Steven Spielberg ------ Serial Sentimentalist - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 48 Old 04-30-2013, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Last night I gave Lincoln a go....

All I can say is this movie is the biggest goey-goo he has ever done (and THAT is saying a lot).
Here I was hoping for a straight up, insightful bio of one our greatest politicians and all I could do was imagine what Bill Murray felt like in Ghostbusters after being slimed.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The first scene with ol' Abe sitting on his log looking forlorn while 2 white soldiers and 2 black soldiers form a quartet recitation of the Gettysburg Address....rolleyes.gifmad.gif
Followed by the intelligence-insulting, cloying scene of the Prez and the First Lady....rolleyes.gif


Regardless of the fact most Americans can't list all 50 states, EVERYONE knows the story of AL.
Using fourth grade history to tell Lincoln's story was too too much for me to handle.

None of this was anything but SS once again trying bringing his insipid approach of covering everything with diabetic-inducing sickly sweet stuff.

I thought War Horse couldn't be topped; sadly, I was wrong.

He should have retired from the Director's chair 5 years ago.....

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post #2 of 48 Old 04-30-2013, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Last night I gave Lincoln a go....

All I can say is this movie is the biggest goey-goo he has ever done (and THAT is saying a lot).
Here I was hoping for a straight up, insightful bio of one our greatest politicians and all I could do was imagine what Bill Murray felt like in Ghostbusters after being slimed.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The first scene with ol' Abe sitting on his log looking forlorn while 2 white soldiers and 2 black soldiers form a quartet recitation of the Gettysburg Address....rolleyes.gifmad.gif
Followed by the intelligence-insulting, cloying scene of the Prez and the First Lady....rolleyes.gif


Regardless of the fact most Americans can't list all 50 states, EVERYONE knows the story of AL.
Using fourth grade history to tell Lincoln's story was too too much for me to handle.

None of this was anything but SS once again trying bringing his insipid approach of covering everything with diabetic-inducing sickly sweet stuff.

I thought War Horse couldn't be topped; sadly, I was wrong.

He should have retired from the Director's chair 5 years ago.....

Goodwin Court History Plus SS = Goop

You should know better Sir oink
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post #3 of 48 Old 04-30-2013, 05:58 PM
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It's a bio pic of America's favorite old dead white guy directed by Steven Spielberg. What were you expecting, Kubrick style cold detachment? BTW oink, I don't know if it was intentional or not, but I liked how you described Lincoln as one of our greatest politicians, as opposed to presidents, lol.

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post #4 of 48 Old 04-30-2013, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thedeskE View Post

Goodwin Court History Plus SS = Goop

You should know better Sir oink
I guess you're right....

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Originally Posted by ratpacker View Post

It's a bio pic of America's favorite old dead white guy directed by Steven Spielberg. What were you expecting, Kubrick style cold detachment?
No....what I was expecting was something worthy of Mr. Spielberg's best works.

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BTW oink, I don't know if it was intentional or not, but I liked how you described Lincoln as one of our greatest politicians, as opposed to presidents, lol.
Actually, it was a very deliberate description.
Lincoln was at heart a very pragmatic political animal and that is, by and large, how he governed.

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post #5 of 48 Old 05-01-2013, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

I guess you're right....
No....what I was expecting was something worthy of Mr. Spielberg's best works.

His best works are fantasy/adventure/sci-fi. And even those have left a lot to be desired lately. Lincoln was nothing more than a sanitized, pc, by the numbers bio pic designed to win awards. When SS gives me murderous diesel trucks, cute aliens or man eating sharks, I'm in. When he gives me historical epics, forget it. He just can't seem to keep from applying the powdered sugar on 'em.

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post #6 of 48 Old 05-01-2013, 11:13 AM
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Yup, once again you and I are totally on track Oinky. You know I have idea WTF Spielberg is trying to do with Lincoln as well as we know about him in school and what not so what's so entertaining about it. And I totally loved pretty much every thing DDL touches but I just don't get his Lincoln either, it was so weird the way he portrayed him I felt like I was watching some sort of animation or CGI imposed character.

