Gravity in 3D and Dolby Atmos - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 164 Old 10-15-2013, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

I would think that whatever consumer processors Dolby and DTS come up with will only scale to around 20 some speakers and they'll probably use the 7.1 + two overheads + LFE configuration and then it will be up to the consumer to fill in the gaps if he/she wishes for a much more enveloping experience.

The best thing to do would be to have a base Atmos/MDA unit that had at least 9.2 (7.1 + dual overheads + dual subwoofer outs) or 11.2 outputs (base 9.1 channel bed config. + wide L/R side surround output) and then you could attach a module that would link to the unit digitally for command and control, allowing you to add the rest of the speaker outputs for the full effect.

Though, the soundtrack would still contain information for even more rendered speaker locations if they decided to come out with a processor capable of the complete theatrical experience for more sophisticated and larger home theater viewing rooms.

The scalability would still be there no matter what and the studios wouldn't have to keep making more versions just to add more "channels" as they do now.

That's pretty much how I see it too. The greatest selling point to the consumer public IS that it is much, much more flexible wrt speaker placement compared to any other discrete channel digital audio delivery system. However, there is still a standard for a surround layout and that's what will be used in the mixing studios and that's what we will continue to replicate at home.

Blah blah blah. I want my overhead surrounds!!!! tongue.gif

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post #92 of 164 Old 10-15-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

You get the original channel-based theatrical mix and a new object surround optimized mix for your favorite movies.

If a movie is mixed in Atmos, it doesn't need a separate channel-based mix. The Atmos processor can output to any speaker configuration, from basic stereo up to 64.1. Standard 5.1 and 7.1 are easy presets programmed into the software.
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Atmos is a hybrid 9.1 channel + object oriented format. It is not a pure object bitstream like DTS MDA can be.

Both Atmos and MDA are hybrid formats that can be exclusive channel-based, exclusive object-based, or any blend of those two things as the film's sound mixers deem appropriate. There is no requirement that Atmos have 9.2 channel beds, or any channel beds at all. However, the reality of the situation is that some sound elements (especially a musical score) make more sense to lay in as channel beds than as objects.

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post #93 of 164 Old 10-15-2013, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

If a movie is mixed in Atmos, it doesn't need a separate channel-based mix. The Atmos processor can output to any speaker configuration, from basic stereo up to 64.1. Standard 5.1 and 7.1 are easy presets programmed into the software.
Both Atmos and MDA are hybrid formats that can be exclusive channel-based, exclusive object-based, or any blend of those two things as the film's sound mixers deem appropriate. There is no requirement that Atmos have 9.2 channel beds, or any channel beds at all. However, the reality of the situation is that some sound elements (especially a musical score) make more sense to lay in as channel beds than as objects.

What I mean is that if a pure object-oriented or hybrid format contained within a consumer based medium, the medium will have to contain some sort of audio track that is backwards compatible with today's surround processors. If space is a concern, they could go with a standard lossy DTS track for backup and a premium hybrid channel + objects track for the main "event."

DTS MDA can be completely object based or a hybrid. I did not realize that Dolby Atmos could be both as well. Though, I think Roger Dressler is right that they'll probably stick with a hybrid channel bed + metadata controlled objects approach. He even seemed to think that they might piggyback extension data on top of current DTS Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD lossless codecs (use that for the channel beds and with add-on extension data containing the objects). It's hard to say if they'd scrap their current codecs and start from scratch or not. But there will have to be a backwards track of some sort.

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post #94 of 164 Old 10-15-2013, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

"SCALING NEW HEIGHTS IN BROADCASTING USING AMBISONICS" (link), a paper by two BBC Researchers, talks about (live) concert recording using 100+ mikes, and evaluating 3D speaker layout preferences while listening to a custom recording of a radio play with height cues in a specially designed test room...



And yes, regardless of the results, this does indeed seem like a difficult speaker configuration to replicate correctly for every seat in a movie theater! biggrin.gif


The Hamasaki 22.2 speaker configuration for NHK's forthcoming UHDTV1|UHDTV2 system (with three front lower layer speakers) plus some very experimental 7.1 speaker downmix configurations derived from the full 22.2 setup make use of front lower layer speakers...



NHK has experimented with 'below eye line' microphone placement for 'enhanced sound capture' at live sporting events. However, it would appear from this TVBEUROPE article (link) that playback of those sounds is not intended to be limited to the lower layer speakers...?!


