OFFICIAL Matrix: Revolutions theatrical review thread (MEGA SPOILERS!) - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by WriteSimple
Obviously, you missed crucial plot points of The Second Renaissance of the Animatrix. Don't worry - it's still available online and free of charge. Go watch it again.

fuad
Where? Is this different than what is on the ANIMATRIX DVD? Is it available for viewing at whatisthematrix.com? And ... how long is it? Thanks!
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post #92 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by eweiss
Where? Is this different than what is on the ANIMATRIX DVD? Is it available for viewing at whatisthematrix.com? And ... how long is it? Thanks!
Second Renaissance Part I & II on the DVD is the same as what's online at http://www.intothematrix.com/.
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post #93 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 07:27 AM
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I watched Revolutions last night on an IMAX screen.

Here are some random thoughts I have about the whole experience:

What is it with people who "reserve" seats for their buddies. If I arrive at 6 for a 7:00 showing, I have more right to that seat than their buddies who will be coming at around 6:50. Since I don't really go to see movies very much and I hate confrontation, I didn't say anything. But I should've told him to get lost or go get the manager. These days if you argue with people, you never know if they're going to do you in later in the parking lot.

The 5-10 minute IMAX intro was more impressive than the actual IMAX presentation of the movie. Parts of the movie were clear, but other parts were quite grainy. I appreciate my home theatre much more after last nights experience. I don't anticipate going to the theatre ever again. I can wait until the DVD is released for any future movie.

Anyways, on to the movie. I was dissappointed with it. The action was top notch, no doubt. The machines attacking Zion was very impressive. I kind of got tired of Neo and Smith constantly taking runs at each other at the end though. I mean, how many times do we really need to see that? And Smith wants to win, right? So why not have all the Smiths gang up on Neo?

I agree with the earlier post that the message (that I got) out of ReLoaded was that choice and free will were all an illusion. The machines were in complete control. Why would they now allow humans to free themselves and revolt against them? It was pretty clear to me that the machines could wipe out the human resistance any time they wanted to. It really was no contest.

The end really did this movie in. Smith was mean and confident. Suddenly he says he remembers the situation he was in, and that he's supposed to say "Every beginning had an end". Why did he suddenly show some confusion and doubt? It's not really clear if Neo really is treading new ground, or if everything that's happening is supposed to happen.

Why was Neo in limbo at the train station at the beginning? He's the one, he should'nt be trapped like that. I mean, he can stop machines in the real world just by thinking about it, he rocks in the matrix, but somehow he's helpless in the train station? Going to the Merv for help was the only way to free Neo? So a program was controlling the One?

I was most impressed with Seraph. He's one cool dude. But I'm sure he would have fought Smith. Why didn't they show any of this?

I guess Merv deleted the twins since they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn in ReLoaded. At least we saw the other, more important twins (Monica Belluci's). I would have liked to see her have more of a role. She helped Trinity, Morph and Neo in ReLoaded. In revolutions, she was just sitting there.

I think the story could have been so much better if they had explored the matrix-within-a-matrix concept. Who knows, that may still be the case. Or even better, if everyone was a machine/android. I read this possibility somewhere. What if humans had acutally won the war and they created a simulation for the machines under their control to make them think they had won the war? Neo et al could have been androids trying to break free from the matrix controlled by humans.

I'll have to re-evaluate when the DVD comes out, but this movie posed more questions than it really answered.
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post #94 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 07:31 AM
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Another issue I have is with the last episode of the Animatrix DVD. That episode opened the door to a lot of very cool possibilites for Revolutions and they just ignored it.

I could see an anime Matrix 4 set another 100 years in the future where Neo et al. have become legend and the 'peace' is wavering. Maybe that's what the last anime episode is, it's not before Revolutions, but it's 100 years after Neo. The peace is crumbling and there are now many more free humans in the real world and they're converting machines to their side using their own Matrix. 'To a machine, all reality is virtual'.

Ok, the Wachowski brother & sister team can get me back with something like that.

