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post #91 of 186 Old 08-08-2013, 08:23 AM
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Everybody has an opinion of this film, even in Hollywood. Here's Mark Wahlberg's:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/07/mark-wahlberg-lone-ranger_n_3721398.html?utm_hp_ref=entertainment

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post #92 of 186 Old 08-08-2013, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by smudge981 View Post

Everybody has an opinion of this film, even in Hollywood. Here's Mark Wahlberg's:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/07/mark-wahlberg-lone-ranger_n_3721398.html?utm_hp_ref=entertainment
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"They're spending so much money to pull the wool over the audience's eyes with these effects-driven movies," Wahlberg said, while adding that the media is "targeting" the current run of expensive Hollywood blockbusters. "It's not like 'Jurassic Park,' where you saw something groundbreaking and innovative and said 'Holy ... I gotta see that. Every end-of-the-Earth movie kind of feels the same."

For its part, "The Lone Ranger" is not an end-of-the-Earth movie, but it did cost a reported $250 million. Despite $175 million in global grosses, the Depp film could wind up costing Disney $190 million in losses.

Yes, The Lone Ranger was not an "end-of-the-Earth" movie and neither were the Pirates... movies and some of the others. But I'm pretty sure Wahlberg was merely using that term to refer to any of these CGI spectaculars that employ CGI effects to create situations and scenes so over-the-top and so divorced from anything pertinent to the natural world they make an end-of-the-Earth turn in the story every bit as likely and every bit as "involving" with the next stroke of a computer key as a horse and rider galloping atop a speeding train and jumping from car to car.

I think Wahlberg characterized it perfectly.
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post #93 of 186 Old 08-08-2013, 11:43 AM
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Wahlberg is correct. We have now seen it all so now matter what you throw at us, it's just not impressive. YAWN is the reaction.

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post #94 of 186 Old 08-08-2013, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Wahlberg is correct. We have now seen it all so now matter what you throw at us, it's just not impressive. YAWN is the reaction.

I do think there is a large degree of this but I personally feel it's more that even the "common" things are being CGI'd that it takes away from the texture of the movie. It's like using beat machines in music. I love them and have nothing against them and have in fact used them myself. But does EVERYTHING need a beat machine or synthesizer? Same with movies. Lucas used computer generated clone troopers in scenes where he could have put a couple of actors in a costume. One scene, one project kind of thing I'd say ok, I applaud the effort, thanks for giving us something different and thanks for trying to progress the craft. But when everything is synthetic then it does lose something in terms of presentation and desensitizes the viewing experience overall as more and more are made that way.

Spend less dough and put a guy in a costume or stand him on an actual set or location. Maybe you'll save your budget and maybe you won't but I think in general you're already on your way to making a better movie. Just my opinion.
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post #95 of 186 Old 08-08-2013, 12:46 PM
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"They're spending so much money to pull the wool over the audience's eyes with these effects-driven movies," Wahlberg said

Says the guy starring in Transformers 4.
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post #96 of 186 Old 08-08-2013, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Osirus23 View Post

Says the guy starring in Transformers 4.

I think his point was that some movies need that over the top "end of Earth" production but most don't. The comparison being, Transformers ending up being a big budget CGI fest makes sense (to a degree)...Lone Ranger doesn't.
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post #97 of 186 Old 08-08-2013, 02:34 PM
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Yeah, big robots don't come cheap, but the original Lone Ranger mainly rode around with Tonto and punched out guys in black hats. Is that really something that needs a quarter of a billion dollars?

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post #98 of 186 Old 08-08-2013, 03:18 PM
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Yeah, big robots don't come cheap, but the original Lone Ranger mainly rode around with Tonto and punched out guys in black hats. Is that really something that needs a quarter of a billion dollars?

Do you have any idea how much it costs to clean a black cowboy hat?
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post #99 of 186 Old 08-08-2013, 07:00 PM
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Do you have any idea how much it costs to clean a black cowboy hat?

+1 *hee hee*

When you get down to it, people want to invest (buy in) to a storyline and all the CGI in the world is not going to make a bad storyline better.

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post #100 of 186 Old 08-09-2013, 08:03 AM
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+1
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post #101 of 186 Old 08-09-2013, 09:12 AM
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all the CGI in the world is not going to make a bad storyline better.

And in the Hollywood of today the writers are just cannibalizing comic books and other movies, with little experience of the theater or (God help us) books. And as far as life experience, it seems just to get into the business can take all your time and energy, leaving little time for travel or achieving non-film related goals. And the suits that green-light productions have it in their heads that storytelling has to have certain things in a certain order.

