R.I.P. Paul Walker - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mrhan View Post

That's the thing about traction control...I don't understand why there's an OFF mode for street use. If the car is going to be for street use only there should not be a reason to turn it off
Exactly.......EXCEPT many guys use their cars for dual purposes: street AND track.
For example, Viper owners are famous for doing just this.
Many, if not most, track their cars.

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post #32 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 04:43 AM
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I used to autocross my old 928. Car handled so well it was like taking candy from a baby. wink.gif Then I grew weary of dropping a grand on tires every 6 months and retired from the sport. redface.gif

But it was lotsa' fun and not dangerous at all. Except to my wallet.
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post #33 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Jdog35 View Post

Oh...and in no way do I think the conversation was derailed by talking cars. If Paul Walker was anything like the person I have heard he was, he would be the first one to get this conversation turned toward what he loved most...not feeling sad for him but discussing, debating, and expressing our love for cars and driving. I know that's what I would much prefer were I in his shoes. And speaking of cars...the laundry list of Walker's collection is fantastic. VERY good taste that spans multiple themes and continents.

Well, it looks like it did bother some people here and had Oink's and my posts about cars remove. Your point of view says otherwise. Thank you.smile.gif

Walker would have probably chimed in on our discussion because of his extended knowledge of the Charger since he used them in the F&F films. So, I don't know how that is going off subject because like you said cars are the subject he's most passionate about and that's most likely what his friends and family are talking about when they recall old stories about him now. I don't get people sometimes with their knee jerk reactions just because something goes off in another direction and in this case it didn't. rolleyes.gif
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post #34 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Exactly.......EXCEPT many guys use their cars for dual purposes: street AND track.
For example, Viper owners are famous for doing just this.
Many, if not most, track their cars.

That's true but most people that buy high performance cars have more money than sense. I can picture some idiot with no real driving experience turning it off just to see what happens. They buy these cars and never take a real driving school. If you can afford the car you can surely afford a 3 day driving class on a racetrack and really know how to use the damn car.

i've actually driven the last generation Viper in the rain on Laguna Seca. That car is a monster. Then my instructor took me for some hot laps around the track and scared the crap out of me. He was drifting the car in the rain. I'm assuming you know that track. It's not a fast track by any sense but a technical one with a lot of curves.
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post #35 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhan View Post

I don't get people sometimes with their knee jerk reactions just because something goes off in another direction and in this case it didn't. rolleyes.gif

For the record, I didn't ask for any post to be removed. I don't know if my reaction should be considered "knee jerk" it's just that I thought this tragedy was still fresh to say the least and I figured maybe it was not the time to engage in a discussion about cars and all. Maybe I was wrong and that's fine. I don't mind these discussions, I love cars myself.
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Originally Posted by Jdog35 View Post

The unfortunate fact of the matter, whether you agree with TC or not, is that something went wrong in the driver's seat prior to the crash. I am not sure what the weather conditions were...but any and all TC could have been enabled, and if the tire pressures were too high (for example) and the ground was somewhat cold, that right there could have resulted in this catastrophic accident.

Apparently there's no TC on a Carrera GT.

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post #36 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mrhan View Post

If you can afford the car you can surely afford a 3 day driving class on a racetrack and really know
how to use the damn car.

The sad truth is that both Walker and Rodas most likely knew very well how to handle a beast like this. It looks like this particular car was problematic.

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post #37 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

The sad truth is that both Walker and Rodas most likely knew very well how to handle a beast like this. It looks like this particular car was problematic.

I was referring to the general population and not these guys. As for the car itself I think it has a lot to do with it's history. The previous owner ( Bobby Rahal) admits he drove the car hard and he stated it's a difficult car to drive. It may have had low mileage but it was all hard miles. It was bound to fail eventually even though I'm sure it was well maintained. I did post a link to the story but it was taken down.
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post #38 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 08:04 AM
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Surveillance Camera Captures Paul Walker Crash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxTVqmuZ2jY
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post #39 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post


Apparently there's no TC on a Carrera GT.

Yes, there is according to Walter Röhrl. He is a member of the design team and one of the fastest drivers around.


"Even with the ASC traction control active, the Carrera GT has a relatively lively rear end. Since there's no stability control-Porsche's PSM system is absent here-a degree of sudden sideways motion is liable to turn one's remaining hair a slightly lighter shade of gray. Rohrl says, "It's fun with a safety net, because the slide is always induced by g-force, not throttle-controlled wheelspin."

