OFFICIAL The Matrix: Reloaded review thread (be advised: SPOILERS inside) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 430 Old 05-09-2003, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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This is the official review thread for The Matrix: Reloaded. All reviews should be posted here. Those that don't will be merged with this thread.

Please take care to not drop a spoiler without a warning. If you are about to reveal something that will ruin the movie for those that haven't seen it, you should give some kind of warning or better yet, use the "spoiler tag". To hide your comments in white, place "[ spoiler ]" at the front of your comments (without the spaces or quotes) and "[ / spoiler ]" at the end. Don't forget the "/" symbol. Your comments would look like this:

You MUST give some kind of spoiler warning before you post a spoiler for The Matrix: Revolutions. Speculation about Revolutions doesn't require a spoiler warning. But if you read a Revolutions spoiler somewhere else, don't post it here without some kind of warning. Thanks!
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post #2 of 430 Old 05-14-2003, 10:47 AM
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Advance Review of The Matrix Reloaded!!!
by Md. Fuad Zain

The summer movie season of 1999 started rather innocuously with a "small" film called The Matrix. It broke many rules of Hollywood, among them: making a sci-fi/action movie that looked like it had a budget of US$100 million when it was only made for US$65 million; daring to tell a complicated and intriguing story while still respecting its audience's intelligence; daring even still to require that its leading actors perform their own kung-fu wirework stunts in wide shots without insert cuts. The gamble paid off handsomely as it shot the careers of the Wachowsky brothers and Carrie-Anne Moss through the stratosphere, gave Laurence Fishburne that extra coolness and revived Keanu Reeves' bankability. Four years later, The Matrix Reloaded arrives.

Basic plot detail is below. Click if you dare.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The movie starts with the threat of the Machine Army looming dangerously close; The Final Flight Of The Osiris, The Animatrix short film, is the prelude to The Matrix Reloaded that tells this story.
Neo (Reeves) is now part of the crew of the Nebuchadnezzar. Morpheus, who leads this crew of four, believes strongly that the end is near once Neo finds The Source. Trinity (Moss) and Link (Harold Perrineau), as the operator, completes this band of hackers. Together they have to make the Prophecy come true or risk the fall of Zion.

Keeping them from completing the task is Agent Scott (Matt McColm) who took over when Agent Smith (Hugo Weaving) went missing from the System. Complicating matters is Mervengioni (Lambert Wilson) and his thugs, The Twins (Adrian and Neil Rayment). But help comes from Zion's other soldiers, Niobe (Jada Pinkett Smith) and Ghost (Anthony Wong), and an unlikely ally, Persephone (Monica Belluci). Still, the badass Agent Smith is not too far behind Neo and this time, he has a new trick up his sleeve.


From the first action sequence, you know you are in a hell of a ride. It also shows how much more money Andy and Larry Wachowski were given for their sequels. Their script is inventive, intriguing and involving as before. The quasi-philosophical scenes in the movie is so mind-boggling sometimes that you feel as though you are in the middle of an existential lecture. Still, there is enough humor scattered all over to lighten up an otherwise intense sci-fi/action movie. And yes, the script assumes that you've seen The Matrix. As before, the Wachowskis' direction is deft and beautifully precise. From the subtlest tender moments to the exhilarating action sequences, these brothers prove that sometimes two heads in the director's chair are better than one.

Reeves shows again why he is the perfect choice for Neo. His wide-eyed and befuddled scene with the Oracle (Gloria Foster) works brilliantly and serves as the first-time audience's empathic connection to the movie. Fishburne also proves that he is not only a great actor but that he should run for President! Moss, Weaving, Belluci, Wilson and the Rayments were given some great crackling and memorable one-liners. Smith and Wong are under utilized perhaps because they are featured prominently in Enter The Matrix, the video game tie-in that serves up a more complete story to this neo-classic trilogy.

