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Movies, Concerts, and Music Discussion > Elysium - movie of the year
oink's Avatar oink 12:52 PM 01-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

The real shame is in its wasted potential; not that it had a message, but that the movie had an infantile message and conveyed it clumsily.
+100000000

Michael Sargent's Avatar Michael Sargent 08:36 AM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

Hey folks. I have a weird issue with the Elysium blu-ray, and when I searched, I couldn't find any threads covering it: when I play the disc, for some reason my Denon AVR-891 loses the ability to do its video overlay. The receiver displays all interface info (channel levels, Audyssey settings, etc.) in its little front window, and nowhere else. Is this a bit rate issue or something? Is the video too high quality for the entry-level processor in my entry-level receiver to handle while doing its 'fancy' tricks? Or is there some setting somewhere that I need to change? I ask because I've never seen this behavior before: other discs don't exhibit it, and this disc exhibits it repeatedly.

I had a similar issue last night. I have a Denon AVR4520CI and periodically the video just went blank, although the audio played without interruption. I thought it might be my BD player (Panasonic 230). The BD player is up to date. The 4520 wasn't connecting to the nets yesterday (despite the BD player going through the Denon switch). I'll reset it and try to update today.

Anyone else seeing any strangeness with Elysium?

Thanks,
Mike
SaviorMachine's Avatar SaviorMachine 09:33 AM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sargent View Post

I had a similar issue last night. I have a Denon AVR4520CI and periodically the video just went blank, although the audio played without interruption. I thought it might be my BD player (Panasonic 230). The BD player is up to date. The 4520 wasn't connecting to the nets yesterday (despite the BD player going through the Denon switch). I'll reset it and try to update today.

Anyone else seeing any strangeness with Elysium?

Thanks,
Mike

Is this repeatable with Elysium, or with other discs?
sb1's Avatar sb1 10:27 AM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sargent View Post

I had a similar issue last night. I have a Denon AVR4520CI and periodically the video just went blank, although the audio played without interruption. I thought it might be my BD player (Panasonic 230). The BD player is up to date. The 4520 wasn't connecting to the nets yesterday (despite the BD player going through the Denon switch). I'll reset it and try to update today.

Anyone else seeing any strangeness with Elysium?
Nothing wrong with your Denon. This is a feature built into the firmware. It periodically disrupts the signal, prompting you to put in a better movie. If I recall correctly, most properly functioning Denon avr's wouldn't even begin to play Tron Legacy or Prometheus.
Tack's Avatar Tack 11:33 AM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

Nothing wrong with your Denon. This is a feature built into the firmware. It periodically disrupts the signal, prompting you to put in a better movie. If I recall correctly, most properly functioning Denon avr's wouldn't even begin to play Tron Legacy or Prometheus.

I gotta get me one of those Denons.
oink's Avatar oink 12:21 PM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sargent View Post

I had a similar issue last night. I have a Denon AVR4520CI and periodically the video just went blank, although the audio played without interruption. I thought it might be my BD player (Panasonic 230). The BD player is up to date. The 4520 wasn't connecting to the nets yesterday (despite the BD player going through the Denon switch). I'll reset it and try to update today.
The 4520 does this kind of sh!t all the time.
It's a very flakey piece of equipment and the first Denon I have owned that disappoints.
It really has only one redeeming virtue: the 32 bit DACs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

Nothing wrong with your Denon. This is a feature built into the firmware. It periodically disrupts the signal, prompting you to put in a better movie. If I recall correctly, most properly functioning Denon avr's wouldn't even begin to play Tron Legacy or Prometheus.
Nice one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

I gotta get me one of those Denons.
I"ll sell ya mine.tongue.gif
Michael Sargent's Avatar Michael Sargent 02:11 PM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

Is this repeatable with Elysium, or with other discs?
Elysium does it repeatedly, even with a power off reset. I have never seen any other disk to it.

Mike
bcruiser's Avatar bcruiser 03:17 PM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sargent View Post

Elysium does it repeatedly, even with a power off reset. I have never seen any other disk to it.

