Is illegal personal copying what's behind the success of and Netflix and Blockbuster - Page 17 - AVS Forum
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Old 12-18-2005, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by karlw2000
Another 'in fact' is that we lookfor the newly released Tuesday sales and buy the movies we want to keep. Funny that I still hardly watch all those DVDs I bought ;).
Yep. You, me, and pretty much everyone I know. Still, for me it's about having the movies I really like available whenever I *do* want to watch it. Silly, I know...

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Old 12-18-2005, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by absolutic
I ditto the comments about copying dvds as far as it being not practical at all. Everything is double-layer and the blank double-layer dvds are as expensive (if not more) than actual dvds. What is the point of copying dvd? Who wants to watch inferior copy of a movie on a nice tv that most people in this country already has.
I don't know where this "inferior" crap comes from. Anyone with half a clue can make a perfect digital copy. Most people couldn't care less about the extras on a DVD or the menus. Like a few people already mentioned, I freakin' HATE the menus! So cutting this out is a BONUS. If you want JUST the actual movie and cut out everything but the english soundtrack you can get a very high percentage of DVD's onto a single 4.7G disc with 100% quality. Absolutely zero difference from the original in both PQ and Audio.

I don't know if most people here are family guys or not, but I have a 3 year old. For anyone who has never had a 3 year old, they do not always go to bed at 8:30pm. Nor do they always stay in bed once they do go. So when I rent a movie you can be friggin' sure the first place it goes is onto a DVD+RW so I can watch it whenever my 3 year old decides to give us a few hours off. That might be the very same night I rented it or it might be 3 weeks down the road.

I am not sure how that is illegal. I paid my money for the rental, and the DVD+RW will be overwritten once we finally get a chance to watch it. And if it was a really good movie we'll throw it on our shopping list of DVD's.
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Old 12-18-2005, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for all your opinions. I guess the MPAA has nothing to fear from this crowd. Maybe the MPAA is just over blowing the whole llegal personal copying thing ;)

WeÂre doomed. It will never work
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Old 12-18-2005, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ptaaty
I am still patiently waiting for a 256-320 kbps mp3 service that is offering songs at a real stripped price. I don't want half assed quality at a $1 a song....
www.allofmp3.com
Dirt cheap, no DRM and you pick the quality from 128k MP3 to original WAV.
For example, using LAME preset EXTREME costs around 10 to 20 cents per song.
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Old 12-18-2005, 07:23 PM
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I apologize if I missed this being brought up before, but to directly answer the question aren't the "rip and return" guys the ones that are in danger of driving Netflix and its clones out of business? So I'm going to say, "No."

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Old 12-18-2005, 08:08 PM
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www.allofmp3.com
Dirt cheap, no DRM and you pick the quality from 128k MP3 to original WAV.
For example, using LAME preset EXTREME costs around 10 to 20 cents per song.
I think it's been pretty well determined at this point that the reason they are selling them dirt cheap is because this site is not paying anyone any royalties, i.e. it's an illegal site that is still up because it is probably in like the Ukraine or some such place where they can just pay off the local authorities to keep out of reach of the folks they are stealing from.

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Old 12-18-2005, 08:16 PM
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Thank you for all your opinions. I guess the MPAA has nothing to fear from this crowd. Maybe the MPAA is just over blowing the whole llegal personal copying thing
I think that you just asked the wrong question. I think that the real question is, will Netflix and Blockbuster survive once movies are as easy to copy and distribute as music? I.e. the question is really the other way around. They may catch a break and the upcoming blu-ray/HD-DVD discs will help, but maybe not. So much of the catalogue is already out there in the open, and will remain there. Even if, 5 years from now, high def discs start to become the platform on which new movies are introduced exclusively, all the stuff up to then is going to be DVD quality stuff that is freely copyable.