The ETRI 30.2 experimental theatrical speaker layout takes a similar approach but includes five front lower layer speakers...

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01


The imm sound 23.1 configuration featured a Bottom Front Left|Right speaker pair...



Interestingly, I see no sign of similarly placed speakers in the Dolby Atmos configuration that (presumably) benefits from Dolby's acquisition of imm sound...?! cool.gif
_

Good stuff, thx!

Perhaps it would only be practical in a home theater, but can you imagine during an earthquake, hearing the ground beneath you crack or virtually any air/space fight scene hearing things whiz by below?
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post #95 of 164 Old 10-15-2013, 08:19 PM
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Good stuff, thx!

Perhaps it would only be practical in a home theater, but can you imagine during an earthquake, hearing the ground beneath you crack or virtually any air/space fight scene hearing things whiz by below?

Not gonna happen. It's easier to put speakers on the walls and ceiling than below you.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #96 of 164 Old 10-15-2013, 08:54 PM
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I also saw this in a Harkins Atmos theater yesterday...in the Phoenix area.

Regarding a critique of the film, I found the scenario terrifying, but the performances a bit out of place a lot of the time. The last 1/4 of the movie just didn't make the emotional delivery it wanted to. Having sat for months at a time watching these things sort out on the set (including a feature with Sandra), I can tell you that this is a directing issue. Both George and Sandra are more than capable.

On PQ...my viewing was 2D. The absolutes of space require the perception of stark reality. Is that resolution? Yes, but...IMO, since it couldn't have 4K, what it really needed was HFR...even in 2D. HFR would have given the movie a "Holy s***, this is happening RIGHT NOW" urgency. It had a bit of it, but nothing like it could have. Of course, directors still have to direct well.

On Atmos, I was immensely impressed by its general execution and potential. Regarding Dan's comment on the ceiling array not being used much. It was, but almost exclusively for ambience and (very effectively) assistance wtih smoothing pans from wall to wall. Mixers are going to be on the learning curve for a while.

You can see my more detailed tech observations and photos on the Klipsch speaker thread here http://www.avsforum.com/t/680426/klipsch-owner-thread/27180#post_23838850
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post #97 of 164 Old 10-15-2013, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

I also saw this in a Harkins Atmos theater yesterday...in the Phoenix area.

Regarding a critique of the film, I found the scenario terrifying, but the performances a bit out of place a lot of the time. The last 1/4 of the movie just didn't make the emotional delivery it wanted to. Having sat for months at a time watching these things sort out on the set (including a feature with Sandra), I can tell you that this is a directing issue. Both George and Sandra are more than capable.

On PQ...my viewing was 2D. The absolutes of space require the perception of stark reality. Is that resolution? Yes, but...IMO, since it couldn't have 4K, what it really needed was HFR...even in 2D. HFR would have given the movie a "Holy s***, this is happening RIGHT NOW" urgency. It had a bit of it, but nothing like it could have. Of course, directors still have to direct well.

On Atmos, I was immensely impressed by its general execution and potential. Regarding Dan's comment on the ceiling array not being used much. It was, but almost exclusively for ambience and (very effectively) assistance wtih smoothing pans from wall to wall. Mixers are going to be on the learning curve for a while.

You can see my more detailed tech observations and photos on the Klipsch speaker thread here http://www.avsforum.com/t/680426/klipsch-owner-thread/27180#post_23838850

The Harkins I saw Gravity in, near Commerce City, seemed to have been retrofitted for Atmos as you could easily tell the extra speakers (front wide sidewall surrounds, back corners, and ceilings) were somewhat larger and of a different model to the existing side and back wall speakers.

I will put my hand on a stack of bibles that if object-based audio makes its way to the home, you will absolutely want timbre matched speakers for the fronts and all the surrounds (monopole surrounds too). No if's, and's, or but's! If movies get mixed as aggressively or more aggressively than Gravity, especially in regards to directionalized dialog, this will become very apparent.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #98 of 164 Old 10-15-2013, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

I also saw this in a Harkins Atmos theater yesterday...in the Phoenix area.

Regarding a critique of the film, I found the scenario terrifying, but the performances a bit out of place a lot of the time. The last 1/4 of the movie just didn't make the emotional delivery it wanted to. Having sat for months at a time watching these things sort out on the set (including a feature with Sandra), I can tell you that this is a directing issue. Both George and Sandra are more than capable.