After The Matrix, every other action film has used and overused the bullet time effects to death. If you wonder how John Gaeta and his visual effects team could pull off that gee-whiz factor, then wonder no more. The first action sequence hints at this but it is only when the burly brawl sequence plays out that you realize the extent of innovation they came up with. While the CGIs could use a little more massaging, that sequence will make your jaw drop as to the complexity of it all. The piece de resistance must be the highway chase sequence - an instant movie classic. Not even the most seasoned Grand Theft Auto players and perpetrators can predict what will unfold next. This sequence will have your palms sweaty and your heart racing by the time it ends.

Complementing this department is the rest of The Matrix veterans. Dane Davis' contribution as the sound designer and supervising sound editor will definitely be appreciated by home theater enthusiast, with its sweeping, encompassing and dynamic mix of gunshots, shell casings and explosions. Don Davis' score blends perfectly with the original film's score while still evoking something primal and edgy with the more extensive use of percussions. Bill Pope's work as the director of photography is really meant to be enjoyed on the widest screen possible and Zach Staenberg cut the film to almost perfection. Incidentally through their work, The Matrix won four out of four of the nominations it received in the Oscars in 2000 for Best Editing, Best Visual Effects, Best Sound and Best Sound Effects Editing.

What you saw in The Matrix Reloaded trailer was just enough to whet your appetite. The Matrix Reloaded shreds the first two episodes of the Star Wars saga to pieces with deeper and resonant themes - though that's not really hard to do. It is a bolder and scarier ride and it will have you at the edge of your seats. You would be cursing in French just to see if time could pass fast enough for the fourth quarter of 2003 to come because that is when The Matrix Revolutions and Lord Of The Rings: The Return Of The King arrive at your cinema screens. And do stay until the end of the credits for a two-minute preview of The Matrix Revolutions!


The Matrix Reloaded
Sci-Fi/Action, Color, 2003
Director: The Wachowski Brothers
Cast: Keanu Reeves, Laurence Fishburne, Carrie-Anne Moss, Hugo Weaving, Jada Pinkett Smith, Monica Belluci, Gloria Foster, Harold Perrineau, Matt McColm, Adrian and Neil Rayment, Lambert Wilson, Anthony Wong.
Language: English.
Sound Format : Dolby Digital, DTS and SDDS
http://www.thematrix.com/


(PS - I tried posting on the Official Review threat but it was closed!)

"DonÂt let them tell you who you are is not enough, that itÂs wrong and that you wonÂt find love. DonÂt let them use my life to put your future down, or tell you that happiness canÂt be found."
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post #3 of 430 Old 05-14-2003, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Threads merged.

Let the reviewage begin! :)

I see it tonight...
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post #4 of 430 Old 05-14-2003, 03:37 PM
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I have not seen this movie yet. One critic's review:

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The Wachowski brothers, the creators of "The Matrix" franchise and this second edition of the ground-breaking trilogy, have once again raised the bar regarding what is possible in an action/adventure blockbuster.

Unfortunately, the result is not really a feature film. It's a video game.

A damn good video game, but a video game nevertheless -- albeit one hot-wired to the joystick of every video junkie/adolescent male in the universe. Because of that, it will make hundreds of millions of dollars.
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I was afraid of this. Giant budget all spent on special effects. Gahh.
I'm going to wait to see this until some regular Joes report back. I hope not all of them are "video junkie/adolescent males".

--Howard Dallas, TX
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post #5 of 430 Old 05-14-2003, 05:32 PM
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A must see! I thought this was one of the greatest action movies I have seen.
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post #6 of 430 Old 05-14-2003, 09:26 PM
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Well, surely some of you east-coast guys are back home now from the 10pm show. Lets here it....

Cary
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post #7 of 430 Old 05-14-2003, 10:45 PM
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It rocked. Go see it. I can't wait for the DVD.

Edit-- Get some rest before seeing it though :). It is one heck of a ride.
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post #8 of 430 Old 05-14-2003, 10:54 PM
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I've got tickets for the 1pm afternoon show tomorrow. It was sure tempting to go to the 10pm tonight though...