The whole cast were all talking and behaving in their world that I just could not find anything remotely interesting or intriguing. Total waste of cast and time.

I want the old Spielberg back that gave us "junk food" so to speak like Jaws, Indiana jones, Dinosaurs, Minority report, A.I. No more historical BS like Amistad, War horse and Lincoln. Schindler's list was enough. These sleep inducing type of movies that you have to be in a good mood or not tired or lacking sleep or else you won't last 10 min with this material.
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post #7 of 48 Old 05-01-2013, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zoey67 View Post

.

I want the old Spielberg back that gave us "junk food" so to speak like Jaws, Indiana jones, Dinosaurs, Minority report, A.I. No more historical BS like Amistad, War horse and Lincoln. Schindler's list was enough. These sleep inducing type of movies that you have to be in a good mood or not tired or lacking sleep or else you won't last 10 min with this material.
Exactly, THAT is the SS I want to see.smile.gif

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post #8 of 48 Old 05-01-2013, 07:17 PM
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Exactly, THAT is the SS I want to see.smile.gif

I thought "Lincoln" was a good movie, but not a great one...
Too much modern day 'political correctness' and revisionist history in this thing to pass the smell test also.
Credible acting performances all around though, but a long and boring film as well.

Spielberg does have a tendency to layer on the sugar, and to pull relentlessly at heart strings that don't wanna be pulled by obvious deliberate manipulation!
I give it 3.5 out of 5 stars (max).

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post #9 of 48 Old 05-01-2013, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Norseman View Post

I thought "Lincoln" was a good movie, but not a great one...
Too much modern day 'political correctness' and revisionist history in this thing to pass the smell test also.
Credible acting performances all around though, but a long and boring film as well.

Spielberg does have a tendency to layer on the sugar, and to pull relentlessly at heart strings that don't wanna be pulled by obvious deliberate manipulation!
I give it 3.5 out of 5 stars (max).

Gotta agree. I liked Lincoln a lot, and I absolutely loved DDL's performance in it. But the movie itself, while very good, is not a movie I care to own. Spielberg stopped being a relevant director to me, a while ago. While I love his old movies, I enjoyed Super 8 more than anything he's made recently.

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post #10 of 48 Old 05-01-2013, 10:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mad Norseman View Post


Too much modern day 'political correctness' and revisionist history in this thing to pass the smell test also.
Credible acting performances all around though, but a long and boring film as well.

Spielberg does have a tendency to layer on the sugar, and to pull relentlessly at heart strings that don't wanna be pulled by obvious deliberate manipulation!
Couldn't agree more.wink.gif

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post #11 of 48 Old 05-02-2013, 07:57 AM
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For those that haven't read it, I encourage you to read Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin. It is the source of the film itself. This film, and the book, has less to do with the accomplishments of Abraham Lincoln, which we all learned in school, and has much more to do with how he accomplished them. That said, the book is considerably more detailed and fills in many blanks that the film didn't show. The book is 944 pages and it would be difficult to get all of it in a 2 1/2 hour movie...

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post #12 of 48 Old 05-02-2013, 01:29 PM
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Haven't seen "Lincoln" and not compelled to. Love to see Scorsese tackled the subject though after what he said about Lincoln in his commentary for "Gangs of New York." "A Guy Named Joe" supposedly influenced Spielberg into making sentimental styled films.
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post #13 of 48 Old 05-02-2013, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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"A Guy Named Joe" supposedly influenced Spielberg into making sentimental styled films.
Great.....rolleyes.gif
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post #14 of 48 Old 05-02-2013, 06:18 PM
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My problem with Spielberg isn't his sentimentality. It is his directorial choices at the most basic level, his way of presumably generating that sentimentality on film and within the giant rectangle of the screen. Victor Fleming, the director of A Guy Named Joe, might have produced a sentimental movie but his nuts and bolts decisions on how to generate that response in an audience was miles ahead of what Spielberg typically throws out there. Frank Capra, William Wyler, John Ford and other film directors created scenes and sequences of tremendously emotional "sentimentality" in their movies and even their second tier movies achieved it better than all but possibly two or three scenes and sequences in Spielberg's most highly lauded and successful movies.
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post #15 of 48 Old 05-02-2013, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by hitchfan View Post