Mike
Try other discs after a few beers and see what happens, as that's what one or two members do when watching movies or posting here.
oink's Avatar oink 04:22 PM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

Try other discs after a few beers and see what happens, as that's what one or two members do when watching movies or posting here.
Hey!
I resemble that remark.....tongue.gif
sb1's Avatar sb1 08:02 PM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Hey!
I resemble that remark.....tongue.gif
Don't feel bad for enjoying the spoils of adulthood...unlike some members here.
gwsat's Avatar gwsat 08:39 PM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

The real shame is in its wasted potential; not that it had a message, but that the movie had an infantile message and conveyed it clumsily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

+100000000

Yeah, what you said squared. The writing was so overripe and silly, why should anyone care whether there was some sort of a message intended by the film? That's a shame because better writing could have used Blomkamp's great eye and his terrific ensemble cast to tell a story that didn't make me giggle, or cringe, or something.
bcruiser's Avatar bcruiser 10:13 PM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post


Yeah, what you said squared. The writing was so overripe and silly, why should anyone care whether there was some sort of a message intended by the film? That's a shame because better writing could have used Blomkamp's great eye and his terrific ensemble cast to tell a story that didn't make me giggle, or cringe, or something.
Sounds like you should've watched Europa Report instead... smile.gif
oink's Avatar oink 03:24 AM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

Don't feel bad for enjoying the spoils of adulthood...unlike some members here.
I'm trying to keep a stiff upper lip....biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post


why should anyone care whether there was some sort of a message intended by the film? That's a shame because better writing could have used Blomkamp's great eye and his terrific ensemble cast to tell a story that didn't make me giggle, or cringe, or something.
Thank you for saying it better than I....wink.gif
gwsat's Avatar gwsat 10:08 AM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

why should anyone care whether there was some sort of a message intended by the film? That's a shame because better writing could have used Blomkamp's great eye and his terrific ensemble cast to tell a story that didn't make me giggle, or cringe, or something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Thank you for saying it better than I....wink.gif

In fairness to those who liked the film, I should confess that the combination of Blomkamp, his all star cast, and the track record he established with District 9, gave me expectations that turned out to be vastly too high. Seeing all that talent wasted, therefore, probably made my reaction to Elysium more harsh then it would have been had I expected less.
oink's Avatar oink 10:41 AM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post


In fairness to those who liked the film, I should confess that the combination of Blomkamp, his all star cast, and the track record he established with District 9, gave me expectations that turned out to be vastly too high. Seeing all that talent wasted, therefore, probably made my reaction to Elysium more harsh then it would have been had I expected less.
Agreed.
I admit my expectations were sky high....
SaviorMachine's Avatar SaviorMachine 01:52 PM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post


In fairness to those who liked the film, I should confess that the combination of Blomkamp, his all star cast, and the track record he established with District 9, gave me expectations that turned out to be vastly too high. Seeing all that talent wasted, therefore, probably made my reaction to Elysium more harsh then it would have been had I expected less.

You're so right; I feel bad about trash talking Elysium because I've been loving Blomkamp's movies since Alive In Joburg, and I've watched him hone his craft further with every new piece. So yes, I judge Elysium according to really high expectations, and maybe it's not completely fair. I still enjoyed the movie and I'm glad I own it; it's a good watch smile.gif
srw1000's Avatar srw1000 02:18 PM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

Two questions did pop into my head during watching it, though. First the non-spoiler: Who does all the work on Elysium? Yes, we see some robots doing basic tasks, but if the space station is reserved for the rich, who does all the work that can't be done by robots?
Like what? If they are made to move the way humans do (and then some), I don't see what's so difficult to believe that they do the "dirty" work and then some.
I wasn't thinking of dirty work, more along the lines of skilled service positions. While the robots do show some dexterity, it would be hard for them to act as chefs, hairdressers, performers, professors, etc. Those are all positions which require creative flair, along with the ability to interface with fellow humans that the robots of Elysium just didn't demonstrate. Certainly, there are functions that robots could perform without issue, one couldn't imagine the ultra rich finding a live performance of a classical opera or symphony fulfilling or satisfying. There are also the bureaucrats we see taking care of the day-to-day operations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

Are they allowed housing on Elysium? Wouldn't that require some kind of ghetto (at least in the eyes of the rich), or do they live with the rich, segregated in parts of their housing? We don't really learn anything about the residents of Elysium, they're just painted as faceless antagonists.
How much more details about Elysium should the movie reveal and why? That may just take the attention away from the core plot.
If the movie is going to set up a central theme of us vs. them or rich vs. poor, doesn't it make it more involving to understand both sides of that equation? The rich are set up as simple foils or props, without any depth. We are meant to resent them for simply being rich.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