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post #9 of 430 Old 05-14-2003, 11:00 PM
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I second above comments. Unbelievable action movie. The best I have seen. Worth every penny and will try to see it again.
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post #10 of 430 Old 05-14-2003, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I got back a little while ago. First let me say that I have been very nervous about the film. I thought there was a good chance it would be awful. The good news is that even though there are some scenes that looked fake (to me), the overall film was damn good and as a home theater aficionado, I can say the DVD will be reference material and for sure the soundtrack will be used to demo the surrounds. There are a lot of enveloping directional effects in the soundtrack (especially with explosions). As far as the movie goes, it had its weaknesses and its strengths. The eye candy scenes were mostly stunning, the philosophy was not the endless exposition that I was fearing, although it definitely pushed the limits of my concentration, especially towards the end. This is one movie you have to see in the theater. It's an experience I'll never forget. So my opinion is overall very positive, although as a big fan of the original, I realize this could have been a better movie.
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post #11 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 01:51 AM
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I am a huge fan of the original and this was a bit of a let down. The first hour or so of the movie is somewhat boring.. the zion scenes are too long and the speeches are preachy and often unnecessary. Once you get back into the matrix though it gets much better.. the action scenes are very good and look very real except for the brawl with all the agent smiths. I was disappointed to see that parts of it were very obviously CG and didn't even look close to real to me. Part of the greatness of the first movie was its use of real actors doing all the fight scenes and no stand in CG actors and this really detracts from the scene I think. The story is a bit light but towards the end it really picks up and holds its own. Had they edited the first half a bit better and took out some of the over done CG stuff it could have been a Really great film.. as it is still ok just not as good as it should have been.
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post #12 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 03:15 AM
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So what else is new ? Our entire society is driven by the testosterone of adolescent males !

When you die there will be one question. Did you have passion ?
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post #13 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 06:21 AM
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Saw it last nite and agree with Larry.....

This movie has a huge HYPE machine attached to it..yes its a little weak in the story line and sometimes a little slow but the movie is relentless. Keep in mind that this is the "middle part" there is only so much they can do.

The sound was incredible.....the DVD will be huge. All in all I enjoyed it and will probably go back....so just relax and enjoy it.

By the way remember to stay for the end credits because after the credits they show the trailer for the next Matrix installment in Nov.
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post #14 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 08:20 AM
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My 14yr old son is nagging me to death about taking him to see this. It is rated-R, correct? Anyone who saw the movie care to comment on the appropriateness or not of taking a 14yr old male to this movie. Would you, did you take your kids to this movie? Thanks!

Luke
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post #15 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
By the way remember to stay for the end credits because after the credits they show the trailer for the next Matrix installment in Nov.
I'm thinking of going to see it today; thanks for that tip! I probably wouldn't have stayed through the credits otherwise.

Thanks,

Scott
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post #16 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 08:46 AM
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I agree completely with savageone. First.... the first portion of the movie is slow. There were unnecessary scenes b/t neo and trinity and zion that bogged the movie down. I was actually bored for the first 45 minutes or so. But once the movie gets going.... it's pure on the edge of your seat action. This movie could have improved with more editing, streamlining it, and maybe more content than pure action. Definitely a demo DVD to purchase.


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post #17 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 09:39 AM
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I saw this last night at 10pm. Even though it could be argued that the start is slow, it kept my attention and got my grey matter going. I personally really liked the sequence where they arrive in Zion. An artistic moment which echoes those grand starship arrivals in the original Star Wars trilogy. There are some parts which I think computer programmers relate to a bit more than the general audience. The concept of backdoor hacks in the Matrix is fascinating! I think that calling the meeting place of Zion a Temple and then turning it into a sleazy nightclub was cheap. On the other hand, I think there was an intelligence to the film that will only be realized on future viewings (it was the same for me with the original Matrix.)
In fact I think it may contain some of the most eloquent dialogue of any action/sci-fi movie I have seen.
Few action sequences make me go WOW, and fewer make me FEEL wow these days. There were two of three of these moments in this film.

