My Star Wars LD->DVD Saga Has Begun - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 290 Old 07-07-2004, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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No reason to use Apple over PC. In fact for brute force I think PCs are better.

Let's see. I have a total of 900 GB of Hard Drive space. Each movie takes up about 15 GB per hour on DV, so that's 60 GB. Then that must be, piece by piece, stored uncompressed, IVTC'd, and then recompressed. Uncompressed DV is about 90 GB per hour I believe. But you only need to do it in 30 minute chunks.

A single 200 GB drive should be enough to do this and have room for the final movies.
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post #272 of 290 Old 07-07-2004, 12:40 PM
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NIN74 commented:
> I just wondering if not a superb DVHS deck will make a better analog --> digital conversion? < (than DV camcorder)

It's entirely possible, and I wouldn't be surprised if it were so, especially since DV has it's own issues. When combined with the HLD-X9(!), I think you have a winner. Unfortunately, not all of us have X9's (or access to one), but I may be trying a similar approach with an LD-V8000 via composite.

- Tim

- Tim
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post #273 of 290 Old 07-07-2004, 03:15 PM
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Wow, that's a lot of disk space if you want to keep everything in digital format from start to finish. Thanks for the info.

How about your PC's spec's. Processor speed, DVD drive, audio/video capture cards.

Drew
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post #274 of 290 Old 07-07-2004, 06:15 PM
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VideoGrabber, Yes, I know. But I have two HLD-X9 and will test this in the fall.

Sound and video is not magic, it is pure physics. Physics that can be magical
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post #275 of 290 Old 07-07-2004, 09:18 PM
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I transfer some to DVD via DVHS since I already recorded on that in SD mode. Works good, you still have to encode it again bc of the higher bitrate.

Anyone know of a good DVD subtitle authoring program? I've remastered from LD a number of non english films with subtitles as well as commentary track and commentary subtitles! Most of the titling aspects of most programs suck! I've had better luck/speed subtitling the old fashioned analog way in the 1980's via an Amiga.
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post #276 of 290 Old 07-09-2004, 08:01 AM
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Great thread here!

Peter,

Was there any particular reason for using your NLE tools over AviSynth (other than you own them)? I'm in the process of doing this conversion my self and have been doing all editing, IVTC, and filtering with AviSynth with much success.

I'm now grappling with a dilemma I have with my so-so LD player (DVL-919) and whether to proceed any further until that is resolved. I have found that the 3-L comb filter is not so hot on larger format displays/PC's as I get a considerable about of dot crawl using the S-Vid out. The composite out is much improved re the dot crawl, but at a significantly softer picture. On top of that my disks are "rotting" and I would like to "restore and preserve" them on DVD before they get any worse.

T
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post #277 of 290 Old 07-09-2004, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cpc
I thought you'd want to use a composite video connection and use the 3-D Comb Filters available that are newer than what would be in the CLD-97...isn't that right?
Few questions, but let me start with this...

Peter you used composite out to DV in, correct? I've see you say so, and then I thought there was a contradiction to this.


DVD can take 44.1K PCM? No need to convert to 48K? I've never used PCM on a DVD because of the space issue...


Now for a compression optimizing question... the 2.35:1 (even anamporphic) image is centered, as we's all want, but this is off something like 7 lines from a 16 pixel boundry, You could get better compression/quality by aligning either the top or bottom edge on a 16 pixel boundry. Was this ever considered? Sure the picuture will be slightly offcenter vertically, but it has never bothererd me. =)


Did anyone try any of the following? capturing output from the display, I saw someone did discuss the elite 530 and it's comb filter, but I didn't see any results.

What about capture of SDI moded LD player to SDI capture card? Surely this would be the best, no?
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post #278 of 290 Old 07-12-2004, 08:30 PM
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Tony, I use good old substation alpha to actually time and make the subs. After that I have two options. One is to convert that directly to DVD subs using Maestro SBT, and the other is to use SSA itself to convert to SMPTE (save as captions inc option). The latter gives you more flexibility in further manipulation of the subtitles, while the former is the quick and easy way. In addition SSA has a rounding off bug, which means that all subs that start or end on :30 has to be changed so that you increment the second counter by 1, and set the frame count to :00.

Maestro SBT will take other formats than SSA (I believe even jacosub) so if you use different timing software that works fine. SSA will of course also convert quite many formats, but the conversion isn't perfect since you can't go straight from say jacosub to smpte.

