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post #31 of 54 Old 08-03-2004, 07:15 AM
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So thats where the Uncle Remus book I had when I was a kid came from.


No, Disney adapted Joel Chandler Harris' adaptations of folklore, though you may be thinking of the big Golden Book like the one I had and loved, which sort of Disneyfied some of Harris' tales that weren't in the movie, in addition to the three stories that were in the movie. I still have that book in a box somewhere.

I would argue Song of the South is better than most of the recent Disney animated films, though that would also be damning with faint praise.

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post #32 of 54 Old 08-03-2004, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salmoneous
Like a Tracy Lord's porno, the mythical status of SotS is due to its being "banned", not due to inherent quality.
The Traci Lords pornos are no good? Aw crap, another myth shattered!!

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post #33 of 54 Old 08-03-2004, 11:37 AM
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FWIW,

I am also old enough to recall seeing SOTS in the theatre. It may have been the first live action movie.

I remember not liking it very much, and have no desire to see it again. OTOH, I was a child then and I don't trust the quality judgements I made at that age. I oppose censorship in any form and think it should be available. It's probably nore more racist than "Gone with the Wind."

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post #34 of 54 Old 08-03-2004, 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by Josh Z
The Traci Lords pornos are no good? Aw crap, another myth shattered!!
Well they are good enough to get you put in jail.

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post #35 of 54 Old 08-03-2004, 12:44 PM
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Well they are good enough to get you put in jail.
Only ONE of them is legal to own
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post #36 of 54 Old 08-03-2004, 12:50 PM
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I always found it ironic that Disneyland would base a ride (Splash Mountain) on a movie that almost none of their target demographic had seen or was likely to see in the near future.

It's not only Song of the South; there's a large library of Warner Merry Melodies cartoons that are not likely to see the light of day any time soon. When I was an engineer at a TV station in Memphis years ago, we had a huge library of Warner cartoon shorts on film of which a significant percentage were locked away, not to be aired.

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post #37 of 54 Old 08-03-2004, 12:57 PM
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it's my understanding that several Bugs Bunny cartoon fall into that category Mojo. All for racial pc reasons.

Personally I don't think denying the past is helpful.

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post #38 of 54 Old 08-03-2004, 02:18 PM
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The most notorius is probably "Coal Black and the Sebben Dwarves". Not sure if this one belonged to Warner or not, but whoever made it vehemently denies it now. But it does indeed exist (saw it in a college animation class a friend of a friend was teaching). This one really doesn't need to see the light of day.
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post #39 of 54 Old 08-03-2004, 10:06 PM
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I think it's a popular misconception that SOTS features "happy slaves". As I recall, the time frame of the story is several years after slavery was abolished. However, the Uncle Remus character may have BEEN a slave in the past.

I remember seeing it in the theater as a kid and being bored with the live action sequences but loving the animated stories. Odd that most kids today (and their parents if they are younger than 30 years old) see the ride and the Disneyland park areas based on this landmark Disney film and hear "Zip-a-dee-do-dah" every two minutes on so many Disney projects but have no idea where it all came from.

I guess the great 'sin' is that it shows former slaves as continuing to work on a plantation who's proprietors had probably owned some of them as slaves prior to the signing of the Emancipation Proclamation (which was not uncommon) and, horrors of horrors, they and their employers behaved in a civil manner and even pleasantly without barking hate-filled epithets at each other on a daily basis.

Why isn't SOTS available on home video? Blame Leonard Bernstein.
:D
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post #40 of 54 Old 08-04-2004, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by hitchfan
Odd that most kids today (and their parents if they are younger than 30 years old) see the ride and the Disneyland park areas based on this landmark Disney film and hear "Zip-a-dee-do-dah" every two minutes on so many Disney projects but have no idea where it all came from.
The Zip-a-dee-doo-dah scene from the movie has been included in many Disney Sing-Along video releases over the years. So, many children have actually seen it and understand the connection with Splash Mountain, but have not seen it in context of the whole movie.

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post #41 of 54 Old 08-04-2004, 10:40 AM
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I remember when Song of the South came out I was around 10 years old (dating myself I know). Even though I was very young and only saw the previews, I still remember thinking that a) this movie looks boring as hell and b) this looks really offensive to black people.

