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post #1 of 1422 Old 08-23-2012, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Thoughts on this article? How do you feel about moving to a streaming/renting environment versus a disc/owning enviornment?
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post #2 of 1422 Old 08-23-2012, 04:31 PM
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I'm always grateful when an "industry expert" is able to tell me what I want to watch, how and when to watch it. Saved me the trouble of figuring it out. rolleyes.gif
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post #3 of 1422 Old 08-23-2012, 04:58 PM
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As long as I can rent or buy a BD that plays at a crisp 1080p with no compression, filtering, or artifacts and gives me lossless 6 or 8 channel sound, that's what I'm going to do. Quality matters to me, like it matters to most of us here. I don't care about the release window. I'm not in any particular hurry to watch anything. I'll continue to patronize Netflix, at least until they stop renting disks. That's probably a few years away and streaming options may be of a higher quality by then.
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post #4 of 1422 Old 08-23-2012, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rliebherr View Post

Thoughts on this article? How do you feel about moving to a streaming/renting environment versus a disc/owning enviornment?

More drivel from the quoted expert. Ho, hum. He obviously loves streaming too much and doesn't care about quality images and audio, also known as BR.
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post #5 of 1422 Old 08-23-2012, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

And physical media is clearly on its deathbed. In a few more years Blu-ray will be a niche market like laserdisc.

Once the technology arrives to receive the BD quality via streaming, it’s a done deal. It will happen.
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post #6 of 1422 Old 08-23-2012, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I'm always grateful when an "industry expert" is able to tell me what I want to watch, how and when to watch it. Saved me the trouble of figuring it out. rolleyes.gif
LOL, we have been down this road before.....haven't we?wink.gif

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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

As long as I can rent or buy a BD that plays at a crisp 1080p with no compression, filtering, or artifacts and gives me lossless 6 or 8 channel sound, that's what I'm going to do. Quality matters to me, like it matters to most of us here. I don't care about the release window. I'm not in any particular hurry to watch anything. I'll continue to patronize Netflix, at least until they stop renting disks. That's probably a few years away and streaming options may be of a higher quality by then.
+100000000

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Originally Posted by benes View Post

BD In a few more years Blu-ray will be a niche market like laserdisc.
That's what they said about DVD and it's still going pretty well.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the bandwidth necessary to provide fast streaming at the BD quality level fairly far off?
I read an article not long ago that said something to the effect we would have to completely "re-wire" the U.S. at the ground level and no one has the $$$ to do it.
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post #7 of 1422 Old 08-23-2012, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rliebherr View Post

Thoughts on this article? How do you feel about moving to a streaming/renting environment versus a disc/owning enviornment?

While this doesn't apply to anything out in recent years, I might want to see a title many times and I'm NOT gonna pay for it
each time I watch it. End of story.
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post #8 of 1422 Old 08-23-2012, 06:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

Once the technology arrives to receive the BD quality via streaming, it’s a done deal. It will happen.

Keep dreaming then.

ISP's are moving more towards data caps and tiered data services, not away from them. How many 20-50GB files are you going to stream/DL a month, and at what cost? Maybe if Google or the Gov pushed Broadband OTA or something else soon...

Disc might end up dying, but it's going to be because of ultra cheap solid state media eventually. Think how big, yet tiny flash has become. Soon it'll be as cheap as discs to produce. Savings on shipping and distribution will then allow them better margins while passing on a few % savings to consumers (make media cheaper).
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post #9 of 1422 Old 08-23-2012, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by benes View Post

Absolutely.
I just sold my entire DVD and blu-ray collection a few months ago. The future is clear.
And believe me I supported Blu-ray and railed against streaming more than anyone a few years ago. But I am not a fan of formats, only of the best quality. Blu-ray delivers the best for now but that will change soon.
And pay again to stream those titles you had already owned?
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post #10 of 1422 Old 08-23-2012, 09:20 PM
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That's true, I prefer to purchase BD, or just download HD videos.
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post #11 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

As long as I can rent or buy a BD that plays at a crisp 1080p with no compression, filtering, or artifacts and gives me lossless 6 or 8 channel sound, that's what I'm going to do. Quality matters to me, like it matters to most of us here.

Spot on!
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post #12 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
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If/when streaming tech is able to handle 1080p (or whatever the standard may be at the time) with DTS HD Master Audio or Dolby Digital HD Audio (or whatever the standard may be at the time), I'll gladly make the switch to streaming. Until that happens, I'm not willing to sacrifice the quality of the audio and picture. Streaming isn't there yet, but it will be in my lifetime.
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post #13 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 05:30 AM
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Such experts should use the "Average Man" test. Millions could care less about all this high tech gadgetry. Conversion to HD was one thing. Conversion to streaming is another.