I want to love Revolutions but Matrix I set the bar too high.
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post #95 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 07:38 AM
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"A comment about the Oracle losing her shell: Since animatrix explains that the two parents of the child sell out the place of the old Oracle shell, does the Revolutions do that at all? I had no idea until I read this here that those parents were the ones that caused the oracle to lose her former body."

Can somebody elaborate on this? I've been wondering about the parents and the child so any more information would be appreciated. I don't remember them from The Animatrix or anything about the Oracle's body.

"Being unable to assume an initial premise with any tolerable degree of accuracy, I am loathe to assert a conclusion fearful lest I should err."
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post #96 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 07:40 AM
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Also, whatever happened to Roy Jones, Jr., Ballard in Reloaded and the videogame Enter the Matrix? I was ready to see him throw some fists.

"Being unable to assume an initial premise with any tolerable degree of accuracy, I am loathe to assert a conclusion fearful lest I should err."
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post #97 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by eweiss
USA Today renders its negative verdict:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/...x-review_x.htm

And based on 63 reviews, rottentomatoes http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/TheM...tions-1127201/ gives it a .... 38%?!?!

That means it's a HUGE STINKER!!
With nearly twice as many reviews in today (115), the tomatometer average has DROPPED another point to only 37% favorable. That's ... not ... too ... good. Some of these reviews:

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/ima...oes/rotten.gif "What is the Matrix?, the first film asked. This film answers that. The Matrix is the marketing software that encourages movies like this to be made. And it must be disabled."
-- Stephen Whitty, NEWARK STAR-LEDGER

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/ima...oes/rotten.gif "With The Matrix Revolutions, the Wachowski brothers have managed to pull off something nearly impossible. They've made a movie about the end of the world that leaves us entirely indifferent to the outcome."
-- Chris Vognar, DALLAS MORNING NEWS

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/ima...oes/rotten.gif "The Matrix Revolutions sucks."
-- Peter Travers, ROLLING STONE

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/ima...oes/rotten.gif "Reloaded was certainly a lumpy, gaseous treatise of a movie, but viewers of Revolutions may find themselves looking back on it fondly."
-- A.O. Scott, NEW YORK TIMES
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post #98 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 07:52 AM
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A post from another forum, which I found interesting (the guy watched Revolutions three times in a row):

"1. The Ramma Chandra, his wife, and sati are programs from OUTSIDE the matrix simulation world. Yes, thats right. He is a program that controls the recycling of the pods in the real world. He was not designed within the simulation known as the matrix. His wife is actually a program that creates software of some form. Watch the Mobil Ave scene again. He states it as his purpose. Just like in our world, programs are used in different places throughout the matrix towers and the machine city.

2.He states that Mobil Ave is a LINK POINT/Hub to take things that come from the real world INTO the matrix that dont belong. Also notice that he and sati both say they are traveling into the matrix. she will be left there (remember he says they are saying goodbye).

3.The Merovingian has been smuggling programs into the matrix for sometime now. He uses the Mobil Ave Link Point to bring any programs he wishes in and out of the matrix simulation. The best way i can think to describe it is that the physical matrix is a giant computer running an operating system like windows. Inside the operating system is the actual matrix simulation in one folder that is running. But there are still drivers and utilities and other programs that run outside the simulation that keep the matrix going. This is how The Mero has been able to keep so many older programs alive all these years. He can hide them elsewhere and bring them back.

4.So basically, Ramma and his wife create this incredible program, sati. The firt of her kind to be created in such a way. But they know that this program has no purpose and the operating system will delete it if found. So they decide to smuggle her into The Matrix Simulation so that she may hide with the oracle. It has become commonly known to other programs outside the matrix simulation that the matrix is an excellent place to hide. (just look at all the exiles hiding)

5. Ramma makes the famous deal with Mero and the rest is history.

6. Sati is different than any other program that has entered the matrix before. She is the first program written by other programs. No system created her and therefore she is not bound by any of the parameters other programs are. She is like an unplugged human in the matrix. She has the power to bend and break the rules. She obviously has the power to reshape the matrix as she sees fit (the awesome sky shot she made for neo)