On PQ...my viewing was 2D. The absolutes of space require the perception of stark reality. Is that resolution? Yes, but...IMO, since it couldn't have 4K, what it really needed was HFR...even in 2D. HFR would have given the movie a "Holy s***, this is happening RIGHT NOW" urgency. It had a bit of it, but nothing like it could have. Of course, directors still have to direct well.

On Atmos, I was immensely impressed by its general execution and potential. Regarding Dan's comment on the ceiling array not being used much. It was, but almost exclusively for ambience and (very effectively) assistance wtih smoothing pans from wall to wall. Mixers are going to be on the learning curve for a while.

You can see my more detailed tech observations and photos on the Klipsch speaker thread here http://www.avsforum.com/t/680426/klipsch-owner-thread/27180#post_23838850

I hate the idea of HFR in a movie like the Hobbit, but you're right it would've worked pretty well here. Especially in the video game-like first person sequences.
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post #99 of 164 Old 10-16-2013, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by emcdad,= 
I hate the idea of HFR in a movie like the Hobbit, but you're right it would've worked pretty well here. Especially in the video game-like first person sequences.

I failed to mention that, like you, I want nothing to do with HFR in a movie set in the "once upon a time" realm like The Hobbit.

Dan's point on speaker timbre-matching is critical. In the Harkens theater I was in, I was amazed at how well they did!
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post #100 of 164 Old 10-16-2013, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post

Good stuff, thx!

Perhaps it would only be practical in a home theater, but can you imagine during an earthquake, hearing the ground beneath you crack or virtually any air/space fight scene hearing things whiz by below?

Not gonna happen. It's easier to put speakers on the walls and ceiling than below you.

"Butt shakers" have been available for a long time. Currently their inputs are derived from subwoofer channels, but it seems reasonable to me to have a dedicated channel for them, or to have their inputs derived from a "subterranean" audio object.

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post #101 of 164 Old 10-16-2013, 09:42 AM
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I hate the idea of HFR in a movie like the Hobbit, but you're right it would've worked pretty well here. Especially in the video game-like first person sequences.

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I failed to mention that, like you, I want nothing to do with HFR in a movie set in the "once upon a time" realm like The Hobbit.

Dan's point on speaker timbre-matching is critical. In the Harkens theater I was in, I was amazed at how well they did!

Hey. Great point about HFR, guys. Something I never thought about that would possible improve the 'look'. Still, what impressive visual effects are already there. Wow.

Cam Man, thanks for the link and pics of your visit to Harkins.

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post #102 of 164 Old 10-16-2013, 11:26 AM
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Hey. Great point about HFR, guys. Something I never thought about that would possible improve the 'look'. Still, what impressive visual effects are already there. Wow.

Cam Man, thanks for the link and pics of your visit to Harkins.

My pleasure. smile.gif

Yes, when the s*** starts hitting the fan, it is just flat out terrifying...and, IMO, even more so Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
with the absence of sccompanying sound in the vacuum.
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We have many choices here in Hong Kong from iMAX 3D, 3D Motion Chair D-box, 2D D-box, 3D (Master Image) to 2D.  I watched 3D (Master Image) version last night. Though the movie is relatively short and simple, one will have the "in the scene" experience due to stunning AV effects. 

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post #104 of 164 Old 10-16-2013, 07:16 PM
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We have many choices here in Hong Kong from iMAX 3D, 3D Motion Chair D-box, 2D D-box, 3D (Master Image) to 2D.  I watched 3D (Master Image) version last night. Though the movie is relatively short and simple, one will have the "in the scene" experience due to stunning AV effects. 

You need to hear Gravity 3D in Dolby Atmos.
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post #105 of 164 Old 10-17-2013, 02:41 AM
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Dolby Atmos is available in Hong Kong at "The Grand" cinema from June 17, 2013.  They charge about HK$40 (US$5) more, i.e. HK$135 (US$16) for a 3D Dolby Atmos ticket.  I must try this next time but not with "the Gravity" again. :)

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post #106 of 164 Old 10-17-2013, 03:30 AM
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Dolby Atmos is available in Hong Kong at "The Grand" cinema from June 17, 2013.  They charge about HK$40 (US$5) more, i.e. HK$135 (US$16) for a 3D Dolby Atmos ticket.  I must try this next time but not with "the Gravity" again. smile.gif



Hi, do you guys get a better quality blu ray for HT use?

