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post #1 of 70 Old 10-25-2012, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Ayn Rand's visionary Science Fiction novel Atlas Shrugged II: The Strike (2012) is highly relevent and timely. The year is 2017 and the country is in serious trouble. See if any of these sound familiar:

1) Unrest in the Middle East, causing the cost of oil to be ruinously high.
2) Serious double-digit unemployment.
3) Rapid inflation of the dollar currency.
4) The flight of manufacturing jobs offshore.
5) A sickly auto industry, not viable without government sponsorship.
6) Banks that refuse to make loans.
7) A corrupt major political party determined to redistribute wealth from those that earned it to those that refuse to work.
8) A positive cabal composed of corrupt politicians, labor leaders, scientists, educators, and industrialists.
9) The exploitation of oil shale to replace conventional oil wells.
Etc. etc.

The accuracy of Ayn Rand's 1957 novel in predicting the America of today is truely astonishing. One could easily see today's trends actually making things this bad in five more years.

Ayn Rand (pen name of Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum) saw first hand the flaws with the creed of the Russian Revolution ("From each according to his talent, To each according to his need"). She sought to warn the citizens of her adopted country against the foolishness of an economic system manipulated to ensure equal results.

Like the first part of the novel, AS II is shot in the digital domain and is best viewed in a digital theater, I saw this superb digital presentation on a Sony 4K projector at my favorite independent cinema.

For some reason, AS II was totally recast and has a different Director. The only continuity is Writer/Producer Brian Patrick O'Toole, who is also a writer for Fangoria magazine and otherwise appears to have worked on mainly Horror films.

I prefer the main characters cast in Atlas Shrugged Part 1 (2011) for the most part. I thought Taylor Schilling made a better and more convincing Dagny. Although Grant Bowler as Rearden was not especially impressive, he was way better than Jason Beghe in AS II, whose dialog was often mumbled and never crisp (the man sounds like a lifelong heavy smoker). Because some of you probably want to know: Esai Morales plays Francisco d'Anconia in AS II (a bit of casting I thoroughly approve of) and his famous "money speech" is present, although much abbreviated to possibly 1/4th the text in the novel version.

The plot picks up with the disappearance of Ellis Wyatt at the end of AS I, then ends when Dagny meets John Galt. Reportedly AS III is in pre-production.

Timely, interesting, and thought provoking, I reccomend you see this one before it disappears. I was one of seven people (all over 50 years of age) in the theater only thirteen days after the premiere.

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post #2 of 70 Old 10-26-2012, 06:41 AM
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Part I was one of the most boring movies I've ever seen. The world revolves with steam trains? Seriously?
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post #3 of 70 Old 10-26-2012, 06:51 AM
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More propaganda. Just what we need. rolleyes.gif

I look forward to the day when the brutal fascism of Ayn Rand is as universally discredited as the works of Lenin. Both sought to exploit the working class for the ends of a powerful elite class of oligarchs who would own all the money and all the power. At the moment, Rand enjoys a new respectabiltiy among todays corporate plutocrats - she speaks their universal language - but this too shall fade, "movies" like this, probably funded by the Koch brothers or their equivalent, notwithstanding.
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post #4 of 70 Old 10-26-2012, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

Ayn Rand's visionary Science Fiction novel Atlas Shrugged II: The Strike (2012) is highly relevent and timely. The year is 2017 and the country is in serious trouble. See if any of these sound familiar:
1) Unrest in the Middle East, causing the cost of oil to be ruinously high.
2) Serious double-digit unemployment.
3) Rapid inflation of the dollar currency.
4) The flight of manufacturing jobs offshore.
5) A sickly auto industry, not viable without government sponsorship.
6) Banks that refuse to make loans.
7) A corrupt major political party determined to redistribute wealth from those that earned it to those that refuse to work.
8) A positive cabal composed of corrupt politicians, labor leaders, scientists, educators, and industrialists.
9) The exploitation of oil shale to replace conventional oil wells.
Etc. etc.
The accuracy of Ayn Rand's 1957 novel in predicting the America of today is truely astonishing.
There is another very, very popular book that has been around a long, long time, and every year, for as long as anyone can remember, you hear about the doom and gloom prophesies that are about to happen at any moment; the signs are everywhere!!! They have yet to happen, but that doesn’t stop the paranoid, negative faction from standing on their soapbox and twisting and turning everything that happens to some way fit into the mold of what they want to believe.