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post #14 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 09:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

People were predicting this in the 90s back when we were on dial-up and had never even heard of the word broadband. It seemed inconceivable then but not so much now.

Not much has changed from the 90's. The technology that existed then exists now, 99% of broadband is over copper: cable or phone. And you still didn't respond to the fact that open pipes are being closed in the name of tiered and capped service. If the current ISP's had their way, they'd even packet discriminate, giving priority to paying customers of information, while hampering everything else. Steaming is growing, but compression is the name of the game. Something we here don't much appreciate. smile.gif

Maybe some miraculous new paradigm will come, some crazy new technology, but it's wishful thinking. The infrastructure costs are too much, and the ability of already entrenched players to severely undercut startups too great. And I don't see the government stepping in anytime soon, especially in our current political climate.
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post #15 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post

Such experts should use the "Average Man" test.

The "average man" in terms of HT enthusiasts, or in terms of the masses? Because the masses would love to stream instead of going out and getting (or waiting for) physical discs. Anything that would obviate the need from them getting out of their Laz-E-Boys they're A-Okay with.
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post #16 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Not much has changed from the 90's. The technology that existed then exists now, 99% of broadband is over copper: cable or phone. And you still didn't respond to the fact that open pipes are being closed in the name of tiered and capped service. If the current ISP's had their way, they'd even packet discriminate, giving priority to paying customers of information, while hampering everything else. Steaming is growing, but compression is the name of the game. Something we here don't much appreciate. smile.gif
Maybe some miraculous new paradigm will come, some crazy new technology, but it's wishful thinking. The infrastructure costs are too much, and the ability of already entrenched players to severely undercut startups too great. And I don't see the government stepping in anytime soon, especially in our current political climate.
Once the chance to increase revenue is there, ISP's will make it work affordably (relatively speaking). Whether they start their own streaming service or something else. As someone referenced above, the average person is all too happy to sit at home and see a movie without going out to rent/buy physical media. As much as I love buying BD's and counting pixels while measuring my subs response during a monster attack or battle in space, I also enjoy the hell out of flinking around on the Roku, Xbox, etc, to find a movie to watch.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #17 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 11:13 AM
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From Home Media Magazine 8/19:

Rental Discs Still Preferred Over Digital


Rentals of DVDs and Blu-ray Discs from kiosks, brick-and-mortar retailers and Netflix accounted for 62% of movie rental orders during the first half of this year, compared with 38% for digital movie rentals such subscription video-on-demand streaming and transactional VOD on premium TV channels and the Internet, according to new data from The NPD Group.

Within the physical market, kiosks continued to extend their lead, with rentals growing 5% over last year. Kiosks accounted for 45% of the physical market, as rentals from brick-and-mortar stores continued to fade. DVD and BD by-mail subscriptions also declined as Netflix continues focus on streaming instead of discs.

Digital rentals increased 5% in the first half of the year due largely to Netflix. Although the majority (80%) of Netflix rentals are for TV shows, movies account for 66% of digital rentals. Transactional VOD on cable, satellite TV and telecommunications operators accounted for 28% of digital orders, while transactional VOD on the Internet (iVOD) accounted for 6%.

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post #18 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 11:16 AM
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4k will come out and the cycle will start again.

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post #19 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

Absolutely.
I just sold my entire DVD and blu-ray collection a few months ago. The future is clear.
And believe me I supported Blu-ray and railed against streaming more than anyone a few years ago. But I am not a fan of formats, only of the best quality. Blu-ray delivers the best for now but that will change soon.

"but that will change soon."
***How 'soon' is your 'soon' son? For streaming to be of the quality, video and 6 or 8 channels of audio, of BD? Selling off BD discs and player(s) is stupid. SO, they ceased working correctly? LOL Selling them because you don't ever watch movies more than once is one thing, selling them anticipating something that is probably years away, is foolish.
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post #20 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post

Such experts should use the "Average Man" test. Millions could care less about all this high tech gadgetry. Conversion to HD was one thing. Conversion to streaming is another.
+1


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

The "average man" in terms of HT enthusiasts, or in terms of the masses? Because the masses would love to stream instead of going out and getting (or waiting for) physical discs. Anything that would obviate the need from them getting out of their Laz-E-Boys they're A-Okay with.

Although NF and Amazon brings movies right to the mailbox (and that is about as simple as it can get), not everyone is fond of computering (old people, hillbillies, etc.).
A lot of people find EMAIL a significant challenge....