7.She represents something crucial to the next phase of the matrix and serves to show us that there is an outside world operating around the matrix simulation itself.

i hope this adds some clarity.

by the way, all this talk of her being the last exile and what that tite means is simple. Smith has taken over a good chunk of the matrix by this time and has the knowledge of Sati's arrival by assumably assimilating someone who knew of her. He calls her the last exile because under Smith's new matrix EVERYONE will be assimilated and no one will get the option of exile. Its almost a joke to him. He knows he has the power. "

Wasn't there a recycling pod in Zion? Where Neo and the councillor had their chat about how man need machines to survive?
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post #99 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 07:55 AM
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I havn't seen the movie yet and from what I have heard I think I'm going to be a little downed by the movie. I was hoping for some closure as well. I will check it out this weekend and make my own decision. This movie must be more confusing than I have imagined, I mean, how can Neo see orange code in the "real" world and control machines. Doen't that mean that there is a Matrix inside of a matrix. I mean there are two different colors to distinguish the programs. I am going off what other people have said, so I will comment later once I have seen it.

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post #100 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 07:56 AM
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I read in an interview with the stars that they were pretty clueless about the movie. The Wachowskis told them what to do in each scene, but the overall story or reason was not disclosed to them.

I wonder what Laurence and Keanu and Carrie thought when they first saw the completed REVOLUTIONS and understood (or tried to understand) what the story was?
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post #101 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 08:02 AM
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I can't believe there's even any debate at all about this. Everything was wrapped up, and all the philosophical debate turns out completely moot. Everything was fact, there's no underlying truth or allegory, and the 'war is over'.

Simply put, man and machine now have a deal. Machines don't bother us, we don't bother them. People plugged into the Matrix (not some fake reality that doesn't exist PEOPLE!), if they CHOOSE to reject the programming, are free to go. If they CHOOSE the matrix, like Cypher did in the first movie, they are free to live in the virtual reality of the Matrix and provide the machines with power. It's that simple.

Smith got enhanced powers and knowledge when he took over the Oracle, which is why Neo couldn't defeat him. But, as an above poster said, he was plugged directly into the Matrix (not hacked in as per usual) so when Smith took over Neo, the 'Deus Ex Machina' was able to absorb Smith's code, and subsequently destroy the other Smiths as well. Just like undestanding a virus in order to destroy it.

There's no second matrix, ya weirdos. Neo wasn't seeing code, he was seeing machine presence (or something of that nature) he couldn't see trinity, thus there's no machine presence in her. Duh. For the bagillionth time, he gained this ability when he reached the source and spoke with the architect. 'The process has altered your consiousness.....you remain irrevocably human'.

The whole thing got completely wrapped up, and all these speculations from before were pretty much meaningless. Time to let it go. The story actually ended up closing very simply, in the only real manner it could, and per your usual anime ending. (See ghost in the shell's ending for the same type deal). Typical 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em' deal, which actually fits with the animatrix shorts actually written by the Wachowski Brothers, the Renaissance ones. I really can't understand why anyone would have any questions left after watching Revolutions. Heck, even the title says it all: everything turned around and went back to the way it was.
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post #102 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 08:08 AM
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Gnollo,

If you still think that Zion is part of the Matrix after watching Revolutions and hearing the cast themselves say this is not the answer, you're welcome to live in delusional fantasy land, but there is nothing in the film to support your view at all.


Quote:
"what about the ones that want to be free from the Matrix"
He's talking ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL INSIDE THE MATRIX! DUH!

Quote:
That's not the way I see it. The Matrix is an extension, a part of the machine world. Smith got out of control, had a life and a mind of his own. Neo helped create Smith. Neo could stop him. His price was Peace. The Machines supported neo in desperation (seeing their end looming on the horizon as they were facing Smith's destructive rampage), agreed to peace, and restored the Matrix into balance - a "better" balance, one might say.
Joshua, everything the Architect said in Reloaded was true! The Matrix had to be Reloaded or it would suffer a catastrophic failure. We saw that happening at the end of Revolutions. Neo's body was sent to the source to Reload the Matrix. I don't know why that isn't completely obvious.