About Neo - (not sure if this is a spoiler but just in case):

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

One frustration is that we go from Neo being unsure of himself and just realizing his power at the end of the first film, to now being an arrogant superman, who selfishly lusts after Trinity. A different kind of hero that I don't really relate to. And when it really matters he doesn't show any real emotion that I could relate to. This marks the difference between very good and greatness for me.


In some of the action sequences it is obvious that Neo is CG. Takes the edge off the stunt it for me. Bullet-time is sometimes replaced by CG in this film and it doesn't work so well. I have a feeling that perhaps some stunts may have been physically impossible to put bullet time cameras on, so they had to resort to CG.
There is no question that the car chase sequence is better than the motorcycle chase in T2, and the end of that sequence is the one that made me FEEL WOW!
As for the deeper plot of the Matrix Reloaded, one can only hope that the questions and seeming flaws are answered in the third film.
For example:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

What really is the significance of Agent Smith now, other than being a formidible foe and the focus of some cool action sequences. What is his relationship to the Matrix in his new role?


It kind of leaves you wanting to see the next one as Fellowship left you wanting the Two Towers. But overall I personally enjoy the context of Lord of the Rings more.
Even though this film is very good, if I HAD to choose one more movie to watch in the theatre this year it would be Return of the King.

(I'm really looking forward to picking up the Enter the Matrix game today. The film has definitely whet my appetite for some serious gameplay!) :p

Red-3 Standing By...


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post #18 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 10:25 AM
 
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I saw this last night with about a dozen or so friends. I must have spent half the movie with my jaw on my chest. This is the first movie since Pulp Fiction that made me want to immediately go back and see it a second time. It was visually stunning, and I believe the special effects and action sequences have set a new standard against which action films will be judged for many years to come. But...

The plot is far more sophisticated than most people (critics) are giving it credit for. Many subtleties and intricacies are easily missed; it's quite complex. In discussing it this morning with others withwhom I saw it last night, I find that many of them missed or misunderstood certain aspects of the plot - I've had to correct certain misconceptions that several people had (and once I did, they suddenly liked the film a lot better.) I'd cite an example but I don't know how to do the "highlight this" spoiler text and I won't ruin it for others. The Wachowski brothers have done an AMAZING job of exploiting the complexities of reality vs. CG reality.

I'd like to know - of all the people who are panning this film, how many saw the previews? Everyone I know that avoided the previews thought this film was AMAZING - STUNNING. Several people who DID watch the previews are complaining this morning about how they knew what was going to happen - about how they'd seen "all the good stuff" in the previews. (This is only true if you don't understand the intricacies of the plot - the action sequences are unbelievably awesome, but the plot is just as rich as the eye candy - if you can follow it - which is tough with all the mind-boggling action.) I painstakingly avoided all previews for this film (and even discussions of said previews). I'm glad I did - having now heard about some of the things they've shown in the previews, I gotta say that I think my enjoyment it's WAY better to see things for the first time within the context of the entire film. Needless to say, I did not stay for the "Revolutions" preview. (If you've never tried going into a blockbuster film with no advance knowledge or expectations, I highly recommend you try it - at least once - it changes everything, and usually for the better.)

Another thing that many are failing to take into consideration is that this is part two of a trilogy - it's a bridge. I didn't expect much from LOTR: The Two Towers (and it's a good thing, too) because it's a bridge - it was easily the weakest of the three books, too. Considering that this was the middle installment of a trilogy, it is especially amazing.

This is a PHENOMENAL film (or at least it is if you haven't seen the previews) and not nearly as superficial as you might think after reading all the negativity surrounding the action sequences. VERY highly recommended.

Moderators: Sorry for my comments in other threads - I didn't see this thread first - I re-posted (and expanded my review) to save you the trouble of moving my review over from other threads.
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post #19 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 11:40 AM
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I saw this last night in a packed theatre and was SO dissapointed. Actually, I thought it was a terible movie. I'm a huge fan of the first one, but this movie had none of the wit or understated style of the first one. It's like they realized that what people liked about the first one was black coats, sunglasses, and "bullet-time," so that's ALL they gave us this time. Lots of sunglasses, too much "style" pushed in our faces, and action sequences that were so overly done that I found them boring. I was actually looking at my watch waiting for them to end. Yes, many of the effects looked very good but had no weight, emotion, or passion behind them. To me, this movie was very much like the last 2 star-wars movies.