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0312_porsche_carrera_gt/viewall.html

During the development of the Carrera GT, famed Porsche tester and man with gigantic brass attachments Walter Rohrl told Australian website Drive that he was actually scared of the car and wanted them to fit traction control because of the unpredictable behavior at the limit.

http://jalopnik.com/the-leno-clip-is-nuts-hard-to-tell-from-that-perspecti-1475096159/@Plays-With-Cars
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post #40 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 11:37 AM
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Wow, now I want one. Thanks a lot. Lol

I remember when products were built to last.
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post #41 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 11:46 AM
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I could see a sue job. with that type of power traction control better be available.
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post #42 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 11:54 AM
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You would have already heard about it. Google lawsuits on the company. Any car dealer would have to know about it, if they're worth buying a car from. That aside, people that buy that car do it to go really fast, and pick up College age tail.

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post #43 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhan View Post

That's true but most people that buy high performance cars have more money than sense. I can picture some idiot with no real driving experience turning it off just to see what happens. They buy these cars and never take a real driving school. If you can afford the car you can surely afford a 3 day driving class on a racetrack and really know how to use the damn car.
A lot of guys who buy super or hyper cars never really drive them "fast" fast.
And for good reason, they know they lack the skills or large attachments necessary to do so.
The professionals (doctors, lawyers, etc.) typically buy one as a status symbol.
Nothing wrong with that; it's their $$$.

However, like you say, if they want to drive their vehicles FAST, they absolutely do need to take driving lessons from a professional instructor (which are usual available thru a local track).
Otherwise, very bad things can happen...

Quote:
i've actually driven the last generation Viper in the rain on Laguna Seca. That car is a monster. Then my instructor took me for some hot laps around the track and scared the crap out of me. He was drifting the car in the rain.
It's a humbling experience to ride along with a pro.wink.gif

Quote:
I'm assuming you know that track. It's not a fast track by any sense but a technical one with a lot of curves.
I was there this summer for the ALMS race and had a great time....would love to spend a few hours driving the track in my V.cool.gif

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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

I thought this tragedy was still fresh to say the least and I figured maybe it was not the time to engage in a discussion about cars and all.
This discussion is about the death of a famous actor who died in car crash involving a supercar and excess speed.
Sharing info concerning personal knowledge and experience of the elements involved in his death with other posters is NOT off-topic.

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Originally Posted by mrhan View Post

Surveillance Camera Captures Paul Walker Crash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxTVqmuZ2jY
Unfortunately, this doesn't really show us much.

Considering the neighborhood, I thought there would be some surveillance cam footage somewhere.
Wouldn't be surprised if more surfaces....

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Originally Posted by mrhan View Post

Yes, there is according to Walter Röhrl. He is a member of the design team and one of the fastest drivers around.

"Even with the ASC traction control active, the Carrera GT has a relatively lively rear end. Since there's no stability control-Porsche's PSM system is absent here-a degree of sudden sideways motion is liable to turn one's remaining hair a slightly lighter shade of gray. Rohrl says, "It's fun with a safety net, because the slide is always induced by g-force, not throttle-controlled wheelspin."

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0312_porsche_carrera_gt/viewall.html

During the development of the Carrera GT, famed Porsche tester and man with gigantic brass attachments Walter Rohrl told Australian website Drive that he was actually scared of the car and wanted them to fit traction control because of the unpredictable behavior at the limit.

http://jalopnik.com/the-leno-clip-is-nuts-hard-to-tell-from-that-perspecti-1475096159/@Plays-With-Cars
If Rohrl considered it to be potentially lethal at the limit, that's all one needs to know.
Like I said before, only a fool jumps into a car like this without fully appreciating or respecting what it's capable of.

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post #44 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 03:13 PM
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What I don't understand, more than it's a really cool car, is why they used a Carrera GT for "showing off" in a non-track setting ?
I mean even good drivers don't have an easy time with it, e.g. Top Gear's "The Stig" spun with it during their review on their track.

I don't say that the stunt driver couldn't drive.
I bet he was a very good driver but even the best can make misstakes and if it's a car that is difficult to handle it won't save you from your misstakes.
Not sure if it was a driver misstake but maybe a bit more thought should have been made before going fast with obstacles close by in a car that is known for being difficult to drive.

