OFFICIAL The Matrix: Reloaded review thread (be advised: SPOILERS inside) - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 430 Old 05-19-2003, 03:40 PM
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post #182 of 430 Old 05-19-2003, 03:52 PM
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I tend to agree with Bill and co :) :

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
5/15/03

Well... Matrix: Reloaded certainly didn't live up to the hype, at least for most of us here at The Bits. Todd, Matt, Frankie, Brad and I all went out last night to first showings, and most (but not all) of us were less than impressed. The effects have certainly been given a lot of attention - they're a lot more advanced. But that isn't necessarily a good thing. While everyone was working on animating all those Agent Smiths, someone forgot to work on the story a little. And not all the effects are realistic looking - there are a few fight scenes with entirely CG characters. The whole coolness of wire-fu is that it's real people doing these amazing stunts. And when it isn't anymore, it's hard to stifle a yawn. To be fair, there are plenty of cool little moments. But they really don't add up to much. Did we really need a 10-minute rave scene in Zion? I found myself almost wishing the machines would destroy the place. The film definitely doesn't match the original... at least for us anyway. Lower your expectations and you'll probably enjoy it. But don't expect to leave the theater with that same blown-away feeling you had from the first Matrix film.
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post #183 of 430 Old 05-19-2003, 05:06 PM
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It's foolish to think that you would have left the Theater feeling the same as the first time. Hell I could pick a Million things that were better the first time. It's Human Nature. We're perceptive to change.

A Drug Addict is constantly chasing that "Initial High" however nothing seems to live up to it..but hope keeps the addict going. I always laugh when people say "It wasn't as good as the first time" . Well......naturally. ;)
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post #184 of 430 Old 05-19-2003, 05:47 PM
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My wife and I saw this yesterday. There was a huge crowd and we had a very difficult time just to find 2 seats together.

The movie was very disappointing to both of us. We did not understand the story line and it just seemed more like a giant video game than anything else. I have always enjoyed science fiction, but just could not get past the unbelievability of most of the scenes. The realism just wasn't there for us. And my wife felt exactly as I did, so I guess we are just a little bit too old to appreciate something like this.

What irritates me more than anything else is the success of this show means we are obviously going to see a lot more of this kind of junk from Hollywood.

Bob
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post #185 of 430 Old 05-19-2003, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobertWood
Don't wait for the DVD. Here's the movie script. Study it and tell us what it all means.

http://www.angelfire.com/film/matrix2/archive/script1-6
Script for Matrix 3, please! :D


Seriously-- it's very interesting to see different people's opinions here. I loved it on the first viewing, and loved it even more on the second viewing. I definitely got my money's worth both times... and would happily give more money to the W-brothers for a third viewing. And I had high expectations of the movie. And yet others are really bummed out and disappointed.


Ok--- do people in the Matrix get pregnant?

- JP in TOronto
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post #186 of 430 Old 05-19-2003, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RVonse
My wife and I saw this yesterday. There was a huge crowd and we had a very difficult time just to find 2 seats together.
When watching X2 a few weeks ago, the similar situation happened to a guy who was very irritated at the masses of kiddies. He whips out a $10 bill and shouts out that the first person to give him 2 adjacent seats gets it. His seats magically appeared within moments.

- JP in TOronto
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post #187 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobertWood
Don't wait for the DVD. Here's the movie script. Study it and tell us what it all means.

http://www.angelfire.com/film/matrix2/archive/script1-6
42.


fuad

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post #188 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 04:28 AM
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My review is going to be very harsh. I am going to slam this film hard. Just be advised that my overall view of this film is a B. It is worth seeing. But boy oh boy is it flawed and those flaws need to be discussed.

I have had some time to reflect and think about MATRIX RELOADED and I am of the opinion that this film is similar to many inferior sequels, for a variety of reasons. Without getting long winded (edit, looking at this review, I did get very long winded), I will say that like HIGHLANDER 2, The MATRIX RELOADED has more money and visualistics than the original it has followed, but with less cohesion and inventiveness. It also has changed the rules on us, somewhat like the Planet Zeist thing that killed HIGHLANDER 2. By no means is RELOADED as bad as that dreaded sequel, but by no means is it a worthy follow-up to the original film.