Have you forgotten the 1970’s, Gary?
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post #5 of 70 Old 10-26-2012, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Part I was one of the most boring movies I've ever seen. The world revolves with steam trains? Seriously?
The movie is based on a book that used a story about steam trains as a smokescreen for a political philosophy.
It isn't about literature or cinematic art.

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More propaganda. Just what we need. rolleyes.gif
I look forward to the day when the brutal fascism of Ayn Rand is as universally discredited as the works of Lenin. Both sought to exploit the working class for the ends of a powerful elite class of oligarchs who would own all the money and all the power. At the moment, Rand enjoys a new respectabiltiy among todays corporate plutocrats - she speaks their universal language - but this too shall fade, "movies" like this, probably funded by the Koch brothers or their equivalent, notwithstanding.
As the demographics of America continues to change, the movement she helped spawn will fade away...
Eventually, they will have to surrender or will be put to the sword (metaphorically speaking).

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post #6 of 70 Old 10-26-2012, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

There is another very, very popular book that has been around a long, long time, and every year, for as long as anyone can remember, you hear about the doom and gloom prophesies that are about to happen at any moment; the signs are everywhere!!! They have yet to happen, but that doesn’t stop the paranoid, negative faction from standing on their soapbox and twisting and turning everything that happens to some way fit into the mold of what they want to believe.
Have you forgotten the 1970’s, Gary?

Please point to which of Gary's points that aren't happening now.

In space, no one can hear you scream . . .
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post #7 of 70 Old 10-26-2012, 12:00 PM
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Please point to which of Gary's points that aren't happening now.

All of them, to an extent. Either they're flat out not happening (#3 for one example), or they are diminishing (#2 for example), or they make a false connection (#1 for example), or the apocalyptic effects of them are exaggerated or twisted for effect, etc. The True Believers will see whatever they want, of course, as True Believers usually do. They create their own alternate reality based on their preconceived beliefs. That's why there's still an audience for Ayn Rand's books and, now, films based on them.
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post #8 of 70 Old 10-26-2012, 12:34 PM
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Please point to which of Gary's points that aren't happening now.
Would LOVE to, but it's against Forum Rules to discuss politics.

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post #9 of 70 Old 10-26-2012, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 73shark View Post

Please point to which of Gary's points that aren't happening now.

1)Unrest in the Middle East, causing the cost of oil to be ruinously high.
2) Serious double-digit unemployment.
3) Rapid inflation of the dollar currency.
4) The flight of manufacturing jobs offshore.
5) A sickly auto industry, not viable without government sponsorship.
6) Banks that refuse to make loans.
7) A corrupt major political party determined to redistribute wealth from those that earned it to those that refuse to work.
8) A positive cabal composed of corrupt politicians, labor leaders, scientists, educators, and industrialists.
9) The exploitation of oil shale to replace conventional oil wells.

With the exception of #4 (un-American), all happened in the 1970’s. And Capitalism survived. Which is what this whole hoopla is about - the fear of Communism, Socialism, or Marxism taking over America. I call paranoid BS. Which explains my previous analogy.

All listed above are obvious, but to refresh the memory on a few...

5) Chrysler Corporation Loan Guarantee Act of 1979. In 1983, Chrysler paid off the loans that had been guaranteed by US taxpayers. The Treasury was also $350 million richer.

7) This is the mantra every time a Dem becomes President. Simply put: A certain segment loses their ability to think for themselves. IOW – lemmings.

