Elysium - movie of the year - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 495 Old 08-19-2013, 08:24 PM
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but to rate Elysium and Oblivion as both 7's seems hard to believe. Maybe you didn't really like either of them. I can't imagine how you would rate We're the Millers or anything else that is really bad.
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post #182 of 495 Old 08-19-2013, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but to rate Elysium and Oblivion as both 7's seems hard to believe.
There's a simple explanation for that. Opinion is not for believing. smile.gif
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post #183 of 495 Old 08-19-2013, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

There's a simple explanation for that. Opinion is not for believing. smile.gif

True and you could say the same thing about too many movie critics.
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post #184 of 495 Old 08-19-2013, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

We mostly agree, I think. I thought Damon and Foster's performances, along with Blomkamp's riveting images, were all that saved Elysium from disaster. In my opinion, though, those strong points convinced me to rate it at 7 Stars out of 10. Come to think of it, 7 Stars out of 10 is exactly what I rated Oblivion, this year's other science fiction blockbuster disappointment
FWIW, I found less to complain about with Oblivion...
IMO, it didn't promise so much more than it actually delivered....naturally, YMMV.smile.gif

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Unlike some others, I saw no particular political message in Elysium.
Agreed.

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There's a simple explanation for that. Opinion is not for believing. smile.gif
Yeah, that.

We all have opinions...it is silly to think everyone, or anyone (for that matter), will agree in every situation.wink.gif

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post #185 of 495 Old 08-20-2013, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Unlike some others, I saw no particular political message in Elysium.

I thought this as well. When I heard that people were complaining about the message in the movie, I immediately rolled my eyes at the thought that people see a message in anything and everything. They also give filmmakers far too much credit nowadays.

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post #186 of 495 Old 08-20-2013, 03:36 PM
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When I heard that people were complaining about the message in the movie, I immediately rolled my eyes at the thought that people see a message in anything and everything. They also give filmmakers far too much credit nowadays.
Amen to that.

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post #187 of 495 Old 08-20-2013, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

can't imagine how you would rate We're the Millers or anything else that is really bad.

Trash like that doesn't even merit acknowledgement, much less the dignity of a numerical rating.
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post #188 of 495 Old 08-20-2013, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Osirus23 View Post

Trash like that doesn't even merit acknowledgement, much less the dignity of a numerical rating.

About the only thing that can be said about We're the Millers is that it has already made back what it cost to make, something that Elysium can't say. Although Elysium is dazzling in terms of video graphics and not all that good of a movie, We're the Millers was simply dreadful and worse by a large margin.
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post #189 of 495 Old 08-21-2013, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

I thought this as well. When I heard that people were complaining about the message in the movie, I immediately rolled my eyes at the thought that people see a message in anything and everything. They also give filmmakers far too much credit nowadays.

No offense, but the overt, sledgehammer-to-the-head political message of the movie is painfully clear even from the trailer. I don't know how it's possible for anyone to not see something right in front of them. This isn't some subtle, subversive message secretly slipped into the movie. It's, "HEY LOOK AT THIS! THIS IS A MOVIE ABOUT IMMIGRATION AND HEALTH CARE REFORM, WITH SPACESHIPS AND LASERS!"

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post #190 of 495 Old 08-21-2013, 11:56 AM
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No offense, but the overt, sledgehammer-to-the-head political message of the movie is painfully clear even from the trailer. I don't know how it's possible for anyone to not see something right in front of them. This isn't some subtle, subversive message secretly slipped into the movie. It's, "HEY LOOK AT THIS! THIS IS A MOVIE ABOUT IMMIGRATION AND HEALTH CARE REFORM, WITH SPACESHIPS AND LASERS!"

Elysium is a fantasy about a dystopian future. How anybody could think there is a political message about the present day immigration and health care debates leaves me scratching my head. I had always thought that nobody was more sensitive to and negative about Message Movies than I but I have to concede that I'm not even in your league.smile.gif
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post #191 of 495 Old 08-21-2013, 12:07 PM
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The way I look at it is if it's a good movie on a shoot-em-up and "blow stuff up real good" level, that's fine. It will satisfy a certain segment of the audience looking for that. Especially in the summertime.

