The Future Of Old TV Shows? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 01-25-2014, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Scott! 

 

Just listening to the newest Home Theater Geeks ep. 191 - with Jeremy Kipnis.

 

All this talk of very high end video and audio for the home made me think about the future of old tv re-runs.

 

I think, that in the very near future, tv reruns of monetary value, will be re-mastered using 3D texture mapped sets and re-mastered audio both dialogue and soundtrack.  

 

Think about, lets say - The Honeymooners.  I believe The Honeymooners is available only by kinescoped copies and on film that is now mostly destroyed or poorly maintained. Now imagine whole characters of Ralph, Ed, Alice and Trixie and sets of the Honeymooners digitally recreated and texture mapped down to such a level that we would not be able to tell the difference between reality and CG.  A software could scan in the shows and plot and map the characters where they should be and use the original audio as a guide for the lip sync of the mouth movements and the audio its self for recreation of the vocals, audience laughter and recreation of the orchestral instruments.  

 

The greater initial costs would be in developing the software and the characters likenesses, including accounting for realistic body movements and recreated voice inflection. Once those have been mastered, all the shows could be scanned in and old shows that were in crappy old kinescope, could now be rendered at what ever video ratio and bit level and even rendered in 3D video and audio and even include alternate shot angles. 

 

One other thought I had would be that using this technique, studios could potentially make new programs.

 

So, that's my futuristic thought. I foresee this being a mere say ten years away - or less. 

 

What are your thoughts? :)

 

Sincerely Doug 

 

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post #2 of 26 Old 01-25-2014, 12:49 PM
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I appreciate your thoughts on saving older shows (and movies). There are many great shows, episodes and the like that are just fading away into oblivion and beyond entertainment value, they are part of our great history of television and movies.
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post #3 of 26 Old 01-25-2014, 01:01 PM
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Are you sure this thread doesn't belong in this forum?
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post #4 of 26 Old 01-25-2014, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe. But I didn't want to bury it too deep. 


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post #5 of 26 Old 01-26-2014, 08:53 AM
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Great idea! Looking forward to when this comes to fruition.
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post #6 of 26 Old 01-27-2014, 11:33 AM
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So you want a beautifully CG re-rendered picture paired up with the old tinny, mono audio? No, they will also have to remaster the soundtrack using new vocal re-recordings from modern actors and reorchestrated 7.1 music stems.

Of course, this means that there will be no trace of the original program in this new Honeymooners 2.0.

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post #7 of 26 Old 02-22-2014, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Correct. Not a trace of the original material but a completely digitally remade synthetic product, that imitates the original and is better than when it was shot. I am thinking not lines read by actors, but using a "Vocaloid" synthetic technology. Example: In this video "Love Is War,"  All the video and vocals are synthetic. 

 

 


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post #8 of 26 Old 02-22-2014, 09:02 PM
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Yeah. And while they're at it they can remap some of the sexist and racist stuff to make it politically correct...wink.gif
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post #9 of 26 Old 02-22-2014, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Umm... let's hope not. I am not into historical revision.  But speaking of synthetic video, look at this!!! Amazing!

 

 

http://www.chrisj.com.au/

 

The genius who did this fantastic animation, also wrote and made the music!!! TALENT!!!! I sit humbled in my boxer shorts. 

 


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post #10 of 26 Old 02-23-2014, 04:18 AM
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Hmmm.. Who, exactly, would watch this new, enhanced, version of the Honeymooners?

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post #11 of 26 Old 02-23-2014, 07:44 AM
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Umm... let's hope not. I am not into historical revision.

So you're in favor of the spousal abuse of the Honeymooners? BANG, ZOOM! Maybe show Ralph slugging Alice with bullet time. wink.gif
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Hmmm.. Who, exactly, would watch this new, enhanced, version of the Honeymooners?