9) Aggressive worldwide shale oil production began in the 1930’s and peaked in the 1970’s. It is on the rise once again.

Capitalism will survive; get over it. If you don’t believe it will then you don’t believe in the Constitution and the will of the American people.

Gary had his say and so have I. Lets stick to the movie.
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post #10 of 70 Old 10-26-2012, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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This is a thread about the movie Atlas Shrugged II: The Strike. I was carefull not to make any political comments when I wrote the original message.

To everyone else: your comments about the book Atlas Shrugged are not only wrong (it's one of the most famous books of the 20th century, it has been continuously in print for 65 years, and among other things it was chosen by YOUR professors to instruct all of YOU - who otherwise were so blinded by ideology that you never would have chosen to read it) they are off-topic to this thread.

Your comments about Atlas Shrugged, Part I are also off-topic to THIS thread, unless you are contrasting the two films.

In fact if anybody else has actually SEEN THIS MOVIE and is therefore qualified to have a valid opinion, please speak up. I would be gratefull if you would express your opinions about the accuracy of my review.

I happen to think that Ayn Rand was eerily accurate in her projection of the modern world, written more than 65 years ago. The movies both suffer from a low budget and a hasty, abbreviated shooting schedule. Yet so strong was the original work that the quality shows through the script, the less-than-perfect acting, and post-production.

I sincerely suggest you watch this movie, and if you do, I'll be glad to discuss it. Otherwise, please keep your obviously ignorant, uninformed, and blinded-by-ideology comments to yourselves.

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post #11 of 70 Old 10-26-2012, 02:18 PM
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None of my professors pushed those books on their students. eek.gif Although I did read The Fountainhead (twice) during my youth because I fancied myself a kindred spirit with Howard Roark (then I grew up). I read as much of Atlas Shrugged as I could stomach. One of our VP candidates is quite a fan, as I understand it. I'm sure he'll see it; maybe he'll comment.
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Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

To everyone else: your comments about the book Atlas Shrugged are not only wrong (it's one of the most famous books of the 20th century, it has been continuously in print for 65 years, and among other things it was chosen by YOUR professors to instruct all of YOU - who otherwise were so blinded by ideology that you never would have chosen to read it)
HO-HO-HO...
"ignorant and uninformed" eh?

My professors "instructed" me to read A.S.?rolleyes.gif
Ah swing and ah miss....STRIKE 1.
I have almost 6 years of college and 3 degrees (B.A. Business Management, B.S. Accounting, and AAS Management).
NOT ONCE did a professor recommend reading Ayn Rand.

"so blinded by ideology that you never would have chosen read it?"rolleyes.gif
STRIKE 2.
A friend of mine encouraged me to read it years ago.
I got a third of the through and put it down.
A.S. is about as interesting as my morning beer farts.

You continue to insult people by making blanket statements about what others might think or do.
Sad, really....
STRIKE 3.

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post #13 of 70 Old 10-26-2012, 05:00 PM
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The accuracy of Ayn Rand's 1957 novel in predicting the America of today is truely astonishing.

Did you even bother to read the book? You are taking the film's swipe of current times and grafting it on the 1957 book.

The only actual prediction in the book is that nationalizing US passenger rail service would cause the economy to meltdown, but the well known communist Richard Nixon did it anyway in the 70s. The book is basically a 861 page editorial about that single topic.

The things you posted about, except the cabal, were either written in passing a couple of times or not at all. As for Shale oil, it was going through a production boom at the time she was writing the book thanks to the bastions of capitalism Estonia, the Soviet Union & China and has been a shadow of those days since. And if you take oil experts current estimates Shale oil will still be a fraction of crude oil production 20 years from now.

But hey, enjoy Part II's even worse then Part I's per theater bo take. Anyway, thanks for implying Obombem invented economic downturns.
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This is a thread about the movie Atlas Shrugged II: The Strike. I was carefull not to make any political comments when I wrote the original message.