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post #103 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gnollo
David, I am glad to read that you still don't want to see what is staring you in the face: the Real world is just part of the matrix.

I hate to say, I told you so, but as you can see in my post following your earlier post, a sentinel crashes through the Logo and you can see with "Neo's sight" in its caracteristic orange code, how the sentinel goes through Neo's electronic body.
Yeah. I was right... it sucks doesn't it?
That's what I was speculating at the end of Reloaded. However, as far as I'm concerned, the case hasn't been made conclusively in Revolutions. Again, there could be a long debate on this, but, keep in mind the directors are versed in various Eastern and Western philosophies and religions, in a "Zen", New Age kind of way. In our "real" world,
some speak of "auras", energectic fields, all being energy, miracles, avatars, saviors, etc.
So, the debate about what's real and what's not can be extended further here. I believe the directors' ("authors'") point implies also says the "real" world is some kind of Matrix, but not necessarily a machine-software-encoded one...
Quote:

It is code, and it is orange. The code in the matrix is green.
You clearly see how when Bane is hit by the crowbar his electronic body vanishes, is destroyed.

You are probably going to tell me that since Neo has touched the source, he can see Bane's code INSIDE A HUMAN BEING. Right.
He can also unmaterialize the Sentinel and let it go through the windshield (if you notice the windshield is only cracked, not broken... I guess you could call it a reverse dejavue, where the glass repairs itself after letting the sentinel through)...
You are probably also going to tell us that obviously the sentinel just bounced off the windscreen, cracking it, and that the electronic version of it going trough an orange looking neo (its code, as the real world, is just "the other world" in the Oracle's words) is just another trick from the W brothers to confuse us.


Following what I wrote above, maybe it is time to question what the "real" world is. Maybe it is time to question the nature of "miracles". Maybe it is time to consider matter and energy, all being one overall substance, like water and ice -and vapor...

Quote:
Morpheus is the shadow of himself. He is the man who believed, and now believes no more. Right at the end, as the sentinels leave he asks "please tell me this is real": it is like the cry of a man who has just realise he has been suckered....

The Oracle meets the Architect...[I need a transcript of that conversation... I could be confused here].
She asks him: "what about the ones that want to be free from the Matrix"
He says"They will be freed, I keep my promises, I am not human".
If they were in Zion, already unplugged, why would they need to be freed?
Unless Zion now does not exist anymore, because the Matrix has been reloaded... and Zion is no more, just like the "real" world. In the Matrix Online game there is no Zion btw.

Then Sati asks the Oracle: "are we going to see Neo again?"
The Oracle: "Something tells me we will see him one day".
Eheheheh.... One number 7... or perhaps Smith number 7?
It makes sense now that the Matrix is reloaded to expect a new Smith and a new One to emerge. It is a Loop after all, with a few changes here and there (the Oracle seems to promote change, while the Architect duty is to balance that change... like the eternal battle between form and substance in Art).


Or Yin and Yang. Positive and negative. Add "neutral" and now there's a trinity... Guys, there's a lot in there to be "read": all names, down to the ships' names like The Logos. ..This is definitely a metaphysical "treatise" of sorts. And "Revolution" does imply change and full circle. It is a return to the beginning yet there have been some deep changes. Where is Neo? Who is Neo? As he can travel between (energetic) worlds, one can speculate his "essence" (spirit) is still alive and well and could manifest again, as needed, as messiahs do...
Quote:

Too much for me to really analyze yet. I will post a whole Matrix theory once I have gotten hold of the Revolutions script. If I find it I will post it.
For now a few snippets to start some discussion on really the question that is still unanswered: WHYISTHEMATRIX.

I think we have worked out that the two worlds are both virtual.

