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post #271 of 476 Old 12-11-2012, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

Didn't read the novel. Totally went over my head from the movie. Interesting. If that is in fact the case, the intent or whatever, IMO they really missed a great opportunity to develop the script around that. It would have been a very compelling storyline.

I didn't read it either....in fact I only recently realized there was such a novel (but being Lucasfilm, of course there is a novel...probably an action figure, too). But the Darth Plageius tale Palpatine tells Anakin in Ep III does more than just hint @ the concept, although the focus is kept more on how Anakin can keep Padme alive. IIRC, there was a tad more of the conversation - although Palpatine doesn't come out & fully introduce himself as "Daddy" to Anakin - in the screenplay that never made the finished film. Similar to the somewhat better explanation of "Force ghosts" that was in the EPIII script, yet never fully completed for the final cut (Yoda communing w/ the spirit of QuiGonJinn, who states he will teach Yoda how to "become one w/ the Force" - i.e. disappear when you die in order to reprise your role later). All we got in the film was Yoda telling ObiWan that Kenobi's former master has taught him a pretty sick magic trick.

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post #272 of 476 Old 12-16-2012, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

Going by your logic, GL can bring up anything he wishes, and say it was always a part of the SW universe, it was just never brought up before. This is flawed logic in my opinion.
That's not really what I said. In the case of Midi-chlorians, there's documented proof that they were always part of how he viewed the force, whether it was shown onscreen prior to The Phantom Menace or not.
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If we weren't talking about a series of movies, where midichlorians could have been brought up any number of times, then I'd feel differently.
Where would he have used this information in Empire or Jedi? We already knew that Luke was strong with the force, as had been his father.
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Midichlorians feels grafted on as an afterthought and really should have been left out. And yes, the mysticism and mystery of the force was severely crippled by the addition of midichlorians.
How so?

  • We always knew that strenghth in the force could run along bloodlines, indicating a physical connection
  • The Jedi training we had seen in the first two movies demonstrated the connection between the force and the physical being
  • Midi-chlorians simply provide that conduit between the spiritual and the physical
  • The will of the force remains as mysterious as it ever was
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Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

I don't see it the fact that midichlorians showing limited screen time as an admission of them not being a major focus of the movie. To my eyes, it was a very large part of the movie, and the going forward, the series in general. The fact that they had so little screen time and still be a big deal should tell you how important it is to SW as a whole.
Part of the reason for that was how certain fans reacted, not listening what was said, not thinking it through, and then using that "flaw" to hammer home the idea that Lucas had lost it. For those that left the movie hearing in their mind that the force was just a bunch of thingies in peoples' cells, it would be a major revelation, however mistaken.
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Why people keep going back to GL having created SW, as a good reason for him being a part of it going forward...I don't know. Yes, we know he created it, but what he's done with it is a testament to the fact that better minds need to take the reins and create better things based on what we have.
I hesitate to say this, but if you can't find enough good work in what he created, maybe Star Wars just isn't your thing. There's a lot of science fiction and fantasy out there, find something you like and enjoy it.

Scott

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post #273 of 476 Old 12-16-2012, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by tokerblue View Post

Did we really need to learn about midi-chlorians?
Star Wars
Luke Skywalker: The Force?
Obi-Wan: The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.
Compare that to...
The Phantom Menace
Anakin Skywalker: Master, sir, I heard Yoda talking about midi-chlorians. I've been wondering...what are midi-chlorians?
Qui-Gon Jinn: Midi-chlorians are a microcopic lifeform that reside within all living cells and communicates with the Force.
Anakin Skywalker: They live inside of me?
Qui-Gon Jinn: In your cells, yes. We are symbionts with them-
Anakin Skywalker: Symbionts?
Qui-Gon Jinn: Life forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to you, telling you the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear them speaking to you.
Anakin Skywalker: I don't understand.
Qui-Gon Jinn: With time and training, Annie, you will. You will.
To be fair, those quote are from two different Jedi's, with two different perspectives and possible understandings of the force, speaking to two different characters.

They also help show the differences between Qui-Gon and Yoda. It was one of the parts of the prequels that was interesting to me, and you can see the influence of both on Obi-Wan. Such differences in understanding and instruction are also reflected in the religious discussions we hear around us today. Take any two clergy, and you'll find differences among them, even if they're from the same denomination.