Thanks.
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post #107 of 164 Old 10-17-2013, 08:25 AM
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Hi, do you guys get a better quality blu ray for HT use?

Thanks.

They use exactly the same Blu-ray specs that the rest of the world does. However, if the BDA comes out with a finalized UHD disc, Japan will get the experimental version first. They're usually the guinea pigs. Their broadcasts are more sophisticated than ours. As long as somebody has the coins to buy a fancier TV that few have, they'll be able to watch these pilot channels. NHK is already experimenting with various UHD broadcasts... and even 8k broadcasts... all with 20+ audio channels!

The U.S. is in the stone age, in more ways than one.

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post #108 of 164 Old 10-17-2013, 08:59 AM
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They use exactly the same Blu-ray specs that the rest of the world does. However, if the BDA comes out with a finalized UHD disc, Japan will get the experimental version first. They're usually the guinea pigs. Thier broadcasts are more sophisticated than ours. As long as somebody has the coins to buy a fancier TV that few have, they'll be able to watch these pilot channels. NHK is already experimenting with various UHD broadcasts... and even 8k broadcasts... all with 20+ audio channels!

The U.S. is in the stone age, in more ways than one.



Yes it appears we are.
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post #109 of 164 Old 10-17-2013, 10:15 AM
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Sorry if I missed it while scanning this thread, but how many discrete speaker channels of the 62.2 (64) channels total does this particular movie, Gravity in 3D, use?

 

Yes, I understand how many I actually get exposed to is dictated by the particular Dolby Atmos theater I attend, but what I want to know about is the master soundtrack.


In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #110 of 164 Old 10-17-2013, 11:06 AM
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Sorry if I missed it while scanning this thread, but how many discrete speaker channels of the 62.2 (64) channels total does this particular movie, Gravity in 3D, use?

Yes, I understand how many I actually get exposed to is dictated by the particular Dolby Atmos theater I attend, but what I want to know about is the master soundtrack.

With Atmos, the number of speakers the soundtrack comes out of is not dictated by channels. Sound elements are encoded as objects in a 3D space. The sound of those objects will come out of whichever speaker maps closest to their position in the soundfield. There is only one master Atmos soundtrack, which can map to any configuration from 2 speakers up to 64. Copies of that same master are shipped to every Atmos theater, regardless of how many speakers they have installed.

So, the answer is, Gravity's soundtrack uses as many discrete speakers as your local Atmos theater can accomodate, whatever that number happens to be.

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post #111 of 164 Old 10-17-2013, 12:09 PM
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The base is usually 7.1 or 9.1 channels + objects.

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post #112 of 164 Old 10-17-2013, 01:05 PM
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Josh Z., please re-read what I wrote. I didn't say "channels", I said "discrete speaker channels", and I'm asking about this particular movie, not "how many is Atmos capable of?".

 

Perhaps you are under the impression that when visiting an Atmos theater (one with the maximum of 64 speaker feeds)  that each speaker gets a different feed for every movie they show. I disagree. The system is capable of that but I don't think every Atmos encoded movie is made that way, and I want to find out about the movie "Gravity", so I thought this would be a good thread to ask my question.


In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #113 of 164 Old 10-17-2013, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Josh Z., please re-read what I wrote. I didn't say "channels", I said "discrete speaker channels", and I'm asking about this particular movie, not "how many is Atmos capable of?".

Perhaps you are under the impression that when visiting an Atmos theater (one with the maximum of 64 speaker feeds)  that each speaker gets a different feed for every movie they show. I disagree. The system is capable of that but I don't think every Atmos encoded movie is made that way, and I want to find out about the movie "Gravity", so I thought this would be a good thread to ask my question.

You're really not understanding how Atmos works. It may have a bed of a small handful of standard channels (such as 7.1 or 9.1), but the rest of the soundtrack is encoded as objects in a 3D space that map to wherever the nearest speaker happens to be.

You shouldn't think of it in terms of "How many speakers will this soundtrack use?" The soundtrack will use as many speakers as the theater has installed, whether that's 5.1 or 62.2 or anything in between.