If its a good movie on an eye-candy CGI level, that's fine too. Heaven knows I've bought tickets and shiny disks before based on that criteria alone.

And if it manages to raise some people's consciousness about present day dilemmas, then that's also fine & dandy. That ups the "redeeming social value" quotient to which most movies, especially big summer blockbusters, don't even bother to aspire. And that makes it good sci-fi as well since that genre, at it's best, holds a mirror up to present day society.

Now, if you say it's done in a slipshod, clunky fashion, then that's another story. I haven't seen it yet, but my understanding is this movie is competently executed. So I don't see a legitimate beef here, but will reserve final judgement until I've actually seen it.
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post #192 of 495 Old 08-21-2013, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Elysium is a fantasy about a dystopian future. How anybody could think there is a political message about the present day immigration and health care debates leaves me scratching my head.

You can't possibly be serious. Much science fiction is written as allegory for present-day issues. Please tell me you didn't also miss that District 9 is about racism and Apartheid.

Some science fiction allegories are written better, more cleverly, or more subversively than others. Neill Blokamp is not particularly subtle in his attempts.
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I had always thought that nobody was more sensitive to and negative about Message Movies than I but I have to concede that I'm not even in your league.

If this is just something that I'm reading into the movie that isn't really there, why is it that every single review of Elysium published in print or online anywhere in the world talks about its heavy-handed, clunky political messages?

Which is more likely, that every single film critic in the world coincidentally misread the movie in exactly the same way as one another, or that these messages are right there and you missed them?

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post #193 of 495 Old 08-21-2013, 01:33 PM
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One must never forget that first, last, and always: The purpose of making a movie is to sell tickets, then disks. History says, the most reliable way to do that is to make it entertaining. Elysium is entertaining in spades, more so than any other SF film of 2013 IMHO.

I happen to believe there is a message in there, or more than one. Since we can't even agree about what that might be, it's not a problem with the film.

The quality of the visual effects and the quality of the acting are well above average.

The script defects make it an "A-" movie versus an "A" film.

I look forward to Blomkamp's future SF films, and I'm buying this one. I was entertained.

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post #194 of 495 Old 08-21-2013, 02:39 PM
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The quality of the visual effects and the quality of the acting are well above average.

The script defects make it an "A-" movie versus an "A" film.

I look forward to Blomkamp's future SF films, and I'm buying this one. I was entertained.

With one minor exception, I agree with everything you said. The acting and visuals were indeed outstanding and, Like you, I look forward to seeing more of Blomkamp's work. My only caveat with your post was that I thought the weaknesses in Blomkamp's screenplay turned what had a chance to be an A film into a B- film. Although I ended up rather liking Elysium I didn't like it enough to order the BD.
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post #195 of 495 Old 08-21-2013, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

You can't possibly be serious. Much science fiction is written as allegory for present-day issues. Please tell me you didn't also miss that District 9 is about racism and Apartheid.

Some science fiction allegories are written better, more cleverly, or more subversively than others. Neill Blokamp is not particularly subtle in his attempts.
If this is just something that I'm reading into the movie that isn't really there, why is it that every single review of Elysium published in print or online anywhere in the world talks about its heavy-handed, clunky political messages?

Which is more likely, that every single film critic in the world coincidentally misread the movie in exactly the same way as one another, or that these messages are right there and you missed them?

I can't be responsible for the wrongheadedness of a bunch of film critics.smile.gif More pointedly, I observed no overt politicization in the screenplay, weak as it was in many ways.