Your first post was in it's entirety political, in fact dripping with it, and now you want no one to rebut your bogus claims.
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post #14 of 70 Old 10-26-2012, 05:10 PM
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None of my professors pushed those books on their students. eek.gif Although I did read The Fountainhead (twice) during my youth because I fancied myself a kindred spirit with Howard Roark (then I grew up). I read as much of Atlas Shrugged as I could stomach. One of our VP candidates is quite a fan, as I understand it. I'm sure he'll see it; maybe he'll comment.

Actually the VP candidate disowned Rand when it was pointed out she was a rabid atheist and pro-abortion, of which Gary did not bother to mention.
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post #15 of 70 Old 10-26-2012, 09:21 PM
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I would voice an opinion on this movie, or it's predecessor, but having read the book that it was based on, I would rather not subject myself to any film based such right wing horse crap.

Instead, I will post these ratings from Rotten Tomatoes:

Tomatometer: 5% (based on 20 reviews)
Audience: 79% (based on 5,384 votes)

Domestic Total as of Oct. 25, 2012: $3,113,138


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post #16 of 70 Old 10-27-2012, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I despair for our country, that people would display such hatred for someone else they do not know over a simple ideological difference. All Ayn Rand ever said was that people are entitled to whatever they earn, and that if they don't earn it, they are not entitled to it. It is the essence of what makes America great.

Their names were John D. Rockefeller, Cornelius Vanderbilt, Andrew Carnegie, Henry Ford and J.P. Morgan. These were the men who built America as we know it today. Their empires rose from the ashes of another great ideological conflict, the Civil War. Their time spanned the period from the Civil War up to the First World War. These men took what up until then could only have been described as a failed experiment in Democracy, and turned it into the greatest country the world had ever seen.

Then in another part of the world, the writings of an obscure pair of German philosophers (Karl Heinrich Marx and Friedrich Engels) inspired the Russian Revolution. Witness to the bone-chilling violence of the Bolsheviks was a young Russian girl, Ayn Rand. She had the misfortune to be Middle Class, and thus her family lost everything.

Some claim that the world-wide economic conniption we call the Great Depression was the result of large central banks in America and Europe manipulating the economy to prevent the spread of Russian-style Bolshevism to the rest of the Western World. Whatever the truth may be, it had that effect.

Meanwhile the policies of FDR had the effect of adding many Socialist ideals into the American consciousness. The philosophy of "entitlement", meaning that I am entitled to a share of somebody else's earnings because we both live in the same country. American Socialism is the light version of European Socialism which is the light version of the philosophy of Marx and Engels as expressed in their books Das Kapital and The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State.

The ideological divide grows ever greater, as you have read here in this thread in this Forum. I say to those of you with the patience to have read this far, that no one is entitled to the rewards for the work of another. You need to think this through in your own head, and make up your own mind. We are all among the most fortunate of men, to have lived in this time and in this country, and to have enjoyed the greatest freedoms and the greatest wealth that have ever been known in the history of the world.

The time of plenty is ending with the end of cheap fossil energy. There are today seven billion and more humans on a globe that can sustain less than one billion, long term. We are about to enter an era when more people than have ever lived in the history of the world will perish in a relatively short period. We enter this period sharply divided into the two ideological camps I have described.

Make up your own mind about this. Viewing this pair (soon to be trilogy) of films will start that process.

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post #17 of 70 Old 10-27-2012, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
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...please keep your obviously ignorant, uninformed, and blinded-by-ideology comments to yourselves.
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I despair for our country, that people would display such hatred for someone else they do not know over a simple ideological difference.


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post #19 of 70 Old 10-27-2012, 12:03 PM
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I thought this was Cloud Atlas.
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post #20 of 70 Old 10-27-2012, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

I despair for our country, that people would display such hatred for someone else they do not know over a simple ideological difference. All Ayn Rand ever said was that people are entitled to whatever they earn, and that if they don't earn it, they are not entitled to it. It is the essence of what makes America great.