My Revolutions review? A masterpiece.
Uh, let's just agree that there is too much for you too analyze (yet?).:D

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post #104 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 08:17 AM
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The end really did this movie in. Smith was mean and confident. Suddenly he says he remembers the situation he was in, and that he's supposed to say "Every beginning had an end". Why did he suddenly show some confusion and doubt? It's not really clear if Neo really is treading new ground, or if everything that's happening is supposed to happen.
That's because that particular Smith was once the Oracle. Did you notice when he assimilated her that he seemed troubled? The Smith at the end spoke some of the Oracle's words and was confused by it because the Oracle was subsuming his program. When the Smiths were deleted at the end the Oracle was lying on the ground in the rain where the Smith body had been. Again, don't know why this should have been confusing.

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post #105 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zinzan


It's very hard to know what to make of it all. Sure, I don't mind a bit of open endedness, I'd even welcome it (don't want everything in a neat little package, that'd be too Hollywood, very boring)....but its got so much unanswered stuff in the end....it's just crazy.

One very dissappointed fan. Who's with me in pretending the sequels never happened? :
No need to pretend. It's ok to be confused, to wonder, question and search. This is a movie, but what about life? Don't tell me we all do not have lots of unanswered questions left? ;)
Anyway, how one feels about the Matrix Trilogy or Revolutions can stand as what it is. I enjoy sitting with it all. All the questions and the wondering. I enjoy the insights and "answers" that come from it... If a "movie" can accomplish that for me, then it goes on my list of "great movies"....

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post #106 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 08:21 AM
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There's no second matrix, ya weirdos. Neo wasn't seeing code, he was seeing machine presence (or something of that nature) he couldn't see trinity, thus there's no machine presence in her. Duh. For the bagillionth time, he gained this ability when he reached the source and spoke with the architect. 'The process has altered your consiousness.....you remain irrevocably human'.
Thank you for being the voice of reason here.

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post #107 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gnollo
Somehow it feels like the W brothers sort of worked out that half of the fans wanted a happy ending (with the humans freed and Neo and Trinity hugging and kissing on a beach), and the other half only cared for an explanation of the reasons behind the frigging matrix (where does the matrix stop): they decided in the end to surprise/disappoint everyone.
I think it will take time for the disappointment to vanish, so we can coolly evaluate their work in the Matrix I-II-III as a complete work.
Agreed. Time is needed. And that's cool. I don't agree about the "trying to please the fans" bit... And what is the true source of disappointment? Having one's EXPECTATIONS UNMET. Such is life. But I would argue in favor of the Wachowski brothers: they had a vision, a message perhaps; meeting everybody's expectations was not their goal -other than making a great piece of filmmaking, maybe...

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post #108 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JPinTO
I've slept on it now... and I reiterate my original point: Small bits have changed here and there--- but the initial premise that Matrix1 ended on have not changed at all.

- The humans are still enslaved

- The machines are still in 100% Control

- Neo's speech quoted above about "showing everybody what the matrix is" did not happen

IMO, Neo should have just taken the other door in Reloaded and Revolutions could have been a totally different movie. The machines got what they wanted: Matrix Reloaded at the cost of not destroying Zion... great, but there really is no resolution to the story. The joke is on me, because I hoped for resolution. Does anyone really care that Zion was saved--- when humanity remains enslaved and the machines remain 100% in control?
However Freed humans and people of Zion will no longer be hunted. That to me is important.

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post #109 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by David F
Gnollo,

If you still think that Zion is part of the Matrix after watching Revolutions and hearing the cast themselves say this is not the answer, you're welcome to live in delusional fantasy land, but there is nothing in the film to support your view at all.

Hahahaha.
You know, I am not the Oracle, but I KNEW you were going to say that.
Let's just agree to disagree, just like when you guys explained to me that the scene where the "energy" goes through Neo in the Logos, it was not actually going to happen after the scene where the sentinel crashes against the Logos windscreen.
I guess I can only hope for a W bros commentary to convince you ;) [I have a feeling that even that probably would not be enought to cast a doubt on your IT IS A WRAP frame of mind]. I on the other hand don't want to accuse anyone of being delusional.
I would just like someone to have a decent conversation, and explain to me how do you explain an object, that is probably over a ton of metal, can vaporize into energy and go through a man, that is what you say Neo is, body. But of course, let's just write gnollo off because he is delusional.
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post #110 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 08:42 AM
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One other thing I would like to state and point out and you can flame me all you want for this, but anyone that was expecting a happy ending from all this was deluding themselves. I could tell from the very first movie that there was no way the humans could ever WIN. Can you imagine what would happen if all of a sudden 6 billion people got released into that hell hole of the real world? How would they eat, get shelter, clothed or anything? It wouldn't happen and it wouldn't work.