My problem with Spielberg isn't his sentimentality. It is his directorial choices at the most basic level, his way of presumably generating that sentimentality on film and within the giant rectangle of the screen. Victor Fleming, the director of A Guy Named Joe, might have produced a sentimental movie but his nuts and bolts decisions on how to generate that response in an audience was miles ahead of what Spielberg typically throws out there. Frank Capra, William Wyler, John Ford and other film directors created scenes and sequences of tremendously emotional "sentimentality" in their movies and even their second tier movies achieved it better than all but possibly two or three scenes and sequences in Spielberg's most highly lauded and successful movies.

I agree with hitchfan too.
Spielberg just doesn't seem to know when to stop - like in his (otherwise terrific) movie "Saving Private Ryan".
He takes it all the way through with quite believable writing, characters and acting - only to tag on that hokey "Calvary to the rescue at the last moment!" ending!
I mean, C'mon! eek.gif

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post #16 of 48 Old 05-02-2013, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Norseman View Post

I agree with hitchfan too.
Spielberg just doesn't seem to know when to stop - like in his (otherwise terrific) movie "Saving Private Ryan".
He takes it all the way through with quite believable writing, characters and acting - only to tag on that hokey "Calvary to the rescue at the last moment!" ending!
I mean, C'mon! eek.gif

You know, MN, as massively successful as his movies have been box office-wise, I'm sure Steven Spielberg, the director, would love to have to his all time credit a scene of sentimentality equal to or surpassing, say, the final "There's no place like home..." scene in Victor Fleming's The Wizard of Oz (or whichever committee of MGM directors and contributors were involved in creating it) and the homecoming sequences in William Wyler's WWII drama, The Best Years of Our Lives, each of which on the page would read about as blatantly manipulative as anything put to print and staged for a Hollywood film. And, like me, Spielberg probably found himself weeping like an infant on the umpteenth viewing of each movie well into adulthood and middle age. But he just doesn't have it in him to know how to do it himself. IMO, nothing in E.T. or Always or Saving Private Ryan compares to those examples nor will they continue to trigger such an audience response for decades to come. It is possible the "I should have done more..." scene in Schindler's List might qualify, but I haven't noticed that movie working its way into the movie-going psyche over the past couple of decades the way many of those by Fleming, Capra, Wyler and others did.

Spielberg's most notable and effective directorial choices were in Jaws. But those were choices he had to make because the damn mechanical shark didn't work, choices he never would have made on his own if the available technology and his budget had allowed for it. Well virtually since Jaws, Spielberg's available technology and budget has allowed for almost any choices he's wanted to make and, personally, those choices have largely left me cold. Yes, they've made a ton of money, but he has not been able to buy or CGI his way into a few more "There's no place like home..." or The Best Years of Our Lives moments, which I suspect he is going for in almost every movie he makes now.
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post #17 of 48 Old 05-02-2013, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Norseman View Post

I thought "Lincoln" was a good movie, but not a great one...
Too much modern day 'political correctness' and revisionist history in this thing to pass the smell test also.
Credible acting performances all around though, but a long and boring film as well.

Spielberg does have a tendency to layer on the sugar, and to pull relentlessly at heart strings that don't wanna be pulled by obvious deliberate manipulation!
I give it 3.5 out of 5 stars (max).
Thanks, just reminded me why off all the genre I can enjoy except Bio's and historical films is that they try to rewrite history or tell us their version like they were there and knew exactly what went down. Which is why I can't stand films like Ray, Ali, Dragon - the Bruce Lee biopic, Red Tails, Fly boys, Letters from Iwo Jima nonsense, etc.

And Ok like I just don't get why he had to do Lincoln in the 1st place. Haven't we had enough of him throughout grade school, High school, and college with US history? My fav topic or subject in HS or college was not art, ceramics, or any of the fun stuff but History..Ancient or US but I still could not find anything remotely interesting about his Lincoln. History was thee only class in college that I wouldn't fall asleep in. Any other class I was snoring within minutes but you give me stuff from Greek, Roman, Renaisance I would be wide awake alert with joy.