Now that I've lived in the South for awhile, I realize there might be some context and history I was missing. Still, given the changing times and attitudes, I can see where there would be conflicted viewpoints on re-releasing this one.
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post #42 of 54 Old 08-04-2004, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HTCrazy
I remember when Song of the South came out I was around 10 years old (dating myself I know). Even though I was very young and only saw the previews, I still remember thinking that a) this movie looks boring as hell and b) this looks really offensive to black people.

Now that I've lived in the South for awhile, I realize there might be some context and history I was missing. Still, given the changing times and attitudes, I can see where there would be conflicted viewpoints on re-releasing this one.

The movie was NEVER released on video in the US so it would not qualify as being a re-release.

I for one don't care if they show it in the theatre ever again but it should be on dvd.
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post #43 of 54 Old 08-04-2004, 10:01 PM
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Why not have Whoopie Goldberg do a pre-show disclaimer on a DVD release of SOTS to bring it into historic perspective?

They had no trouble using her to narrate a film attraction in the deadly dull California Adventures park about how the only thing the evil white people contributed to the settlement of California was the cruel mistreatment of Native Americans, African Americans, Asian Americans, the land, the water and most of the universe.

And that is presented several times every day.

I don't see why Disney is suddenly getting so selectively sensitive about racial stereotypes in a gentle entertainment like SONG OF THE SOUTH.
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post #44 of 54 Old 08-04-2004, 11:24 PM
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[quote]They had no trouble using her to narrate a film attraction in the deadly dull California Adventures park about how the only thing the evil white people contributed to the settlement of California was the cruel mistreatment of Native Americans, African Americans, Asian Americans, the land, the water and most of the universe. [.quote]

Hmmm, good point.
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post #45 of 54 Old 08-05-2004, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salmoneous


Like a Tracy Lord's porno, the mythical status of SotS is due to its being "banned", not due to inherent quality.
Exactly. It's PROBABLY the only reason the majority of people are even interested in seeing/owning it.
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post #46 of 54 Old 08-05-2004, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Watched this earlier on BBC 2 on British television, whats all the fuss about and where are the racist overtones because i don't see any ?

The film seemed to me to present its black actors in a good light and not in a bad way and they were shown to be intelligent perhaps more intelligent than the white plantation owners, it reminded me a little of Gone With The Wind with the plantation stuff but it was a much gentler film, i must add it isn't by any means what i would call a Disney classic, i didn't find it that enjoyable and the songs were totally forgettable as far as i was concerned.

I did a little digging and found out that the author of the original books on which Disney based this film has had most of his books if not all of them banned in America ( or at least hard to find according to the sites i visited ) perhaps the fact the author had his books banned influenced Disneys decision to not allow a DVD release.

Very forgettable film which is not the least bit racist, Uncle Remus and all the other plantation ( slave ? ) workers seem to get on well with the plantation owners who allow their son to frequent among the workers without a worry or a care in the world. I don't know much about the history of that time but i suspect it was in the interests of the owners of such plantations to foster good relations with their slave workers, i seem to recall the film Amistad told the story about how slave workers were imported from Africa and my own opinion is that sections of white america who are ashamed of their past probably would like to cover this up but i think the past should be taught so we can learn from our mistakes and not repeat them, i don't care what color a person's skin is or what language they speak or what part of the world they are from, i respect all life including animals and i'm not a hippy :) banning films like this or films like Birth of a Nation ( which is definately more racist ) is wrong, Hitler banned and wanted to burn all books because if you deny people the truth and seek to censor then you can bend and shape peoples minds and distort history, thats what political correctness seeks to do, i hope Disney sees sense and releases this film as it isn't a very good film but it at least deserves to be seen so people can make up their own minds.

Straight after this was shown BBC 2 started showing the Charles Laughton version of The Hunchback of Notre Dame, great cinematography which even today stands the test of time ( although the overacting is bad and i can't help thinking about how Disney put a happy ending on their version ) this film is also about intolerance and how sections of society in power try to dictate how others live their life and how those who do not conform to a certain viewpoint ( or look a certain way ) get ostracised and are made to become outcasts and shunned and looked down upon, hmmm surely this couldn't be happening in 2004 ........................................ or could it.
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post #47 of 54 Old 08-05-2004, 09:03 AM
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Let's think about this a little in terms of historical perspective.

