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post #91 of 226 Old 01-22-2014, 10:21 PM
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toe, morph, gwsat, tack, and will are all right


zoey and oink are both wrong

And tick is just an assh***

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post #92 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

No but it helps understanding them. That's a start.
Agreed.

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But the SLP characters aren't "monsters", they are just heavily wounded and flawed people who are trying to be better persons.
Would you prefer a more succinct noun...like a$$holes?

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They find out that the only thing missing to sort of balance their life is the feeling of loving and being loved by someone.
Look, everyone thinks that....
BUT not everyone who doesn't have it on demand becomes a human buzzkill.
This is where narcissism comes in.wink.gif

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That very feeling is more rare than it seems.
Huh?
All those stupid people are falling in love and getting married for the wrong reasons?

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Originally Posted by Will2007 View Post

Understanding /= excusing (or condoning).

Also, no human being is a monster, no matter how terrible his or her deeds. That's kind of the whole point of understanding the term "the banality of evil." It is human beings, not monsters, who commit atrocities.
I hope you realize that I REALIZE there is no such thing as "monsters," right?

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Forgetting that simple fact leads to all kinds of misunderstandings about human behavior and poor public policies and legal remedies.

I should know. It's an occupational hazard to encounter lots of persons -- human beings all of them -- who commit horrible misdeeds, what nearly all of us, including me, would consider evil.
When I get to hell, I'll pass on your sentiments to Hitler.tongue.gif

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post #93 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 12:50 AM
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At this point, I'm invoking Sumai. The greatest game that ever was or will be.

Sixteen ounce beer. First one done gets control of the thread for three days. All decisions final.
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post #94 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Tack View Post

At this point, I'm invoking Sumai. The greatest game that ever was or will be.

Sixteen ounce beer. First one done gets control of the thread for three days. All decisions final.
Never heard of Sumai, but I like the rules.
However, it's too late for me to play this evening.wink.gif

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post #95 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

Never heard of Sumai, but I like the rules.

Beats the hell out of Bangkok Rules.

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Originally Posted by oink View Post

However, it's too late for me to play this evening.wink.gif

We will ride another day, Muchacho.
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post #96 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Tack View Post

At this point, I'm invoking Sumai. The greatest game that ever was or will be.

Sixteen ounce beer. First one done gets control of the thread for three days. All decisions final.

Ha. Sixteen ounce beer.

Real men can do a yard of beer in one big swig.




Last time I did one was here:

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post #97 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

Would you prefer a more succinct noun...like a$$holes?
and who hasn't been one at some point?
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Huh?
All those stupid people are falling in love and getting married for the wrong reasons?
Being married doesn't always mean being in love...

…I'm not trying to magically change your opinion about the film wink.gif, but I like characters who find a way to redeem themselves, or to "right their wrongs" so to speak. And there's a bit of that too in American Hustle smile.gif
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post #98 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 05:37 AM
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The magic of SLP was lost on me because of sanity. I can understand why so many liked it though. I love movies about people like me too. Valhalla Rising, The Last Starfighter, Braveheart, and Krull for example.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I have a bipolar brother and am fully aware of the struggle placed on families.
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post #99 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Will2007 View Post


Real men can do a yard of beer in one big swig.

Last time I did one was here:


America’s 100 Best Beer Bars 2014

I have to checkout Beer Run.
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post #100 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 08:39 AM
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Regarding the nature vs. nurture argument raging on this thread, I think, like brother oink, some people are just born a$$holes. Their parents set a good example and try to raise them right. Their environment is nurturing and supportive. They want for nothing. Yet they just go bad. They know better, they just like bad better.

Then there are the folks who drew the short straw when it comes to brain chemistry. Or they have a short circuit somewhere in their frontal cortex that prevents them from properly evaluating their behavior, or they're uncontrollably impulsive. They're just not right and it not's their fault. And it influences their behavior in a negative fashion.

Then there are people who don't know any better. Not too bright. Similar to the people who have neurological problems, but drugs and therapy can often help those people. If you're just plain stupid, you may not be able to be trained properly. My wife probably thinks she lives with one of those guys. tongue.gif

In short, there's a lot of roads to jerkdom.