And age is fatal. Screenwriters universally bemoan that all the studios want are young writers, figuring they know what young viewers want. Sadly there is some truth in this prejudice, as a great many directors in their old age continue to make films that viewers no longer want to see. Spielberg is showing signs of this, and, sadly enough, so is Pixar.

But every so often a breath of fresh air comes along and makes a bundle, such as Silver Linings Playbook, which demonstrates what a non-conventional story and excellent performances can do.

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post #102 of 186 Old 08-09-2013, 09:28 AM
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And age is fatal. Screenwriters universally bemoan that all the studios want are young writers, figuring they know what young viewers want. Sadly there is some truth in this prejudice, as a great many directors in their old age continue to make films that viewers no longer want to see. Spielberg is showing signs of this, and, sadly enough, so is Pixar.

Spielberg's Lincoln made money. I found it to be a great drama. No doubt he will never recapture the crazy magic he had starting in 77 and lasting all the way until the early 90's, but he still makes good films and nearly all of them have made a profit with many being blockbusters.

Lucas was replaced by a Skrull post Empire Strikes Back, though I am a fan of WILLOW, despite its flaws (The R2D2 and C3PO clones that were those tiny little dudes, one played by Kevin Pollack).

Disney miscalculated with the property of The Lone Ranger. No one under 35 even knows who that is. The same thing happened with John Carter. Young people were asking "John Who?"

The Lone Ranger should have been a 40 to 50 million dollar western and no more than an hour and 45 minutes. Concentrate on the story and suspense and creating a legend. If it does well, then you can double the budget on the sequel. Unfortunately studios do not understand the concept of small big films. They are now completely obsessed with huge budgets being a safer bet.
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post #103 of 186 Old 08-09-2013, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post


Disney miscalculated with the property of The Lone Ranger. No one under 35 even knows who that is. The same thing happened with John Carter. Young people were asking "John Who?"

The Lone Ranger should have been a 40 to 50 million dollar western and no more than an hour and 45 minutes. Concentrate on the story and suspense and creating a legend. If it does well, then you can double the budget on the sequel. Unfortunately studios do not understand the concept of small big films. They are now completely obsessed with huge budgets being a safer bet.

Yup, looked like Disney wanted to recapture the lightning-in-a-bottle that POTC was with another long-moribund property, and thus brought in the POTC team. POTC had the recognition factor of being a long-running Disney theme park ride, I guess they thought the Lone Ranger would have similiar recognition. What was also a big mistake was casting Depp as,...Tonto. When I first read that, I went WTF?! He's NOT playing the title character? It was like if POTC 2 had Depp NOT playing Jack Sparrow.
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post #104 of 186 Old 08-09-2013, 11:11 AM
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What's really throwing me about the Lone Ranger decision is as simple as when was the last time you saw kids running around playing "cowboys and indians"? When was the last time you saw a kid running around playing cowboy anything? Sure, he (or she) may wear cowboy boots but the closet thing to a "real western" cowboy of late is Woody from Toy Story. You can find a pirate sword, hat or toy ship just about anywhere but six shooters aren't that easy to find I don't think.

Okay, so maybe the movie wasn't exactly marketed to kids or at least not heavily so, but even the demographic that Depp would appeal to has no grounding in the "wild west" days. That being said, why not RE-introduce the Lone Ranger as a cartoon or tv show on one of Disney's networks? Or, reinvent him in some future version? IMO, you'd have at least just as good a shot at it turning into something more than a "flop". Disney is pretty good at what they do but I just don't understand the thinking on this one to make a run at something that hasn't any footing on even a broad level.
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post #105 of 186 Old 08-09-2013, 11:16 AM
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What was also a big mistake was casting Depp as,...Tonto. When I first read that, I went WTF?! He's NOT playing the title character? It was like if POTC 2 had Depp NOT playing Jack Sparrow.
Agreed.
Depp could have brought his quirky character humor to the part more so than what's his name.

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post #106 of 186 Old 08-09-2013, 01:39 PM
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What's really throwing me about the Lone Ranger decision is as simple as when was the last time you saw kids running around playing "cowboys and indians"? When was the last time you saw a kid running around playing cowboy anything?
Heck, today when the kids play cowboys and Indians they are arrested and called racist or dangerous or both. Make your finger into a fake gun and you go to reform school. So who the heck under 18 is going to know what the Lone Ranger is?

