J.J. Abrams to Direct new Star Wars? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: How do you feel about JJ Abrams directing the new Star Wars films?
Very Interested ( think he is the best choice) 48 62.34%
Interested (You would prefer someone else, but still like Abram's work) 15 19.48%
Meh (Dont really want Abrams directing it but still will see the film) 10 12.99%
Peeved(Hate that Abrams is directing the new films) 4 5.19%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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post #91 of 295 Old 09-07-2013, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

Davy Jones, which to this day, is still one of the most jaw-dropping CG characters I've ever seen.
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post #92 of 295 Old 09-07-2013, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

No, this has nothing to do with bias. In fact I love CG by the way - but I love it when it's done right (Oblivion?...). Most of the time it's so over the top that no matter how good it looks, it still looks fake...


I agree about Star Trek though, it's extremely well done. As for The Avengers, I'm sorry but The Hulk looked, indeed, fake. Transformers 1-2-3 are also an example of "the perfect blend" between real and CG world, not to mention Davy Jones, which to this day, is still one of the most jaw-dropping CG characters I've ever seen.
He still looked CG to me but obviously better than many others. I'd say everyone doing CG characters in film should be taking notes from the fooken prawns in D9 wink.gif

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post #93 of 295 Old 09-07-2013, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

I'd say everyone doing CG characters in film should be taking notes from the fooken prawns in D9 wink.gif
Prawns were very well done.smile.gif

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post #94 of 295 Old 09-08-2013, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by benes View Post

How many of the numerous models in The Phantom Menace did you spot?

Episode One was full of miniature work. In fact, it used more models and miniatures than the first three Star Wars movies combined.

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post #95 of 295 Old 09-08-2013, 02:08 PM
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I know that. I'm asking how many models did you notice when you first saw the movie in 1999?

Everyone else here seems to think it was 100% cg. Even I will admit that I had no idea of the amount of model work until I watched the docs. And the same is true of Ep2 and 3 as well.

My point being people will complain about cg even when it doesn't exist. And it is used today in ways most viewers don't even realize. Superman's cape was 100% cg in the last movie. I didn't see anyone complaining about it looking fake. I also just watched the docs on the World War Z Blu-ray and practically every outdoor shot had cg. They made Scotland look like Philadelphia and a docked ship look like it was in the middle of the ocean. I wouldn't believe anyone outside of the VFX industry who told me they knew this was cg.

You do make some good points benes. In 1999, in ep. 1 I wasn't trying to count the models though, and If I were to guess, I saw about a dozen models that appeared to look authentic, without any major CG alterations. I think it was one of the first films to really hybrid the organic with the synthetic on a large scale, which does have people somewhat confused. Ep. 2 and especially Ep 3 looked pretty fake to me.......

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post #96 of 295 Old 09-08-2013, 06:16 PM
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It really bothers me when someone says a "character" such as the Hulk looks fake. Fake as compared to what, the "real" Hulk?

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post #97 of 295 Old 09-08-2013, 06:30 PM
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FWIW, I think the entire debate over CGI vs. "Real" is becoming a moot point in this day and age.

CG has made great advances, and as it has been pointed out by others, it's nearly impossible to tell the difference.
Granted, some CGI is better than others, but it's becoming a splitting-of-the-hairs situation pursued by those who should spend more time focusing on the totality of a movie, rather than the minutiae (aka, missing the forest for the trees).

Hollywood has ALWAYS been about illusion.wink.gif

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post #98 of 295 Old 09-09-2013, 12:21 AM
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I agree with you oink....and others....that CONTENT VS CG is no contest: Give me a real conversation and character development over ANY CG OR MODEL wink.gif

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post #99 of 295 Old 09-09-2013, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezzy View Post

It really bothers me when someone says a "character" such as the Hulk looks fake. Fake as compared to what, the "real" Hulk?

The "real Hulk" huh? You said that, not me! tongue.gif


It looked fake compared to a tangible "being" in the "real" world vs. a computer-generated character that, while looking amazingly cool, still doesn't seem to exist, because of its very nature (i.e CGI).
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post #100 of 295 Old 09-09-2013, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rezzy View Post

It really bothers me when someone says a "character" such as the Hulk looks fake. Fake as compared to what, the "real" Hulk?

you caught him in mid transformation, nobody looks good in mid transformation.