RELOADED is much like BACK TO THE FUTURE 2, which was an overlong, unnecessary bridge to BACK TO THE FUTURE 3, where the story finally got moving. This storyline could have been told in 30 minutes, but instead we got strung along for 2 hours and 20 minutes, with a lot of sheer boredom on the way. The Zion scenes went on and on (as did the fights) and one Zion lecture in particular was a chore to watch (and I don’t mean the pathetic Rave sequence) and it was the fact that this scene was so pointless that I realized it was important in setting up the third film. This scene also confirmed my guessing the “surprise ending†to RELOADED and I am 98% sure I know exactly what will happen in REVOLUTIONS.

Like THE MUMMY RETURNS, The MATRIX RELOADED has a bigger budget and gobs more visual effects, but to its own detriment. This time, instead of 100% Keanu Reeves vs. 100% Hugo Weaving (or other actor/stunt-man), we have a large percentage of completely CGI fight sequences and they are so blatant, so in your face, that you are violently yanked out of the film, making it impossible for you to forget that you in a movie theater. The Burly Brawl is a case in point. After 2 minutes of sensational realcombat, Neo picks up a pole and turns into Neo-Binks, a fully CGI fighter, surrounded by fully CGI Agent Smith’s. BANG! The scene is destroyed. You are now watching a video game, ala some sequences from BLADE 2 (an inferior sequel if there ever was one). At no time did this opening night crowd applaud, cheer or gasp at the film. At no time did they get rowdy. They just sat there, dead in their seats. It’s the exact opposite of the reactions the first film got back in 1999.

The first MATRIX has, hands down, the most realistic visual effects of all time for a science fiction film. They are seamless and do not draw attention to themselves. You do not question that helicopter smashing into the skyscraper. You do not question Neo or anyone else defying gravity. It’s real. Period. And therefore you are never yanked out of the film. The Wachowski brothers have misjudged the importance of this, thinking audiences wants more and more vfx. We don’t, if those vfx are not real.

And what fun is a fight scene if the conclusion is pre-determined. Neo is the one and therefore cannot lose. Therefore, you cannot have any sense of danger. Therefore, you sit there, bored, wondering when he will just end it. Even the fights with Trinity and Morpheus vs. agents suffered, because at no time did I think they were outmatched. Agent Smith beating the tar out of Morpheus in the original was a kinetic, balls to the walls event. You feared for your hero and knew he was in deep ****. This time, I sensed none of that. Yes, the freeway chase was sensationally shot and edited, but who cares? It was fun, but I did not sense any danger.

Let’s move onto the music score, which is easily one of the most disappointing aspects of the film. Don Davis’ score for the original film is one of the best of the 1990’s. I have listened to it a thousand times. This time, however, he has utterly failed. It just doesn’t work. Why, I cannot really describe why. But I was not the only one from my party who thought this. And for the love of God, who decided to stick that heavy metal trash song over those ending credits at decibels that would shatter glass?! I have never seen so many people run for the doors with their hands over their ears. I kid you not. At least a third of the audience was covering their ears. That song will appeal to about 10% of this film’s audience. Meanwhile we all run for cover.

Last two points before I move on to spoilers. The editing in this film called attention to itself. The crossing between three different events that took place at three different times is an example (during the finale). It was confusing, drew attention to itself and sucked the life out of what looked to have been three good scenes. It didn’t add suspense. It just added confusion. As a matter of fact, I could hear people around me asking friends what was going on. That’s bad.

The opening sequence for this film, which features Trinity on the attack, utterly failed. It was a boring slow motion opera. All visual. No impact. Starting the film off with a confusing, almost entirely slow motion action sequence does not make the heart flutter. It is speed and adrenalin that accomplishes that and the first film proved it. My wife and I sat stone faced in the theater last week, not caring one bit about that opening scene. It was just 100% eye candy with no passion. What a shame.

OK, onto spoilers. Yes, SPOILERS. So don’t read on if you have not seen the film.

This Box within a Box thing is, quite frankly, annoying. It’s a slap in the face to everything we learned from the first film. Who could forget not being able to even breath as Neo woke up in that chamber, finding that he was a human battery? That was surprise. That was a revelation! That was really great filmmaking. And it is utterly betrayed with this Zion is part of the Matrix BS that so brings back memories of Highlander 2 and the “Alien explanation†that contradicted all that we learned before.

I knew the surprise for this film before I saw it last week. After reading a post from someone that compared the ending to how disappointing it was to find out Highlander 2 made the immortals aliens, it took me all of ten seconds to figure out what was what. The boring Neo talks to the council member dialogue just confirmed it. One can hypothesize from that scene the answer to how the third film will resolve the storyline. Think about it. The answer is in the dialogue.

RELOADED, to me, is a fun action film and nothing more. At no time did it reach the storytelling levels of the original film, which was loved and even worshipped by nearly everyone who saw it. This time the responses are all over the map, with a large minority going so far as to say this film is as bad as The Phantom Menace. I can see their point and understand why they feel the way they do because this film is NOT anywhere near as good as the original. The fact that so many people hate it is proof enough. If the film was as good as the original, or even nearly as good, the negativity that we are seeing all over the internet would not be happening. I say let them bitch. They have the right. Me, I will look at RELOADED and see a film that is not bad, was fun at times, and that will become a great demo piece for my home theater next year.

That all being said, the third film, REVOLUTIONS, looks as though it might be a return to greatness for the Matrix, ala Back to the Future 3. The rules have changed. All the “humans†may very well die. Neo is not a God. He can lose. And we know that there will be no #4, so that sorely lacking sense of danger may, in fact, return for part 3. I hope so. The trailer for it was quite good. Better than the 2 hours and 15 minutes that preceded it.

See you in November.

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post #189 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 05:26 AM
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My review of your review:

It's brilliant. With one caveat. Much like the movie, your review appears to have a cliffhanger ending too (see below). Are we going to have to beat this out of you or what? Enquiring minds want to know.

Quote:
I am 98% sure I know exactly what will happen in REVOLUTIONS.
Quote:
One can hypothesize from that scene the answer to how the third film will resolve the storyline. Think about it. The answer is in the dialogue.
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post #190 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RVonse
What irritates me more than anything else is the success of this show means we are obviously going to see a lot more of this kind of junk from Hollywood.
Here's to hoping so...I too love SF, good or bad, I'll go see all of it once!
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post #191 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 06:00 AM
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Interesting article and spoilers for ya.


This is from the game Enter The Matrix which gives alot of insight into Matrix Revolutions

read and beware your fears might be true

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The Oracle (played by an actress named Mary Alice, due to Gloria Foster's death; I assume this means that Mary Alice will play the Oracle in Revolutions, as well) states that a "special child" who will "change the world" is the child of two programs similar to herself. If she means Neo, this would suggest that Neo is a program and thus that Zion is still part of the Matrix. The Oracle says the two programs betrayed her for their love by giving Merovingian (the French information-collector guy, played by Lambert Wilson) her termination key. The Oracle allowed this because she wanted the programs to have their special child.
A hobo with longish blond hair who also appears in the Revolutions trailer has a conversation with Niobe (Jada Pinket-Smith) in which he reveals that the Zion before this one "only lasted 72 hours". Niobe volunteered to be the second ship to enter the Matrix and contact the Nebuchadnezzar because her boyfriend, Command Lock revealed to her that he had arranged for her ship, the Logos, to be the only one not to participate in the defense of Zion, in order to protect her, and she was angry. At the end of the events of Reloaded, Niobi and Ghost's hovercraft (Logos) has crashed in an uncharted underground area and they do not know how they will be found and rescued".


I was lucky in the order, but I've always been lucky when it comes to killin' folk - Unforgiven cannot wait for the hd-dvd of this gem
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post #192 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 06:08 AM
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Matt,

Thanks for your review, as you have certainly hit the proverbial nail on the head.

I don't want to trash this film, primarily because I enjoyed it. It is what it is; a fun action movie geared towards younger audiences. What is at issue here is how the use of technology in film continues to supersede the most important element of film making...good writing. There's just no hiding poor dialogue; Neo: "I just wish I knew what to do?" Why spend so much money on an adrenaline rush targeted towards male adolescents, without incorporating it into a well written script? We've seen this happen in films time after time, and it becomes frustrating to watch.

I went into this film knowing exactly what I was going to get before hand. For those that didn't know what they would get, I can understand their frustration. Given how many have come away from this film confused is a clear example of its weaknesses.

I hope the third film delivers more.

Howie
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post #193 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 07:45 AM
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After having read thru this entire thread, noting the preponderance of negative opinions, the gist, to me is that it isn't so much a discussion as it is a "crap on Reloaded" thread. This is my opinion, you may disagree. I note, however that the HTF forum with 30,000 fewer registered members has generated almost three times the pages of discussion. Perhaps there is something to be said for a two sided discussion.

Jon Luc, blow up the dammned ship!!!
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post #194 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 07:46 AM
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Hank,

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
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Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
If your speculation is true and everything in this story is a computer program, do you think any explanation will be forthcoming for whatever happened to the "real world"? Or instead, will they maybe be suggesting that there is no "real world" as we know it. That maybe everything we experience is just some form of an "illusion"?

Maybe the point of this whole thing will be that any true understanding of reality is simply not knowable.
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post #195 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by terryb45
After having read thru this entire thread, noting the preponderance of negative opinions, the gist, to me is that it isn't so much a discussion as it is a "crap on Reloaded" thread. This is my opinion, you may disagree. I note, however that the HTF forum with 30,000 fewer registered members has generated almost three times the pages of discussion. Perhaps there is something to be said for a two sided discussion.
That's no suprise. Negativity seems to generate more comments than positivity. As always each person will see and judge the movie based on Criteria only they themselves know. That's why we have so many Movie Critics. Me myself I'm looking forward to my next viewing in Theater.
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post #196 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 08:32 AM
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Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
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Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Lets say the Matrix, and Zion and the hovercrafts all turn out to be parts of the virtual illusion. That leaves what was shown to us as the surface of the planet. Is that "real" or is that also a part of the illusion?
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post #197 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
This Box within a Box thing is, quite frankly, annoying
Nice review - only one problem - there is no box within a box paradox.

This is according to remarks over at Dave Poland's Hot Button website.

You may be slamming in vain.

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post #198 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 09:09 AM
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Sorry, Robert. I was so tired when I wrote that review that I just forgot I didn't write down my guess as to what will happen next.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
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Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Listening to the conversation Neo had with the head council member, I was struck with how it was long and boring. This talk of the machines that run Zion and how the council member doesn't know how they work, but ironically, they need those machines to survive, etc etc. It was during this scene that my suspicions that the end of Reloaded would reveal [b]everything], including Zion, was part of the Matrix. Of course, I was right.

I then came up with the idea that Revolutions will be a battle for control of the full Matrix, with Neo winning and in the end reprogramming the machines to prepare what is left of the planet for the millions of human that are currently batteries, since the human race would strave and die if they just woke up without the means to eat, live, create, and so forth. Neo will not destroy the machines. He will give them a purpose and the irony of the machines, through Neo, saving the human race, will be an offshoot of the council member's musings to Neo.


Hope I explained that well enough.

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post #199 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 09:16 AM
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Here you go Matt. The no boxes within boxes remark is in the third paragraph from the bottom.

http://www.thehotbutton.com/today/ho...030513_tue.htm

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post #200 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 09:44 AM
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This is to the French and Francophile out there.