If you like videogames and expect your movies to be like that (lots of car wrecks, no consequences, etc), you may love this movie. If you appreciated the wit and intelligence of the first one, expertly coupled with well-chosen scenes of action, enough style to be cool, but not too much to be cheesy, and a limited, personal cast, this one may not be for you. I think they lost their vision.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

And one more thing...
It seems so obvious to me that the studio gave them notes saying "the first one had NO sex in it, and this one needs to have some in it for the money we're paying." So they added in that Trinity and Neo "love" scene that seemed forced and cheap and would have been totally emotionless if it weren't for the music and cuts to the passionate dancing going on elsewhere. Same goes for the woman who has the orgasm due to the the piece of cake she ate. Clearly just put there to add some sex interest into the film, and same goes for the wife of that french guy kissing neo. It's all so obvious and arbitrary. Neither of those things (especially the woman with the orgasm) had to be sex-based, and it seemed so contrived that they made them that way just to add that element to the film. Much of the rest of the movie seemed that way too. The plot was driven by where they could end up doing the best action sequences. Most movies are this way, too, but this one more so than normal.
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post #20 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 11:44 AM
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Spoilers........................................
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For those who saw the film..............
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
it appeared to me the end that they may actually be in 2 Matrixed environments.
What do you think?

(edited by Larry Davis to add the spoiler tag. The spoiler does discuss the end of the movie...)

NE Ohio HT Nutt
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post #21 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 11:45 AM
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ElvisIncognito,

I couldn't agree with your review more. While this is not perfect, it is simply stunning visually and satisfying intellectually. I had HUGE expectations of this film before the reviews started pouring in...the naysayers essentially calmed my anticipation in essence making it more possible to be blown away. I did go into the movie expecting something, but was able throw out my expectations during the first 30 minutes of the movie and let the film happen and WOW, what an experience. I am very excited to see this movie again. I suspect this will be a very polarized movie with some hating it and some loving it. All I can say for those yet to see it is "Free you mind"

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post #22 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 11:54 AM
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I can't get this movie out of my head......I was hyped about this movie from day 1....then I started reading a lot of negative/mixed reviews and my expectations were lowered. I saw a premiere last night...with multiple friends.....THIS IS THE GREATEST ACTION/ADVENTURE MOVIE EVER MADE! There....I said it. It is also one of my favorite movies of all time. If they had another showing after the premiere....I would've stayed and enjoyed it even more the second time. I have never witnessed anything this awesome on film in my life. This movie blew away my lowered and lofty expectations. This is the type of movie that you dream about. Me and some friends of mine watched the original Matrix right before Reloaded and that made it all the better. Don't listen to any of the negative reviews,don't listen to crap about fake CGI and long, unneccesary dialogue, don't listen to compalaints about how long certain sequences were(Rave); all of this just adds to the art and masterpiece that is the Matrix Reloaded. This trilogy will go down in history as the greatest trilogy next to the godfather....believe that! This movie has more style than your wife's gay hairdresser(no offense to any gay members).
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post #23 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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SKoprowski,

HUGE end of movie spoiler. Don't read if you haven't seen the movie yet.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
It seems that the "real world" is also the matrix and I think Neo and his friends are AI, just as much as agent Smith. The only way for that to not be true, would be for all the residents of Zion to still be "asleep" in some other reality, where they truly exist as flesh and blood beings. I think Neo is still trying to come to grips with what the Architect told him. He hides his specific knowledge from Morpheus and when he stops the sentinels in Zion, he isn't seen exercising his powers as The One in Zion, just as skillfully as in the matrix. I guess in Revolutions the people in Zion will have to be told the truth (the real world is just as fake as The Matrix).