Scott

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post #274 of 476 Old 12-16-2012, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

Didn't read the novel. Totally went over my head from the movie. Interesting. If that is in fact the case, the intent or whatever, IMO they really missed a great opportunity to develop the script around that. It would have been a very compelling storyline.
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Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

I didn't read it either....in fact I only recently realized there was such a novel (but being Lucasfilm, of course there is a novel...probably an action figure, too). But the Darth Plageius tale Palpatine tells Anakin in Ep III does more than just hint @ the concept, although the focus is kept more on how Anakin can keep Padme alive. IIRC, there was a tad more of the conversation - although Palpatine doesn't come out & fully introduce himself as "Daddy" to Anakin - in the screenplay that never made the finished film. Similar to the somewhat better explanation of "Force ghosts" that was in the EPIII script, yet never fully completed for the final cut (Yoda communing w/ the spirit of QuiGonJinn, who states he will teach Yoda how to "become one w/ the Force" - i.e. disappear when you die in order to reprise your role later). All we got in the film was Yoda telling ObiWan that Kenobi's former master has taught him a pretty sick magic trick.
I hadn't read about it either, but it seemed quite clear that that's what Palpatine was implying during the opera scene. That's one of the reasons why that scene is one of my favorites from the film. Quite chilling and, in it's own way, almost as powerful as the "I am your father" exchange in Empire.

Scott

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post #275 of 476 Old 12-17-2012, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

  • We always knew that strenghth in the force could run along bloodlines, indicating a physical connection
  • The Jedi training we had seen in the first two movies demonstrated the connection between the force and the physical being
  • Midi-chlorians simply provide that conduit between the spiritual and the physical
  • The will of the force remains as mysterious as it ever was

Are you a religious person at all? How would you feel if I told you that there are micro-organisms in your blood that channel God's will to every human being? These micro-organisms can be measured objectively to provide an exact quantitative value of how much God loves you, which therefore proves that God loves some people more than others. Further, these micro-organisms are assigned at birth and passed down hereditarily. If you're born with a low God-love count, that number will never change and God will never love you very much, as proven with inarguable scientific accuracy.

Would that not demystify religion for you?

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post #276 of 476 Old 12-17-2012, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Are you a religious person at all? How would you feel if I told you that there are micro-organisms in your blood that channel God's will to every human being? These micro-organisms can be measured objectively to provide an exact quantitative value of how much God loves you, which therefore proves that God loves some people more than others. Further, these micro-organisms are assigned at birth and passed down hereditarily. If you're born with a low God-love count, that number will never change and God will never love you very much, as proven with inarguable scientific accuracy.
Would that not demystify religion for you?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/scienceonreligion/2012/04/god-spot-in-the-brain-more-like-god-spots/

No microorganisms or "channeling of God's will", but still.....

From the article:

Neurologists have long wondered whether a particular part of the brain can help explain a person’s experience of God. Stanley Koren and Michael Persinger, for example, famously developed the “God helmet,” a device that stimulated what they called “the God spot” and so induced its wearer to feel the presence of God. (Interestingly enough, the device had little effect on the popular atheist writer Richard Dawkins.) However, neuropsychologists Brick Johnstone and Bret Glass (both University of Missouri) challenge the plausibility of the “God spot,” arguing that spirituality involves many areas of the brain.

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post #277 of 476 Old 12-17-2012, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

To be fair, those quote are from two different Jedi's, with two different perspectives and possible understandings of the force, speaking to two different characters.
They also help show the differences between Qui-Gon and Yoda. It was one of the parts of the prequels that was interesting to me, and you can see the influence of both on Obi-Wan. Such differences in understanding and instruction are also reflected in the religious discussions we hear around us today. Take any two clergy, and you'll find differences among them, even if they're from the same denomination.
Scott

I am going along with you on this....but on the other hand, the exchange btwn QuiGon & Ani in Ep I could also be attributed to the "filler" GL himself has stated was required for TPM, being the one PT episode that had essentially the least amount of outline material from his original idea to draw from. Kept it short & sweet in Ep IV, because there was more plot to get on with.

