Super Bit DVDs ? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 42 Old 08-28-2001, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ed Csoltko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Anyone know anything about super bit DVDs?

Sony DVD to Bow 'Super Bit Collection'; Haas Leaving
(August 2001) