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post #91 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 05:28 AM
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We buy a Blu-Ray occasionally yet by far we watch free movies from HDTV, DirecTV free On-Demand & DirecTV Pay-Per-View. This is despite our ability to stream. I must admit that I just do not want to deal with the fiddely bits.

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post #92 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Hate to sound like a broken record, but . . . it will not be YEARS. It is coming soon. As early as next year due to the new codec H.265.

You keep talking about this wonderful new codec, yet you provide no information at all about it and you're the first person I've ever heard mention it, and I like to think I keep up with this stuff. And you've mentioned it a lot. When, exactly, is it coming and how and who will deliver it? How does it improve the current MPEG 4 codec that some providers (DTV, I think) are only now beginning to use? Everybody else is still using MPEG 2, aren't they? What will be the advantage? Does it include audio or only video?

It might as well save the world and clean the oceans, as seggers surmises. What's not clear is how it's going to revolutionize streaming, or make it even close to BD quality.
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post #93 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 05:50 AM
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post #94 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 09:43 AM
 
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H.265:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding


MPEG drafts twice-as-efficient H.265 video standard, sees use in phones as soon as 2013
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Ericsson Research visual technology lead Per Fröjdh anticipates H.265 coming as soon as 2013, when our smartphones and tablets are most likely to play it first. TV and other areas might have to wait, although Fröjdh is offering a consolation prize -- he's teasing a separate MPEG project that could give us glasses-free, compressed 3D video as a standard by 2014.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/15/mpeg-drafts-twice-as-efficient-h-265-video-standard/
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post #95 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 10:27 AM
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"A panel of world renown linguists predict English along with all other major spoken and written languages shall be replaced by Klington within the next decade."

To begin your journey with Klingon visit "The Klingon Language Institute" web site http://www.kli.org/

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post #96 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 10:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

And the Blu-ray disc association is probably looking at it as well... So as streaming solutions improve, so is Blu-ray I guess... Which is why I still believe physical media is here to stay, at least for a little while... If they can stick the 6 Star Wars movies on a single disc with an image equal or better than what we have now, I bet they will and we'll buy it again. Or the LOTR trilogy, or TV shows (like 2 discs for a complete season in high definition, yes please!), or the 18 cuts of Blade Runner etc, you get my idea wink.gif

Yes - the BDA is looking at H.265. But not to improve the HD quality of BD. For 2160P (aka "4K") on a 50 GB dual layer BD.

Sony to Launch 84-Inch, 4K TV This Year
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Washington, D.C. (August 30, 2012) -- Sony announced yesterday that it will begin selling a 84-inch, 4K LCD HDTV later this year in Sony Stores and select retail locations in North America.

The company, which did not reveal a specific launch date or price, said it would be the first TV capable of displaying 4K images in the world. The 4K set purports to offer a resolution four times greater than a 1080p TV.
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Sony actually has been selling a 4K projector for nearly a year in specialty stores and online at SonyStyle.com. The projector has been priced at more than $20,000 and the 84-inch set is expected to carry a similar hefty price tag.
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Another obstacle for the 4K set: Content.

There have been several movies filmed in 4K over the last few years, but none are currently available on home video. However, Sony could release some 4K movies on Blu-ray disc this December when it launches the 84-inch 4K TV.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/sony083112.htm

Note . . . Toshiba and LG have also shown 84" 4K TVs.


Sony’s Marty, BDA’s Parsons Talk Blu-ray
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Q: Apple has made a point of saying that its new retina displays actually have more pixels than an HDTV, suggesting the picture quality is better than Blu-ray. Do you think Blu-ray will be able to become more high-def with greater resolution? Is there a next-gen HD in the works?

Parsons: We are already at the maximum resolution available for the HDTV systems currently in use around the world (1080p), so the only way to become “more high def” would be to incorporate 4K resolution into the format. At present, the BDA is not working on a 4K version of Blu-ray, but if and when the time comes to do that, we believe the 50GB capacity should allow us to accommodate the much higher data rates that 4K sources require.

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/blu-ray-disc/sony-s-marty-bda-s-parsons-talk-blu-ray-27515
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post #97 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 11:16 AM
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$20k for a 4k 84" LCD?eek.gif

Uhhhhh, not for me.