The film was originally released in 1946. Given the hypersensitivity to racial stereotypes through the 50's and 60's, it's understandable that Disney would simply put that movie away for a while.

Now in 2004, perhaps it's possible to view the movie on its merits and with a little historical perspective. Perhaps it's not. Have the perceptions of racial stereotypes changed? Have the wounds of the time healed sufficiently that such movies wouldn't be incendiary?

I can't answer these questions in general; everyone is going to have different reactions. Somehow I don't believe the demographic of this forum is going to be relevant.

There was nothing "sudden" about the withdrawal of Song of the South from distribution or release. The movie obviously isn't banned by any agency. BBC airing the movie is a first step, and probably a test of the waters for an American release.

I don't really think you can fault Disney for withholding the movie while the world changes around it.

Hopefully those old Warner cartoons can be revived someday as well.

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post #48 of 54 Old 08-05-2004, 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by Morris Jones I don't really think you can fault Disney for withholding the movie while the world changes around it.
Well I for one DO fault them. The purpose of copyright is to PROMOTE the creation and distribution of creative works, not to suppress them. If they don't want to distribute SOTS then they should forfeit the copyright in my opinion.

Some people object to Huck Finn as well. Should we cease publication of that "while the world changes around it"?

My cable provider is Netflix
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post #49 of 54 Old 08-05-2004, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The film was originally released in 1946. Given the hypersensitivity to racial stereotypes through the 50's and 60's, it's understandable that Disney would simply put that movie away for a while.
Its regularly shown on British Television ( this isn't a first step they showed it last year too and the year before that ) during the school summer holidays and at xmas, if the BBC can show it and the whole of British society does not collapse i'm pretty sure they can release it on DVD in the UK.

Warners deserve to be mentioned here too as i believe many Tom and Jerry cartoons are censored for violent content or have scenes removed because of perceived racial stereotyping when none is present, its political correctness gone mad.
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post #50 of 54 Old 08-05-2004, 09:26 PM
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Well I for one DO fault them. The purpose of copyright is to PROMOTE the creation and distribution of creative works, not to suppress them. If they don't want to distribute SOTS then they should forfeit the copyright in my opinion.
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post #51 of 54 Old 08-05-2004, 09:41 PM
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I think the biggest reason that the film is not racist is the very fact it was made. The Disney Company wanted to give a bunch of black actors some work and a chance. Sure, profit was an incentive too but in 1946 not many studios would let blacks get many big parts or make a film about black culture. Disney did. The film may not be pur-fectly PC by today's standards. For back then it was proably pushing the envelope towards the good side of the force? ;)

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post #52 of 54 Old 08-06-2004, 11:09 AM
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I have a VHS copy of it, not the PAL and it's a pretty good print.

It also has the original trailer and the reissue trailer from the 80's...if only the print they used for this VHS was as good as the 80's trailer.

And for an added bonus, it came with the one fo the greatest animated features ever..."Coal Black and the Seben Dwarfs!" The print is terrible but at least I got it!

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post #53 of 54 Old 08-06-2004, 11:33 AM
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And for an added bonus, it came with the one fo the greatest animated features ever..."Coal Black and the Seben Dwarfs!" The print is terrible but at least I got it!
You're kidding??!! I didn't think that one ever came out on video. It was my understanding that whichever studio made it still denies to this day that it ever existed. I'm pretty sure it wasn't a Disney short. So who made it? I haven't seen it since a college animation class almost 20 years ago.
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post #54 of 54 Old 08-06-2004, 05:45 PM
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Warner Bros. made it and it was directed by Robert Clampett.

It was made with all African-American voices. He tried to get one of Hollywoods all African-American jazz bands but he didn't have the budget, so they used their own in house band.

Let's hope WB puts this on one of their Looney Tunes sets in the future, of course with all the PC crap tied to it!

It was never offically released on video...

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