But I think society can shape behavior, reduce the jerk population, if it's contructed in a way that honors honor. Good behavior is recognized and excepted. I always think of pre-war Japan as that way. There probably wasn't much crime and bad behavior because it just wasn't tolerated, and certainly not celebrated. Everybody lived by a rigidly taught and enforced code of honor. Breaking the rules was punished harshly. Human beings have evolved to need both carrot and stick unfortunately.
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post #101 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Regarding the nature vs. nurture argument raging on this thread, I think, like brother oink, some people are just born a$$holes. Their parents set a good example and try to raise them right. Their environment is nurturing and supportive. They want for nothing. Yet they just go bad. They know better, they just like bad better.

Then there are the folks who drew the short straw when it comes to brain chemistry. Or they have a short circuit somewhere in their frontal cortex that prevents them from properly evaluating their behavior, or they're uncontrollably impulsive. They're just not right and it not's their fault. And it influences their behavior in a negative fashion.

Then there are people who don't know any better. Not too bright. Similar to the people who have neurological problems, but drugs and therapy can often help those people. If you're just plain stupid, you may not be able to be trained properly. My wife probably thinks she lives with one of those guys. tongue.gif

In short, there's a lot of roads to jerkdom.

But I think society can shape behavior, reduce the jerk population, if it's contructed in a way that honors honor. Good behavior is recognized and excepted. I always think of pre-war Japan as that way. There probably wasn't much crime and bad behavior because it just wasn't tolerated, and certainly not celebrated. Breaking the rules was punished harshly. Human beings have evolved to need both carrot and stick.

I would support this. A big shining bullet point is when the news media heaps praise on some dude for just being a decent person and then portrays it as extraordinary and out of the norm. A popular example was during hurricane Sandy and a guy left a power strip hanging over fence for people to charge phones and what not. Actions of that nature should be the norm and not extraordinary at all. So we've setup a model where good behavior is not expected and treated as alien.
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post #102 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by darthrsg View Post

I would support this. A big shining bullet point is when the news media heaps praise on some dude for just being a decent person and then portrays it as extraordinary and out of the norm. A popular example was during hurricane Sandy and a guy left a power strip hanging over fence for people to charge phones and what not. Actions of that nature should be the norm and not extraordinary at all. So we've setup a model where good behavior is not expected and treated as alien.

True dat. Whenever a business owner does the right thing by his employees, pays them a decent wage, avoids layoffs during downtimes, rejects offshoring, and sometimes takes a financial hit for doing so, he's treated like a hero by the media. But in some circles he's ridiculed and even vilified as someone who just doesn't understand how real capitalism is supposed to work. Or a stupid, sentimental sap, even worse.

I have a buddy who owns a lunchtime restaurant downtown, semi-fast-food. His philosophy was to pay his employees not just minimum wage but a living wage, give them insurance, a good retirement account and generous & frequent bonuses, raises, vacations, etc. Policies that are not commonplace among workers in that industry. As a result, he's got an incredibly loyal staff. He's helped them get citizenship and buy houses. Consequently, they show up every day and they work hard. Once he found the crew that he liked, he's had virtually no turnover. Thus, no ongoing staffing and re-training problems and those associated costs which can be considerable. All from doing the right thing but maybe not the most profitable thing. You know what he told me when he started the business? "I don't need to make all the money in the world." Imagine that.

I've told him he needs to write a book. Everybody else has. tongue.gif
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post #103 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

America’s 100 Best Beer Bars 2014

I have to checkout Beer Run.

Haven't been to that one. At the time, the Hardware Store was still open (25+ years ago) and served 100s of beers from all over the world. Ordering a yard and downing it with one twirl of the glass was a rite of passage at that place.

My city has a bar listed on that link, but I don't drink anymore.
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post #104 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 10:19 AM
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Ha. Sixteen ounce beer.

Real men can do a yard of beer in one big swig.

[/IMG]

Well there was the best of twenty one rider. wink.gif
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post #105 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Tack View Post

Well there was the best of twenty one rider. wink.gif

Well that changes everything.

To continue this derail, there was this thing at my uni called the "1000 Beer Club." We had a short spring semester of 6 weeks, and you typically took only 1 or 2 courses during it. To join the club, you had to consume 1000 12 oz. beers in that six weeks (it's about a case a day). I had 4 friends who took and completed the challenge our senior year. I declined, as I had to stay in shape because the army was calling in June. Also, I didn't want to start drinking at 7 a.m. and stay drunk for six weeks continuously.
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post #106 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Tack View Post

Beats the hell out of Bangkok Rules
Classic.biggrin.gif

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We will ride another day, Muchacho.
We will.smile.gif

If you ever make it out to my neck of the woods, lemme know....I'll buy the first pint.