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post #101 of 295 Old 09-09-2013, 08:48 AM
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Overall, I believe the crux of the matter is a films reliance on CG. Some filmmakers will do something as small as Superman's cape. Other's will create an entire city or world even. And still others will create characters. There were times in LOTR where Gollum looked "less CGI" than others but rich storytelling more than made up the difference for such obviousness. Transformers 2 for the most part looked disturbingly real but the excessivness of it was not supported by the weaker story. Yeah, you could tell the Hulk was computer generated in The Avengers but the story and character were strong and convincing enough to not make it a focal point, at least not to me. With all the CGI in that movie I never felt like it was relied upon to tell the story but rather used as a tool or aid to help tell the story. I didn't feel that way for the Star Wars prequels.
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post #102 of 295 Old 09-09-2013, 08:56 AM
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Anyone with CGI issues needs to go back and look at the serialized Flash Gordon shorts or even the early Star Trek models hanging on a string. CGI has room to grow, but it's only a matter of time before the only differentiation will be your ability to catagory something as beyond reality. At some point, the actors we like the best will be CGI'd and they'll never grow old, for better or worse. Think of watching Tom Cruise 40 years from now, lol.
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post #103 of 295 Old 09-09-2013, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by billybobg View Post

Anyone with CGI issues needs to go back and look at the serialized Flash Gordon shorts or even the early Star Trek models hanging on a string. CGI has room to grow, but it's only a matter of time before the only differentiation will be your ability to catagory something as beyond reality. At some point, the actors we like the best will be CGI'd and they'll never grow old, for better or worse. Think of watching Tom Cruise 40 years from now, lol.

Look no further than Tron Legacy as an example of your Tom Cruise argument. I agree it's inevitable that we will see more CGI going forward and not less; although, it will be better quality as we would all expect.

Regarding your comment about models on a string. The point many will make is that the models are tangible and "real" so to speak. It's basically no different than a fake wall on a set. To a degree, no matter how fake or limited the model looks there is still a tangible realness that it adds to the film. Now, consider that that comment comes from a guy who was a you kid when Star Wars was first released so it's what I grew up on. That being said, I can't speak for others but I'm not stuck in my ways as to not recognize what CGI adds to film making. It absolutely can be a great thing. But I personally feel that some film makers are more into the technology rather than the film. And I feel that other film makers have simply gotten lazy about some things and go into that "Don't worry about it! We'll fix it with computers!" mindset.

I simply believe that actors are better with tangible things in front of them, even if it is a puppet or a model. I believe more care is taken to create good cinematography with the use of "limited" models as opposed to letting a computer dictate and direct the cinematography. Adding elements is one thing. Heck, even making one movie is one thing. But leave it at the creativity level and not the general movie making level. Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow comes to mind. It was great. It was interesting. It had a look. But I don't need or necessarily want every movie to look like that.
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post #104 of 295 Old 09-09-2013, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

Overall, I believe the crux of the matter is a films reliance on CG. Some filmmakers will do something as small as Superman's cape. Other's will create an entire city or world even. And still others will create characters. There were times in LOTR where Gollum looked "less CGI" than others but rich storytelling more than made up the difference for such obviousness. Transformers 2 for the most part looked disturbingly real but the excessivness of it was not supported by the weaker story. Yeah, you could tell the Hulk was computer generated in The Avengers but the story and character were strong and convincing enough to not make it a focal point, at least not to me. With all the CGI in that movie I never felt like it was relied upon to tell the story but rather used as a tool or aid to help tell the story. I didn't feel that way for the Star Wars prequels.

I completely agree. My Hulk example was just from a visual standpoint - it was simply not entirely convincing. But the movie was so much more it never was an issue. OTOH the prequels look like an ILM demo reel, but at least they had Hayden Christensen, who carried the movies just like Robert Downey Jr. does in IronMan/Avengers. wink.gif
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post #105 of 295 Old 09-09-2013, 12:59 PM
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Morph, I was eating some almonds while reading that. Almost choked. Call your shots next time! biggrin.gif
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post #106 of 295 Old 09-09-2013, 03:15 PM
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LOL! BTW, perhaps we should bring back Lou Ferrigno...