The second question I had was about the Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
medical pods. The status symbol that drives so much of the story. They're common enough to exist in every home on Elysium, even though the average family isn't going to need them more a few times per year. Yet all the houses have them. That would seem to indicate that they aren't overly expensive (otherwise people would pool their resources to share such a rarely-used item. With them being so common and available on Elysium, why aren't there any on Earth? Is there some reason that the medical offices couldn't have one? Or, barring that, why wouldn't Spider and his gang be able to scrounge up enough parts to cobble one together and sell underground health services? There should be a huge market for that with all the people remaining on Earth, not to mention much less risky to use than trying to fly shuttles to Elysium.
They may use it often in Elysium. There's a lot of stray radiation in the space. It may be a good idea to use it daily as precaution.
Even so, the technology should still something that could be propagated. As an example most of us can relate too, look at what's happened with HDTVs in the past decade. Once relegated to the rich, or at least the most ardent of early adopters, they've become common-place, even appearing in the homes of those considered poor. Surely that same kind of propagation could have made some appearance on Earth, at least in the kind black markets run by Spider.

Scott
oink's Avatar oink 02:30 PM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

look at what's happened with HDTVs in the past decade. Once relegated to the rich, or at least the most ardent of early adopters, they've become common-place, even appearing in the homes of those considered poor.
Scott, you must have missed the memo.....HDTVs will never catch on.tongue.gif
srw1000's Avatar srw1000 02:58 PM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

I feel the same way, but....did Blomkamp have complete control of that, or was he told to do things a certain way since D9 worked so well. You know, if a little works then more must be better. Typically, as we all know, Hollywood execs don't make the best decisions when it comes to what a movie should or shouldn't have in it. I have no idea if he was influenced or not...just throwing that out there.
No one knows for sure.

My theory (FWIW) is since NB is not a native, he has an imperfect feel for American people and its culture (which this film was aimed squarely at).
I believe this is probably where the movie went off the rails.wink.gif
The article that I linked to earlier was only a snippet, but he goes into more detail in the full EW piece.
Quote:
Elysium is about a man trapped in the Third World trying to get to the First. ''I feel, now, like I'm a stranger in any land,'' Blomkamp says. ''I have a blood bond with South Africa that I can't get rid of, but when I'm in Canada, I don't really feel like I'm from there, either, and I'm definitely not from America.''

For all the hundreds of sci-fi films that have been made, few feel as plausible, as real, as Elysium does. Most directors choose between a dystopian (think Mad Max) or utopian (think Star Trek) vision of the future. Blomkamp, because he has lived in two vastly different worlds, sees that it is, and will be, both.

To American audiences, Elysium will symbolize Beverly Hills and Malibu, the wealthy enclaves Blomkamp used as design inspirations. To the rest of the planet, though, Elysium is the U.S. itself. ''America's like a beacon in the world,'' he says. ''But I feel like I'm watching it go down the toilet in front of my eyes. I'm fairly certain that this country is going to have pockets of Third World poverty within 50 to 60 years.'' So while he shot the film's earthbound scenes in Mexico City, he chose L.A. as the setting to create a subconscious gut punch. ''I knew that to show L.A., one of the richest cities in the world, as completely broken and dilapidated would mess with the audience,'' he says. ''I wanted to show Americans what it feels like to be on the other side of the border."

As to the preachy nature of the movie that bothered some of us, evidently it was not intentional. From a Wired article:
Quote:
But Blomkamp insists Elysium isn’t some sort of filmic Paul Krugman op-ed piece. It’s important for him that his movies grapple with things that matter, in this case economic disparity, immigration, health care, corporate greed. But he disdains prescription-happy “message” movies—that’s what documentaries are for, he says—and intends Elysium to be first and foremost a mass-appeal, summer popcorn flick. Allegory, satire, and dark humor interest him; providing pat answers to society’s woes does not. “Anybody who thinks they can change the world by making films,” he says, “is sorely mistaken.”

It's this last part where I felt he missed his mark. While there were elements of allegory, satire, and dark humor, they were subservient to the message of the film, complete with pat answer. This is in contrast to District 9, which did a much better job of hitting all those notes while still telling an entertaining and engaging story.