Think of what happens when you play a videogame. When there's a bad guy standing in front of you shooting, the sound of his gun comes from the front speakers. However, if you turn to the side, the sound automatically maps to the appropriate surround speaker that corresponds to where that bad guy is located relative to your p.o.v. The sound isn't tied to a specific speaker channel. It's an object in the 3D listening space that moves as you move and your p.o.v. changes.

The same thing happens with Atmos. It's a completely different way of thinking about how a soundtrack is created and mixed.

I've been to Dolby headquarters and had their top engineers demo Atmos for me in their reference screening room before it was ever installed in a movie theater for a paying audience. What I'm explaining you is the way it actually works.

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post #114 of 164 Old 10-17-2013, 04:43 PM
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What I'm explaining you is the way it actually works.

No, you are explaining how it was pitched to you and can work for some movies, and I would suspect is undoubtedly used for all show-off demo pieces they might play. You are naïve to think that all movies played in 64 speaker Atmos auditoriums will always have 64 discrete speaker feeds during every single Atmos encoded movie, just like there are some 5.1 movies and TV shows which never have any sound from the surround speakers, at any time, from start to finish.

 

Are you also of the mind that all Dolby Atmos movies are originally made from 128 simultaneous and lossless audio streams, no less,  just because they can be? Sheesh.


In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #115 of 164 Old 10-17-2013, 04:55 PM
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The base is usually 7.1 or 9.1 channels + objects.

Thanks.

 

My independent research has found it was made with a bed of 7.1, and I now see how discussing the actual number of objects (and how much panning is used), in a given movie, is contradictory to the notion they wish to portray of "128 discrete audio streams played through 62.2 different speaker feeds, unlike anything you have ever experienced, tell all your friends!"

 

I think the real answer to my question might be considered a trade secret that only a handful of recording engineers that made the movie would even know.


In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #116 of 164 Old 10-17-2013, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Thanks.

My independent research has found it was made with a bed of 7.1, and I now see how discussing the actual number of objects (and how much panning is used), in a given movie, is contradictory to the notion they wish to portray of "128 discrete audio streams played through 62.2 different speaker feeds, unlike anything you have ever experienced, tell all your friends!"

I think the real answer to my question might be considered a trade secret that only a handful of recording engineers that made the movie would even know.

You will never know the answer because every single movie is mixed with a different set of priorities. Some mixers are aggressive and others arent. A dialog driven movie verses an action flick. You answered your question above as the trade secrets of the mix wont be revealed

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post #117 of 164 Old 10-17-2013, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

You are naïve to think that all movies played in 64 speaker Atmos auditoriums will always have 64 discrete speaker feeds during every single Atmos encoded movie, just like there are some 5.1 movies and TV shows which never have any sound from the surround speakers, at any time, from start to finish.
IF there is never any content in the surround channels, then it is a 3.1 soundtrack on a 5.1 carrier.

When Atmos encoded movies are played in a theatre with 64 speakers, how many discrete speaker feeds do you believe there actually are?

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post #118 of 164 Old 10-18-2013, 07:54 AM
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IF there is never any content in the surround channels, then it is a 3.1 soundtrack on a 5.1 carrier.

Funny how the promotional literature, movie poster, and the retail box made no mention of that "3.1" part, just the 5.1 part.;)

 

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When Atmos encoded movies are played in a theatre with 64 speakers, how many discrete speaker feeds do you believe there actually are?

 

Through my research I've come to the conclusion that there currently aren't any 62.2 (64) speaker movie theaters, anywhere, not even at Dolby. In theory, Dolby sanctioned Atmos theaters can have as little as 9.1 speaker feeds to a max of 62.2. [The largest number of discrete speaker channels currently used in any Atmos theater in the US, that I'm aware of, is said to be 43, but new venues are popping up constantly, so that can change at any moment].  To answer your question theoretically though, "somewhere between 1 and 64", depending on the scene, the movie, the number of objects used, and if the objects move about, at all. Many are fixed.