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post #107 of 186 Old 08-09-2013, 02:30 PM
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Says the guy starring in Transformers 4.

This is, word for word, exactly what I was just getting ready to write until I saw you beat me to it. smile.gif

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post #108 of 186 Old 08-09-2013, 02:39 PM
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This is, word for word, exactly what I was just getting ready to write until I saw you beat me to it. smile.gif

Go for it anyway Josh! Hollywood pushes out retreads all the time. Nothing new to us! biggrin.gif
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Heck, today when the kids play cowboys and Indians they are arrested and called racist or dangerous or both. Make your finger into a fake gun and you go to reform school.
Matt...are you OK?

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post #110 of 186 Old 08-09-2013, 09:55 PM
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why not RE-introduce the Lone Ranger as a cartoon or tv show on one of Disney's networks? Or, reinvent him in some future version? IMO, you'd have at least just as good a shot at it turning into something more than a "flop". Disney is pretty good at what they do but I just don't understand the thinking on this one to make a run at something that hasn't any footing on even a broad level.

The time of The Lone Ranger is past because westerns are a thing of the past. Clint Eastwood made his legend as a dark Lone Ranger, one who kills people. There is nothing new to say about the whole Lone Ranger and Tonto situation. Disney was probably hoping for another California Adventure environment.

Disney has long had a problem with live-action films. Lots of caper films with children getting mixed up with thieves, bland vehicles for Fred MacMurray (a big investor in the studio), comedies with animals. Just try imdb searches on Walt Disney and Walt Disney Productions and see if you can find memorable non-cartoon movies. They were usually years behind in the sort of movies they churned out. And now in two consecutive summers they have come out with truly awe-inspiring money-losers. And they look as if they may have poisoned the well of Pixar too.

And John Carter of Mars? It will probably never find an audience because it's a bore and it has been mined for ideas for the last forty years at least, leaving just a dated kind of western in outer space now that it has finally been filmed.

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post #111 of 186 Old 08-09-2013, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

What's really throwing me about the Lone Ranger decision is as simple as when was the last time you saw kids running around playing "cowboys and indians"? When was the last time you saw a kid running around playing cowboy anything? Sure, he (or she) may wear cowboy boots but the closet thing to a "real western" cowboy of late is Woody from Toy Story. You can find a pirate sword, hat or toy ship just about anywhere but six shooters aren't that easy to find I don't think.

Hell, I'm surrounded by the real thing where I live. biggrin.gif

Let's look at the the old comic strip, comic book, and TV series franchises and see where the miscalculations were. There was the Phantom, The Shadow (call me crazy but it was a guilty pleasure), Dick Tracy, Flash Gordon, Scott Pilgrim Vs. the World, Green Lantern, Catwoman, The Punisher, Treasure Planet, Pinocchio (w/Roberto Benigni), Jonah Hex, Speed Racer, Battlefield: Earth, Wild Wild West, The Avengers (you know, John Steed and Emma Peel), etc. It's been a matter of studios betting on lesser characters and the characters of former generations. Don't even get me start on video game disasters.
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post #112 of 186 Old 08-10-2013, 07:28 AM
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Are we saying that 'originality' is a trait and talent severely lacking at Disney, and Hollywood in general?
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post #113 of 186 Old 08-10-2013, 07:29 AM
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Matt...are you OK?

He's fine, and he's also right. Btw, if the movie would've generated as much interest at the box office as it did here on AVS, it would'a been a blockbuster. Boy, we sure like to discuss the bombs here.biggrin.gif

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post #114 of 186 Old 08-10-2013, 09:22 AM
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Are we saying that 'originality' is a trait and talent severely lacking at Disney, and Hollywood in general?

Maybe it's more like recent history has suggested that originality is a bigger gamble than imitation, especially when things being imitated blowed up real good or had things in them that gave off fire and sparks and were overseen by half a dozen special f/x companies.

But so many imitative films are coming out that the few good ones are being missed amidst the garbage. The failure of so many huge films may force studios to try something different. Audiences eventually get tired of a steady diet of the same old stuff.

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post #115 of 186 Old 08-10-2013, 11:23 AM
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Boy, we sure like to discuss the bombs here.biggrin.gif
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post #116 of 186 Old 08-10-2013, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

What's really throwing me about the Lone Ranger decision is as simple as when was the last time you saw kids running around playing "cowboys and indians"? When was the last time you saw a kid running around playing cowboy anything? Sure, he (or she) may wear cowboy boots but the closet thing to a "real western" cowboy of late is Woody from Toy Story. You can find a pirate sword, hat or toy ship just about anywhere but six shooters aren't that easy to find I don't think.