Scott
sb1's Avatar sb1 03:01 PM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

look at what's happened with HDTVs in the past decade. Once relegated to the rich, or at least the most ardent of early adopters, they've become common-place, even appearing in the homes of those considered poor.
Now you're lighting a fire under me. There's two families on my "not poor" street who don't work. They're government funded. I know the story on both since I was friends with the agent responsible for their cases (they royally worked the weak-ass system we have in place...one of them was even recommended that they could work). One just sits all day until they decide to go shopping, the other drinks and parties all the time while other cavemen from various parts come to park on the street and join them. Not long ago I saw them bringing home a giant above ground pool and 60" LED TV. So, they can't work, but they can jump into the pool and drink their asses off and party 24/7. The police have been out here numerous times. Sadly, both of the families are right here next to me. One next door, the other across the street. Bad luck...

What does this have to do with Elysium? Not much, I suppose. But it pisses me off. I guess the separation of classes is seen differently depending on your situation. It's like compassion. Compassion is free. You see the poor starving children, the homeless, the beaten dogs and abandon cats....and your heart just reaches out to them. You don't give anything, though. Suppose I had access to your bank account and started donating to each of these causes. Even in amounts you could easily afford. You don't feel so sorry for them now, do you? That could also be seen as the money coming out of my check every two weeks and paying for the neighbors new pool and TV.

In other words, I would love to see those who deserve it, get what they want....and those who don't, get nothing. That said, I always try to help those willing to help themselves. Unfortunately, we allow that to be optional now.
Kilgore's Avatar Kilgore 03:37 PM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

The rich are set up as simple foils or props, without any depth. We are meant to resent them for simply being rich.

What's wrong with that? biggrin.gif
Kilgore's Avatar Kilgore 03:40 PM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

Now you're lighting a fire under me. There's two families on my "not poor" street who don't work. They're government funded. I know the story on both since I was friends with the agent responsible for their cases (they royally worked the weak-ass system we have in place...one of them was even recommended that they could work). One just sits all day until they decide to go shopping, the other drinks and parties all the time while other cavemen from various parts come to park on the street and join them. Not long ago I saw them bringing home a giant above ground pool and 60" LED TV. So, they can't work, but they can jump into the pool and drink their asses off and party 24/7. The police have been out here numerous times. Sadly, both of the families are right here next to me. One next door, the other across the street. Bad luck..

You can live like those people if their lives are so great. Why don't you?
Kilgore's Avatar Kilgore 03:42 PM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

In other words, I would love to see those who deserve it, get what they want....and those who don't, get nothing. That said, I always try to help those willing to help themselves. Unfortunately, we allow that to be optional now.

I think it's far more outrageous that Kim Kardashian is a multimillionaire than that family having a 60" TV. FAR more.
gwsat's Avatar gwsat 04:00 PM 01-05-2014
Quote:
But Blomkamp insists Elysium isn’t some sort of filmic Paul Krugman op-ed piece. It’s important for him that his movies grapple with things that matter, in this case economic disparity, immigration, health care, corporate greed. But he disdains prescription-happy “message” movies—that’s what documentaries are for, he says—and intends Elysium to be first and foremost a mass-appeal, summer popcorn flick. Allegory, satire, and dark humor interest him; providing pat answers to society’s woes does not. “Anybody who thinks they can change the world by making films,” he says, “is sorely mistaken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

The article that I linked to earlier was only a snippet, but he goes into more detail in the full EW piece.
As to the preachy nature of the movie that bothered some of us, evidently it was not intentional. From a Wired article:
It's this last part where I felt he missed his mark. While there were elements of allegory, satire, and dark humor, they were subservient to the message of the film, complete with pat answer. This is in contrast to District 9, which did a much better job of hitting all those notes while still telling an entertaining and engaging story.