Yeah, it's hard to build audiences nowadays without some sort of celebrity name, relevant contemporary premise, or familiar property (and no, Honeymooners isn't familiar to the kids.) I could see it being a curiosity for a while, but not something sustained.

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post #12 of 26 Old 02-23-2014, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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DON'T PUT WORDS INTO MY MOUTH! I did NOT say I was in favor of ANYTHING other than maintaining the ORIGINAL CONTENT! STEP OFF!!

I will not stand for treatment of this kind. If you don't want me to post anything here I will gladly exit. 

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post #13 of 26 Old 02-23-2014, 09:15 AM
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So you're in favor of the spousal abuse of the Honeymooners? BANG, ZOOM! Maybe show Ralph slugging Alice with bullet time. wink.gif

Ralph did not slug Alice even once. In fact, I would argue that Ralph's "You wanna go to the moon" threats were empty threats, since we all know that Alice ruled the roost. You look at any scene where Ralph goes Bang! Zoom! and you won't see Alice flinch one iota. She stands her ground and sees Ralph's bluster for what it is...bluster.

Having said that, we all know that the Honeymooners was born of a different time period, and there are bound to be issues of political incorrectness, particularly with regards to this issue. No one in their right mind advocates spousal abuse. Not even Ralph Kramden.

Additionally, I should add that The Honeymooners is one of the few shows I can think of where every single episode is exceptional. There's not a single clunker in the whole set of 39 episodes.
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post #14 of 26 Old 02-23-2014, 11:20 AM
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DON'T PUT WORDS INTO MY MOUTH! I did NOT say I was in favor of ANYTHING other than maintaining the ORIGINAL CONTENT! STEP OFF!!
I will not stand for treatment of this kind. If you don't want me to post anything here I will gladly exit.
Tulpa, you are a special member alright! I think they should give you a six month time out.

Jesus, relax. It was just a joke. The wink smiley should have given that away.

Sounds like you need the time out. Chill.
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Ralph did not slug Alice even once. In fact, I would argue that Ralph's "You wanna go to the moon" threats were empty threats, since we all know that Alice ruled the roost. You look at any scene where Ralph goes Bang! Zoom! and you won't see Alice flinch one iota. She stands her ground and sees Ralph's bluster for what it is...bluster.

I know. But that's always the ongoing joke nowadays. And if a TV show today tried it the way the Honeymooners did, there would be outrage and controversy until it was pulled from the air.

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post #15 of 26 Old 02-23-2014, 12:07 PM
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And if a TV show today tried it the way the Honeymooners did, there would be outrage and controversy until it was pulled from the air.
Truth.

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post #16 of 26 Old 02-24-2014, 10:19 AM
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Correct. Not a trace of the original material but a completely digitally remade synthetic product, that imitates the original and is better than when it was shot.

In other words, you want a remake. Why don't you just say that you want a remake?

As a matter of fact, there already was a remake of The Hooneymooners. Enjoy.


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I did NOT say I was in favor of ANYTHING other than maintaining the ORIGINAL CONTENT!

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post #17 of 26 Old 02-24-2014, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Not interested in a remake. What is so hard to understand about my concept? I will have to assume very few people can understand what I am talking about. So, never mind. 


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post #18 of 26 Old 02-24-2014, 10:37 AM
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Shows like "The Honeymooners" are beloved because of the performances, not the fidelity.
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post #19 of 26 Old 02-24-2014, 12:51 PM
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Not interested in a remake. What is so hard to understand about my concept? I will have to assume very few people can understand what I am talking about. So, never mind. 

It's not that we can't understand your concept, we just can't understand the NEED for it.
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post #20 of 26 Old 02-24-2014, 12:58 PM
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It's not that we can't understand your concept, we just can't understand the NEED for it.

Yeah, we fully "get" the concept. It's just a very bad idea.

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post #21 of 26 Old 02-24-2014, 05:59 PM
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Yeah, we fully "get" the concept. It's just a very bad idea.
Yeah, just ask Captain Video!