A truce was the best thing that could happen. People that want out (1%) can get out, and all others stay in living there unknowing lives in the Matrix.

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post #111 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by JPinTO
I've slept on it now... and I reiterate my original point: Small bits have changed here and there--- but the initial premise that Matrix1 ended on have not changed at all.

- The humans are still enslaved

- The machines are still in 100% Control

- Neo's speech quoted above about "showing everybody what the matrix is" did not happen

IMO, Neo should have just taken the other door in Reloaded and Revolutions could have been a totally different movie. The machines got what they wanted: Matrix Reloaded at the cost of not destroying Zion... great, but there really is no resolution to the story. The joke is on me, because I hoped for resolution. Does anyone really care that Zion was saved--- when humanity remains enslaved and the machines remain 100% in control?
-The humans are still enslaved?... Maybe, but, what Neo represented and examplified was free will... CHOICE. Based on the exchange between the Oracle and the Architect, from "now on", those who choose to leave the Matrix out of free will, because of that "X" factor within all -free will and human consciousness aspiring to be "more" or something else (something by the way that puzzled Agent Smith into self doubt and paralyzing introspection). remember, not everybody is ready or willing to leave the Matrix. After all, on some level, Zion can be very depressing reality. but there, you have hope for more. And now, with the peace in place, perhaps it can be an even greater hope?

-The Machines are still 100% in control?... Of the Matrix? Well, no. People have left. People will now be allowed to leave should they "awaken" and desire to do so. The machines did not control the Sixth Anomaly (Neo) as expected. There is a sense of cooperation needed bewteen the two "species". A sense that was sealed, emphasized by Neo's saving of both Zion and the Machine world... Maybe this wasn't the "hoped for", black and white ending, but there are a lot of elements that are radically different. Definitely a greater sense of freedom and hope for the human race, wouldn't you say?

-About Neo's speech: Neo did learn more about the "nature" of things as the trilogy progressed. Things are still evolving. There will be a next "revolution" an evolutionary step. Perhaps Neo now understads there needs to be a process and yielded to that fact?... Either way, I don't see it as a complete contradiction.

The resolution could be seen as the ongoing process, the hope that human free will represents, and definitely, the strength and essence that Love is... Choosing the other door would have been a machine's choice. And probably the end of Zion, in the lessening of Neo's true spirit and strength... Neo is the Messiah here.

Joshua
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post #112 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by JPinTO
I'm not sure what your hinting at... but everything in the Matrix was green, EXCEPT for Seraph. Which means???
Well, simply, the hint is that the "real" world is more than meets the eyes. Neo truly starts to see when he becomes physically blind... You see, it was easy for everyone to accept all the fantastic concepts in the Matrix because it was the Matrix - a software based, machine created reality. Now we are stretched to consider the nature of "our" reality. So now the metaphor of Matrix I is brought closer to the non-metaphor in Matrix III into a more direct statement on our world, our lives (as I see it, of course, or as it is often said, IMHO).
Seraph is another story. I haven't thought about him much. But the name as well as the Merovingian's comments (which I believe might have been in French) imply he is different from all others in the Matrix; an "angel with clipped wings", selfless and dedicated to the Oracle -who seems to serve all and cares about all as One -humans machines and beyond...
Much to consider...:) Really, really cool :D .