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post #24 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 12:27 PM
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It's tempting to dismiss the film due to its complexity. I cannot believe that the directors have not thought it all through and will wrap it all up in time. Good job we don't have to wait too long, otherwise we'd all end up in padded cells in the nut house!

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The real world is another Matrix? Well, I guess that shows just how deep the rabbit hole goes! I was totally confused at how Agent Smith, a program creation of the Matrix, could get into the real world (albeit in another body), and this could explain it.


Question for those of you who have seen it:
Who is the most confusing / mysterious character in The Matrix Reloaded?

There must be at least 20 to choose from!

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post #25 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by Red-3
(snip)

About Neo - (not sure if this is a spoiler but just in case):

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One frustration is that we go from Neo being unsure of himself and just realizing his power at the end of the first film, to now being an arrogant superman, who selfishly lusts after Trinity. A different kind of hero that I don't really relate to. And when it really matters he doesn't show any real emotion that I could relate to. This marks the difference between very good and greatness for me.

I don't know where you got this but... isn't love is a form of selfishness? Hehe.... Anyway,
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If you're talking about his actions of choosing Trinity over saving Zion, that's really just the nature of Neo and others like him (Trinity & Morpheus) that has been unplugged from the Matrix. If they had to choose something predictable to something that is mysterious and unknown, they chose the unknown - ie the blue pill. And remember that the Source was the one who offered the Zion salvation - how could he trust it anymore after being told he was lured there by several different programs? (Mervengioni, Oracle, Keymaker) What he did was to choose his own fate and he didn't do this lightly. And he certainly didn't let go of this responsibility - he told the crew of Nebuchadnezzar of what is going to happen.

More will be revealed in Revolutions, I take it and it makes it more exciting.


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"DonÂt let them tell you who you are is not enough, that itÂs wrong and that you wonÂt find love. DonÂt let them use my life to put your future down, or tell you that happiness canÂt be found."
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post #26 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by WriteSimple

More will be revealed in Revolutions, I take it and it makes it more exciting.

fuad [/b]
I agree with you on this - the more we speculate the more exciting the outcome. Have they created another "Luke, I am your Father" hook. I think they just might have...

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Some of the frustration is that Neo is so staid. He just give away too much of the emotional conflict he faces, other than telling Trinity that he doesn't know what to do.
What the movie did imply was that Neo had already made his choice before he even got to the Source.

Question: Did the Matrix/Source put the dream (of Trinity dying) in his head?
This could be true if the 'Real World' is actually another Matrix virtual reality....


I think this film will go from strength to strength. But I think some people will just give up on it intellectually, just like many did with the Matrix.

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post #27 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by PUCK
I saw this last night in a packed theatre and was SO dissapointed. Actually, I thought it was a terible movie. I'm a huge fan of the first one, but this movie had none of the wit or understated style of the first one. It's like they realized that what people liked about the first one was black coats, sunglasses, and "bullet-time," so that's ALL they gave us this time. Lots of sunglasses, too much "style" pushed in our faces, and action sequences that were so overly done that I found them boring. I was actually looking at my watch waiting for them to end. Yes, many of the effects looked very good but had no weight, emotion, or passion behind them. To me, this movie was very much like the last 2 star-wars movies.

If you like videogames and expect your movies to be like that (lots of car wrecks, no consequences, etc), you may love this movie. If you appreciated the wit and intelligence of the first one, expertly coupled with well-chosen scenes of action, enough style to be cool, but not too much to be cheesy, and a limited, personal cast, this one may not be for you. I think they lost their vision.


The fact that a lot of people who has seen it thought that the first half of the movie was slow should be an indication as to how much serious content that was infused in the movie.

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Did you miss the part where Choice and Fate was discussed?


As far as the consequences of their actions in the Matrix are concerned, The Matrix itself didn't address it - it's really up to people to figure out if there was any real violence or even death when it happens in the Matrix...

As far as style, it's just a carry-over from the first and it certainly blends seamlessly. If you don't carry it over, it would look wrong.