I mean fur Christ sakes, why not if you have to do an historical Bio...do something we don't know much about that could be entertaining or interesting. I.E Augustus & the Golden Era ok. Attila the Hun, Plato, Aristotle, Newton, Davinci, Galileo.. anyone from the scientific or Resnasance like etc something like that. Or I can always use some pre-historic stuff man or creatures like Cro-magno cave men, white ape stuff. Evolution sure why not
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post #18 of 48 Old 05-02-2013, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hitchfan View Post

You know, MN, as massively successful as his movies have been box office-wise, I'm sure Steven Spielberg, the director, would love to have to his all time credit a scene of sentimentality equal to or surpassing, say, the final "There's no place like home..." scene in Victor Fleming's The Wizard of Oz (or whichever committee of MGM directors and contributors were involved in creating it) and the homecoming sequences in William Wyler's WWII drama, The Best Years of Our Lives, each of which on the page would read about as blatantly manipulative as anything put to print and staged for a Hollywood film. And, like me, Spielberg probably found himself weeping like an infant on the umpteenth viewing of each movie well into adulthood and middle age. But he just doesn't have it in him to know how to do it himself. IMO, nothing in E.T. or Always or Saving Private Ryan compares to those examples nor will they continue to trigger such an audience response for decades to come. It is possible the "I should have done more..." scene in Schindler's List might qualify, but I haven't noticed that movie working its way into the movie-going psyche over the past couple of decades the way many of those by Fleming, Capra, Wyler and others did.

Spielberg's most notable and effective directorial choices were in Jaws. But those were choices he had to make because the damn mechanical shark didn't work, choices he never would have made on his own if the available technology and his budget had allowed for it. Well virtually since Jaws, Spielberg's available technology and budget has allowed for almost any choices he's wanted to make and, personally, those choices have largely left me cold. Yes, they've made a ton of money, but he has not been able to buy or CGI his way into a few more "There's no place like home..." or The Best Years of Our Lives moments, which I suspect he is going for in almost every movie he makes now.
Wow, great analysis...well done, sir.cool.gif



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And Ok like I just don't get why he had to do Lincoln in the 1st place. Haven't we had enough of him throughout grade school, High school, and college with US history? My fav topic or subject in HS or college was not art, ceramics, or any of the fun stuff but History..Ancient or US but I still could not find anything remotely interesting about his Lincoln. History was thee only class in college that I wouldn't fall asleep in. Any other class I was snoring within minutes but you give me stuff from Greek, Roman, Renaisance I would be wide awake alert with joy.
History was my great academic love.

When I hit college, one of my profs asked me if I wanted to make a career of it.
I asked what the pay was like....and promptly switched majors to Bus. Admin.

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post #19 of 48 Old 05-03-2013, 08:11 AM
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Looks like our prayers have been answered. After Robopocalypse which will prob be awesome, SS will be doing this. I hope he's reading our forum and gets his ole self back.

Steven Spielberg to Direct ‘American Sniper’, Starring Bradley Cooper:

The source book, which is titled “American Sniper: The Autobiography of the Most Lethal Sniper in U.S. Military History,” is an autobiography written by former Navy SEAL Chris Kyle – who, in a cruelly-ironic and tragic turn, was killed at a shooting range by a fellow vet earlier this year. He currently holds the record for most confirmed sniper kills in U.S. history (150, officially).
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post #20 of 48 Old 05-03-2013, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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former Navy SEAL Chris Kyle – who, in a cruelly-ironic and tragic turn, was killed at a shooting range by a fellow vet earlier this year.
Karma?

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post #21 of 48 Old 05-03-2013, 08:23 PM
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Karma?
Holy crap, no sh1T Oink? I totally believe in that kind of stuff. If you commit harsh acts of violence like murder, kidnapping, sodomy, rape, etc you will come back in the next life as a horrible life...living in 3rd world picking through trash, or become a rat or deer and get torn alive by lions or something.
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post #22 of 48 Old 05-03-2013, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by zoey67 View Post

Holy crap, no sh1T Oink? I totally believe in that kind of stuff. If you commit harsh acts of violence like murder, kidnapping, sodomy, rape, etc you will come back in the next life as a horrible life...living in 3rd world picking through trash, or become a rat or deer and get torn alive by lions or something.

