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post #181 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Latest:

1) Hollow Man SB
2) Shrek
3) Lion King
4) Star Wars AotC *
5) Matrix Reloaded
6) Fargo *
7) The Pledge
8) Vertical Limit SB
9) Star Ship Troopers SB
10) Hulk
11) Toy Story 1
12) Toy Story 2
13) Freddy vs Jason
14) Panic Room SB *
15) Finding Nemo
16) Desperado SB
17) Seabiscuit
18) Monsters Inc
19) Training Day
20) X2
21) North By Northwest
22) Dinosaur
23) Pitch Black
24) The One SB
25) Tomb Raider 2
26) Lost In Space
27) Rules of Engagement
28) Blade
29) Blade II
30) Terminator III
31) A Bugs Life
32) Sunset Boulevard
33) Final Destination II
34) The Rock Criterion
35) Braveheart
36) The Insider
37) The Bad and the Beautiful
38) Rebecca
39) Seven SE
40) Thirteen Ghosts
41) The Fast and the Furious
42) Fellowship of the Rings EE
43) Two Towers EE
44) Driven
45) Unbreakable *
46) Patriot SB
47) Last of the Mohicans
48) Cradle 2 the Grave
49) 2 Fast 2 Furious
50) The Benjamins
51) Notting Hill
52) Momento SE

Please critique the list !!!!!!

Please note: Asterisk indicates one vote for removal of title from list ,two two votes for same , three votes will result in removal from reference list.

I put an asterisk beside AotC but I want to say that I saw this in IMAX and the soft scenes were soft in IMAX despite the fact that it was jaw dropping overall. I personally feel that for lack of EE , blacks that are as black as it gets on DVD, color saturation that causes most DVDs to pail, with print cleanliness that is unsurpassed make it one that would give me pause about this list being worth much if it gets bumped.....just my take.


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post #182 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 02:15 PM
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I also see the white pinholes in Braveheart. I hope one day there will be a new edition of this movie because it is probably one of my favorite movies. While Saving Private Ryan is my vote for the best sounding movie ever, it is not reference quality for video, but it wasn't made to be. Still if I'm showing my home theater to a newbie that is the first disc I reach for. It's 1:85 aspect, sounds great with three powered subs, and they all think it looks great because they are not use to a 8' wide screen.

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post #183 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by ckolchak
just to see how good the Asterisk system works,
can i nominate The Great Escape?
Yes, you may and it's sort of like the old heavyweight champion that you see through rose colored glasses. You remember how great he was and overlook his flaws but a 2.55:1 nonanamorphic DVD would be a dark horse. Do you want me to place one asterisk for me and one for you as I post it ?:p

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post #184 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 02:33 PM
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Don't bother Art, as my asterisk gets it off the list before it even has a chance to get there. :D

We'll just have to sit tight and wait to see what the new special edition release with a new anamorphic transfer will look like.

--Jerome
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post #185 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 02:35 PM
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A couple of dvd's not on the list that maybe should be are

Mars Attacks
Animatrix
Mummy
The Mummy Returns
Pearl Harbor se.....looks fantastic on my 110 inch screen
Scorpion King
True Romance directors cut
Open Range
Ready to Rumble

For sound quality only if there is a sound quality only category.

Way of the Gun
TheLong Kiss Goodnight
The Hunted
Wild Things....... not that the video was bad,it just did not equal the quality of some of the actresses:D
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post #186 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 02:56 PM
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I have to agree with Art about Aotc. There are soft scenes but the movies doesn't have that large of a digital look. There are scenes where it looks digital but for the most part it was a very clean transfer.

Art, you mentioned that Aotc has blacks that are as black as blacks can get on dvd. If any of you haven't seen Underworld I suggest that you do. Now that movie has the deepest blacks that I have seen from a dvd. I believe that if one wants to test how well your display can display blacks, use Underworld!!!!

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post #187 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
We'll just have to sit tight and wait to see what the new special edition release with a new anamorphic transfer will look like.
much better than the original disc but ultimately nothing special, unfortunately.
i've had the R4 for over a yr now, and its clear that the film needs a restoration.
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post #188 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AFH
I have to agree with Art about Aotc. There are soft scenes but the movies doesn't have that large of a digital look. There are scenes where it looks digital but for the most part it was a very clean transfer.

Art, you mentioned that Aotc has blacks that are as black as blacks can get on dvd. If any of you haven't seen Underworld I suggest that you do. Now that movie has the deepest blacks that I have seen from a dvd. I believe that if one wants to test how well your display can display blacks, use Underworld!!!!
Have Underworld and love it but Aotc looks like it was digitised to look film like.
It may be a great transfer from the original, but that being the case, I have to disagree whith Mr. Lucas on his decision to not make the movie more razor sharp like Bad Boys for instance.