Another example that "shouldn't" be used this way are the Koenigsegg cars, as seen by that driver that went into the audience in Poland and injured 17 people (full throttle from more or less standing still).
Koenigsegg have even asked/told a owner that refused to take driving lessons (provided by Koenigsegg's test driver) to sell the car, since he drove it like an idiot and crashed twice smile.gif

Really sad though that they didn't make it. RIP.

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post #45 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 03:52 PM
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What I don't understand, more than it's a really cool car, is why they used a Carrera GT for "showing off" in a non-track setting ?

"A motorsport professional who attended the charity car show in Valencia says Roger Rodas and Walker wanted to see why the Porsche Carrera GT was stalling, not go on a joyride: "It was more like, 'What the hell is wrong with this car?' "

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/paul-walkers-death-something-was-661367

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post #46 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 04:09 PM
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There are rumors now swirling that something was actually wrong with the car and there was a fluid trail before the car hit anything.

Evidently a super-car capable shop had just worked on that car and had posted images on the net, those images were removed after the accident (why?).

One video also shows a car right behind them that pulls over instantly after the impact and the driver gets out and runs over to the crash. Yet it is claimed the vehicle was alone(?).



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Originally Posted by oink View Post

This discussion is about the death of a famous actor who died in car crash involving a supercar and excess speed.
Sharing info concerning personal knowledge and experience of the elements involved in his death with other posters is NOT off-topic.

But that is not what the two of you were discussing, it was more of a 'what car do you own and what car I am thinking about buying' derail that had zero to do with what happened.

I did not report it either but glad to see it removed, it was in bad taste (especially considering this had just happened).

I did not mean to come off pissy with my initial reaction but I really liked the guy, his movies and am still honestly upset about it, sorry. redface.gif


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post #47 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 05:46 PM
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But that is not what the two of you were discussing, it was more of a 'what car do you own and what car I am thinking about buying' derail that had zero to do with what happened.

I did not report it either but glad to see it removed, it was in bad taste (especially considering this had just happened).


It's not in bad taste to discuss what we we're discussing. It's probably the subject Walker himself talks about every day. He was a car nut and I'm sure if he was around he would have responded to our posts since it was a car he himself has intimate knowledge of. His friends and family are probably talking about cars and Walker at this very moment. Is that in bad taste, too? Your making something out of nothing which is something that is actually in bad taste.
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post #48 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

"A motorsport professional who attended the charity car show in Valencia says Roger Rodas and Walker wanted to see why the Porsche Carrera GT was stalling, not go on a joyride: "It was more like, 'What the hell is wrong with this car?' "

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/paul-walkers-death-something-was-661367

Let's say they were driving the car; checking for a malfunction. It still doesn't add up. The question is still----how fast where they going before the car malfunctioned. If they were going at a reasonable pace they could have reacted in time to a fire, loss of steering, brakes going out, etc.
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post #49 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mrhan View Post

Let's say they were driving the car; checking for a malfunction. It still doesn't add up. The question is still----how fast where they going before the car malfunctioned. If they were going at a reasonable pace they could have reacted in time to a fire, loss of steering, brakes going out, etc.

Without a doubt yes. I was just responding to the idea of them "showing off" with the car - right now we still don't know what happened exactly and there's no indication that they were "showing off". The surveillance video show two moments, the impact (most likely) and something that looks like an explosion seconds later. Yes they were going fast but a car doesn't just blow up after hitting a tree right? How and why did that happen?

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post #50 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 06:38 PM
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Without a doubt yes. I was just responding to the idea of them "showing off" with the car - right now we still don't know what happened exactly and there's no indication that they were "showing off". The surveillance video show two moments, the impact (most likely) and something that looks like an explosion seconds later. Yes they were going fast but a car doesn't just blow up after hitting a tree right? How and why did that happen?

That is something else that I'm sure will come out eventually. Didn't they also state that there were no brake marks on the road? I can't recall where I read that bit of info. but they can indicate initial speed with the brake marks if they were present before the crash. There should also be "yaw" marks if the car did skid; which can also determine speed. I haven't found any information on that, either.
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post #51 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

Without a doubt yes. I was just responding to the idea of them "showing off" with the car - right now we still don't know what happened exactly and there's no indication that they were "showing off". The surveillance video show two moments, the impact (most likely) and something that looks like an explosion seconds later. Yes they were going fast but a car doesn't just blow up after hitting a tree right? How and why did that happen?

It's likely a gas line was severed (which is right by the passenger seat) or the engine impacted the gas tank (which is right behind the seats).

