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post #91 of 1711 Old 10-03-2004, 03:49 PM
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I would guess it is the hapless millions stuck in traffic wanting to be
mad at someone about being stuck in traffic.

b2b

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post #92 of 1711 Old 10-03-2004, 04:48 PM
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May I ask one question. There obviously was zero cooperation on the part of Fox News in the making of this documentary. How did Outfoxed gain permission to use all the Fox News clips? Is this not copyrighted material which requires permission to be reused?
Does this mean that anyone can tape and reuse talking head TV programs (or others) without permission?
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post #93 of 1711 Old 10-03-2004, 04:54 PM
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I would guess because it's a "documentary" Fox would have to go to court and claim libel, they didn't do so good against Frankin:) so might be a little gun-shy.

As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

My Momma didn't raise no fools! We raised ourselves!
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post #94 of 1711 Old 10-03-2004, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobertWood
May I ask one question. There obviously was zero cooperation on the part of Fox News in the making of this documentary. How did Outfoxed gain permission to use all the Fox News clips? Is this not copyrighted material which requires permission to be reused?
Does this mean that anyone can tape and reuse talking head TV programs (or others) without permission?
Without permission it would be Section 107 - Fair Use of federal code along with many court cases about the issue.

From the Copyright FAQ the last line says ....

"If there is any doubt, it is advisable to consult an attorney."

I'am sure that quite a few were consulted by the Producers of
"Outfoxed"

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post #95 of 1711 Old 10-03-2004, 05:14 PM
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But in this case the issue wouldn't be libel, would it? Wouldn't it instead be copyright violation? Unauthorized reuse without permission.?

I ask this for a particular reason. I've had an idea for some time. It can be best explained I think as "mystery science theater goes topical".
I envision a living room set with a big screen TV which is showing selected clips from the talking head shows. In the foreground we see two or three live performers seated on a sofa. And they are heard commenting on (making fun of) what is being seen on the TV. The content on these shows is begging for a sendup. And I think this would provide an interesting vehicle for such.
From the beginning, the hangup I thought would be never being able to get the talking head shows to play ball. Because why would they agree to being ridiculed?
But this documentary now has me wondering if permission is even necessary.
I just cannot imagine that if permission is needed that Murdoch would ever grant it. I know that often shows share clips either for a fee or gratis because it gets the show further exposure. In that case it just further promotes the thing. But surely Murdoch would not want to cooperate in any way shape or form with what's in this documentary. Would he?
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post #96 of 1711 Old 10-03-2004, 05:16 PM
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Thanks, b2b. We posted at the same time so I had not seen your reply.

In that case what would be your take on whether what I'm wanting to do could be considered "fair use". Am I dreaming? Or is it doable?
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post #97 of 1711 Old 10-03-2004, 05:53 PM
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I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on tv!!:) . Thanks B2B, I know very little of fair-use doctrine except that part pertaining to home use recording. However , if as Fox claims, it's just disgruntled employees, they could sue if the information is false and likely to cause "harm" to the coproration. That they haven't leads one( well, me at least! that's one:)) to believe the basic facts are correct. If their suit against Al Frankin hadn't been (literally) laughed out of court, it would have been interesting to see them justify "fair and balanced" as more than a marketing motif.

As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

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post #98 of 1711 Old 10-03-2004, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobertWood
Thanks, b2b. We posted at the same time so I had not seen your reply.

In that case what would be your take on whether what I'm wanting to do could be considered "fair use". Am I dreaming? Or is it doable?
Most, if not all of the "Fair Use" stuff is decided not by
statute, but by judicial review. Showing
entire broadcast segments with critical commentary added to the
content might be pushing the boundaries of Fair Use.

I would check with the ACLU or the EFF before putting out something
like that, just to see if you have good counsel backing you if things went
judicial. :cool:

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post #99 of 1711 Old 10-03-2004, 06:28 PM
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[edit]I apologize for that outburst. And it's now deleted. Got to learn how to exercise self restraint.
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post #100 of 1711 Old 10-03-2004, 06:50 PM
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Doing anything that invites entanglement with lawyers and the judicial system is
something akin to asking for "Death by Scabies".

b2b

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post #101 of 1711 Old 10-03-2004, 07:00 PM
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My gosh. What in blazes were you searching for to find that? Jebus!
That's like something out of a horror movie.

