The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 223 Old 03-01-2013, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Part II of the second Middle Earth adaption trilogy is due out December 13, 2013.

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post #2 of 223 Old 03-01-2013, 08:46 AM
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That's a trailer for The Unexpected Journey though...
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post #3 of 223 Old 03-01-2013, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry about that. The clip was falsely titled. I updated the first post with info on the trailer's future release.

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post #4 of 223 Old 06-11-2013, 12:12 PM
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The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Official Teaser Trailer [HD]
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post #5 of 223 Old 06-11-2013, 02:05 PM
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I'm just now in the new days going to get around to watching the first one. I imagine I'll be just as disappointed in it as I was with LOTRs ultimately. I just know the books far too well to accept the watering down of the stories. But, I'm going to give it a try and see what happens. Worst case it'll probably be some good eye candy.

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post #6 of 223 Old 06-13-2013, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post

I'm just now in the new days going to get around to watching the first one. I imagine I'll be just as disappointed in it as I was with LOTRs ultimately. I just know the books far too well to accept the watering down of the stories. But, I'm going to give it a try and see what happens. Worst case it'll probably be some good eye candy.

I'm interested in hearing how you feel about it, seeing as how you are disappointed in the LOTR movies, and your intimacy with the Hobbit book. I haven't read any of them, but I loved the LOTR movies, but was greatly disappointed with The Hobbit.

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post #7 of 223 Old 06-13-2013, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post

I'm just now in the new days going to get around to watching the first one. I imagine I'll be just as disappointed in it as I was with LOTRs ultimately. I just know the books far too well to accept the watering down of the stories. But, I'm going to give it a try and see what happens. Worst case it'll probably be some good eye candy.

wow. I guess you were wanted a 60 hour movie? That's how long it would take to follow the book in all its detail.
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post #8 of 223 Old 06-13-2013, 02:26 PM
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It's hard to explain if you aren't someone who knows the books (and the books behind those books, e.g. the Silmarillion, the Lost Tales, etc...) intimately. I pretty much read through the whole bunch about once a year. I have the same reaction to any rendition of Dune so far as well, though even more so, making me almost puke honestly. LOTRs wasn't that bad, but it just seems to seriously lack something the books have. Of course it has lots of eye candy, and people can enjoy it on that level easily enough. But it just seemed extremely two dimensional and simplified to me compared to the book.

Ultimately, I think it's inevitable. They have to pander to some degree in these kinds of movies because, if they don't bring in a lot of people who haven't read they books, they can't make their money back. So it has to be dumbed down considerably just to be made at all, unless some dying billionaire decides to fund it as a gift to mankind or something. So you get things like Legolas doing Cirque du Elve slides down the trunk of an elephant, and the overly jokey Gimli character, stuff like that. Not that there isn't plenty of humor in the books, but it is usually pretty subtle stuff. The silly scene of Denethor eating like a pig, when in the books he is (despite being destroyed by stress) a very noble person. Too much emphasis on the Aragorn/Arwen thing, which is clearly fundamental to Aragorn's character but hardly present in the books at all, and played up purely for love interest pandering purposes in the movie. Faramir's reaction to Frodo and the ring is completely different in the movies and belittles him I thought. Sauramon's death spike fall from the tower was silly. And, though it would have certainly added time, one of the major points of the books is that the adventure turned the hobbits from basically kids into leaders who will subsequently guide their people forward, and that's really lost when they dumped the majority of the return to Hobbiton. Losing Tom Bombadil is probably the most justifiable change I guess.

I guess for it to be done the way I'd have preferred it, someone would have to give the BBC a couple billion to do it as a 10 part mini-series or something.

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post #9 of 223 Old 06-13-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

I'm interested in hearing how you feel about it, seeing as how you are disappointed in the LOTR movies, and your intimacy with the Hobbit book. I haven't read any of them, but I loved the LOTR movies, but was greatly disappointed with The Hobbit.
I did read the LOTR (somehow, I considered it a duty) and won't do it again.
IMO, PJ's LOTR is much more enjoyable and captures 90% of the books anyway.

Haven't read The Hobbit all the way thru, but did try.
I found PJ's movie to be OK...nothing to write home about.
Give me his LOTR trilogy any day of the week.wink.gif

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post #10 of 223 Old 06-13-2013, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

I did read the LOTR (somehow, I considered it a duty) and won't do it again.
IMO, PJ's LOTR is much more enjoyable and captures 90% of the books anyway.

Haven't read The Hobbit all the way thru, but did try.
I found PJ's movie to be OK...nothing to write home about.
Give me his LOTR trilogy any day of the week.wink.gif

I love the trilogy and would have been happy if they made an extended Extended Edition of them all. I'm not sure if I'm ever going to read the books. The movies were satisfying enough on their own, but didn't really make me want to read the books. Especially when I know how much reading there is. But maybe one day.

The Hobbit.....I was just disappointing with that on all fronts. I didn't feel as though I was engrossed in anything. The script was empty and uninteresting, compared to the trilogy. The visuals were great, but still somehow not as good as the trilogy. It was FAR too long. And I didn't give a horse's ass about any of the characters.