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Originally Posted by Will2007 View Post

Real men can do a yard of beer in one big swig.


Kinda reminds me of those wildly colored plastic things you can buy in a lot of places along The Strip.


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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

and who hasn't been one at some point?
It's a question of degree.

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Being married doesn't always mean being in love...
I was referring more to "getting married" than "being married."wink.gif

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I like characters who find a way to redeem themselves, or to "right their wrongs" so to speak.
I do too....honestly.

The problem I had is the guy refuses to take his medication.
Medication prescribed by a shrink.
He REFUSES because he knows better.
HE knows how to cure his illness, not some quack mental health expert.rolleyes.gif
This is what I would call narcissism, ego-mania, self-absorption, arrogance.

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Originally Posted by darthrsg View Post

I love movies about people like me too. Valhalla Rising, The Last Starfighter, Braveheart, and Krull for example.
You never fail to deliver.biggrin.gif

Quote:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I have a bipolar brother and am fully aware of the struggle placed on families.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
It runs in my family too and have seen it up close and personal.

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post #107 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

America’s 100 Best Beer Bars 2014

I have to checkout Beer Run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will2007 View Post

Haven't been to that one. At the time, the Hardware Store was still open (25+ years ago) and served 100s of beers from all over the world. Ordering a yard and downing it with one twirl of the glass was a rite of passage at that place.

My city has a bar listed on that link, but I don't drink anymore.

I was surprised that one of the Best 100 Beer Bars on the list is in OKC, TapWerks Ale House. Not surprisingly, it is located in trendy Bricktown. OKC can't hold a candle to Austin when it comes to trendiness but Bricktown really is pretty slick, as is the TapWerks Web site. Alas, Tulsa didn't show up on the list. If I sound like an OKC Chamber of Commerce commercial, it's because I had lived there all my live until 5 moths ago. Tulsa is a great town too but we don't have a beer bar to match the TapWerks so far as I know.
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post #108 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Regarding the nature vs. nurture argument raging on this thread, I think, like brother oink, some people are just born a$$holes. Their parents set a good example and try to raise them right. Their environment is nurturing and supportive. They want for nothing. Yet they just go bad. They know better, they just like bad better.

Then there are the folks who drew the short straw when it comes to brain chemistry. Or they have a short circuit somewhere in their frontal cortex that prevents them from properly evaluating their behavior, or they're uncontrollably impulsive. They're just not right and it not's their fault. And it influences their behavior in a negative fashion.
There IS medication that can help people in these 2 categories.

Quote:
Then there are people who don't know any better. Not too bright. Similar to the people who have neurological problems, but drugs and therapy can often help those people.
Yes....sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll works wonders.

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If you're just plain stupid, you may not be able to be trained properly. My wife probably thinks she lives with one of those guys. tongue.gif
Has it occurred to you the reason why she thinks so is because she is?tongue.gif

Quote:
But I think society can shape behavior, reduce the jerk population, if it's contructed in a way that honors honor. Good behavior is recognized and excepted.
I do too.
The real problem is in the HOW.

In this country, the atmosphere is too divisive.
It would take a national calamity (again) to unite the people.

Quote:
I always think of pre-war Japan as that way. There probably wasn't much crime and bad behavior because it just wasn't tolerated, and certainly not celebrated. Everybody lived by a rigidly taught and enforced code of honor. Breaking the rules was punished harshly.
This might explain some of the reasons why we had the Pacific War.

Quote:
Human beings have evolved to need both carrot and stick unfortunately.
I think that probably has always been the case; we call it "free will."

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Originally Posted by darthrsg View Post

I would support this. A big shining bullet point is when the news media heaps praise on some dude for just being a decent person and then portrays it as extraordinary and out of the norm. A popular example was during hurricane Sandy and a guy left a power strip hanging over fence for people to charge phones and what not. Actions of that nature should be the norm and not extraordinary at all. So we've setup a model where good behavior is not expected and treated as alien.
Well said.

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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

True dat. Whenever a business owner does the right thing by his employees, pays them a decent wage, avoids layoffs during downtimes, rejects offshoring, and sometimes takes a financial hit for doing so, he's treated like a hero by the media. But in some circles he's ridiculed and even vilified as someone who just doesn't understand how real capitalism is supposed to work. Or a stupid, sentimental sap, even worse.