If I were to pick a movie to show off picture quality.....Aotc would be far down the list for me.

Maybe instead of deleting the movies whith 3 votes, they should be moved farther down the list instead.
That way the most popular votes are farther up on the list, and in the end, the best of the best will still be towards the top and the rest will still be represented as some of the best and everyone is happy.

Just a suggestion as I am checking the list to find a few gems I don't already own as I am sure others are.
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post #189 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 03:21 PM
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well, i agree about the positive comments on AOTC.
i saw a digital showing of it at the Ziegfield and the dvd does a great job of replicating the qualities i saw.
the purity and intensity of some of the colors especially make it wonderful demo material , imo.
and i suspect that the 'softer' look to some of the live action was necessary to blend them more seemlessly with the cgi backdrops.



hate to do it, but another couple of discs i consider reference are Below and From Hell.
some people have had complaints about these but i can't remember what they are.
in particular with Below which is 1.85 AR, i look at that and feel absolutely no pull to throw money down on something like a DVHS player.
if all films, especially new films could look as good i would be happier than a pig in slop.
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post #190 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 03:29 PM
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I have to agree with ATOC being reference quality. I think the softening might have been used to make some of the computer graphic effects blend in better. I used to use the sharpness control in my VP to compensate, but have since gained an awareness of EE, and think that the pristine quality of this film definately earns it a place on the list. The sound quality certainly puts it there as well, one of my favorite Demo scenes is the asteroid battle sequence.

So...how many positive reinforcements does it take to erase an asterisk :)

Underworld looked good, but I would have to see it again to decide if it belongs on the list. Pitch Black gets my vote for King of Blacks!

I have got to go look at the various Mummy movies and sequels to see if I think they belong. I seem to remember EE on those.

Phil
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post #191 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 03:32 PM
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Good one ckolchak, I forgot about Below. From the director of Pitch Black, he sure does have an appreciation of a detailed and solid picture. I will double check that for EE tonight, but I am thinking it does belong on the list as well.

Phil
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post #192 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 03:45 PM
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I agree that AOTC may be slightly soft, but I don't think it is the
worst one out of 52! How 'bout we "lock" The List and whittle it
down. I also think the animation should be made one entry, or
a side list for non-film viewing. Once The List is down to 10-15 then
"challenges" of new titles can be made. It will be alot easier then to judge.
However getting to 10-15 will be a challenge. This weekend when I
get a chance I'll have to rewatch some of the discs I have on the list
to freshen my memory.

Phil, IIRC, Below had some EE.

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
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post #193 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 04:22 PM
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Larry, I have heard Below had EE, but I just ran through a few scenes and I am having a very hard time seeing it. I also popped in Starship Troopers, and it looked great!

Phil
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post #194 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 04:32 PM
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I agree about AOTC, it's definitely reference to these eyes.

I'm telling you, Jason X looks absolutely stunning as well. After doing a little reading, I found that the film was scanned in frame by frame and completed entirely in the digital realm (Thanks DVDFile!). No wonder it looks so good. Anyways, I think it belongs on the list. Anyone else seen it?
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post #195 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Latest:

1) Hollow Man SB
2) Shrek *
3) Lion King
4) Star Wars AotC *
5) Matrix Reloaded
6) Fargo *
7) The Pledge
8) Vertical Limit SB
9) Star Ship Troopers SB
10) Hulk
11) Toy Story 1
12) Toy Story 2
13) Freddy vs Jason
14) Panic Room SB *
15) Finding Nemo
16) Desperado SB
17) Seabiscuit
18) Monsters Inc
19) Training Day
20) X2
21) North By Northwest
22) Dinosaur
23) Pitch Black
24) The One SB
25) Tomb Raider *
26) Lost In Space
27) Rules of Engagement
28) Blade
29) Blade II
30) Terminator III
31) A Bugs Life
32) Sunset Boulevard
33) Final Destination II
34) The Rock Criterion
35) Braveheart
36) The Insider
37) The Bad and the Beautiful
38) Rebecca
39) Seven SE
40) Thirteen Ghosts
41) The Fast and the Furious
42) Fellowship of the Rings EE *
43) Two Towers EE*
44) Driven
45) Unbreakable *
46) Patriot SB
47) Last of the Mohicans
48) Cradle 2 the Grave
49) 2 Fast 2 Furious
50) The Benjamins
51) Notting Hill
52) Momento SE
53) Mars Attacks
54) Animatrix
55) Pearl Harbor SE
56) Scorpion King
57) True Romance directors cut
58) Ready to Rumble
59) Below


Please critique the list !!!!!!