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post #113 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 09:01 AM
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Revolution=A single complete turn (axial or orbital).
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post #114 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by hynek
I think the W. brothers owe James Cameron an apology. Big ripoff from ALIENS going on. I can't believe that the W.'s can get away with stealing material from other sci fi movies. Its a lame movie, rent it. Does this look familler? LOL

And you dont think he stole it from JAPANESE ANIMATORS??? Come on.. give me a break.. The Brothers have stated a gagillion times that their primary influence was the JAPANESE art form witch is "ANIME". That is where the APU's come from..


Some of you people that over think, make me puke...

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post #115 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by TreyCarr
Some of you people that over think, make me puke...
No flames, please. :) Mr. Rogers' memory lives in The Matrix. Be kind to one another.
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post #116 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by vincanity
I watched Revolutions last night on an IMAX screen.

Here are some random thoughts I have about the whole experience:

What is it with people who "reserve" seats for their buddies. If I arrive at 6 for a 7:00 showing, I have more right to that seat than their buddies who will be coming at around 6:50. Since I don't really go to see movies very much and I hate confrontation, I didn't say anything. But I should've told him to get lost or go get the manager. These days if you argue with people, you never know if they're going to do you in later in the parking lot.

The 5-10 minute IMAX intro was more impressive than the actual IMAX presentation of the movie. Parts of the movie were clear, but other parts were quite grainy. I appreciate my home theatre much more after last nights experience. I don't anticipate going to the theatre ever again. I can wait until the DVD is released for any future movie.


My experience of Reloaded at the Imax was fantastic. Here in Phoenix the Imax assigns seats!
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Anyways, on to the movie. I was dissappointed with it. The action was top notch, no doubt. The machines attacking Zion was very impressive. I kind of got tired of Neo and Smith constantly taking runs at each other at the end though. I mean, how many times do we really need to see that? And Smith wants to win, right? So why not have all the Smiths gang up on Neo?

I agree with the earlier post that the message (that I got) out of ReLoaded was that choice and free will were all an illusion. The machines were in complete control. Why would they now allow humans to free themselves and revolt against them? It was pretty clear to me that the machines could wipe out the human resistance any time they wanted to. It really was no contest.


Well, call it the triumph of Love and Faith. Perhaps the Machines have "grown" a soul-like consciousness, with honor and respect within it? perhaps they realize that they might need Neo or human help in general in the future, should another anomaly like agent Smith arise again?...
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The end really did this movie in. Smith was mean and confident. Suddenly he says he remembers the situation he was in, and that he's supposed to say "Every beginning had an end". Why did he suddenly show some confusion and doubt? It's not really clear if Neo really is treading new ground, or if everything that's happening is supposed to happen.


At the end, Seraph asks the oracle if she knew all along and she said know. In the world of probabilities, chances might have been high -very good-, but CHOICE and the human spirit cannot be 100% predicted... makes sense to me.

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Why was Neo in limbo at the train station at the beginning? He's the one, he should'nt be trapped like that. I mean, he can stop machines in the real world just by thinking about it, he rocks in the matrix, but somehow he's helpless in the train station? Going to the Merv for help was the only way to free Neo? So a program was controlling the One?


Maybe the train station -where people go to escape the Matrix, or the "absolute" rules of the Matrix- is more "open" to outside access than the rest of the Matrix. It seemed that given more time, Neo would have been able to "travel" out of the Limbo. He just didn't have to... Then we can also revisit The Matrix within the Matrix concept, and Neo's ability to be "free" of all Matrixes, at least to a great extent, a capacity that has kept growing throughout the whole Trilogy... [head starting to spin :D]
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I was most impressed with Seraph. He's one cool dude. But I'm sure he would have fought Smith. Why didn't they show any of this?

I guess Merv deleted the twins since they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn in ReLoaded. At least we saw the other, more important twins (Monica Belluci's). I would have liked to see her have more of a role. She helped Trinity, Morph and Neo in ReLoaded. In revolutions, she was just sitting there.


I don't think Seraph was a match for Smith, not after he became that strong. maybe he just followed the Oracle, trusting her "move"...
I think the Twins were destroyed in Reloaded. they did not see the explosion coming and did not dematerialized fast enough...
Persephone is kind of the "witness" of Love, as I see her. She feels its strength, wants it and desires its "pleasure", its feeling for herself... respects it, too. I don't recall the story of Persephone in Greek mythology... Something else to look into, another clue left behind...