I have a buddy who owns a lunchtime restaurant downtown, semi-fast-food. His philosophy was to pay his employees not just minimum wage but a living wage, give them insurance, a good retirement account and generous & frequent bonuses, raises, vacations, etc. Policies that are not commonplace among workers in that industry. As a result, he's got an incredibly loyal staff. He's helped them get citizenship and buy houses. Consequently, they show up every day and they work hard. Once he found the crew that he liked, he's had virtually no turnover. Thus, no ongoing staffing and re-training problems and those associated costs which can be considerable. All from doing the right thing but maybe not the most profitable thing. You know what he told me when he started the business? "I don't need to make all the money in the world." Imagine that.

I've told him he needs to write a book. Everybody else has. tongue.gif
THAT's an uplifting story.cool.gif

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post #109 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 02:11 PM
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Some might argue some of the medication is a problem. A NP friend of mine says you would be very surprised how many are on it and out of their gourd and on it to get disability. It always reminds me of a book I read where the supply got cut and within a few weeks things got rough in more than one way.
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post #110 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 02:20 PM
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This might explain some of the reasons why we had the Pacific War.

It well might. Misguided, power-mad leaders exploited a population that respected authority and had a profound sense of duty. If they had been benevolent instead of militant, who knows how things might have unfolded in the far east? Or Europe, for that matter as the same could be said of the Germans, to an extent.
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Originally Posted by oink 
THAT's an uplifting story.cool.gif

Just another silly, bleeding heart liberal who hates freedom and "doesn't get it". Yet he's happy with his life, has a great family to whom he's also taught those values, and his customers and employees adore him. Doncha' hate those guys? They're going to destroy this country. biggrin.gifwink.gif
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post #111 of 226 Old 01-23-2014, 04:45 PM
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I was surprised that one of the Best 100 Beer Bars on the list is in OKC, TapWerks Ale House.
Have you been?

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Tulsa is a great town too but we don't have a beer bar to match the TapWerks so far as I know.
Well, there is only one way to find out....wink.gif

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Originally Posted by darthrsg View Post

Some might argue some of the medication is a problem. A NP friend of mine says you would be very surprised how many are on it and out of their gourd and on it to get disability.
Most mental illness can be treated with medication, allowing folks to lead a functional life.
It often takes time (and error) to find the right drug(s) that will work for a particular patient.
After all, no 2 human brains are alike.

Also, it is a question of how severe the disease is...sometimes there is no "magic pill."

As far as disability goes, it probably depends on the condition.
If someone has, for example, schizophrenia, I think you could make a legitimate case they cannot function normally in society.
However, that's a fairly rare illness.

What is much more common is what was once called Manic Depression and is now known as Bipolarism.
There is medication that can allow these people to function perfectly normal.
I doubt very much disability is handed out, except possibly for the most EXTREME cases.

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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

. Doncha' hate those guys? They're going to destroy this country. biggrin.gifwink.gif
"THEY" already HAVE!!!biggrin.gif

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post #112 of 226 Old 01-26-2014, 08:29 AM
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post #113 of 226 Old 03-19-2014, 11:23 AM
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NF copy arrived yesterday and fired it up last night.

This is a very uniquely constructed, character-driven movie...I can't recall one exactly like it.

It starts very slowly....almost daring me to "oink-it."
At 45 minutes, I was hooked and had to find out where it was all going.

I can see why so many acting accolades were heaped on it....especially good are Adams, Cooper, Jenny, and DeNiro in a cameo.

I have to give DoR credit for getting great performances out of his players.

FWIW, it does feel like a long movie.

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post #114 of 226 Old 03-19-2014, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

This is a very uniquely constructed, character-driven movie...I can't recall one exactly like it.

You mean other than Boogie Nights, The Sting, and the dozen or so Scorsese movies that it shamelessly apes?

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You mean other than Boogie Nights, The Sting, and the dozen or so Scorsese movies that it shamelessly apes?
OK, maybe I should re-phrase that: any RECENT movies I can recall.