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post #278 of 476 Old 12-17-2012, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Are you a religious person at all? How would you feel if I told you that there are micro-organisms in your blood that channel God's will to every human being? These micro-organisms can be measured objectively to provide an exact quantitative value of how much God loves you, which therefore proves that God loves some people more than others. Further, these micro-organisms are assigned at birth and passed down hereditarily. If you're born with a low God-love count, that number will never change and God will never love you very much, as proven with inarguable scientific accuracy.
Would that not demystify religion for you?
If we choose to believe what Obi-wan states, Midi-chlorians are what connects living beings with the force, and some have a higher concentration than others, I'm not sure why one would find that disturbing or upsetting. There are still so many unanswered questions: How many Midi-chlorians would one need to be force sensitive? Can one's Midi-chlorian's count increase or decrease over time? Is it a purely linear scale, or logarithmic? The Jedi appear to be celibate, so are high Midi-chlorian counts purely a result of genetics, or can they be otherwise manipulated?

But none of this really contradicts what was seen in the earlier movies. We were lead to believe that heredity plays a part. We knew that some individuals were more force-sensitive than others, but that all living things had a connection to it. We knew that through training and discipline, one's connection could become stronger. How does a physical link belie any of that?

Back to your example. I'm not sure I'd agree with the love part of your argument. It's not really analogous to the force, since we don't have a reason to believe that the force "loves" the living. Rather, it may be better thought of as how close one would be to God.

Without getting into any specific religion, we can find many individuals throughout history that have a much stronger connection to God than most others. If it were somehow possible to show a physical attribute that correlates to that closeness, why would it invalidate one's belief or make Him any less mystical? Does it tell us God's motives or will? Does it answer the question of creation? Or the nature of good and evil? Does it define the purpose of man? Do we know if that bond could be strengthened through meditation, other training, or acts of sacrifice? Would it make those with a lower count Godless, or would they just struggle more with their own personal faith and deeds? Would God care any less about them? Would he still listen to their prayers? Could those with average, or below average counts strengthen their connection by communal worship? How does free will fit into the equation - do those with higher counts still retain their ability to chose their own fates, or are their actions tightly governed?

So much would still remain unknown.

Just answering that one single aspect that seems to help explain the interface between God and man wouldn't solve the bigger questions shared by the faithful. So, no, it wouldn't demystify religion, only add a small piece to a very large puzzle.

Scott

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post #279 of 476 Old 12-17-2012, 10:03 PM
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I am going along with you on this....but on the other hand, the exchange btwn QuiGon & Ani in Ep I could also be attributed to the "filler" GL himself has stated was required for TPM, being the one PT episode that had essentially the least amount of outline material from his original idea to draw from. Kept it short & sweet in Ep IV, because there was more plot to get on with.
It also added to the rather heavy-handed theme of Episode I: Symbiosis.

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post #280 of 476 Old 01-03-2013, 09:38 PM
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At least now we know what he'll be doing in retirement....

George Lucas engaged to longtime girlfriend Mellody Hobson, who is 25 years younger than him (lucky guy).




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post #281 of 476 Old 01-04-2013, 05:59 AM
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I thought they were already married! Yeah, both Lucasfilm and Georgie boy are both in...uh...good hands. biggrin.gif
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post #282 of 476 Old 01-04-2013, 08:32 AM
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Wow. She needs to use her "powers-of-persuasion" to make him let go of the the franchise completely. Move on, already.

"I knew you'd say that"...*BLAM!*
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post #283 of 476 Old 01-04-2013, 08:49 AM
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Is this the reason he sold Lucasfilm to Disney? Because he didn't want his new wife to be entitled to half those assets when they inevitably divorce?

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post #284 of 476 Old 01-04-2013, 09:31 AM
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Is this the reason he sold Lucasfilm to Disney? Because he didn't want his new wife to be entitled to half those assets when they inevitably divorce?
Now that's just cynical....biggrin.gif

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post #285 of 476 Old 01-04-2013, 10:50 AM
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Please don't be that way. Let's encourage their relationship and assume the duration and in 10-15 years she'll obtain his assets the old fashioned way. She'll inherit them. biggrin.gif
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post #286 of 476 Old 01-04-2013, 10:57 AM
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Please don't be that way. Let's encourage their relationship and assume the duration and in 10-15 years she'll obtain his assets the old fashioned way. She'll inherit them. biggrin.gif
And that's even worse than Josh's comment...tongue.gif