/frode
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post #279 of 290 Old 07-17-2004, 01:41 AM
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Will look more into it. Thanks for the info frode.
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post #280 of 290 Old 07-27-2004, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff D
What about capture of SDI moded LD player to SDI capture card? Surely this would be the best, no?
Good idea if the video on the laserdisc was actually digital! Since laserdisc players don't have a MPEG decoder, I don't see where your going to attach the SDI chip to. It needs parallel digital video data. The best you could do is take the composite video off the LD and run it through a digital video decoder to get the required data for the SDI transmitter. Why bother if the video capture cards need to do the same thing? A high quality capture card that takes composite video is by far the best way to go in my opinion.

Another way, how bout using a Holo3DGraph card to capture? I just thought of this just now. Should yield excellent results as the card can take the composite video, deinterlace with the Faroudja DCDi chip, do the frame rate conversion to 24p, and then transfer (over the Conexiant PCI bridge) to a capture application. If you actually had enough disk space to store uncompressed video, you should end up with very very good results.

I'm gonna have to give this a try to see if its feasible.

- Jerry

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post #281 of 290 Old 07-27-2004, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Another way, how bout using a Holo3DGraph card to capture? I just thought of this just now. Should yield excellent results as the card can take the composite video, deinterlace with the Faroudja DCDi chip, do the frame rate conversion to 24p, and then transfer (over the Conexiant PCI bridge) to a capture application. If you actually had enough disk space to store uncompressed video, you should end up with very very good results.

I will test it with a H3D-II card and Pioneer HLD-X9/HLD-X0 player later on.

Sound and video is not magic, it is pure physics. Physics that can be magical
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post #282 of 290 Old 07-27-2004, 12:15 PM
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I thought the H3D didn't support capture through the FLI chip? Even if it does there's no guarantee you're going to get a perfect 24fps stream out from it. The Faroudja isn't perfect, and you'll highly likely get an extra frame here and there. That will cause audio/video synch issues if you try and play it back at a constant rate.

/frode
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post #283 of 290 Old 07-28-2004, 04:53 AM
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I think I remember see a program you could use for capturing the stream and record it. But if this does not work or works bad I'm still on for the LD -->DVHS and then into the computer.

Sound and video is not magic, it is pure physics. Physics that can be magical
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post #284 of 290 Old 07-28-2004, 09:58 AM
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NIN74: You get a chance to try it?

The FLI chip will deinterlace and process the signal before it gets transfered over the PCI bus to the video card. It does this by DMA transfer through the conexiant video to PCI bridge chip, thus the FLI processing is done allready and can be captured.

I had this working before and just thought of using it to capture LD's for DVD encoding. If I remember correctly, I turned on overlay mode in the Holo app, made my video input/config settings, and then exited the Holo app. Once the holo app is not loaded, ANY standard windows capture app that uses the WMA/DirectX APIs can access the conexiant capture chip as a capture source, which is outputting uncompressed video data being processed by the FLI chip at 480p onto the PCI bus.

Unfortunately, I am about to sell my Holo/HD-Aux card to help pay for a new external scaler. So if this works well, I won't have time to transfer my own collection. Dooooooh!

- Jerry

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post #285 of 290 Old 10-20-2004, 08:53 PM
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I never thought of the DVHS option for getting it into the computer - has anyone tried this?

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post #286 of 290 Old 10-20-2004, 10:01 PM
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Hi guys...

I'm in the midst of an extremely comprehensive Star Wars restoration project - check it out at ww w. starwarslegacy . com (I'm new, so this system won't let me post a URL)

I'm looking to borrow a serious LD player to replace my DVL-91 as the LD source, and a like-minded friend directed me here.

My studio is in the Hollywood/Burbank area...

Thanks, guys!

_Mike

Personal Homepage:
mikeverta.com
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post #287 of 290 Old 10-20-2004, 11:29 PM
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Just a couple of quick comments. These are just my opinions, and I'm nobody authoritative--just a guy who captures and encodes content to my HTPC on a daily basis.

First, I wouldn't recommend capturing with a Holo3dgraph using the Faroudja chip to deinterlace--it is going to introduce a few errors here and there. The best way to recover the original 24p remains deinterlacing *after* capture, using Donald Graft's Decomb package's telecide/decimate functionality. Additionally, if you want to correct for possible errors automatically without having to check for bad IVTC matches, you can always use KernelDeint as a postprocessor to telecide so that it will be activated if and only if residual combing is detected. A sample Avisynth script implementing this would be:

Quote:

LoadPlugin("C:\\Program Files\\AviSynth\\plugins\\Decomb.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\\Program Files\\AviSynth\\plugins\\KernelDeint.dll")
AVISource("C:\\StarWars.avi")
Telecide(order=1,guide=1,post=1,hints=true)
KernelDeint(order=1,sharp=true)
Decimate(cycle=5)
If you don't learn at least a little bit of Avisynth script-fu, or comparable techniques in professional NLE packages, any captures you make aren't going to look the absolute best they could have. The forums at Doom9.org are the best places to learn, and while I was completely mystified at first I eventually got it.