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post #98 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Because DIVX was DOA and was never a serious threat. Might as well have said CED was in a format war with videotape. Everyone I knew who used DIVX HATED it. Circuit City was all too happy to bury any mention of it when it finally bit the dust.
DVD had almost no serious rivalry other than the pre-existing VHS market (in which it had advantages over every element except recording)

Your memory of those events is clouded by your own interests at the time. Whatever you or any of your friends may have thought of it, DIVX was a genuine threat to DVD in the early days. This had less to do with what consumers wanted than what the studios wanted. Certain studios such as Disney and Fox were extremely keen on only releasing their movies on a pay-per-view format that would allow them greater control over their catalogs. Neither studio supported DVD for the first year or so. This left quite a bit of confusion in the marketplace about whether DVD would ever be universally supported by all studios. This is not fundamentally different from what later happened in the Blu-ray/HD DVD format war.

Had Disney and Fox gotten other studios to join them, they could have forced DIVX down our throats regardless of what consumers actually wanted. That was the real threat of DIVX, and the reason it was greatly feared by many in the industry.

What was different about that format war (as opposed to the HD war), however, was that the novelty of being able to own movies on a compact videodisc was so compelling that people jumped all over DVD quickly, regardless of not having universal studio support. They were happy to take whatever they could get, and figured that the issues with those other studios would sort themselves out eventually. And that's exactly what happened.

By the time of the HD war, that novelty was largely gone. People were hesistant to adopt a new format, because they already had DVD, which was still pretty good in their eyes. Before DVD, few people owned or collected many movies (maybe a few Disney tapes for the kids here and there). The entire market was in a different place by the time the HD war started in 2006.

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post #99 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

I'm not even talking about streaming per se. I'm talking about OWNING physical copies of movies. Its completely pointless. And the studios love it because they make tons of money on it.

Why own anything? Why own books? Why own art? Why own furniture? Why own a car? It's all completely pointless.

Better to shed all worldly possessions, build a cabin in the woods of Montana, grow a beard, and devote your life to writing your manifesto about the evils of the modern world.

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post #100 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 11:40 AM
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$20k for a 4k 84" LCD?eek.gif
Uhhhhh, not for me.

My wife saw an advert for a $30+k Sony 4k. Please, HD isn't yet mature.

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post #101 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Why own anything? Why own books? Why own art? Why own furniture? Why own a car? It's all completely pointless.
Better to shed all worldly possessions, build a cabin in the woods of Montana, grow a beard, and devote your life to writing your manifesto about the evils of the modern world.

+ double good

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post #102 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 11:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Why own anything? Why own books? Why own art? Why own furniture? Why own a car? It's all completely pointless.
Better to shed all worldly possessions, build a cabin in the woods of Montana, grow a beard, and devote your life to writing your manifesto about the evils of the modern world.

LOL - well - that seems to me to be the extreme of "not owning anything" and really doesn't apply in this discussion because not owning a movie doesn't mean you can't see it. You can by renting it. Lots of people rent. And of course, not just movies.

With rentals being approx $2 (Redbox) where is the financial justification for buying a movie for $15? You going to watch it at least 8 times? Or is buying movies more of an emotional decision? IMO - it is.
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post #103 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

What was different about that format war (as opposed to the HD war), however, was that the novelty of being able to own movies on a compact videodisc was so compelling that people jumped all over DVD quickly, regardless of not having universal studio support. They were happy to take whatever they could get, and figured that the issues with those other studios would sort themselves out eventually. And that's exactly what happened. .

I really don't give a flip about the inside industry fighting that happened between DVD and DIVX. DIVX never really took off for consumers for the reasons you just posted. That's the point of my post about the DVD/DIVX "war."

Most formats have at least some challenger, but only a couple have had challengers in it for the long haul like HD-DVD and Betamax.

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post #104 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

With rentals being approx $2 (Redbox) where is the financial justification for buying a movie for $15? You going to watch it at least 8 times? Or is buying movies more of an emotional decision? IMO - it is.

For collectors it's emotional.

Also, some kids movies probably do get watched a heck of a lot more than eight times, so renting the Redbox DVD every day wouldn't make as much sense. Renting the VUDU version every day for $6 a pop wouldn't, either. Netflix unlimited streams would, but the newest kids movie probably won't be on the stream right away.