Quote:

I think the story could have been so much better if they had explored the matrix-within-a-matrix concept. Who knows, that may still be the case. Or even better, if everyone was a machine/android. I read this possibility somewhere. What if humans had acutally won the war and they created a simulation for the machines under their control to make them think they had won the war? Neo et al could have been androids trying to break free from the matrix controlled by humans.


I think the Matrix-within-the-matrix concept is being explored, though in some open-ended, unspoken ways... In some philosophies, "peace", "neutrality", "the middle way" is "winning the war". It's not about eradicating, destroying. it's about change and transformation through merging, joining, balancing... I think this is what we see in Matrix.

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I'll have to re-evaluate when the DVD comes out, but this movie posed more questions than it really answered.
That's what I find so great here.

Joshua
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post #117 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by eweiss
With nearly twice as many reviews in today (115), the tomatometer average has DROPPED another point to only 37% favorable. That's ... not ... too ... good. Some of these reviews:

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/ima...oes/rotten.gif "What is the Matrix?, the first film asked. This film answers that. The Matrix is the marketing software that encourages movies like this to be made. And it must be disabled."
-- Stephen Whitty, NEWARK STAR-LEDGER

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/ima...oes/rotten.gif "With The Matrix Revolutions, the Wachowski brothers have managed to pull off something nearly impossible. They've made a movie about the end of the world that leaves us entirely indifferent to the outcome."
-- Chris Vognar, DALLAS MORNING NEWS

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/ima...oes/rotten.gif "The Matrix Revolutions sucks."
-- Peter Travers, ROLLING STONE

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/ima...oes/rotten.gif "Reloaded was certainly a lumpy, gaseous treatise of a movie, but viewers of Revolutions may find themselves looking back on it fondly."
-- A.O. Scott, NEW YORK TIMES
Movie critics...:rolleyes: often too blase, too jaded, too brainy to really get it... They're in a matrix of their own... They probably would not have missed this movie for the world. So make up your own mind. it wouldn't be the first time a critically-panned movie becomes a classic.

Joshua
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post #118 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 09:30 AM
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I will appologize.. I was just upset at the utter lack of responsible thought.... ;)

What was once tame is now wild.
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post #119 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I think gnollo has made some excellent points and isn't deluded. Sure there will be some confusion regarding certain aspects until we have a chance to really examine what happened in the film, but it's clear that the Wachowski's did not want to shoot down MWAM theory. When Morpheus asks "is this real?", that is the W Bros telling us it is valid to keep asking these questions. The W's also leaped over the issue of whether the "real" is an illusion with the speech Rama Kandra gives to Neo in Mobil Ave. Rama tells Neo in so many words that what really matters is how he feels and acts on his feelings. Programs can love, can feel they have a karma and act on it. Whether or not there was a higher "ultimate reality", doesn't change that he loved Trinity, even if they were both programs and were designed to be in love. I'm not saying they were programs, just that Rama's speech would be just as valid in that reality and probably a lot more profound, which maybe is what the W's were trying to tell us...
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post #120 of 740 Old 11-06-2003, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joshua
Movie critics...:rolleyes: often too blase, too jaded, too brainy to really get it... They're in a matrix of their own... They probably would not have missed this movie for the world. So make up your own mind. it wouldn't be the first time a critically-panned movie becomes a classic.
I, too, can't believe that the Wachowskis would squander what they started with THE MATRIX so badly that the finale would be thumbs-downed 2:1 by the critics.

I remember when SGT. PEPPER first came out, some well-known critic (NEW YORKER?) panned it -- and later wrote a follow-up review praising it. Movies like IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE did poorly at the box office and I think review-wise. I think a few viewings might raise reviewers' opinions. But, I haven't seen it yet. Those on this thread who like it seem to think that those who don't like it are missing seeing/understanding some things.
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