That isn't to say that you can't make good captures otherwise, but they will never look their best unless you capture to PC using lossless compression like the huffyuv codec or at least only slightly lossy codecs like 4:2:2 MJPEG, and do postprocessing with Avisynth. DV and MPEG-2 each introduce their own kinds of artifacting (esp. DV's 4:1:1 color sampling, which pixellates edges of laser blasts, lightsabers, and anything else with vivid colors), which can make Avisynth filters less optimal. Capturing with a DV or D-VHS deck may be easier and produce very acceptable results--but do you want acceptable or exceptional? :D

The final output quality will of course be limited by the quality of your source and equipment--but mostly, IMHO, by your level of committment to learning the art of video processing. The more comitted you are, the more tips you can learn about improving on deficient sources and even compensating for less-than-ideal equipment. Just my tuppence, though. ;)

Quote:
I'm in the midst of an extremely comprehensive Star Wars restoration project - check it out at ww w. starwarslegacy . com
Thanks for the link to your interesting site and project. Good luck and have fun, to you and to the other SW fans undertaking similar captures and/or "restorations." And for everyone playing this at home instead of in a studio, the Video Essentials laserdisc is your friend. :)

EDIT: BTW, to anyone capturing laserdisc/VHS/beta/etc. as a hobby--you may want to seriously consider a final output format other than DVD. Even double-layered DVD is a suboptimal format these days because it still uses ancient MPEG-2 and its low-quality DCT quantizers. Consider your archival options, now that HTPCs are so popular. You can always downconvert to DVD if your archival copy is in another format, but if your archival copy was DVD then it's the best you'll ever have...

"Via, concursus, tempus, spatium, audi me ut imperio. Screw it! Mighty forces, I suck at Latin, OK? But that's not the issue. I'm the one in charge, and I'm telling you open up, portal, now!"--Willow, *Buffy the Vampire Slayer*
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post #288 of 290 Old 10-21-2004, 01:25 AM
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Yeah I agree, my archival copies are all in lossless codec masters.
DV is an easy capture mechanism, but 4:1:1 or 4:2:0 , plus the file compression just loses too much for a great transfer... but for other people to view, DVD-9 is a good delivery mechanism.

If anyone has a high end LD player they could lend mverta for a very short period of time (just to get the capture) it would be great.

It would be a shame for so much effort to go into a restoration only to be hamstrung by a sub-optimal LD player at the start of the chain.

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post #289 of 290 Old 10-21-2004, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dokworm
Yeah I agree, my archival copies are all in lossless codec masters.
DV is an easy capture mechanism, but 4:1:1 or 4:2:0 , plus the file compression just loses too much for a great transfer... but for other people to view, DVD-9 is a good delivery mechanism.
I don't keep lossless captures for my archival copies, personally. I encode so many films and TV series from "dead media," things unlikely to ever be re-released in better quality any time soon if ever, that I'd need many more terabytes than I already have. For that last stage, after capture and supersampling and processing is done in lossless huffyuv, I use the XviD MPEG-4 encoder with the custom 6-of-9 matrix which preserves far more detail than the default matrices. Even very fine details are preserved as long as one uses such a custom matrix and a bitrate that yields around 0.25 bits/pixel. For 24p 768x576 video I use 2700kbps, for example. I chose this particular format because it's nearly indistinguishable from the original even at 4x zoom on my 100" projector, is fully compliant to ISO MPEG-4 standards (so that it will remain easily accessible virtually forever), and takes up a very reasonable amount of space such that I don't keep having to add drives. It took me long enough to afford my current 1.6 terabytes, so I have to use them well. :) It still yields better-than-DVD detail and color, but at a lower bitrate, and I can easily convert to DVD or any other format...

Final output formats are a more flexible issue, open to personal preferences and priorities. But for initial capture and processing, lossless is the only way to know you're acheiving best quality.

"Via, concursus, tempus, spatium, audi me ut imperio. Screw it! Mighty forces, I suck at Latin, OK? But that's not the issue. I'm the one in charge, and I'm telling you open up, portal, now!"--Willow, *Buffy the Vampire Slayer*
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post #290 of 290 Old 10-21-2004, 05:32 PM
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This have already been made. We used my HLD-X0 player and the PMS video PDI deluxe card Sergei Esenin recommended. The screenshots from my HLD-X9 vs HLD-X0 was from this and soon my friends will take the time and fix the 3:2/progressive. I would say that these DVD-R, that will use both layers, will be the ultimate DVD-R version of the original Star Wars. And NO, we do not sell any to other, just for out own private use as back-up for our Definitive set's.

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