I guess it's emotional if you consider parents' sanity. tongue.gif

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post #105 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Whatever you or any of your friends may have thought of it, DIVX was a genuine threat to DVD in the early days. This had less to do with what consumers wanted than what the studios wanted. Certain studios such as Disney and Fox were extremely keen on only releasing their movies on a pay-per-view format that would allow them greater control over their catalogs. Neither studio supported DVD for the first year or so. This left quite a bit of confusion in the marketplace about whether DVD would ever be universally supported by all studios. This is not fundamentally different from what later happened in the Blu-ray/HD DVD format war.
Had Disney and Fox gotten other studios to join them, they could have forced DIVX down our throats regardless of what consumers actually wanted. That was the real threat of DIVX, and the reason it was greatly feared by many in the industry.
What was different about that format war (as opposed to the HD war), however, was that the novelty of being able to own movies on a compact videodisc was so compelling that people jumped all over DVD quickly, regardless of not having universal studio support. They were happy to take whatever they could get, and figured that the issues with those other studios would sort themselves out eventually. And that's exactly what happened.
By the time of the HD war, that novelty was largely gone. People were hesistant to adopt a new format, because they already had DVD, which was still pretty good in their eyes. Before DVD, few people owned or collected many movies (maybe a few Disney tapes for the kids here and there). The entire market was in a different place by the time the HD war started in 2006.
Agree.

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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Why own anything? Why own books? Why own art? Why own furniture? Why own a car? It's all completely pointless.
Better to shed all worldly possessions, build a cabin in the woods of Montana, grow a beard, and devote your life to writing your manifesto about the evils of the modern world.
You have inspired me to change my life...again.

Since I'll have to chuck my computer now, I guess this will be my last post on AVS.tongue.gif

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post #106 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

$20k for a 4k 84" LCD?eek.gif
Uhhhhh, not for me.

Well, the first plasma TVs were about $10-15,000.









Yeah, I didn't buy one, either. wink.gif

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post #107 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 01:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rliebherr View Post

Thoughts on this article? How do you feel about moving to a streaming/renting environment versus a disc/owning enviornment?

I don't mind streaming for renting, however they need to improve the audio quality (too compressed). I much rather own the disc over downloading. Also they need to lower the streaming rental prices.
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post #108 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 01:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

Home theater has long been about "bragging rights" so it doesn't matter if the owner can't see the difference between 720p and 1080p or hear the difference between lossy and lossless audio it's all about owning "the gear." And yes, sb1, I get flack to for bringing this up but it goes clear back to the 1950s when companies started selling high equipment bragging that it had a frequency range from 20-20000 cycles though many people can't hear much above 10or12k.

You have to be careful though, or just for the sake of bragging rights, you end spending a bunch of money useless snake oil products. Let us not forget, this is the Audio Video Science Forum.
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post #109 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 01:39 PM
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Also they need to lower the streaming rental prices.

Who? Netflix? Netflix is dirt cheap for what you get, assuming you like the content.

VUDU? Yeah, they're on the high side, but they are on par with most VOD from cable, etc., and around the price of what Blockbuster used to charge.

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post #110 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 01:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Who? Netflix? Netflix is dirt cheap for what you get, assuming you like the content.
VUDU? Yeah, they're on the high side, but they are on par with most VOD from cable, etc., and around the price of what Blockbuster used to charge.

How much is Netflix for a 24hr rental of an HD movie?
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post #111 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 02:11 PM
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I was involved in the madness of collecting DVD's a few years back, mainly because I could buy them for $5-10, less than the cost of a lunch. Many of them I've never watched, although I swore I would when I bought them. After awhile, I had to build an new wing on the house to hold them all, which was considerably more expensive. wink.gif

But I eventually recovered my sanity, gave away most of my DVD collection, and now I own about 15 BD's. I'll purchase more when a really "special" one that I know I'll watch multiple times comes around. That includes "Lawrence of Arabia", which someone here mentioned earlier. Otherwise, I rent BD's for the quality of viewing experience and I don't stream anything because it's just not as good. That works for me and Mrs. Archi and our HT guests, and I suspect it will continue to work just fine for years to come.
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post #112 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

How much is Netflix for a 24hr rental of an HD movie?

They don't rent movies a la carte. It's $8 for a month, all you can watch.

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post #113 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Who? Netflix? Netflix is dirt cheap for what you get, assuming you like the content.
VUDU? Yeah, they're on the high side, but they are on par with most VOD from cable, etc., and around the price of what Blockbuster used to charge.

How much is Netflix for a 24hr rental of an HD movie?

8 / 30 = .26 for a day, or if you're not a member you can watch free it with a "free trial" offer I believe

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post #114 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post

My wife saw an advert for a $30+k Sony 4k. Please, HD isn't yet mature.