Okay, so maybe the movie wasn't exactly marketed to kids or at least not heavily so, but even the demographic that Depp would appeal to has no grounding in the "wild west" days. That being said, why not RE-introduce the Lone Ranger as a cartoon or tv show on one of Disney's networks? Or, reinvent him in some future version? IMO, you'd have at least just as good a shot at it turning into something more than a "flop". Disney is pretty good at what they do but I just don't understand the thinking on this one to make a run at something that hasn't any footing on even a broad level.

I don't get why they thought a spoof of The Lone Ranger would be of interest to anyone right now. After all, that's what the movie was, a spoof of The Lone Ranger, not the real deal. I don't think any baby-boomers who had fond memories of the series were looking for a spoof after all these years where the title character is lampooned as an idiot. As you suggest, I doubt many people under the age of 30 are all that familiar with The Lone Ranger and it isn't as though there has been a treasure trove of classic hero westerns lately against which a spoof might work. I mean, really, who was supposed to be the target audience for this mess other than the spill over from the POTC franchise on the strength of Depp's face and name in the trailer?
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post #117 of 186 Old 08-10-2013, 02:18 PM
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I don't get why they thought a spoof of The Lone Ranger would be of interest to anyone right now. After all, that's what the movie was, a spoof of The Lone Ranger, not the real deal. I don't think any baby-boomers who had fond memories of the series were looking for a spoof after all these years where the title character is lampooned as an idiot. As you suggest, I doubt many people under the age of 30 are all that familiar with The Lone Ranger and it isn't as though there has been a treasure trove of classic hero westerns lately against which a spoof might work. I mean, really, who was supposed to be the target audience for this mess other than the spill over from the POTC franchise on the strength of Depp's face and name in the trailer?

Disney must have felt that the POTC team could work their magic on ANYTHING, and so decided to see what unused long-moribund property they could reserect into another tentpole franschise. Unfortunately, whle pirates still have a popular appeal, the Lone Ranger wasn't just moribund, but dead and long-forgotten except by aging baby boomers. I was really puzzled when this was announced, and knew it was going to be a failure when Depp wasn't going to be the title character. Someone mentioned it earlier, but the movie should have been titled Tonto...And Some Guy Wearing A Mask. Yup, who cares biggrin.gif
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post #118 of 186 Old 08-10-2013, 04:04 PM
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I don't get why they thought a spoof of The Lone Ranger would be of interest to anyone right now. After all, that's what the movie was, a spoof of The Lone Ranger, not the real deal. I don't think any baby-boomers who had fond memories of the series were looking for a spoof after all these years where the title character is lampooned as an idiot. As you suggest, I doubt many people under the age of 30 are all that familiar with The Lone Ranger and it isn't as though there has been a treasure trove of classic hero westerns lately against which a spoof might work. I mean, really, who was supposed to be the target audience for this mess other than the spill over from the POTC franchise on the strength of Depp's face and name in the trailer?
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Disney must have felt that the POTC team could work their magic on ANYTHING, and so decided to see what unused long-moribund property they could reserect into another tentpole franschise. Unfortunately, whle pirates still have a popular appeal, the Lone Ranger wasn't just moribund, but dead and long-forgotten except by aging baby boomers. I was really puzzled when this was announced, and knew it was going to be a failure when Depp wasn't going to be the title character. Someone mentioned it earlier, but the movie should have been titled Tonto...And Some Guy Wearing A Mask. Yup, who cares biggrin.gif
I think this is the universal opinion on the forum regarding the movie.
Like John Carter, it didn't make sense when it was announced and now, after the movies have been made, it still doesn't make sense.

Too bad Disney didn't listen to us....we could have saved 'em many millions.wink.gif

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post #119 of 186 Old 08-11-2013, 10:00 AM
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IMHO, a serious approach to LR could be successful, with intelligent writing and decent cast selection.
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post #120 of 186 Old 08-11-2013, 02:01 PM
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IMHO, a serious approach to LR could be successful, with intelligent writing and decent cast selection.
I don't think Hollywood is interested in that kind of approach. They prefer the CGI-laden blockbuster with the "bankable" star, accompanied by marketing tie ins.
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