So you have to figure that the stuff that makes it out on DVD before the new discs become the only vehicle will have a shelf life that goes out probably 10 years from now or some such thing? During that time, better compression and faster connections may converge to create a situation where movie sharing becomes a significant issue. Probably never as much so as music, but obviously much more so than it is now.

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Old 12-18-2005, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey
I think it's been pretty well determined at this point that the reason they are selling them dirt cheap is because this site is not paying anyone any royalties, i.e. it's an illegal site that is still up because it is probably in like the Ukraine or some such place where they can just pay off the local authorities to keep out of reach of the folks they are stealing from.

Actually I think it is probably in Russia. This site was actually featured in a number of magazines each time saying, 'warning, may not be legal." Interestingly, the Russian Supreme Court, I read somewhere, found this site entirely legal. I actually pointed this site to couple of my coworkers, but they are paraniod about giving their credit card number to a russian-ran site.

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Old 12-19-2005, 12:40 AM
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Interestingly, the Russian Supreme Court, I read somewhere, found this site entirely legal.
I wouldn't put much stock in that. If they are selling content, without license from or compensation to the owners of it, it's clearly not legal. It's easy for a country with minimal intellectual content to lose to be casual about such things I guess, as in China. But they'll be screwing themselves in times to come when they can't maintain a viable intellectual property industry because they've created a culture that considers IP to be free for the taking.

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Old 12-19-2005, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey
I wouldn't put much stock in that. If they are selling content, without license from or compensation to the owners of it, it's clearly not legal. It's easy for a country with minimal intellectual content to lose to be casual about such things I guess, as in China. But they'll be screwing themselves in times to come when they can't maintain a viable intellectual property industry because they've created a culture that considers IP to be free for the taking.
http://www.museekster.com/allofmp3info.htm
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Old 12-19-2005, 10:54 AM
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Well said Brickie, whats that saying when you point a finger at someone you have 3 pointing back at you. To each his own!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have better things to worry about then someone copying a movie they rented from from blockbuster, I have never did it, but I recently purchased a computer DVD R/RW specificlly for that LOL (Shame on me right) and was just given a DVD Recorder for christmas, and we ALL know what those are for so come on if they are going to sell DVD Recorders legally then then need not say anything when that is what it is intended for. But I have did my leg work and went out and found those movies that were next to nothing and yes you have to know where to look.
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Old 12-19-2005, 12:12 PM
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I didn't read thru the whole thread but this is my opinion. Having just moved from an area with a library that had an excellent dvd collection (new releases were available, reserve them online a month in advance and pick up them up on release day) I now have to rent more movies. Going with BB online was a no brainer even with 9.99 plan with instore coupons I can watch at least 6 movies a month which is above average for me. When I can't turnaround a movie immediately I just use the coupons to pick up another.
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Old 12-19-2005, 12:20 PM
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I guess I could understand if these people were taking from the people here that are saying they are stealing, i'm sorry that its happening to the people that have already made millions of dollars off of the movie already I can tell it really put a dent in thier pocket.
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Old 12-19-2005, 12:46 PM
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I guess I could understand if these people were taking from the people here that are saying they are stealing, i'm sorry that its happening to the people that have already made millions of dollars off of the movie already I can tell it really put a dent in thier pocket.
If you are an honest consumer, then theft hurts you. You end up paying for that theft, and the people who are stealing are benefitting from you and getting something for free that you pay for. That's why theft is wrong, always. It both penalizes the honest, and it creates a situation where everyone starts thinking, why am I the one who is suffering here while they all get a free ride? It leads to more theft, and makes that theft easier to rationalize.

It's so easy to pull out the 'well they've already made plenty of money' thing, but that's a completely dishonest rationalization, which you would never accept being pulled on you. If the homeless guy steals your Xmas presents from your car, is that ok? I mean, dang, you have a car and and a house and a bed and air conditioning. What does he have? Why shouldn't he be able to steal your presents?