I wanted to, and I want to love The Hobbit, but I just don't. I'm hoping that the second movie is far better. That PJ has listened to the fans and critics, and gone back and made some good changes. The trailer looks great, so we shall see.

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post #11 of 223 Old 06-13-2013, 06:31 PM
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The books are wonderful. I couldn't imagine anyone would like the movies better. Sort of a comment on modern society I guess. They have vastly more depth than the movies, for obvious reasons, and you get a lot more of the back story as well, though there's a lot more still in the Silmarillion. Anyone who ever liked Greek or Norse mythology when they were kids would I think like LOTRs for similar reasons, and the Silmarillion even more since it's pure mythology, and it's the mythology of the characters in the LOTRs, so reading it gives you a lot more understanding of why their world is as it is.

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post #12 of 223 Old 06-13-2013, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post

The books are wonderful. I couldn't imagine anyone would like the movies better.
Here's one.

Quote:
Sort of a comment on modern society I guess.
Uh, I have been a bookworm all of my life.
My momma was reading to me before I had teeth.
The first word I ever uttered was "pee-yo-wat," for Prairie Dog (a picture of which was in a book me Mum read to me).

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They have vastly more depth than the movies, for obvious reasons, and you get a lot more of the back story as well.
Exactly, and that's the problem.
LOTR should have been edited down much further than what was.

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post #13 of 223 Old 06-13-2013, 08:46 PM
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LOTR, as Tolkien wrote it, is indeed unfilmable. Maybe one day the BBC will put out Tolkien-faithful multi-year serial version a la Doctor Who to satisfy the Tolkien fanataics..

I actually haven't most of LOTR, I never get much past "Concerning Hobbits". Flipping around I come across uses of "thou" and "thy" and variants, and to me it reads like some 17th century religious tome, and I just can't handle it. I greatly enjoy and actually prefer PJ's movies, as they capture the essence and most of the plot of the books, and I approve of all the changes necessary to make the books into commercially sucessful movies.

OTOH, giving The Hobbit the LOTR treatment is definitely a mistake. I haven't even seen the first movie yet; I saw all the LOTR movies in the theater when they came out, and was planning to see the first Hobbit in the theater as well, but then the reviews came out, and I decided to wait for the Blu-Ray instead. Still haven't gotten that either. biggrin.gif
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post #14 of 223 Old 06-13-2013, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

I did read the LOTR (somehow, I considered it a duty) and won't do it again.
IMO, PJ's LOTR is much more enjoyable and captures 90% of the books anyway.

Haven't read The Hobbit all the way thru, but did try.
I found PJ's movie to be OK...nothing to write home about.
Give me his LOTR trilogy any day of the week.wink.gif




Pretty much my take as well.

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post #15 of 223 Old 06-13-2013, 09:23 PM
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My biggest complaint with the books is the way Tolkien keeps throwing names of people and places at without a game of thrones chart to track them.

I go nuts trying to keep track of the minor characters and places

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post #16 of 223 Old 06-13-2013, 10:11 PM
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My biggest complaint with the books is the way Tolkien keeps throwing names of people and places at without a game of thrones chart to track them.

I go nuts trying to keep track of the minor characters and places
Another irritation.
People, places, and things can have similar spellings.
I think this is where Martin got the idea for his GoT.wink.gif

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post #17 of 223 Old 06-14-2013, 01:11 AM
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Wow, a statement on modern society indeed.

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post #18 of 223 Old 06-14-2013, 03:21 AM
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For those that are interested in a more faithful dramatisation of LOTR;

The Lord of the Rings (BBC's 1981 radio series)

13 hours of Radio Theatre dramatisation of LOTR.

Available at Amazon.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post

It's hard to explain if you aren't someone who knows the books (and the books behind those books, e.g. the Silmarillion, the Lost Tales, etc...) intimately. I pretty much read through the whole bunch about once a year. I have the same reaction to any rendition of Dune so far as well, though even more so, making me almost puke honestly. LOTRs wasn't that bad, but it just seems to seriously lack something the books have. Of course it has lots of eye candy, and people can enjoy it on that level easily enough. But it just seemed extremely two dimensional and simplified to me compared to the book.

Ultimately, I think it's inevitable. They have to pander to some degree in these kinds of movies because, if they don't bring in a lot of people who haven't read they books, they can't make their money back. So it has to be dumbed down considerably just to be made at all, unless some dying billionaire decides to fund it as a gift to mankind or something. So you get things like Legolas doing Cirque du Elve slides down the trunk of an elephant, and the overly jokey Gimli character, stuff like that. Not that there isn't plenty of humor in the books, but it is usually pretty subtle stuff. The silly scene of Denethor eating like a pig, when in the books he is (despite being destroyed by stress) a very noble person. Too much emphasis on the Aragorn/Arwen thing, which is clearly fundamental to Aragorn's character but hardly present in the books at all, and played up purely for love interest pandering purposes in the movie. Faramir's reaction to Frodo and the ring is completely different in the movies and belittles him I thought. Sauramon's death spike fall from the tower was silly. And, though it would have certainly added time, one of the major points of the books is that the adventure turned the hobbits from basically kids into leaders who will subsequently guide their people forward, and that's really lost when they dumped the majority of the return to Hobbiton. Losing Tom Bombadil is probably the most justifiable change I guess.