I am guessing none of that matters however since it is most likely that they were both instantly killed upon impact (be it the pole or the tree).

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post #53 of 99 Old 12-03-2013, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik View Post

What I don't understand, more than it's a really cool car, is why they used a Carrera GT for "showing off" in a non-track setting ?
I mean even good drivers don't have an easy time with it, e.g. Top Gear's "The Stig" spun with it during their review on their track.

I don't say that the stunt driver couldn't drive.
I bet he was a very good driver but even the best can make misstakes and if it's a car that is difficult to handle it won't save you from your misstakes.
Not sure if it was a driver misstake but maybe a bit more thought should have been made before going fast with obstacles close by in a car that is known for being difficult to drive.
We just don't know what happened yet.
One thing is certain: the car had a high-speed front impact that was so severe the passengers could not escape (in spite of airbags).

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Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

There are rumors now swirling that something was actually wrong with the car and there was a fluid trail before the car hit anything.

Evidently a super-car capable shop had just worked on that car and had posted images on the net, those images were removed after the accident (why?).

One video also shows a car right behind them that pulls over instantly after the impact and the driver gets out and runs over to the crash. Yet it is claimed the vehicle was alone(?).
Interesting avenues for investigation.....

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But that is not what the two of you were discussing, it was more of a 'what car do you own and what car I am thinking about buying' derail that had zero to do with what happened.
So what?
A few slightly OT posts?
I hope you are just kidding here...

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I did not report it either but glad to see it removed, it was in bad taste (especially considering this had just happened).
BAD TASTE?!?rolleyes.gif

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I did not mean to come off pissy with my initial reaction but I really liked the guy, his movies and am still honestly upset about it, sorry. redface.gif
May I suggest you go to Paul Walker's Facebook page and express your feelings there?
I am sure there are many there who feel the same way you do.wink.gif

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Originally Posted by mrhan View Post

Let's say they were driving the car; checking for a malfunction. It still doesn't add up. The question is still----how fast where they going before the car malfunctioned. If they were going at a reasonable pace they could have reacted in time to a fire, loss of steering, brakes going out, etc.
In spite of the difficulties of driving this car on the limits, I am afraid, after the dust eventually settles, we are going to find out the main reason for this crash was "Driver Error."

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post #54 of 99 Old 12-04-2013, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

"A motorsport professional who attended the charity car show in Valencia says Roger Rodas and Walker wanted to see why the Porsche Carrera GT was stalling, not go on a joyride: "It was more like, 'What the hell is wrong with this car?' "

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/paul-walkers-death-something-was-661367

I don't know much about the details surrounding the crash but that makes even less sense to me.
Meaning, driving a car that is known to be difficult. with a problem on top of that. and doing so in whatever speed is needed to destroy the whole car against a tree.
Sure they probably didn't think it would be a major problem and then it escalated to catastrophy.

Anyway, I guess we will see after the investigation what happened.

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post #55 of 99 Old 12-04-2013, 07:25 AM
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Some clarity:

http://guardianlv.com/2013/12/paul-walker-death-theories-and-questions/

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post #56 of 99 Old 12-04-2013, 08:16 AM
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"One witness Jim Torp, who is a race car enthusiast, said that as the car was approaching the event he could hear a “distant” blast just before the car crashed and exploded into flames. Torp theorised that the car could have had a blow out at speed and that this could have been responsible for the accident. So far Torp is the only witness who has come forward with this information. No one else has reported hearing any “blasts” or explosive sounds prior to the car crashing."

How would he know this? Does he know for a fact that the O.E. tires were replaced? Because the Carrera originally came equipped with Run Flat Micheline PS2s. They won't blow out or lose their sidewall integrity under 50 mph. Anything above that speed is another story. I know you know this because you had run flats. The only way to know if they are flat is by the TPMS. You can't tell by just giving the tire a quick glance because the sidewall isn't going to collapse while standing still. I know the wheels were replaced but from the pics they still look like the stock wheels but in black. Were the tires replaced with standard tires? Which takes us back to speed and driver error as probably a deciding factor in this accident.

"For all the sadness and curiosity raised by his death, at this stage, it seems the world may never know what really happened that Saturday afternoon on a Valencia, California road."

