facts of the matter are clear . . . optical disc revenue continues to drop year after year while streaming revenue is in growth mode. You wrote a nice diatribe but you are looking at it from a Micro standpoint as opposed to a Macro one.

so what?

do i care what the mass market wants?
Does the mass market want to buy $2000 subwoofers and $4000 projector systems?
I think not.
But they still manufacturer these things because of the video/audiophiles.
The same with physical media.
There will always be a market for people who want to actually OWN a movie not just have the right to watch it once.
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post #294 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

So with streaming I need to pay more.
Get worse quality.
Own nothing.
Sounds great!

You can own streamed videos through Ultraviolet. Whatever it's flaws, it remains an option if you want to own but don't want physical media (which is a viable market segment.)

And most people don't have a system like yours or mine, so stereo sound and an okay HD stream is enough for them.

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post #295 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

There will always be a market for people who want to actually OWN a movie not just have the right to watch it once.

No one denied that. But physical media won't be the technological thrust in the years to come. Downloads and streaming will be, and most gear will be optimized for that market.

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post #296 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 04:08 PM
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On my first vudu box I had movies and cartoons collection inside the box, The box got damage they replace me a box ,But they said they cant give me the movies back ,That was a lost right there almost $60 dollars lost.Also had a media box with a 1 tb of movies, The hard drive got damage I lost every single movie.

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post #297 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

On my first vudu box i had movies and cartoons collection inside the box the box got damage they replace me a box ,But they said they cant give me the movies back ,That was a lost right there almost $60 dollars lost.Also had a media box with a 1 tb of movies, The hard drive got damage I lost every single movie.

That's the beauty of the new cloud based initiatives. If your gear goes kaput, your movies don't go away, because they're stored on remote servers with tons of redundant backups.

And you don't have to use your home gear. Just gear you can log in with, like mobile devices.

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post #298 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 04:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

so what?
do i care what the mass market wants?
Does the mass market want to buy $2000 subwoofers and $4000 projector systems?
I think not.
But they still manufacturer these things because of the video/audiophiles.
The same with physical media.
There will always be a market for people who want to actually OWN a movie not just have the right to watch it once.

You have not included digital downloads - the ability to own a movie and play it as many times as you want whenever you want - just like a disc. Digital does not mean just streaming. Ultraviolet allows you unlimited streaming. You need to brush up on what is available now digitally.
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post #299 of 1422 Old 09-03-2012, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

You can own streamed videos through Ultraviolet. Whatever it's flaws, it remains an option if you want to own but don't want physical media (which is a viable market segment.)
And most people don't have a system like yours or mine, so stereo sound and an okay HD stream is enough for them.

how much does it cost to 'own' a UV movie?
does it go on your harddrive?
can you burn it on a disc?
how much does that disc cost?
what if your harddrive crashes?

I don't see physical media disappearing for at least 20 years.
Why should i even think about something that wont happen for two decades.

Look at CD's. They still produce those and mp3 have been out for ages and mp3 prices and delivery are 1000x better than streaming video.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

That's the beauty of the new cloud based initiatives. If your gear goes kaput, your movies don't go away, because they're stored on remote servers with tons of redundant backups.

Fire . . . Robbery . . . lending out and never getting your disc back - none of these affect cloud based ownership.
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