But I throw in the towel on this legal thing. Can you imagine how many lawyers Rupert Murdoch must have? And Gates (MSNBC)? If I went to messing with them they'd crush me like a bug. They'd dig up my divorce, my two years in Canada during Vietnam, probably even have pictures of me that night in Tijuana. When they were through with me I'd be wishing I never heard of Bill O'Reilly. Or Wolf Blitzer.
Maybe not Greta Sustern though. After the facelift she's a babe.
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post #102 of 1711 Old 10-03-2004, 07:20 PM
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Note the similarities between these two sites..

One from Fox and the other from
Fox's alter ego.

But only one admits to being straight with their audience.

;)

b2b

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post #103 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HTCrazy
Without getting into politics - er uh, the black levels were decent.
Just watched this tonight, and I wanted to thank you for making me aware of it. In fact, it's going to make the rounds to everyone I know.

And I will be sure to point out the decent black levels....

Jim ;)
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post #104 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by fisheggs
As an old fashioned Liberal, I have to take issue that the mainstream press is "liberal". On some social topics (abortion, gay issues, war on drugs) the slant is more libertarian than liberal, and on economic issues the slant is more "corporate". For a "liberal" press they sure trashed Clinton and Gore alot! And where are the tough questions(and follow-ups) asked of this administration? One of the saddest mistakes made by Reagan was to demolish the "fairness doctrine", though it would not affect Fox as it is cable, which is how it should be.
Really, mainstream press without a liberal bias. Let me cite you an example of liberal bias you can go look up and see for yourself. The Thursday New York Times, had as their main above the fold story an article on proof Iraq did not have WMD's, which was based on the Duelfer report. Not reported till page A22, in one of those easy to miss skinny verticle columns, was the fact that the Duelfer report also reported major misconduct in the UN Oil for Food program ( A story fox did a feature on several weeks ago I might add). Which of these items contained in the same report wass the biggest news? Didn't some guy name Kay say the same thing regarding WMD's about a year ago? That part of the report was old, and I mean really old news, as their was nothing new in that story. The only purpose of having it above the fold was to use it as an issue that could hurt Bush if spun the right way. The ignoring the Oil For Food 11 Billion dollar sanction busting French wallet padding scam, this was the first time a Govt actually levied any direct allegations at the program. This was big news. It will be bigger news still when it is made public that several of the Oil For Food participating companies had their assets seized for funding Al Queda (this is fact).

I don't remember anyone trashing Clinton and Gore except Clinton and Gore. The Press was forced to cover the Impeachment. I remember the press giving Clinton a free pass on Somalia. I can't recall any other president that could get away with flying a man (Aidid) whom was responsible for killing 20+ US soldiers and an additional 30+ UN troops, to Geneva, in an USAF C140, putting him up in a 5 star hotel for peace talks. To top it off they put him back on a C140 and flew him back, after caving into his demands. Absolutely no press coverage. Fox wasn't around back then.

I have never heard of the "fairness doctrine" I will have to look that up and get back to you.

"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." JFK
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post #105 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 12:43 PM
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O'Reilly and Hannity are opinion/gossip shows. I don't think Fox ever promotes them as their nightly evening news. The first half of Special Report with Brit Hume is their evening news and it never shows any bias. The second half of the show is an opinion show. Maybe they should put up a disclaimer for all the idiots out there to realize the difference. Anybody could nit pick and find some occurrence where Fox didn't give a 50/50 equal split of coverage to both the Republican and Democratic points of view. I just find Fox more fair than the Alphabets. If CBS ever has a Republican on, they use the opportunity to attack their character or get them to say something bad about the President.
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post #106 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 01:10 PM
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I might be an idiot. But I'm not crazy. Since when is Fox News on only in primetime? They produce their version of straight news throughout the day. I'm watching it as we speak.
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post #107 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobertWood
I might be an idiot. But I'm not crazy. Since when is Fox News on only in primetime? They produce their version of straight news throughout the day. I'm watching it as we speak.
That's exactly the problem with Fox News, "They produce their version of straight news" and then call it "Fair and Balanced". I like to call it , the Political Cartoon Channel, these on-air personalities are so cartoon-ish in character. It might even be fun to watch except for the fact that evidently many people believe this crap which makes it scary.