I guess for it to be done the way I'd have preferred it, someone would have to give the BBC a couple billion to do it as a 10 part mini-series or something.

I've read LOTR, Hobbit, Silmarillion, and portions of the other tales.

I love both the movie and books. I did not expect the movies to be a carbon copy of the books and I would not want it that way. The movies are just another telling or interpreation of the Tolken Myth.
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post #20 of 223 Old 06-14-2013, 02:04 PM
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I've read LOTR, Hobbit, Silmarillion, and portions of the other tales.

I love both the movie and books. I did not expect the movies to be a carbon copy of the books and I would not want it that way. The movies are just another telling or interpreation of the Tolken Myth.

While we might not completely agree on important makeup questions wink.gif , I do agree 100% here smile.gif
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post #21 of 223 Old 06-14-2013, 02:23 PM
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Wow, a statement on modern society indeed.

I don't know, Dean. It may have garnered similar comments back in the 40s when it was written. Theres always been fantasy, action, non fiction, etc. Different styles for different people.
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Wow, a statement on modern society indeed.

well i've actually read them all more than once. it was just after the cinematic versions were released i went back and tried to read them again, it just seemed tedious.

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post #23 of 223 Old 06-14-2013, 05:00 PM
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I think that pretty much anything longer than a tweet or Youtube video seems tedious to most people these days.

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post #24 of 223 Old 06-14-2013, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post

I think that pretty much anything longer than a tweet or Youtube video seems tedious to most people these days.

I'm not sure of that! I've been reading since 1952 or so. I've read big books, small books, good books, and some that weren't so good. I read The Hobbit in 1963 on my barracks bed in one long sitting. I liked it, it was 300 pages and seemed to go by quickly. I tried to read The Rings Trilogy about 10 years ago, and yes, it was tedious for me. Mind you, I read War and Peace (1300 pages) and Anna Karenina (almost 900 pages) and found those tedious as well. I've also read Hawaii (930 pages) and Shogun (1000 pages) and found them wonderful. I think it's not so much the length of the book but the author's ability to get the message across in a way that keeps me interested.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post

Wow, a statement on modern society indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post

I think that pretty much anything longer than a tweet or Youtube video seems tedious to most people these days.
That's a wide brush you're painting with, my friend.wink.gif


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I don't know, Dean. It may have garnered similar comments back in the 40s when it was written.
When the LOTR was initially published, it bombed.
It was only after some years later that it actually caught on.wink.gif


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I'm not sure of that! I've been reading since 1952 or so. I've read big books, small books, good books, and some that weren't so good. I read The Hobbit in 1963 on my barracks bed in one long sitting. I liked it, it was 300 pages and seemed to go by quickly. I tried to read The Rings Trilogy about 10 years ago, and yes, it was tedious for me. Mind you, I read War and Peace (1300 pages) and Anna Karenina (almost 900 pages) and found those tedious as well. I've also read Hawaii (930 pages) and Shogun (1000 pages) and found them wonderful. I think it's not so much the length of the book but the author's ability to get the message across in a way that keeps me interested.
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well i've actually read them all more than once. it was just after the cinematic versions were released i went back and tried to read them again, it just seemed tedious.

I tried doing the same thing, was flush with the excitement of the movies and thought I'd give the boo another go. Still couldn't get much past "Concerning Hobbits". Tolkien's story and universe are great, it's just that at times it reads like the King James Bible. Aragorn didn't talk at all like Viggo Mortensen did. biggrin.gif
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When the LOTR was initially published, it bombed.
It was only after some years later that it actually caught on.wink.gif

Yup, I think LOTR really took off on college campuses during the 60's. Pipeweed-smoking pastoral Hobbits had a great appeal to a certain demographic of the time. wink.gif
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post #27 of 223 Old 06-15-2013, 11:44 AM
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If I remember correctly, I thought smaug (sp) was toward the END of the book????? If so, how are they going to milk another 3 hours for the third film???

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If I remember correctly, I thought smaug (sp) was toward the END of the book????? If so, how are they going to milk another 3 hours for the third film???
Where there's money, there's always a will.wink.gif
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post #29 of 223 Old 06-15-2013, 11:57 AM
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If I remember correctly, I thought smaug (sp) was toward the END of the book????? If so, how are they going to milk another 3 hours for the third film???

The third film is, I believe, about the journey back, as well as including material to bridge to LOTR. I don't think the journey home was actually described in The Hobbit, but when a relatively short simple book is being turned into a LOTR-like trilogy, there will be plenty of milking and padding.
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post #30 of 223 Old 06-15-2013, 12:00 PM
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that's very unfortunate.... mad.gif

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