She also said this, as you can plainly see:

Just another pearl of wisdom from the twisted mind of Ayn Rand.


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post #21 of 70 Old 10-27-2012, 03:58 PM
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AS II was a much better production in all respects than the first installment.The movie should be entered as a movie, IMO, as Rands' philosophy suffers greatly in the truncation from the prose, as illustrated by the Money Speech's short shrift in the production. The speech reads well, but would be much too preachy if repeated in its entirety on film, so I can see why it was shortened to irrelevance. The 60 page speech by John Galt will obviously receive the same fate. Still, the basic theme of Rand that collectivist thievery is self-defeating, and should be, plays well. The story is actually an allegory as opposed to Sci-Fi and has be approached as such.

.........

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post #22 of 70 Old 10-27-2012, 05:06 PM
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Still, the basic theme of Rand that collectivist thievery is self-defeating, and should be, plays well.

Actually, the basic theme I've always gotten from Rand (and her enthusiastic disciples) is that plutocratic thievery is self-sustaining, given enough political power, and pays well.
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post #23 of 70 Old 10-27-2012, 06:30 PM
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A.S. is about as interesting as my morning beer farts.

Actually that does sound rather interesting biggrin.gif

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post #24 of 70 Old 10-27-2012, 06:30 PM
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Actually, the basic theme I've always gotten from Rand (and her enthusiastic disciples) is that plutocratic thievery is self-sustaining, given enough political power, and pays well.

You will be a fan of the "Fair Share Act" and Wesley Mouch (a Paul Krugman doppleganger) in AS II then. You might like this installment of the trilogy.The act says basically you cannot buy, sell, or produce more than what is labeled a fair share for all of society and must sell your products to anyone who wants it.Who determines this? The government. Part III may not be for you though, as government force fails to coerce the producers to be subjigated to the demands of takers.

.........

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post #25 of 70 Old 10-27-2012, 06:40 PM
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I've found that those who would disparage Nobel Laureate (and NY Times columnist) Paul Krugman, who predicted the Great Recession and its causes with uncanny accuracy, are not really angry at him for being wrong - they're angry at him for being right. As to the rest, let's just kindly suggest you mistake who the producers actually are, which makes you mistake who the takers really are.
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A.S. is about as interesting as my morning beer farts.
Actually that does sound rather interesting biggrin.gif
I see you haven't lost your sense of humor CW....wink.gif

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I've found that those who would disparage Nobel Laureate (and NY Times columnist) Paul Krugman, who predicted the Great Recession and its causes with uncanny accuracy, are not really angry at him for being wrong - they're angry at him for being right. As to the rest, let's just kindly suggest you mistake who the producers actually are, which makes you mistake who the takers really are.
There must be N.C. laws against people from Charlotte who run with scissors.tongue.gif

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post #27 of 70 Old 10-27-2012, 08:18 PM
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There must be N.C. laws against people from Charlotte who run with scissors.tongue.gif

Not if they're pointing down. wink.gif
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Not if they're pointing down. wink.gif
I thought DOWN was UP....oh wait, that's SOUTH Carolina...biggrin.gif

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post #29 of 70 Old 10-27-2012, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

I thought DOWN was UP....oh wait, that's SOUTH Carolina...biggrin.gif

That's where I'll be living next year. Weep for me. tongue.gif
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post #30 of 70 Old 10-27-2012, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

That's where I'll be living next year. Weep for me. tongue.gif
To be honest, I've never been.

In spite of spending a horrible winter in SW Missouri 30 years ago, I have been a Westerner my entire life.

Someday, I hope to be a dumba$$ tourist in the Zombielands east of the Mississippi...but that's as far as it goes.

From what I have read, heard, and seen on the boob tube, I am not inspired to be adventurous beyond that.wink.gif

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