"I knew you'd say that"...*BLAM!*
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post #107 of 295 Old 09-09-2013, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

I completely agree. My Hulk example was just from a visual standpoint - it was simply not entirely convincing. But the movie was so much more it never was an issue. OTOH the prequels look like an ILM demo reel, but at least they had Hayden Christensen, who carried the movies just like Robert Downey Jr. does in IronMan/Avengers. wink.gif
Lol nice!

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post #108 of 295 Old 09-09-2013, 06:59 PM
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CGI or models, I don't care at this point. I just want the story and characters not to suck.

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post #109 of 295 Old 09-09-2013, 08:10 PM
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^^^ Exactly. I'll tolerate bad CG and poor models if I get a good story and characters in exchange. James Cameron's 'Aliens' had model work right out of one of those Gerry Anderson puppet shows (Thunderbirds), but remains one of my favourite movies of all time because of the terrific characters and story. With not much money to work with, they prioritized artistic elements (writing, acting, editing, directing) over the technical stuff.

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post #110 of 295 Old 09-10-2013, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

^^^ Exactly. I'll tolerate bad CG and poor models if I get a good story and characters in exchange. James Cameron's 'Aliens' had model work right out of one of those Gerry Anderson puppet shows (Thunderbirds), but remains one of my favourite movies of all time because of the terrific characters and story. With not much money to work with, they prioritized artistic elements (writing, acting, editing, directing) over the technical stuff.
No worries, he later trades in for fantastic visuals in the scifi version of Pocahontas rolleyes.gifwink.gif

As others have said I have confidence after seeing what JJ has done with ST that SW will be handled well. With the exception of Ep. III I can't really see anyone effing this up as bad as GL did with the prequel. My only concern as a die hard SW fan is that JJ overplays the "respect your origins" card as he did a bit with Into Darkness but again looking at the prequel disaster it's a minor gripe/concern.

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post #111 of 295 Old 09-10-2013, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

^^^ Exactly. I'll tolerate bad CG and poor models if I get a good story and characters in exchange. James Cameron's 'Aliens' had model work right out of one of those Gerry Anderson puppet shows (Thunderbirds), but remains one of my favourite movies of all time because of the terrific characters and story. With not much money to work with, they prioritized artistic elements (writing, acting, editing, directing) over the technical stuff.
Can't disagree.

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No worries, he later trades in for fantastic visuals in the scifi version of Pocahontas rolleyes.gifwink.gif
General, is it worth pointing out (ONCE AGAIN) the ENTIRE purpose of Avatar, from its VERY beginning, was to demonstrate the latest 3D technology????

Quote:
With the exception of Ep. III I can't really see anyone effing this up as bad as GL did with the prequel.
To be FAIR, none of the original SW trilogy would be confused with The Greatest Story Ever Told.......tongue.gif

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post #112 of 295 Old 09-10-2013, 09:10 AM
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Can't disagree.
General, is it worth pointing out (ONCE AGAIN) the ENTIRE purpose of Avatar, from its VERY beginning, was to demonstrate the latest 3D technology????
To be FAIR, none of the original SW trilogy Man of Steel Avengers ending Dark Knight Rises would be confused with The Greatest Story Ever Told.......tongue.gif
3d tech... right! My mistake tongue.gif

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post #113 of 295 Old 09-14-2013, 08:37 PM
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Did you hear the wacky rumor that JJ Abrams is thinking of doing a remake of "The Shining"?

Here's an early production concept:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
tongue.gif



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post #114 of 295 Old 09-15-2013, 12:40 AM
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Did you hear the wacky rumor that JJ Abrams is thinking of doing a remake of "The Shining"?

Here's an early production concept:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
tongue.gif


No kidding....

A few days ago, I re-watched his 2 ST movies.
I'm sorry, but his lens flairs flares add NOTHING....
In fact, it pulls me out of the movies and severely impacts my Suspension of Disbelief, which is something I require for fantasy.

Yeah, what we REALLY need is Star Wars + Lens Flairs Flares.rolleyes.gif

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post #115 of 295 Old 09-15-2013, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

No kidding....