---

 

Atmos is pitched to us as [paraphrased] "..and it cleverly scales down easily to 5.1 and 7.1 for smaller systems and venues, with the appropriate speaker mapping", but in truth, the way it is made is just the opposite, for many, if not most releases, including Taken 2 and Chasing Mavericks. What has been done is the 5.1 or 7.1 sound has been scaled up, by third party audio engineers/mixers, not the original mixing artists [I guess they never got the memo: "You don't mess with another person's art"] who then mess with it by simplistically adding, among other things, reverb, delays, "double bussing", and almost haphazardly adding "a few" objects, some moving, some fixed, assuming they can isolate them from the original mix, that they think would be appropriate, through a rather bumbling process of trial and error, it would seem:

 

http://designingsound.org/2012/11/ambiences-with-dolby-atmos/

 

Since, as I already mentioned in my previous post, the information I came to this thread for I've now concluded is considered an industry secret and unanswerable, I'm now gone and unsubscribing.

 

Bye all!


In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #119 of 164 Old 10-18-2013, 08:45 AM
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Since, as I already mentioned in my previous post, the information I came to this thread for I've now concluded is considered an industry secret and unanswerable, I'm now gone and unsubscribing.

Well, if true, that's awfully petulant of you. "You didn't tell me what I wanted to hear, so screw you guys, I'm outta here!" Doesn't exactly make us want to help answer your question.

In case anyone else is curious, it seems to me what Zillch really wanted to know is how aggressive the Atmos mix for Gravity is. I'll leave that for others who've been able to see it in Atmos to comment on. (Scott's original post in this thread does a good job of that.) The exact number of speakers the soundtrack uses will vary by theater, depending on how many speakers are installed and where they're located. An object somewhere in the middle of the listening space may only come from one speaker in a given theater, but come from two or three in another theater that has more speakers installed and positioned closely together. Assuring him that a specific number of speakers will be used is not possible, not because that's a trade secret, but because that's not how 3D objects work. They are not explicitly tied to specific speaker channels. If you remove a speaker, the sound object will migrate to the nearest available speaker instead.

Like any movie, some sound mixes will be more aggressive than others. This is not a fault of Atmos, any more than it's a fault of standard 5.1 that, for example, Woody Allen refuses to use surround sound in his movies.

Yes, some of the early Atmos mixes are built-up from standard 5.1 or 7.1 with a handful of 3D objects added, and probably don't make the most use of the format. As the technology matures and sound mixers get more comfortable with it, that will change and evolve. Many of these early Atmos movies (such as Brave, the first commercial Atmos release) were already well into post-production when Atmos became available to use, so it was sort of tacked on at the last minute. In the future, movies will be designed from the ground up with Atmos as the primary sound format and everything else a downconversion from that.

And yet, even in these native Atmos productions, the soundtrack will continue to use a bed of some standard sound channels, because some sound elements (like the musical score) simply do not make sense to encode as 3D objects.

Zillchy here seems to have approached this conversation with the attitude that Atmos is a bunch of bunk, and he's looking for an excuse to discredit it. It's his prerogative to feel about it however he wants, but it's awfully short-sighted of him to write off the whole sound format without giving it a fair shake.

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post #120 of 164 Old 10-18-2013, 09:50 AM
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Funny how the promotional literature, movie poster, and the retail box made no mention of that "3.1" part, just the 5.1 part.wink.gif
I have media with "3.0" and "4.1" on the retail box, even though the content is in a 5.1 carrier. Not like there is an industry-wide conspiracy to defraud of you a certain number of channels that were promised to you.
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To answer your question theoretically though, "somewhere between 1 and 64", depending on the scene, the movie, the number of objects used, and if the objects move about, at all.
If the answer can be "between" 1 and 64 discrete speaker feeds (e.g., 63), then why not 64?
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Atmos is pitched to us as [paraphrased] "..and it cleverly scales down easily to 5.1 and 7.1 for smaller systems and venues, with the appropriate speaker mapping", but in truth, the way it is made is just the opposite, for many, if not most releases, including Taken 2 and Chasing Mavericks.
This has been known since the very first Atmos movie (Brave) was released. It wasn't until the movie Oblivion that we got the first originated-in-Atmos soundtrack. Again, not like there was a conspiracy to hide this information, since sound mixers were discussing these Atmos mixes openly in tech journals. Also, Atmos wasn't "pitched" as exclusively object-based, but as a hybrid system that allowed channels and objects to be used together.
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Since, as I already mentioned in my previous post, the information I came to this thread for I've now concluded is considered an industry secret and unanswerable, I'm now gone and unsubscribing.
I don't blame you for running away. But again, if you don't know ("unanswerable") how many discrete feeds there are, then why are you so convinced it can't be 64? What is it about that particular number that you find so incredulous?

Sanjay
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