I never said HD was mature, I said the Blu Ray Disc is maturing and maturing early. Don't get confused.
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post #115 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

For collectors it's emotional.
Also, some kids movies probably do get watched a heck of a lot more than eight times, so renting the Redbox DVD every day wouldn't make as much sense. Renting the VUDU version every day for $6 a pop wouldn't, either. Netflix unlimited streams would, but the newest kids movie probably won't be on the stream right away.
I guess it's emotional if you consider parents' sanity. tongue.gif

This kind of puts a bow on the whole discussion. As soon as people let go of the emotional investment in owning, which is appears consumers are starting to do, the collectors will be the only people buying physical media. At that point, it will become a niche market. At the same time, consumers will be moving toward streaming to fulfill their demand for movies. It's cheap to pay for every month and you have access to a vast library - a selection far greater than a home can store - and you can watch that selection as many times as you want. It's difficult for me to believe that anyone who doesn't believe this is the future is sincere in their disagreement. When you're confronted with the facts, the trends, and the already shifting market, you have to know this is the future.
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post #116 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I don't mind streaming for renting, however they need to improve the audio quality (too compressed). I much rather own the disc over downloading. Also they need to lower the streaming rental prices.

$8 a month for Netlix and $75 a year for Amazon prime. That's pretty cheap. If you add additional players in that market, prices drop. Though it's difficult to see how they could. I think the biggest difference among competitors will be exclusive content and library size. I can also see cable moving in a direction like this. Instead of waiting to watch your shows at a certain time, the content will become available at a certain time and you watch it when you want. Netflix already has exclusive seasons and people already do this with DVRs, why not make it the norm?
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post #117 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by rliebherr View Post

This kind of puts a bow on the whole discussion. As soon as people let go of the emotional investment in owning, which is appears consumers are starting to do, the collectors will be the only people buying physical media. At that point, it will become a niche market. At the same time, consumers will be moving toward streaming to fulfill their demand for movies. It's cheap to pay for every month and you have access to a vast library - a selection far greater than a home can store - and you can watch that selection as many times as you want. It's difficult for me to believe that anyone who doesn't believe this is the future is sincere in their disagreement. When you're confronted with the facts, the trends, and the already shifting market, you have to know this is the future.
But the truth is you don't have access to a vast library, at least a vast library of what you want to watch that is current, for a reasonable price.


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post #118 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 04:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rliebherr View Post

This kind of puts a bow on the whole discussion. As soon as people let go of the emotional investment in owning, which is appears consumers are starting to do, the collectors will be the only people buying physical media. At that point, it will become a niche market. At the same time, consumers will be moving toward streaming to fulfill their demand for movies. It's cheap to pay for every month and you have access to a vast library - a selection far greater than a home can store - and you can watch that selection as many times as you want. It's difficult for me to believe that anyone who doesn't believe this is the future is sincere in their disagreement. When you're confronted with the facts, the trends, and the already shifting market, you have to know this is the future.

Consumers haven't "just started" . . . they have been letting go of buying since 2007, the year that optical disc sales first began declining. And said decline has been substantial. From a high of $16.6 billion in 2006 to 2011's low of $8.95 billion. That's DVD and BD combined BTW.
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post #119 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rliebherr View Post

This kind of puts a bow on the whole discussion. As soon as people let go of the emotional investment in owning, which is appears consumers are starting to do, the collectors will be the only people buying physical media. At that point, it will become a niche market. At the same time, consumers will be moving toward streaming to fulfill their demand for movies. It's cheap to pay for every month and you have access to a vast library - a selection far greater than a home can store - and you can watch that selection as many times as you want. It's difficult for me to believe that anyone who doesn't believe this is the future is sincere in their disagreement. When you're confronted with the facts, the trends, and the already shifting market, you have to know this is the future.

Consumers haven't "just started" . . . they have been letting go of buying since 2007, the year that optical disc sales first began declining. And said decline has been substantial. From a high of $16.6 billion in 2006 to 2011's low of $8.95 billion. That's DVD and BD combined BTW.

Curious, since you're a 3d enthusiast, how is streaming for 3d?

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post #120 of 1422 Old 08-30-2012, 05:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rliebherr View Post

$8 a month for Netlix and $75 a year for Amazon prime. That's pretty cheap. If you add additional players in that market, prices drop. Though it's difficult to see how they could. I think the biggest difference among competitors will be exclusive content and library size. I can also see cable moving in a direction like this. Instead of waiting to watch your shows at a certain time, the content will become available at a certain time and you watch it when you want. Netflix already has exclusive seasons and people already do this with DVRs, why not make it the norm?

No that's not bad at all. I'm going to have to sign up with Amazon for my rentals. I still prefer Blu Ray for ownership of my favorite movies.
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