Give us the translation for the cursing that the Merovingian spouted. Be creative in spelling it out though 'cuz you'd get censored automatically here.


fuad

"DonÂt let them tell you who you are is not enough, that itÂs wrong and that you wonÂt find love. DonÂt let them use my life to put your future down, or tell you that happiness canÂt be found."
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post #201 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
The no boxes within boxes remark is in the third paragraph from the bottom
"Cast members, who obviously know what happens in The Matrix Revolutions, have made it clear that there are no boxes within boxes. What is presented is true. What happens is real"

Now I'm back to confused again. Matt's explanation really does seems as likely as anything to me. But if Matt's explanation turns out to be the case, wouldn't we regard that as a "box within a box"?
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post #202 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 10:51 AM
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I went to see this one again last night and I'd like to take this opportunity to type what I think of this movie (as a movie) and where I think the story is going. There's spoilers ahead and I won't use the spoiler tag so skip this if you haven't seen the movie yet.

Very few movies have had the ability to make me keep thinking about them long after I've seen them. This one (and the first Matrix) is one of them. Sure it wasn't perfect, but you really can't deny that this is a thought-provoking sci-fi/action movie. This is about people putting all self interests and more "human" things aside to struggle for the future and what is "right". The stuff that epics are made of.

If you haven't guessed yet, I really liked this movie. I thought that some of the kung-fu sequences were a little long, but brilliantly choreographed. The first time I saw the movie, the music score distracted me a bit. The second time, I payed more attention to it and enjoyed it but I have to agree with some posters that it doesn't blend seemlessly with the action and calls some attention to itself.

I liked the music at the closing credits. I am not an adolescent game-playing kid. I am a thrity-nine year old game playing kid with a wife and kids. :) If you were offended by this music, don't worry about Hollywood making more and more of these types of movies, there will be plenty of "On Golden Ponds" for us to enjoy.

The editing near the end was a break from what we were used to previously but I don't think they "blew it" or confused me.

As posted before, I think the answer to where this story is going is in the dialogue of Reloaded. There are two key conversations that stick out in my mind. The first is between Neo and the Counselor where they comment on the inter-dependency between man and machine. The second is between the Oracle and Neo. When questioned about her prupose, the Oracle says that she is only interested in the future and the only way to get ther is TOGETHER.

Neo is not a machine, but he's not human either. He is both. He is effectively a mutant, the next evolutionary step and a mixture between man and machine. He is not made up of nuts and bolts per se but allows computer AI to coexist in his mind. I believe he also has the ability to channel the electrical impulses in his body and mind to do things not prescribed by normal human genetics and biology, evidenced by his ability to generate what seemed to be an EMP pulse to disable the sentinels. Neo is both a vessel and power source for the AI, as well as a human.

There are humans that are totally unaware of the matrix and live their lives in "the tanks". There are humans in the real world, Zion, who are aware of the matrix and machines but cannot accept them and must fight them. The machines cannot allow this and must destroy these humans. Neo is the first to realize that both humans and machines must coexist in the future.

The Oracle realizes that, even though it means her certain demise, the future belongs to people like Neo and the machines as they exist will be destroyed. She is at odds with the architect who believes that machines must always be the dominant beings.

The machines and humans don't really matter at this point - Neo and Trinity are the Adam and Eve of a new race.

Now, there is one other being that is *also* both human and machine, Agent Smith. The real struggle, I believe, is not between humans and machines, they are both dinosaurs anyway, but between Neo and Agent Smith. The future belongs to them and to others like them, the battle is about whether good or evil will survive.

One thing that bugged me though. In the first Matrix, when Agent Smith was interrogating Morpheus, he mentioned he wanted "off this planet". Also, in Reloaded, when Neo walked through the last door, before he appeared in the roon with the architect, he traveled through a star-field. I do not know whether this represented "inner-space" or space in galactical terms. This might be a dead end or there might be more to it.

Just my 0.02. We'll see in November....