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post #116 of 226 Old 03-19-2014, 03:35 PM
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I saw this movie a few days ago, my little impressions:

American Hustle (2013)

A fiction told in flamboyant scenic style (highly influenced by Scorcese) based on real events. I do appreciate this narrative style but the acting and direction didn't keep up with the aspirations of this work in my opinion. I liked Jennifer Lawrence and always enjoy seeing Robert De Niro playing a badass Gangster, most other characters lacked some authenticity and the dialogues could had been more accomplished (felt like some actors/actresses weren't at ease with the reportedly improvised acting). I couldn't help but notice some rhythmical incoherence or inconsistence thoughout this movie, it didn't flow or dance as smoothly as I'd like (and as it was trying to?) mostly due to lack of insight in the editing department and in the way how the narrative is conveyed in tone. American Hustle deserved more technical commitment and clairvoyance from the direction, I think the screenplay is perfect to be explored by this cinematic style. A bit more competence and a modern classic should had been born... for the better or for the worse. I enjoy it as pure entertainment, great soundtrack, exciting and comical moments to be lived... but a few fails as well...
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post #117 of 226 Old 03-19-2014, 03:59 PM
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NF copy arrived yesterday and fired it up last night.

This is a very uniquely constructed, character-driven movie...I can't recall one exactly like it.

It starts very slowly....almost daring me to "oink-it."
At 45 minutes, I was hooked and had to find out where it was all going.

I can see why so many acting accolades were heaped on it....especially good are Adams, Cooper, Jenny, and DeNiro in a cameo.

I have to give DoR credit for getting great performances out of his players.

FWIW, it does feel like a long movie.

Don't know what it is about Russell's stuff, but even the first time I saw American Hustle, I hung on every frame. Repeat viewings were even more rewarding because I could see and really enjoy how the scam was being setup and the fascinating dynamic of the "love" triangle between the two primo con artists and the too ambitious and horny but not quite smart enough FBI agent. The FBI guy, Richie, learned what it's like to be conned by a girl like Sydney who is skilled enough to live the con "from the feet up." The first 45 minutes were dangerous because anything less that strict attention to the treacheries that were being setup could lead to boredom. Like so many other intricate and long films, think Tarantino's Jackie Brown, the film is in some ways too smart for its own good.

I agree with your admiration of Russell's ability to bring out the best in his actors. That's why I have been so pleased to see that he has been able to attract the remarkably talented quartet of Bale, Cooper, Adams, and Lawrence into accepting roles in multiple films.
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post #118 of 226 Old 03-19-2014, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

I saw this movie a few days ago, my little impressions:

American Hustle (2013)

A fiction told in flamboyant scenic style (highly influenced by Scorcese) based on real events. I do appreciate this narrative style but the acting and direction didn't keep up with the aspirations of this work in my opinion. I liked Jennifer Lawrence and always enjoy seeing Robert De Niro playing a badass Gangster, most other characters lacked some authenticity and the dialogues could had been more accomplished (felt like some actors/actresses weren't at ease with the reportedly improvised acting). I couldn't help but notice some rhythmical incoherence or inconsistence thoughout this movie, it didn't flow or dance as smoothly as I'd like (and as it was trying to?) mostly due to lack of insight in the editing department and in the way how the narrative is conveyed in tone. American Hustle deserved more technical commitment and clairvoyance from the direction, I think the screenplay is perfect to be explored by this cinematic style. A bit more competence and a modern classic should had been born... for the better or for the worse. I enjoy it as pure entertainment, great soundtrack, exciting and comical moments to be lived... but a few fails as well...
Agree about the "inconsistency and editing issues."

More than anything else, this film was an opportunity for very good actors to masturbate on celluloid.
In fact, it wouldn't be far-off to call it Oscar Bait.

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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Tarantino's Jackie Brown, the film is in some ways too smart for its own good.
FWIW, I think JB is way easier to follow.

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I agree with your admiration of Russell's ability to bring out the best in his actors. That's why I have been so pleased to see that he has been able to attract the remarkably talented quartet of Bale, Cooper, Adams, and Lawrence into accepting roles in multiple films.
This movie brings out what seems like the very best (at least from what I have seen) from these actors.
It's been awhile since I have seen so MANY excellent performances in one film.

Oh, and BTW, by the end credits, Ms. Adams had reduced me to a slobbering and embarrassing sack of protoplasm.....HOLY MOLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!tongue.gif

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post #119 of 226 Old 03-19-2014, 04:56 PM
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I agree with your admiration of Russell's ability to bring out the best in his actors. That's why I have been so pleased to see that he has been able to attract the remarkably talented quartet of Bale, Cooper, Adams, and Lawrence into accepting roles in multiple films.

Also I think it's Christian Bale's funniest role to date. In usually more serious characters, he had some pretty funny lines and "situations" in this film. A pleasure to watch all three of them indeed.
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post #120 of 226 Old 03-21-2014, 06:54 PM
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Really enjoyed watching this movie, Christian Bale makes a funny role for a change.
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