Please note: Asterisk indicates one vote for removal of title from list ,two two votes for same , three votes will result in removal from reference list.


I'm not going to add either of the Mummy titles since they have quite a bit of ringing and they are soft in many places.

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post #196 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 04:55 PM
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Art,

I'm really starting to have doubts about how some of this stuff is getting on the list. For example, Open Range, as a great a movie as it is, is nowhere near reference quality and really has no business on a reference quality list. It is fairly soft and looks pretty heavily filtered in the high frequencies to me.

This is precisely why I suggested a procedure of nomination and confirmation. It seems to me that it takes much less to get a DVD on the list than it does to get it off. Perhaps a balance needs to be struck.

--Jerome
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post #197 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 05:06 PM
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I agree with Jerome about Open Range. It also might be a good idea to require a nomination of 3 to get a title on the list (except for my titles of course :) )

Phil
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post #198 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 05:10 PM
 
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I don't consider Tomb Raider that impressive to be on the list, neither the first or second one impressed me that much as far as picture quality goes, it was good but not what id call top knotch reference, also i have Last Of the Mohicans very good picture quality but reference nahhh it could be more detailed during the waterfall sequence, also Fellowship of the Ring has some detail problems and Shrek for me is just a little too soft in places.
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post #199 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 05:29 PM
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Yeah...I loved the movie but the transfer could have been a bit more. So consider this another vote against Open Range.
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post #200 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 05:36 PM
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Phil, I don't remember much about Below. I remember it looking
great and some others mentioning EE. I don't believe the EE was
"rampant", but how do we draw the line(s)?

I thought Open Range looked good, but there were some scenes
that just didn't look "quite right" to me. The background looked "funky"
at times. A negative from me too.

Mars Attacks - Nope. Love the movie, but it's not reference. IIRC all
of the Austin Powers movies are better quality wrt PQ and rich
colors. The AP movies aren't even on the list. I almost nominated
the last one - Goldmember - but I haven't had a chance to revisit
it yet.

True Romance: One of my top 5 movies of all time, but I don't recall
it being reference quality PQ. I'll check it out again also.

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
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post #201 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 05:39 PM
 
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If you want the ultimate ten titles then the line which must be drawn is no edge enhancement allowed at all and exceptional detail and clarity, if a film had grain at the cinema then it should have grain on dvd.
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post #202 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by jsaliga
Art,

I'm really starting to have doubts about how some of this stuff is getting on the list. For example, Open Range, as a great a movie as it is, is nowhere near reference quality and really has no business on a reference quality list. It is fairly soft and looks pretty heavily filtered in the high frequencies to me.

This is precisely why I suggested a procedure of nomination and confirmation. It seems to me that it takes much less to get a DVD on the list than it does to get it off. Perhaps a balance needs to be struck.

--Jerome
That wasn't so tough. Open range is already gone. My quandary is if I haven't seen it I'm forced to give it the benefit of the doubt until I hear otherwise. If any of you disagree with the additions speak up as you did with open range. Lets give this a little longer and of course there is latitude in cases like AotC which would be gone by now with three thumbs down. I think that the list may start to slow pretty soon but please lets hear it if you see more titles here which do not deserve to be here. I've spoken to Bjoern Roy and he committed that he would come over and help us reduce the list. I think he has like three reference discs total that will cut the mustard with him.:D

Art

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post #203 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by FoxyMulder
If you want the ultimate ten titles then the line which must be drawn is no edge enhancement allowed at all and exceptional detail and clarity, if a film had grain at the cinema then it should have grain on dvd.
Foxy,
If we wanted 10 out of 10 only you are right but I'd be willing to bet that there aren't any DVDs with zero EE so I think we are simply going to have to ease a little on this one.

Art

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post #204 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 06:21 PM
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Art,

Since you have asked for nominees to be "9 or 10" out of 10 ONLY; maybe we can allow for a "10" list. Now, going by the definition suggested by FoxyMulder or the grade breakdown I suggested, I would agree with you and say that I don't think we would have any DVDs that would qualify. Yep, you guys read that right, I said zero! As in none! At least not after review anyway. :D But, I see no reason folks shouldn't be allowed to nominate a DVD as a 10.

Letting folks nominate "10s" would bring on the toughest critics and you should receive your culling that we so desperately need.