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post #287 of 476 Old 01-04-2013, 11:05 AM
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Please don't be that way. Let's encourage their relationship and assume the duration and in 10-15 years she'll obtain his assets the old fashioned way. She'll inherit them. biggrin.gif

Hey! George is one month younger than I am and I certainly hope I have more than 10-15 years left.... smile.gif

Bobby 

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post #288 of 476 Old 01-04-2013, 02:07 PM
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Hey! George is one month younger than I am and I certainly hope I have more than 10-15 years left.... smile.gif

Did you see his fiance'? She doesn't exactly look...unhealthy. I'm sure he'll give it the ol' college try for a few years but eventually, the body just starts breaking down man. Having said that, we should all be so lucky.
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post #289 of 476 Old 01-05-2013, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm sure Freud is having a blast from his grave.
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post #290 of 476 Old 01-24-2013, 02:25 PM
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http://www.thewrap.com/movies/article/jj-abrams-set-direct-next-star-wars-film-exclusive-74596

Looks like the new Disney/Lucasfilm brain trust has in fact hired JJ Abrams to helm Ep VII, despite his reported reluctance to do so. It seems the Force is strong with Kathleen Kennedy when the Disney checkbook is in her pocket.

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post #291 of 476 Old 01-24-2013, 02:31 PM
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You beat me to it!

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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post #292 of 476 Old 01-24-2013, 02:56 PM
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Making the rounds on twitter...pic of the new opening crawl for Abrams' SW VII.

http://twitpic.com/bxy5k6

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post #293 of 476 Old 01-24-2013, 02:57 PM
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post #294 of 476 Old 01-24-2013, 03:19 PM
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I'm fine with JJ doing Star Wars. He knows what's up.

i don't know. not a big fan of his work.

if this doesn't go well, might we have some longing for george to return to the franchise.

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post #295 of 476 Old 01-24-2013, 03:37 PM
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I'm fine with JJ doing Star Wars. He knows what's up.

+1

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post #296 of 476 Old 01-24-2013, 03:58 PM
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No official confirmation yet though. When the Disney thing was announced it was up on the namesakes website. Nothing there. If true, I don't think Disney wanted it out there yet. Plus Abrahms is in the middle of another space epic from a competing studio. Wonder what this will do to the Bad Robot/Paramount relationship?

Paramount sunk a lot of money into the Trek reboot. I don't see Abrahms overseeing both franchises long term. I am guessing Star Wars will win out in the long term after the next Trek movie is released. If true, Paramount isn't going to be happy. Have a feeling that Trek 3 will not be a Bad Robot production.

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post #297 of 476 Old 01-24-2013, 03:59 PM
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OH BOY!

Bring on patient zero of ALFS!mad.giffrown.gif

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post #298 of 476 Old 01-24-2013, 04:47 PM
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Granted I am not sure this is legit but Abrams is awful, though I am sure they will be some who will think it's a great idea. After all the Jedi riding Abrams' 'trademark' Harley Davidson motorcycles will be awesome right? And he already had Star Trek characters doing Jedi jumps so of course making Jedi jump over tall buildings can only be better, sure the price to pay was making the Star Trek universe a mere backdrop for super-action but it was a small price to pay right?
Quote:
He did say "Star Wars" was the first movie that "blew my mind" in terms of special effects.

Nothing sums up Abrams' director skill sets like that. Anybody who thinks Abrams flicks are great dont know a good film from a hole in the ground.
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post #299 of 476 Old 01-24-2013, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by wuther View Post

Granted I am not sure this is legit but Abrams is awful, though I am sure they will be some who will think it's a great idea. After all the Jedi riding Abrams' 'trademark' Harley Davidson motorcycles will be awesome right? And he already had Star Trek characters doing Jedi jumps so of course making Jedi jump over tall buildings can only be better, sure the price to pay was making the Star Trek universe a mere backdrop for super-action but it was a small price to pay right?
Nothing sums up Abrams' director skill sets like that. Anybody who thinks Abrams flicks are great dont know a good film from a hole in the ground.
Apparently, SFX production is already underway....
http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_477_21-special-fx-probably-behind-famous-movie-scenes_p21/#6

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post #300 of 476 Old 01-24-2013, 06:10 PM
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I think J. J. is a good choice as well.

Now, I wonder what I'll do with all those great films in my yard come spring time.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
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