A few days ago, I re-watched his 2 ST movies.
I'm sorry, but his lens flairs flares add NOTHING....
In fact, it pulls me out of the movies and severely impacts my Suspension of Disbelief, which is something I require for fantasy.

Yeah, what we REALLY need is Star Wars + Lens Flairs Flares.rolleyes.gif

Yep, the lens flares are a major distraction. When asked about his movies, JJ replied,
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
th?id=H.4686085347544057&pid=1.7

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post #116 of 295 Old 09-15-2013, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Yep, the lens flares are a major distraction. When asked about his movies, JJ replied,
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
th?id=H.4686085347544057&pid=1.7
It's irritating that a guy with obvious talent can't get over himself and feels compelled to resort to "look at ME!" gimmickry.

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post #117 of 295 Old 09-16-2013, 08:40 AM
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I (and possibly I alone) don't have much of an issue with the lens flares. It certainly didn't pull me out of story in any way. For me, like the interpretation of any art form, it's all about perspective. Yeah, I guess I'd call it a gimmick but I don't have a problem with any artist putting their "signature" (if you want to call it that) on their work. Some things take me out of the story and some things take me out of the film. For me the lens flares did neither and I'd even go as far as to say they added a certain "style" to things.

Now, based on how I feel about the flares, and my opinions on how and why they work (or are at least acceptable), I really don't feel that they would apply in the new Star Wars movies. Star Trek is new, clean, smooth, etc. Star Wars is an "old" and textured environment.
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post #118 of 295 Old 09-16-2013, 10:27 AM
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I agree Closet Geek. While not always necessary, I think these lens flare effects (real and/or not) sometimes add realism to the image (considering the "image" in question is often full of CG). It helps put all "elements" in the same visual world.
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post #119 of 295 Old 09-16-2013, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

I (and possibly I alone) don't have much of an issue with the lens flares. It certainly didn't pull me out of story in any way. For me, like the interpretation of any art form, it's all about perspective. Yeah, I guess I'd call it a gimmick but I don't have a problem with any artist putting their "signature" (if you want to call it that) on their work. Some things take me out of the story and some things take me out of the film. For me the lens flares did neither and I'd even go as far as to say they added a certain "style" to things.

Now, based on how I feel about the flares, and my opinions on how and why they work (or are at least acceptable), I really don't feel that they would apply in the new Star Wars movies. Star Trek is new, clean, smooth, etc. Star Wars is an "old" and textured environment.
REAL filmmaking artists don't feel a need to put their "signature" on every other frame.
That's called EGO.

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I agree Closet Geek. While not always necessary, I think these lens flare effects (real and/or not) sometimes add realism to the image (considering the "image" in question is often full of CG). It helps put all "elements" in the same visual world.
Lemme see....
A "gimmick" that constantly reminds the viewer there is a non-organic camera between them and a VISUAL story-world that calls for Suspension of Disbelief adds "realism?"
Hmmmmmm......eek.gif

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post #120 of 295 Old 09-16-2013, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Lemme see....
A "gimmick" that constantly reminds the viewer there is a non-organic camera between them and a VISUAL story-world that calls for Suspension of Disbelief adds "realism?"
Hmmmmmm......eek.gif

Yes it adds realism because both the CG and what's shot in camera are mixed together in a more seamless way, instead of a glossy, superficial CG look. I'm not saying it 's the ultimate thing, but the way Abrams uses it in his Star Trek films doesn't bother me - it *was* distracting in Super 8.



http://www.craveonline.com/film/interviews/569755-exclusive-j-j-abrams-apologizes-for-his-lens-flares
hehe, ILM even had to remove some of them... smile.gif

"I know I get a lot of grief for that," says Abrams. "But I'll tell you, there are times when I'm working on a shot, I think, 'Oh this would be really cool… with a lens flare.' But I know it's too much, and I apologize. I'm so aware of it now. I was showing my wife an early cut of Star Trek Into Darkness and there was this one scene where she was literally like, 'I just can't see what's going on. I don't understand what that is.' I was like, 'Yeah, I went too nuts on this.'"

"This is how stupid it was," J.J. Abrams added. "I actually had to use ILM [Industrial Light & Magic] to remove lens flare in a couple of shots, which is, I know, moronic. But I think admitting you're an addict is the first step towards recovery."

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