Was there any disapproval of the grade breakdown that was suggested? Is there any tweaking to be done to it? I just want to know before we try to use it this weekend.
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post #205 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Dan,
As usual , I appreciate your thoughts. I've never seen a flawless DVD so that's why I wanted to give a little on how stringent we were. As an aside WSR has had hundreds of 4.5 and 5 out of fives ( roughly equivalent to 9 to 10 out of 10) and I know that the majority would not make our list right now.

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post #206 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 07:01 PM
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Good post, and very helpful for me right now since my current obsession is a project to build the ultimate 2-disc Home Theater Set-up and Demo disc. After starting this link awhile back: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=348448 ... and getting some excellent advice from others, I finally decided to break down my demo disc into the following four types of test chapters and then find good material for each category. Of course, many DVDs belong in multiple categories, but I tried to pigeonhole each specific DVD chapter into one category. Once I settle on my best DVD chapters for each category, I'm going to burn all of these to disc using the excellent DVD Shrink software that is freely available on the Web. - - Adam

________________

Video
V: Colors & Contrast
V: Black Levels

Audio
A: Overall Surround Effects
A: Subwoofer LFE

Audio – Overall Surround Effects
Star Wars Episode I – Phantom Menace (Chapters 21-22: Pod racing scenes)
Saving Private Ryan (Chapter 2 : Omaha Beach)
Gladiator (Chapter 2: “Hell Unleashedâ€)
Roger Waters – Live in the Flesh (Chapter 15: “Timeâ€)
Super Speedway (Chapter 11: “Mario and Michael Competeâ€)
The Matrix (Chapter 29: “Lobby Shooting Spreeâ€)
The Fifth Element (Chapter 21: the opera scene)
Star Wars Episode II – Attack of the Clones (Chapter 28: “Asteroid Chaseâ€)
Pearl Harbor (Chapter 22: “First Strikeâ€)
Behind Enemy Lines (Chapter 6: “SAM Attackâ€)
Black Hawk Down (Chapter 9: “Super Six One Downâ€)
Fight Club (Chapter 8: mid-air explosion)
Driven (Chapter 23: “Memo’s Accidentâ€)
Peter Gabriel (“The Barry Williams Show†from the Growing Up Live DVD)
The Perfect Storm
Twister


Audio – Subwoofer LFE
Jurassic Park 3 (Chapter 6: “Duel of the Dinosaursâ€)
Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring (Chapter 17: “Flight Into the Fordâ€)
Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring (Chapter: Orc river chase near end)
U-571 (Chapter 15: “Depth-Chargedâ€)
Reign of Fire (Chapter 10: “Attack!â€)
The Haunting (Chapter 17: “Bump in the Nightâ€)
Underworld
Casper


Video – Colors & Contrast
Finding Nemo
Monsters, Inc.
The Fifth Element (Chapter 9: building jump /the taxi chase)
Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring (Chapter 2: “The Shireâ€)
Vertical Limit
The Cell
Legends of the Fall
The Hulk
Spiderman
Tron


Video – Black Levels
Lord of the Rings: Two Towers (final night battle at Helm's Gate)
Lost in Space (Chapter 1: “Earthâ€)
Underworld

also....

Video – Unique Aspect Ratio
Ben Hur – (Chapter 47: Chariot Race) ... amazing 2.76 aspect ratio!
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post #207 of 1880 Old 02-04-2004, 08:46 PM
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Well I watched Fargo again tonight and would have to vote to remove it from the list. While it looks really good, there is some noticeable EE during high contrast scenes.

And then I threw in Pitch Black. Wow! It really does look spectacular.

So, another vote against Fargo and another one for Pitch Black.
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post #208 of 1880 Old 02-05-2004, 01:24 AM
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Here they are in order of pq of the 400+ dvds I own
Top 10
1. 2fast2furious (I wish better movies had this good a transfer)
2. Vertical Limit SB
3. Gattaca SB (wow)
4. Final Destination 2
5. Mask of Zorro SB
6. Matrix Reloaded (very crisp)
7. Dracula (I bet SB is even better)
8. Once upon a time in mexico
9. Jackie Brown
10. Alien Resurection (from the quadrilogy, wish it was alien)

Oh and a few of votes for sound.
1. Private Ryan
2. Cradle of life
3. Underworld

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post #209 of 1880 Old 02-05-2004, 03:31 AM
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Coral Reef Adventure (WMV disk)
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post #210 of 1880 Old 02-05-2004, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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If you want to nominate a title for the PQ list please do so. Jerome, you are right ( I have to say you usually are:D ). What I'm going to try is to have two nominations and then it gets added but still stick to the three strikes for removal. Too many nominations and some are being nominated that have no business being discussed in this thread they are so bad or are being nominated when we just removed them. So starting now to get added to the list you have to be nominated twice.

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