That's nonsense. If all the parts were collected and the scene was closed off quickly I'm sure forensic experts can determine without a doubt how this accident occurred. If experts can determine how a plane crashed; how can this be more difficult?
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post #57 of 99 Old 12-04-2013, 11:13 AM
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Speaking from experience...CART (Crash Analysis Reconstruction Team) will be investigating. It is policy in all law enforcement agencies to investigate fatal crashes and determine cause. A lot of times this process takes weeks to release the info because they want to be 100% accurate from top-to-bottom with their information. The answers are there it will just take some time. Now...whether they choose to make that information public is another story.

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post #58 of 99 Old 12-04-2013, 05:19 PM
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I just read that the posted speed limit was 45 MPH. Los Angeles County Sheriff detective Jeff Maag says the driver was going at least twice that, so we're talking +90MPH.
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post #59 of 99 Old 12-05-2013, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhan View Post

"One witness Jim Torp, who is a race car enthusiast, said that as the car was approaching the event he could hear a “distant” blast just before the car crashed and exploded into flames. Torp theorised that the car could have had a blow out at speed and that this could have been responsible for the accident. So far Torp is the only witness who has come forward with this information. No one else has reported hearing any “blasts” or explosive sounds prior to the car crashing."
I have read other things "Jim Torp" reportedly said.
IMO, not a good source.

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How would he know this?
He doesn't....it's called "pulling things out of one's behind."

Quote:
Does he know for a fact that the O.E. tires were replaced? Because the Carrera originally came equipped with Run Flat Micheline PS2s. They won't blow out or lose their sidewall integrity under 50 mph. Anything above that speed is another story. I know you know this because you had run flats. The only way to know if they are flat is by the TPMS. You can't tell by just giving the tire a quick glance because the sidewall isn't going to collapse while standing still. I know the wheels were replaced but from the pics they still look like the stock wheels but in black. Were the tires replaced with standard tires? Which takes us back to speed and driver error as probably a deciding factor in this accident.

"For all the sadness and curiosity raised by his death, at this stage, it seems the world may never know what really happened that Saturday afternoon on a Valencia, California road."

That's nonsense. If all the parts were collected and the scene was closed off quickly I'm sure forensic experts can determine without a doubt how this accident occurred. If experts can determine how a plane crashed; how can this be more difficult?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdog35 View Post

Speaking from experience...CART (Crash Analysis Reconstruction Team) will be investigating. It is policy in all law enforcement agencies to investigate fatal crashes and determine cause. A lot of times this process takes weeks to release the info because they want to be 100% accurate from top-to-bottom with their information. The answers are there it will just take some time. Now...whether they choose to make that information public is another story.
I'm sure we will eventually get a good explanation....providing the remains of the car aren't dust now.

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I just read that the posted speed limit was 45 MPH. Los Angeles County Sheriff detective Jeff Maag says the driver was going at least twice that, so we're talking +90MPH.
Looking at the damage to the car, it wouldn't be surprising.

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post #60 of 99 Old 12-05-2013, 01:31 PM
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This adds some important details:

Los Angeles (CNN) -- "Fast & Furious" star Paul Walker may have initially survived a horrific car crash but died moments later of a combination of injuries from the impact and the resulting fire, according to a coroner's report.

The one-page preliminary report released by the Los Angeles County coroner's office Wednesday listed the cause of the actor's death as the "combined effects of traumatic and thermal injuries."

An autopsy concluded that Roger Rodas, who was driving the red Porsche Carrera GT, suffered "multiple traumatic injuries," but it was not clear in the report if he was still alive when the car burst into flames soon after the wreck.

Since two different doctors did the separate autopsies, the difference in the description of their injuries does not mean the deaths were significantly different, Los Angeles County Assistant Chief Coroner Ed Winter told CNN.

It is not known how long each man lived after the crash as the fire began, Winter said. That information may be included when full autopsy reports are released in several weeks, he said.

The coroner confirmed what many witnesses told investigators: Rodas was the driver in the crash; Walker was the passenger of the high-performance Porsche that clipped a light pole and a tree before erupting in flames on a Southern California street Saturday afternoon.

The deaths were officially ruled an accident by the coroner.

A toxicology report, which could show if drugs or alcohol played a role in the accident, will be available in six to eight weeks, the report said.

Video obtained by CNN from a security camera posted on a building on the opposite side of the street from the crash suggests that the fire that engulfed the Porsche did not erupt until about a minute after the car crashed.

In the video, which does not show the car, black smoke is seen rising from the crash scene 60 seconds after the light pole and a tree fall. Smoke is faintly visible above the scene after one minute, followed by a heavy plume of black smoke after two minutes.

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