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And one more thing...
It seems so obvious to me that the studio gave them notes saying "the first one had NO sex in it, and this one needs to have some in it for the money we're paying." So they added in that Trinity and Neo "love" scene that seemed forced and cheap and would have been totally emotionless if it weren't for the music and cuts to the passionate dancing going on elsewhere. Same goes for the woman who has the orgasm due to the the piece of cake she ate. Clearly just put there to add some sex interest into the film, and same goes for the wife of that french guy kissing neo. It's all so obvious and arbitrary. Neither of those things (especially the woman with the orgasm) had to be sex-based, and it seemed so contrived that they made them that way just to add that element to the film. Much of the rest of the movie seemed that way too. The plot was driven by where they could end up doing the best action sequences. Most movies are this way, too, but this one more so than normal.
I disagree. One could read that
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the sex scenes between Trinity and Neo is simply a celebration of human existance that is perfectly intergrated with the Temple sequence. Think about it: Neo, Trinity and others had only lost their virtual virginity while he is in the Matrix. This show of sex is meant to connect the audience with the reality of living in Zion and of actual physical experience that is raw and sweaty.

And as far as the scene with Mervengioni, it's a story point that leads to the next story point but done so interestingly. Prior to that point, you only knew that the Oracle and Seraph were programs running on its own in the System. The rest of the System are cold blooded programs and machines like the Squids and the Agents. Mervengioni and Persephone were interesting because they actually show how great the A.I. humans had created. When you can have codes of programming that can simulate/feel love/hate, that's really a holy grail - and dangerous!



fuad

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post #28 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 02:02 PM
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I hope that it doesnt end up being a matrx within a matrix becuase that was already done in the movie "the 13th floor". I see another possibility being that since they were all part of the matrix maybe his special powers now make the matrix part of him now and that he has a full time direct link to the computers and in turn to the machines and has control over them now.


I have to say that I think these reviews are pretty on target with the general public. I went to see it with 11 people. About have of them really liked it a few people hated it and a few people (like myself) thought it was just ok but should have been better. One comment I would make is that it seems like they went way overboard on their budget. The first movie cost 60 million total while this one cost 2 and a half times that without really looking like it did which says to me that they got wasteful. I think they took for granted what they had to work with and lost sight a little of what they could do and ended up doing some stuff just becuase they could. (like building a highway for 20 millinion dollars just to shoot that one scene when they could have just as easily filmed it somewhere that was already built and saved a lot of money!)
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post #29 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 02:05 PM
 