Cary
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post #203 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 10:53 AM
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hopefully no one else has address all of this before but i have to spit it out while it's fresh in my mind:

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What if Neo/Trinity/Morpheus and all other people both "inside" and "outside" of the matrix are simply AI machines living in a giant simulation that needs to be periodically rebooted - just like Windows. Maybe humans created AI millenia ago and got killed off by the AI. maybe the AI started by using humans as batteries but then learned how turbines could be used to harness the wind/water more effectively and switched. maybe the AIs got bored after all the humans were dead and created the matrix for something to do (ifso, then they either don't know they're AIs by design, or maybe the new AIs that are created don't KNOW that they're AIs and think they're real humans - that have been extinct for hundreds of years). maybe the AIs created the matrix as a game and all the people are simply AI characters. or - the big one - what if the AIs in the matrix are actually humans involved in a simulation and all of the "humans" are the actual AIs that are in the matrix simply to provide entertainment for the real humans. basically everbody gets switched. kinda like in modern simulation games. the computer plays everyone in the game except for you - and YOU can be any character that is programmed into the game: machine or human, depending on the game. now, what if the computer was REALLY big and could run a separate AI program for every character in the game. and what if the game never was shut down - or what if the point of the game is to beat "the one" to "the source". or maybe each iteration of the matrix (six so far) is like "new game" option. maybe there is only one human left on earth - or only one human out of billions playing the game. who he is i haven't the foggiest - maybe the architect. maybe the anomaly in the matrix program requires the AIs (Neo/the One) to select from "Continue" or "End Game" in order to keep playing - whether by design or by fault. if there is only one person left on the planet and he/she created it in order to provide companionship or maintain their sanity, they would have reason to want to keep the game/matrix running: fear of isolation and lonliness.


that's all for now...my brain hurts...
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post #204 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 10:59 AM
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Here's a major major SPOILER



Its the conversation between Neo and The Architect please let me know what you think this all means. I happen to like this movie more than most people because this tends to imply
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that NEO is in fact a system "essential" code (kinda like the kernal in the windows platform) that cannot be killed, for some reason this "core" program is an anomally that cannot be destroyed because it is needed code for the program to function thus the reinsertion to the program that leads to a whole series of events the "rebirth" of the code the way it was meant to be. In essence he is the evolution of code and the architecht is working against him to "fix" the code. Each neo is a result of debugging the program and not being able to fix its flaws



The Conversation
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The Architect - Hello, Neo.

Neo - Who are you?

The Architect - I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I've been
waiting
for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered
your
consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers
you
will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while
your
first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize
it is
also irrelevant.

Neo - Why am I here?

The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced
equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the
eventuality
of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable
to
eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision.
While
it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and
thus
not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.

Neo - You haven't answered my question.

The Architect - Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the
others.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: Others? What
others? How many? Answer me!'*

The Architect - The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting
from
the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in
which
case this is the sixth version.

*Again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: Five
versions? Three? I've been lied too. This is bull****.*

Neo: There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me,
or no
one knows.

The Architect - Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the
anomaly's
systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

*Once again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors:
You
can't control me! **** you! I'm going to kill you! You can't make me
do
anything!*

Neo - Choice. The problem is choice.

*The scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the
Architects room*

The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally
perfect, it
was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its
monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me
now
as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being,
thus I
redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the
varying
grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by
failure. I
have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it
required
a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of
perfection.
Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program,
initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche.
If I
am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo - The Oracle.

The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution
whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as
long as
they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice
at a
near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously
fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory
systemic
anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself.
Ergo,
those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would
constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo - This is about Zion.

The Architect - You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed.
Its
every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo - Bull****.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: Bull****!*

The Architect - Denial is the most predictable of all human responses.
But,
rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we
have
become exceedingly efficient at it.

*Scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the
Architects
room.*

The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the
source,
allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting
the
prime program. After which you will be required to select from the
matrix 23
individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply
with this
process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone
connected
to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will
ultimately
result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo - You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to
survive.

The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to
accept.
However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept
the
responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.

*The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and
images of
people from all over the matrix appear on the monitors*

The Architect - It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five
predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a
contingent
affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest
of
your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others
experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more
specific. Vis-a-vis, love.