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post #22 of 26 Old 03-02-2014, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, we fully "get" the concept. It's just a very bad idea.

Ok, just for fun. Tell me why saving classic TV shows and movies are a "Very bad idea." Go ahead. 

 

Re-editing Star Wars, so Han Solo doesn't shoot Greedo in cold blood, is a very bad idea. Editing E.T. So the guys in the woods no longer have guns but lollipops or er, walkie-talkies, was a very bad idea.  But how could it be that digitally remastering a classic show so in the 21st century it will be palatable to an age of 8K screen viewers? I am not in favor of colorizing or replacing props, making new special effects to replace the old or making any changes so it will be more politically correct. I am just suggesting that if we don't save these shows and or movies, society might forget about them. That's all. 


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post #23 of 26 Old 03-02-2014, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, we fully "get" the concept. It's just a very bad idea.

Ok, just for fun. Tell me why saving classic TV shows and movies are a "Very bad idea." Go ahead. 


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post #24 of 26 Old 03-03-2014, 09:05 AM
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Ok, just for fun. Tell me why saving classic TV shows and movies are a "Very bad idea." Go ahead. 

That's a loaded question. Saving classic TV shows are a great idea. As in "preserving". I have the Honeymooners Classic 39 DVD set. They are fine. When I watch them I imagine myself sitting in my living room with Ward, June and the Beav watching my spanking brand new Sylvania 15 inch TV watching Norton teach the Great One learn how to play golf.

I loved Yoda as a puppet. CGI Ninja Yoda was completely charmless in comparison.

1933 King Kong is one of the greatest action adventure movies ever made and Willis O'Brien's stop motion effects are wondrous. Peter Jackson's multimillion dollar CGI extravaganza for all it's realism and eye candy doesn't hold a candle to the original. All that money and computer technology did not make a better movie. FAR from it.

Frankly, I could care less about making these shows palatable to today's 8k generation. They wouldn't watch them anyway since they're in black and white and obviously shot on a stage with phony sets. And that fat guy is no Adam Sandler.
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post #25 of 26 Old 03-03-2014, 01:40 PM
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Ok, just for fun. Tell me why saving classic TV shows and movies are a "Very bad idea." Go ahead. 

What you're describing is not "saving" the show. It's totally remaking it by replacing everything that was in the original with an artificial, computerized facsimile that is in no way the same thing.

The statue of the Venus de Milo currently has no arms. It was not sculpted that way. Originally, it had arms. They fell off centuries ago. Should the Louvre take the Venus de Milo out of the gallery and put up a new rendition (with arms) sculpted out of clay? Would that make the Venus de Milo good as new? No, it would be a travesty. The original is what it is, in its current state. It is irreplaceable. What's left of it should be preserved as much as possible, but not replaced.

If you want a CGI remake of The Honeymooners, it should existentirely separate from the original. It cannot replace the original. Such a thing would not "restore" or "save" the original. Frankly, it would be an abomination.
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post #26 of 26 Old 03-04-2014, 08:18 AM
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Frankly, I could care less about making these shows palatable to today's 8k generation. They wouldn't watch them anyway since they're in black and white and obviously shot on a stage with phony sets. And that fat guy is no Adam Sandler.

Yeah, I don't see why you'd need to make it "look better" just because future TVs will make modern stuff look lifelike. People have been fine with watching old stuff despite the advances in video, through the advent of color, through larger screens and higher resolution. Those who care about older shows will watch them as is, and there are plenty of younger people who enjoy stuff from decades before they were born. Those who insist on only watching "modern" video probably wouldn't care for the show anyway, just on principle of being from another era.

The original Honeymooners went off the air in the mid-50s (I know Gleason revived it repeatedly, but the original 39 was a 50s show), and yet people still watch it. It's been archived digitally, and you can buy DVDs and soon blu-ray of it all day long, so it's in no danger of being lost.

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