Although racism and Apartheid could be inferred from District 9 I took its message as more a humanist one. Also, what message there was came near the end of the film and was, I thought, rather delicately handled. It moved me. That's one of the reasons I bought the BD.
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post #196 of 495 Old 08-21-2013, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

No offense, but the overt, sledgehammer-to-the-head political message of the movie is painfully clear even from the trailer. I don't know how it's possible for anyone to not see something right in front of them. This isn't some subtle, subversive message secretly slipped into the movie. It's, "HEY LOOK AT THIS! THIS IS A MOVIE ABOUT IMMIGRATION AND HEALTH CARE REFORM, WITH SPACESHIPS AND LASERS!"

When people say no offense, it's indistinguishable to me from "I'm nor racist, but....(insert racist comment here)". biggrin.gif

I have seen some movies with political messages, and I have seen movies like Elysium. I don't think of Elysium as having a political message, as much as a movie born from current ideologies and with modern sensibilities in mind. I know this might sound stupid, in that I'm saying the definition of something is not that thing, but I don't view a person speaking out on something that is currently being debated in "political circles", or putting it into their art, as being a political message necessarily, especially by definition. But I also don't feel that anything said by someone who has a very large platform in which to say it, is necessarily a political message. But hey, what the hell do I know.

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post #197 of 495 Old 08-21-2013, 04:51 PM
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It's ok that it's a message movie. So is Zero Dark Thirty and Star Wars.


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post #198 of 495 Old 08-21-2013, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

No offense, but the overt, sledgehammer-to-the-head political message of the movie is painfully clear even from the trailer. I don't know how it's possible for anyone to not see something right in front of them. This isn't some subtle, subversive message secretly slipped into the movie. It's, "HEY LOOK AT THIS! THIS IS A MOVIE ABOUT IMMIGRATION AND HEALTH CARE REFORM, WITH SPACESHIPS AND LASERS!"
If I may....
I believe what lordcloud was implying (if I am wrong, please step in L.C.) is nearly every subject people wish to speak about these days is being couched as having some kind of "political" origin/meaning.
Personally, I find this disgusting and a barrier to rational public discourse.

This movie is about a dystopian world where everything went to hell....so to speak.
So much so, some folks have literally left the planet.
A logical way for this to have happened, within the confines of the screenplay, is the rich get richer and everyone else less so (far fetched?wink.gif )

Anyway, there had to be some set of circumstances which allowed our world to sink to those levels of Hell.
Those "circumstances" (economic, political, social) are not examined here as they were in D9.
This is a glaring omission IMO and made the movie weaker, with less bite, and probably is the result of the influence of the "suits."

I think I'm getting off track here....tongue.gif
FWIW, my point is anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over NB's clumsiness with this flawed movie, needs a beer, or maybe just join me in a Central Oregon pub crawl....I'm buying.biggrin.gif

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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I can't be responsible for the wrongheadedness of a bunch of film critics.smile.gif
Although racism and Apartheid could be inferred from District 9 I took its message as more a humanist one. Also, what message there was came near the end of the film and was, I thought, rather delicately handled. It moved me. That's one of the reasons I bought the BD.
+100000000000000000000000000000

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post #199 of 495 Old 08-21-2013, 06:17 PM
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[/I] every subject people wish to speak about these days is being couched as having some kind of "political" origin/meaning.
Personally, I find this disgusting and a barrier to rational public discourse.

This movie is about a dystopian world where everything went to hell....so to speak.
So much so, some folks have literally left the planet.

+1
And I'd add most of the butthurt is from knowing deep down the rich didn't save us a seat.


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post #200 of 495 Old 08-21-2013, 07:01 PM
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And I'd add most of the butthurt is from knowing deep down the rich didn't save us a seat.
Knowing what we know of them now (2013), would you expect them to?wink.gif

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post #201 of 495 Old 08-21-2013, 08:20 PM
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If I may....
I believe what lordcloud was implying (if I am wrong, please step in L.C.) is nearly every subject people wish to speak about these days is being couched as having some kind of "political" origin/meaning.
Personally, I find this disgusting and a barrier to rational public discourse.

+69

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FWIW, my point is anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over NB's clumsiness with this flawed movie, needs a beer, or maybe just join me in a Central Oregon pub crawl....I'm buying.