*Images of Trinity fighting the agent from Neos dream appear on the
monitors*

Neo - Trinity.

The Architect - Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at
the
cost of her own.

Neo - No!

The Architect - Which brings us at last to the moment of truth,
wherein the
fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as
both
beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads
to the
source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to
the
matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put,
the
problem is choice. But we already know what you're going to do, don't
we?
Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that
signal
the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and
reason.
An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious
truth:
she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.

*Neo walks to the door on his left*

The Architect - Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion,
simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest
weakness.

Neo - If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

The Architect - We won't.

I was lucky in the order, but I've always been lucky when it comes to killin' folk - Unforgiven cannot wait for the hd-dvd of this gem
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post #205 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 11:09 AM
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Hank - my take is Neo is quite human. His relationship with Agent Smith is the key. Both have been able to take on qualities the other possesses ie Neo stopping Sentinels in the real world, Smith being able to cross into the real world via Banes.

Every man is my superior, in that I may learn from him.
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post #206 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 11:17 AM
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The take in my spoiler above is the along the lines of what Matt is saying. NEO will win his code will prevail or the programmer who developed him will prevail and return the "right" order back to the matrix, where the machines no longer rule.

I was lucky in the order, but I've always been lucky when it comes to killin' folk - Unforgiven cannot wait for the hd-dvd of this gem
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post #207 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 11:20 AM
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Sounds nice - main issue is that Neo is human and not a program.

Every man is my superior, in that I may learn from him.
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post #208 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 11:33 AM
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I still keeping thinking about what Larry and Andy Wachowski have mentioned in interviews. From their comments, I am left with the impression that Neo is simply an extension of the real human being, Thomas Anderson. Just exactly how Neo is an extension of Anderson remains to be seen.

I really need to go watch the film again. There's so much going on that a single viewing just doesn't cut it.

Howie
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post #209 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
In "The Matrix Reloaded," the citizens of Zion pin their hopes on computer hacker Neo (Keanu Reeves), who struggles with his role as their savior. (Cornel) West says the film has a "fascinating," if subtle, critique of "salvation narratives."

Themes in the sequel undercut those in the original, he said. "The first was all about Neo as a salvation figure, saving the globe. The second is a devastating critique of all salvation stories. It has political implications. It has religious implications."
From Calender Live.

http://www.calendarlive.com/movies/c...ll=cl%2Dmovies



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"DonÂt let them tell you who you are is not enough, that itÂs wrong and that you wonÂt find love. DonÂt let them use my life to put your future down, or tell you that happiness canÂt be found."
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post #210 of 430 Old 05-20-2003, 12:17 PM
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I think the similarities between Neo and Bane(Smith) go pretty deep. Remember how at the end they are both in comas? Neo was in one because he stopped the hunter machines with a biological EMP? The humans were talking about Bane being the only survivor after a premature EMP which took out the ships. I wonder if it was a biological EMP emitted from Bane who was outside the ships, hiding? Those are some pretty big parallels.

I hadn't seen flight of the Orisis yet and was wondering if the crew observed the machines on the surface of the real world? If not have any of the humans seen it in the past couple of hundred years? As efficient as machines can be, especially once they started reproducing and optimizing their growth during the war (Look how quickly tech increases for the winning side of a war in OUR history) I wonder what they have been up to the last 200 years on the surface. If they had wanted to I'm sure they could have terraformed Earth's atmosphere by now or at least developed fusion to supply their own endless energy.
Why would they need to keep the humans around? Maybe they have advanced to a point where they try to preserve life as long as it isn't a threat to them. (Matrix=Zoo for the machines. It is a way to observe humans in their natural habitat) Who knows, maybe the Matrix will release everybody once it determines that humanity isn't a threat?

Quote:
Originally posted by Lou Sytsma
Hank - my take is Neo is quite human. His relationship with Agent Smith is the key. Both have been able to take on qualities the other possesses ie Neo stopping Sentinels in the real world, Smith being able to cross into the real world via Banes.
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