Jim
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post #108 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobertWood
I might be an idiot. But I'm not crazy. Since when is Fox News on only in primetime? They produce their version of straight news throughout the day. I'm watching it as we speak.
The straight news throughout the day is the cut ins with Laurie Dhue or when they say...Breaking News. If you are watching a program with a round table it is opinion and can't be expected to be fair and balanced although they try. All or most of the criticism of Fox is usually directed at two shows The O'Reilly Factor and Hannity & Colmes which are opinion shows. They have guests on and the guests give their opinions (as well as the hosts). These shows are no different than the network Sunday shows like Face The Nation and Meet The Press. If Fox had a so called investigative show like 60 Minutes and had blatant bias on it I would be pissed and would give criticism to them. On weekdays only the first half of Special Report with Brit Hume is an unbiased news report. The Fox Report is a gossip show like Inside Edition, O'Reilly and Hannity are opinion shows and On The Record with Greta Susteren is another interview/opinion show.


ps I guess the daytime stock shows have bias if they give you a bad stock tip.
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post #109 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 03:29 PM
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I would like to reply, Stone. But if we continue to discuss what this movie is all about, I feel pretty certain that anonymous person out there is sure to complain. And once he does we'll be told to mind our manners.
I don't know about you but I would just prefer not to go through that embarrasment again. So I'll just agree with everything you've said and let's move on to more important stuff. Like edge enlargement. Do you think the Outfoxed DVD had enough edge enlargement in it? I think it could have used some more.
How about the artwork on the DVD cover? I thought it was pretty good.
How about you?
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post #110 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 03:45 PM
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I couldn't tell who was on the cover. Was that supposed to be Murdoch or O'Reilly? I rented it so I didn't get original.
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post #111 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 04:04 PM
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I thank God every day for the FOX News channel and the Internet for providing an alternative to the news we received from the Big Three (ABC, NBC, and CBS), plus CNN, plus dominant newspapers like the NYTimes, the Washington Post, the Boston Globe, and the LATimes. Even if it has a conservative slant to it instead of being "just the facts" or "fair and balanced," or even if it's conservative and/or right-wing gossip rather than hard news, that's still more diversity and variety and opposing points of view than we heard from the "letter" news stations/channels.

I detect fear and jealousy from those in the major media who dis' FOX.
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post #112 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 04:23 PM
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Doggone it. Now I wish I hadn't decided not to post any more comments.
I sure would like to reply to that one.
I guess I truly am an idiot. :)

But the DVD cover was mighty pretty, Stone. Had a lot of colors and stuff.
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post #113 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 04:29 PM
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Flip Flops are allowed here Robert!
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post #114 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 04:41 PM
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Fox news coverage is far from fair and balanced, and often factually incorrect and/or misleading but so are the rest of the US news networks. Bending to the right or left isn't the issue, it's least common denominator, lazy journalism that refuses to check itself or the stories it puts forth. That is utterly incapable of telling the whole story, or putting any story in historical or relevant context. It's a shame we are forced to look to independent media sources, and foreign news services in order to find out what's going on in the world, and in our own country.

Just look at ALL networks coverage just prior to our latest war. You saw the same opinions, the same talking heads parrotting the message of the day, the same tired verifiably false information that you DID NOT see on independent and foreign news broadcasts. Since that time the truth has come out and of course the independent & foreign news voices were vindicated and our own journalistic machine was made to look as foolish and misleading as it truly is.

If you are thanking God for Fox news because of it's entertainment value, fine. If you think it's in any way actual news, you are naive to the point of absurdity.
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post #115 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 04:50 PM
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Guys, have a little decency about you. Someone out here finds it very upsetting if you make mention of Fox News. Remember what Mr. Spock once said. The good of the one is more important that the good of the many. Remember what Alexander Jefferson said. Minority rules.
And remember that this person might not be very emotionally stable.
If you keep talking about Fox News it might just send him over the edge.
Now you wouldn't want something like that on your conscience would you?
So do the gentlemanly thing and just drop it. There's plenty more to talk about with this movie. Edge enlightment, resolution, black level just to name a few. Have a heart.
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post #116 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 05:05 PM
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Well, I was curious why they only had women has their viewing panel, unless I missed a male in there somewhere. They were some of the ugliest woman I've had the displeasure of seeing I would add also.

I don't think the cover photo is either one, just a mouth going, blah, blah, blah.

Jim
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post #117 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 05:22 PM
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I have to disagree, Jim. The mouth depicted on that cover is an example of abstract impersonationism. I can see a little Warholeian influence. Or something with a hole in it anyway.
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post #118 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobertWood
Or something with a hole in it anyway.
:D :D :D :D

Jim
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post #119 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by uzun
If you are thanking God for Fox news because of it's entertainment value, fine. If you think it's in any way actual news, you are naive to the point of absurdity.
"To the point of absurdity"? That, I think, is absurd, for maybe not in ALL ways, but in SOME ways, if not in MANY ways, there is news to be had on FOX News.
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post #120 of 1711 Old 10-10-2004, 06:45 PM
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That's the problem, the viewer must be wise enough to separate the "news" from the propaganda. This particular channel appears to blur that line more than others. That's why something like Outfoxed gets made.

Jim
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