I am not so sure the "masses" would really take to the idea of downloading movies when there are other and more familiar options available.
However, if it becomes quick and easy (Laz-E-Boy with a remote), and the HD is worthy, it just might...but it won't be soon (IMO).
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post #21 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

Although NF and Amazon brings movies right to the mailbox (and that is about as simple as it can get), not everyone is fond of computering (old people, hillbillies, etc.).
A lot of people find EMAIL a significant challenge....
I am not so sure the "masses" would really take to the idea of downloading movies when there are other and more familiar options available.
However, if it becomes quick and easy (Laz-E-Boy with a remote), and the HD is worthy, it just might...but it won't be soon (IMO).

You don't necessarily have to have a computer to stream/download. Blu-ray players, content streamers, and other devices with the apps needed are pretty intuitive, with large, easy-to-identify icons and only a bit of setup initially. I agree it won't be in everyone's house this year, but it's a heck of a lot easier than it used to be, even for the mouthbreathers. Once the kids who know how to use a smartphone at age eight come of age and start buying, it's game over for physical media.

And honestly, I don't think the masses need "worthy" HD. They put up with hugely compressed cable and satellite, for pete's sake, or run their DVDs (or heaven forbid, VCRs) on their HD flatscreens. Blu-ray isn't necessarily a big priority for them.

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post #22 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

You don't necessarily have to have a computer to stream/download. Blu-ray players, content streamers, and other devices with the apps needed are pretty intuitive, with large, easy-to-identify icons and only a bit of setup initially. I agree it won't be in everyone's house this year, but it's a heck of a lot easier than it used to be, even for the mouthbreathers. Once the kids who know how to use a smartphone at age eight come of age and start buying, it's game over for physical media.
And honestly, I don't think the masses need "worthy" HD. They put up with hugely compressed cable and satellite, for pete's sake, or run their DVDs (or heaven forbid, VCRs) on their HD flatscreens. Blu-ray isn't necessarily a big priority for them.
Good points.wink.gif

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post #23 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

4k will come out and the cycle will start again.

We'll have to see what the initial adoption rate would be. Blu-ray was a huge hit with the HT crowd, but not so much with the general buying public. I think it would depend on how fast they can roll out the 4K displays, and whether that can gain traction in the marketplace over the existing 1080p sets.

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post #24 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 12:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TWD View Post

4k will come out and the cycle will start again.

4K is a justification to keep profit margins up on flatscreen devices, nothing more. The benefit to the average consumer is ZERO. And while it will eventually replace older HD formats, it's not going to be the savior manufactures are claiming. Adoption is going to be slow to non-existent.

How many consumers are going to be dolling out cash for 80"+ screens? Or sit less than two feet away from their 40"?
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post #25 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 01:10 PM
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There is no excuse for bandwidth being a problem. That is what you get when you get a few dinosaur big companies monopolizing broadband service. Some communities who were lucky to have leaders with foresight have community owned fiber which they lease back to the "big" companies. It probably also helps keep their budgets in the black. Unfortunately too many community leaders are real luddites when it comes to tech. And then you have the problem of the monopolies wanting to come in and run the show.

As far as 4K goes it is entirely a marketing thing. Sure it will look better than 2K but they don't offer it for that reason but as referenced to sell more product. It's all about bragging rights.
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post #26 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 02:20 PM
 
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To get BD picture quality over the internet all they need to do is use the new video compression codec H.265.
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post #27 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 03:45 PM
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To get BD picture quality over the internet all they need to do is use the new video compression codec H.265.

What about lossless audio?
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post #28 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 04:24 PM
 
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What about lossless audio?

They can leave that to BD the optical disc and use Dolby Digital Plus for streaming.
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post #29 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

What about lossless audio?
I get flack for this in every thread I mention it in, but if I switched your movie from lossless to lossy while you left the room, you'd never know.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #30 of 1422 Old 08-24-2012, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

I get flack for this in every thread I mention it in, but if I switched your movie from lossless to lossy while you left the room, you'd never know.

My ears? Yeah. redface.gif

But that's not really the point, is it? This is our hobby. Getting it as perfect as it can be is why we do these preposterously expensive and ridiculous things isn't it? Because maybe, just maybe, the micron of improvement we generate from the outrageously extravagant pursuit of perfection is noticeable even on a subconscious layer. Our friends might notice, or it might just be flattery. Might be their perceptions are colored by the mere appearance of gear they'd never even know existed, much less buying for themselves.

Whatever. I want my frakking lossless audio and streaming satisfaction depends on my getting it. Even if my only actual, quantifiable appreciation of it comes from a sine curve.
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