Really? anal sex? on the same level as murder? zoey puhleeese wink.gif ...come to think of it, if the guy becomes a dog in his next life, at least he can do it doggy style without risking jail time!

I'm wondering though...following that karma logic, what are the various reincarnation options for a cockroach?


tongue.gif
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post #23 of 48 Old 05-03-2013, 09:57 PM
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Really? anal sex? on the same level as murder? zoey puhleeese wink.gif ...come to think of it, if the guy becomes a dog in his next life, at least he can do it doggy style without risking jail time!

I'm wondering though...following that karma logic, what are the various reincarnation options for a cockroach?


tongue.gif
Uh-oh..did I just open up big giant can of worms. But yes Morph my friend, I never knew the crazy things one can do to another human being until I've been watching that show on A&E " I survived". These people relive the night mare and what they went through when they were kidnapped and held as sex slaves. It will blow your mind the level of barbaric and violence these serial rapists and killers do once they get you in their basement.

If you haven't seen the show I cannot highly rec it more..in fact I DVR every ep and to me each ep is just as stimulating and intriguing as watching a good suspenseful drama film like Mystic River or something. I mean these are real people with real crazy sh1t events that went down and they by the grace of god was able to escape from their captors or killers. It's an awesome show man trust me
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post #24 of 48 Old 05-03-2013, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zoey67 View Post

Holy crap, no sh1T Oink? I totally believe in that kind of stuff. If you commit harsh acts of violence like murder, kidnapping, sodomy, rape, etc you will come back in the next life as a horrible life...living in 3rd world picking through trash, or become a rat or deer and get torn alive by lions or something.
I meant it more in the way of the old Christian aphorism "As you sow, so shall you reap" (tongue firmly in cheek).

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what are the various reincarnation options for a cockroach?
I do know there is one they would be over-qualified for: politician.

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post #25 of 48 Old 05-03-2013, 11:03 PM
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Karma?

His targets apparently had enough bad karma themselves to allow 150 of them to be eliminated from the gene pool.

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post #26 of 48 Old 05-04-2013, 12:35 AM - Thread Starter
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His targets apparently had enough bad karma themselves to allow 150 of them to be eliminated from the gene pool.
True.

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post #27 of 48 Old 05-04-2013, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

Karma?
I always seem to have good "carma" and get the closest parking space. wink.gif
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post #28 of 48 Old 05-04-2013, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

I always seem to have good "carma" and get the closest parking space. wink.gif
LOL, I am envious....
I'll be needing a good one next week when I catch the ALMS race at Laguna Seca.

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post #29 of 48 Old 05-05-2013, 01:22 AM
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I always seem to have good "carma" and get the closest parking space. wink.gif
Ok are you sure about that. That's great and indeed maybe good karma but you better not be one those jerks that nose dive your car in there out of nowhere when some ones who's been patiently waiting for the spot to open up. Those are the worst *******s and deserve their tires to be slashed
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post #30 of 48 Old 05-05-2013, 08:15 AM
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SS jumped the shark, for me, when he came out with the anniversary edition of E.T" where he digitally replaced the guns with...walkie-talkies? I knew at this point that everything else would be P.C., sugar-coated, shovel-it-deep, story-telling. Not to say that kind of thing is wrong (on a business level.) Reminds me of a comedian who visited my show one time. He was the one who warmed the audience up each night before Letterman came out. He said, "When your act depends on raunch, there are only a few places you get booked. When your act is family-friendly, you play EVERYWHERE." That's Spielberg. He doesn't wallow in the gutter. Nor does he get overally cerebral and go over your head. He knows who the general movie-going audience and plays to them appropriately. The girlfriend got me "Lincoln" the other day for my birthday. I promised her I wouldn't watch until she had an off-night and we could watch it together. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until then.

For the record, I hated "E.T." Still do. Don't even consider it sci-fi.

"I am NOT suffering from insanity... I happen to be enjoying myself!"

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