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Old 12-19-2005, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shrtnsexy76
i'm sorry that its happening to the people that have already made millions of dollars off of the movie already I can tell it really put a dent in thier pocket.
That's not the point.

But in your heart of hearts you already know that.

And this is not coming from a big IP guy

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Old 12-19-2005, 12:54 PM
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Although I'm not a big impulse DVD buyer like I was back i the early DVD days, when I do buy one I want the original disc and packaging. I've no interest in copying movies just to say that I have them.

I'll even inspect slipcovers for dents and damage before picking one from the rack.
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Old 12-19-2005, 01:00 PM
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See you have me mistaking for someone else because I am one of the ones who gives to the homeless before they ask for money. How is this any different if you or I was to buy a movie or a CD and we gave it to someone else? when the rental places purchased the movie and they are distributing it out for money it is how is that not stealing to have somethign for themselves? That isnt their copyright on that movie right? but i guess if they were to keep the movie lets say from Movie gallery for 15 days thats 15 dollars that they would have paid to have that movie, then does it make it ok then for them to copy it then? Because not only are they renting it to them, who knows how much money they are making off that movie from other people.
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Old 12-19-2005, 01:15 PM
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Ok I'm done arguing and trying to justify for what other people have done and havent did myself even though I had the equipment to do so. Everyones intitled to their opinion!! you have a Great Day and God Bless
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:23 PM
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How is this any different if you or I was to buy a movie or a CD and we gave it to someone else? when the rental places purchased the movie and they are distributing it out for money it is how is that not stealing to have somethign for themselves? That isnt their copyright on that movie right?
They *buy* the DVDs they rent. That's completely legal as long as they buy them. Basically, only one household ends up watching any one legal DVD at any one time. That's the fundamental limitation. When you copy something and share it or rent somethind and copy that and keep it, then you go beyond that limit.

If you want to buy CDs or DVDs and give them away, that's up to you and more power to you. But copying them and sharing is not the same thing.

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Old 12-19-2005, 05:54 PM
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I make copies of all the movies I buy. And if a friend wants to borrow a DVD, they get the copy. The original stays on my shelf. They get the inferior copy, but they will never be able to tell on their televisions. None of them have made the jump to a HD quality system. And I do not have to worry when it is returned. All of my Christmas movies are all on lone. But If I want to watch Christmas Vacation tonight I can. But, my collection is only about 150 DVD's.

Just like my cd collection is now all mp3's on one of my drives. Still have a problem using a p2p to receive music that I do not already own. My daughter is getting a large mp3 player for Christmas, I guess I will be showing her how to turn her cd's into MP3 files so that she can load these on her new player.

And yes I have tried to download a movie, but it was so bad I could not even watch it. Oh I did actually have it on DVD...

Waiting all these years to see the Bengals win... And what a bonus to watch them on 100' screen...
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Old 12-19-2005, 07:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by UnknownShadow
I don't know where this "inferior" crap comes from. Anyone with half a clue can make a perfect digital copy. Most people couldn't care less about the extras on a DVD or the menus. Like a few people already mentioned, I freakin' HATE the menus! So cutting this out is a BONUS. If you want JUST the actual movie and cut out everything but the english soundtrack you can get a very high percentage of DVD's onto a single 4.7G disc with 100% quality. Absolutely zero difference from the original in both PQ and Audio.

I don't know if most people here are family guys or not, but I have a 3 year old. For anyone who has never had a 3 year old, they do not always go to bed at 8:30pm. Nor do they always stay in bed once they do go. So when I rent a movie you can be friggin' sure the first place it goes is onto a DVD+RW so I can watch it whenever my 3 year old decides to give us a few hours off. That might be the very same night I rented it or it might be 3 weeks down the road.

I am not sure how that is illegal. I paid my money for the rental, and the DVD+RW will be overwritten once we finally get a chance to watch it. And if it was a really good movie we'll throw it on our shopping list of DVD's.
That is not illegal because it is a personal use DVD. It is illegal to copy and then distribute it or sell it. In essence, its the same as copying a movie off HBO for your personal use. Nothing wrong with that. You already paid for the subscription.