Slightly modified.

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FWIW, my point is anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over NB's clumsiness with this flawed movie, needs a beer, or maybe a joint. Join me in a Central Oregon pub crawl....I'm buying, I’m rollin’.

This modification was not approved by oink. Any modifications to what oink said can lead to: sleeplessness, overeating, psoriasis, under eating, paranoia, the munchies, men wearing G-strings, hypertension, Islamaphobia, erectile dysfunction, constipation, oral constipation (trust me, you don’t want to go there), diarrhea, eczema...Oh, F it. Life. Live it.
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post #202 of 495 Old 08-21-2013, 08:21 PM
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Saw it tonight and really lilked it. Didn't have expectations though.
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post #203 of 495 Old 08-21-2013, 08:21 PM
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Saw it tonight and really lilked it. Didn't have expectations though.
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FWIW, my point is anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over NB's clumsiness with this flawed movie, needs a beer, or maybe a joint. Join me in a Central Oregon pub crawl....I'm buying, I’m rollin’.

This modification was not approved by oink. Any modifications to what oink said can lead to: sleeplessness, overeating, psoriasis, under eating, paranoia, the munchies, men wearing G-strings, hypertension, Islamaphobia, erectile dysfunction, constipation, oral constipation (trust me, you don’t want to go there), diarrhea, eczema...Oh, F it. Life. Live it.
That is the funniest post you have made in quite awhile.cool.gifbiggrin.gif

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That is the funniest post you have made in quite awhile.cool.gifbiggrin.gif
What's funny about it? It's all true. eek.gif
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So I saw this Monday. By the end of the film I really couldn't care less about what happened. I was more connected to Oblivion than I was this.

It was such a shame, it could have been so good...

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post #207 of 495 Old 08-22-2013, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

If I may....
I believe what lordcloud was implying (if I am wrong, please step in L.C.) is nearly every subject people wish to speak about these days is being couched as having some kind of "political" origin/meaning.
Personally, I find this disgusting and a barrier to rational public discourse.

It's exactly what I was implying.

I LOVE MOVIES!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

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post #208 of 495 Old 08-22-2013, 06:50 AM
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So I saw this Monday. By the end of the film I really couldn't care less about what happened. I was more connected to Oblivion than I was this.

It was such a shame, it could have been so good...

Seggers

Unfortunately, I can't disagree with this. I thought Oblivion was a much stronger movie, and I without a doubt, felt more connected to the characters, situations, and events that occurred in the movie. I was pretty excited about Elysium, but ultimately left very unfulfilled and filled with thoughts of what could have, and should have been. I went home and watched Alien.

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post #209 of 495 Old 08-22-2013, 07:36 AM
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What's funny about it? It's all true. eek.gif
Yes, but I try not to let some things out....particularly my fondness for wearing G-strings.
Although having erectile dysfunction makes it not as uncomfortable as one might think.

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Unfortunately, I can't disagree with this. I thought Oblivion was a much stronger movie, and I without a doubt, felt more connected to the characters, situations, and events that occurred in the movie. I was pretty excited about Elysium, but ultimately left very unfulfilled and filled with thoughts of what could have, and should have been. I went home and watched Alien.
Who knows....maybe everything screwed up with Elysium was the result of interference from Hollywood Powers-That-Be and a Director's Cut will right the ship.

OK, that is a helluva reach....biggrin.gif

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post #210 of 495 Old 08-22-2013, 07:44 AM
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Saw this movie a couple of days ago, and I wasn't too impressed with it... seems like a pretty vanilla dystopian, rich vs. poor plot. And the plot holes - that is the most idiotically under-defended space station imaginable. I can forgive errors like these if there are other parts of the movie that are of redeeming quality, but there weren't any. 95% of the characters are two-dimensional, cardboard cut-out templates lacking any depth.
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Elysium Two Disc Combo Blu Ray Dvd Ultraviolet Digital Copy

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