I thought its clumsy dialog caused the preachy tone of Elysium. I accept, too, Blomkamp's claim that he only wanted to tell "an entertaining and engaging story." For whatever reason, Blomkamp didn't understand that many viewers would view his film as blatant propaganda. I didn't think that but still didn't much like the film, its highly regarded director and great cast not withstanding.
sb1's Avatar sb1 04:34 PM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

its highly regarded director and great cast not withstanding.
I'm not a hater, but I could have easily seen another actor replacing Damon and it fitting the movie better.
oink's Avatar oink 05:30 PM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

Now you're lighting a fire under me. There's two families on my "not poor" street who don't work. They're government funded. I know the story on both since I was friends with the agent responsible for their cases (they royally worked the weak-ass system we have in place...one of them was even recommended that they could work). One just sits all day until they decide to go shopping, the other drinks and parties all the time while other cavemen from various parts come to park on the street and join them. Not long ago I saw them bringing home a giant above ground pool and 60" LED TV. So, they can't work, but they can jump into the pool and drink their asses off and party 24/7. The police have been out here numerous times. Sadly, both of the families are right here next to me. One next door, the other across the street. Bad luck...

What does this have to do with Elysium? Not much, I suppose. But it pisses me off. I guess the separation of classes is seen differently depending on your situation. It's like compassion. Compassion is free. You see the poor starving children, the homeless, the beaten dogs and abandon cats....and your heart just reaches out to them. You don't give anything, though. Suppose I had access to your bank account and started donating to each of these causes. Even in amounts you could easily afford. You don't feel so sorry for them now, do you? That could also be seen as the money coming out of my check every two weeks and paying for the neighbors new pool and TV.

In other words, I would love to see those who deserve it, get what they want....and those who don't, get nothing. That said, I always try to help those willing to help themselves. Unfortunately, we allow that to be optional now.
I do my end of the year donations to what I deem worthy non-profits.
I don't expect miracles in return.

I usually hand cash to people on street corners holding up signs.
I realize there is a possibility my $$$ will not be put to good use.

You can only try to help and that is all you can do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

many viewers would view his film as blatant propaganda.
Age has taught me there are more idiots in the world than I initially thought possible.wink.gif
bcruiser's Avatar bcruiser 08:02 PM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

I wasn't thinking of dirty work, more along the lines of skilled service positions. While the robots do show some dexterity, it would be hard for them to act as chefs, hairdressers, performers, professors, etc. Those are all positions which require creative flair, along with the ability to interface with fellow humans
Sorry, I only see performer on that list as fitting into the category of creative flair.
Quote:
that the robots of Elysium just didn't demonstrate.
This movie only showed a few seconds of service robot at the party. I think that's sufficient. Hairdresser? Uh... I don't see why robots or "beauty pod" can't perform such thing. The med pod can Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
reconstruct Kruger's face including hair in seconds
so I don't see why they need human hairdressers.
Quote:
Certainly, there are functions that robots could perform without issue, one couldn't imagine the ultra rich finding a live performance of a classical opera or symphony fulfilling or satisfying.
There were things people did / watched for entertainment 140 years ago that we don't do these days, at least not in the mainstream of the society. Also, there are things we do and watch for entertainment now that didn't exist 140 years ago. It's very perceivable that entertainment for people would be quite different in 140 years from now.
Quote:
There are also the bureaucrats we see taking care of the day-to-day operations.
If the movie is going to set up a central theme of us vs. them or rich vs. poor, doesn't it make it more involving to understand both sides of that equation? The rich are set up as simple foils or props, without any depth. We are meant to resent them for simply being rich.
How many people like to sit through 3+ hour movie?
Quote:
Even so, the technology should still something that could be propagated. As an example most of us can relate too, look at what's happened with HDTVs in the past decade. Once relegated to the rich, or at least the most ardent of early adopters, they've become common-place, even appearing in the homes of those considered poor. Surely that same kind of propagation could have made some appearance on Earth, at least in the kind black markets run by Spider.
Then it won't fit into the plot. At least not the plot they set out to make a movie of. Unlike the stories about the past, flexibility is a default property when telling about the future. I don't see the necessity of covering the details of those domestic services you brought up. I think it would be too distracting and long.
bcruiser's Avatar bcruiser 08:10 PM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

there are more idiots in the world than I initially thought possible.wink.gif
Blame the alcohol. eek.gif




biggrin.gif
gwsat's Avatar gwsat 08:38 PM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat
many viewers would view his film as blatant propaganda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Age has taught me there are more idiots in the world than I initially thought possible.wink.gif

ROFL, partner, you have won my Post of the Day Award. smile.gif
oink's Avatar oink 09:24 PM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

Blame the alcohol. eek.gif




biggrin.gif
Alcohol is not the problem...it's part of the solution (the other part is booze).
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