Another analogy would be making copies of reading material from the library. The fair use exception to the copyright infringement laws allow one to make one copy for personal use, just so you don't resell it or distribute it as your own.
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Old 12-19-2005, 07:38 PM
 
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Interesting that laserdiscs were never saddled with copy protection like VHS tapes. You can make a nice pristine DVD from a laserdisc and most people cannot tell the difference. One of the great benefits of a laserdisc collection.
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Old 12-20-2005, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squonk
That is not illegal because it is a personal use DVD.
Copying any retail DVD IS illegal. By breaking the css code, you are changing the content on the disc, which is a copyright violation. Fair use is a thing of the past.
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Old 12-20-2005, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by NoThru22
Copying any retail DVD IS illegal. By breaking the css code, you are changing the content on the disc, which is a copyright violation. Fair use is a thing of the past.
Fair use isn't a thing of the past, but it never was what many (most?) people think it was.
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Old 12-20-2005, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squonk
That is not illegal because it is a personal use DVD. It is illegal to copy and then distribute it or sell it. In essence, its the same as copying a movie off HBO for your personal use. Nothing wrong with that. You already paid for the subscription.

Another analogy would be making copies of reading material from the library. The fair use exception to the copyright infringement laws allow one to make one copy for personal use, just so you don't resell it or distribute it as your own.
You need to read up on your laws, it is a copyright vilolation in both situation's. If you copy a HBO movie, and move it to another system in your house you have distributed it. Thus a copyright vilolation, the same goes for a book, if you go to the library and copy a huge amount of the book, it's a copyright vilolation. I can't right off the bat remember just how much you can copy from a book, but it is still a vilolation.

In the book case most places won't care, unless it shows up on the internet, or something like that. Also if what you say is true, then why are all the media companies hate p2p so much. After all if I record DeadWood and let a friend borrow it for a day who care's right.

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Old 12-21-2005, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bosng
why pick on netflix and blockbuster? your question should be: does the dvd rental industry thrive on illegal copying? although dvd provides the best reproduction so far, the final result will still be sub standard compared to the store bought dvd. as someone stated above, until a higher capacity media is out and cheap enough to warrant the ripping of a copy without loss of pic quality and or extra content, it won't happen. as for copying movies, the movie industry was in the same boat with vhs and ota.

I dunno, for the most part, you can get no loss of quality for the movie itself. I.e. ripping just movie + single soundtrack, and then do a full compressed version of the entire disc to get all the menus and features... Also get to bypass the FBI Warning, HAHA (;

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Old 12-21-2005, 06:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Rthoreau
You need to read up on your laws, it is a copyright vilolation in both situation's. If you copy a HBO movie, and move it to another system in your house you have distributed it. Thus a copyright vilolation, the same goes for a book, if you go to the library and copy a huge amount of the book, it's a copyright vilolation. I can't right off the bat remember just how much you can copy from a book, but it is still a vilolation.

In the book case most places won't care, unless it shows up on the internet, or something like that. Also if what you say is true, then why are all the media companies hate p2p so much. After all if I record DeadWood and let a friend borrow it for a day who care's right.

Rthoreau
apparantly you have never heard of the fair use exception to the copyright infringement laws
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Old 12-22-2005, 02:55 PM
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I've also stopped buying DVDs, with the exception of a series I already had a few discs of (Star Wars, LotR, etc) in anticipation of HD media. Of course, I don't plan on being an early adopter, I can't stomach paying 1k for a 1st gen player. Especially with the format war looming.

So Netflix is ideal for me, and if I get a chance to watch a movie, and determine if I really do want to own it. If so, it goes on my BD list, and 2 years from now, I'll end up shelling out like 1k and cleaning up (;

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