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Calling the meeting place of Zion a Temple and then turning it into a sleazy nightclub was cheap.
Try looking at this within its context - as a cultural celebration by a society that began with only 24 people only 100 years ago. Within the context of our society, it may appear to be just a big rave, but within the context of the film, it was more akin to a celebration of survival (erego fertility). Reproduction (and therefore sex) would be a very big deal to such a society. This is an excellent example of what I was saying earlier about the depth and complexity of the plot.
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The first hour or so of the movie is somewhat boring.. the zion scenes are too long and the speeches are preachy and often unnecessary
I disagree... This was not only our first look at Zion and its culture (and the messianic status which has been thrust on Neo) but also the prelude to the great conflict that's imminent. If anything, I believe the Wachowski Bros may have cut too much from this film - as evidenced by the overly subtle nature of some key plot elements.
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I was disappointed to see that parts of it were very obviously CG
Were you equally disappointed by all the CG in the recent Star Wars episodes and in LOTR? I can't understand such criticism - give them some credit for even attempting a huge fight scene with 100 Agent Smiths! And who's to say that the Agent Smith virus (and that IS what he has become) doesn't sacrifice some fidelity when forced to reproduce too quickly? (I know, that one's a stretch! ;))
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yes its a little weak in the story line and sometimes a little slow
I don't think it was the slightest bit weak, but I do think that a lot of key plot elements were easily missed. Almost everyone I saw the movie with missed the significance when Agent Smith (which is a software program - and a virus at that) managed to infect a person and thereby cross over into "the real world". My mind was grappling with that throughout the remainder of the film (when it wasn't being overloaded by the mind-boggling action sequences!)
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the first portion of the movie is slow
Are you KIDDING me??? The movie opens with an amazing action sequence with Trinity, a motorcycle and an agent, then segues into the passage of Agent Smith from the Matrix to "the real world"! That's slow?!?!?!
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One frustration is that we go from Neo being unsure of himself and just realizing his power at the end of the first film, to now being an arrogant superman, who selfishly lusts after Trinity.
Clearly some time has passed between the two films- I guess you have to accept that as a premise for the changes in Neo's character. I didn't really see any arrogance, but based on the fight sequences that followed, it's pretty clear how Neo became so confident. Neo is a bit of an enigma, but again, look at it within the film's context... what kinds of changes would you go through if you suddenly became a messiah for an entire culture?
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What really is the significance of Agent Smith now, other than being a formidible foe and the focus of some cool action sequences. What is his relationship to the Matrix in his new role?
Well, the fact that he has become a virus, capable of spreading to (and efeectively overwriting the code of) "normal" agents is certainly very significant... And the fact that he (it) can - and DID - spread to "the real world" is extremely significant! Does this mean that "the real world" is also a matrix-like CG environment as well? Neo's ability to "feel" the sentinels (and use his Matrix-based powers against them) would indicate so. I don't know the answer, but I can't wait to find out in November!
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It's like they realized that what people liked about the first one was black coats, sunglasses, and "bullet-time," so that's ALL they gave us this time. Lots of sunglasses, too much "style" pushed in our faces, and action sequences that were so overly done that I found them boring.
. . .
The plot was driven by where they could end up doing the best action sequences.
I'd say you missed a lot of key plot elements. You may want to go see it again and try not to get so distracted by the action sequences...

Neo is the sixth anomaly - the sixth "The One". Of the five who came before him (including the one immediately preceding Neo, whom Morpheus refers to in the first film as "the one who freed the first of us") every one of them chose the door on the right - the Matrix wins - they're able to have the anomaly that they need in order for the Matrix to work, yet they can still retain control because they understand just enough about human nature to know that when "The One" reaches The Source, he will always choose survival. The cycle begins anew and the Matrix retains control.

But this time it's different - The Oracle has figured out that love(/sex/passion) is the one thing that will cause humans to react in a manner that may be inconsistent with our survival instinct. She sends him Trinity, and Neo's love for her causes him to choose the other door. The door that The Architect assures him will lead to the extinction of humanity. But of course, Neo knows by now that he can't believe everything that he's told by a component of the Matrix (not to mention the "some rules can be bent, others can be broken" lesson that he learned in the first film). I'm not sure he knows yet that The Architect was bluffing... but WE know that The Architect has no way of knowing what will happen if "The One" chooses the door on the left - because no one ever has, and with good reason - The Matrix doesn't want him to!

Finally, Neo "feels" the sentinels - and stops them using powers that he shouldn't have in "the real world"...
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Same goes for the woman who has the orgasm due to the the piece of cake she ate. Clearly just put there to add some sex interest into the film, and same goes for the wife of that french guy kissing neo. It's all so obvious and arbitrary.
Could they have found a better way for Persiphony to turn against her husband and aide them in their quest to free the keymaker? Maybe, but sex sells and Hollywood knows it.
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post #30 of 430 Old 05-15-2003, 02:12 PM
 
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Originally posted by Savageone79
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I see another possibility being that since they were all part of the matrix maybe his special powers now make the matrix part of him now and that he has a full time direct link to the computers and in turn to the machines and has control over them now.
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I think this is much more likely - especially since he's not the only person in the real world for whom the Matirx is a part... The guy infected with "the Agent Smith" virus is Yin to Neo's Yang.

My guess is that Neo will come to realize the truth, and realize that he is still (again?) a part of the Matrix - and it of him - and in the end, he will probably find a way to destroy it, save Zion and end the war, but in so doing he will also destroy himself.
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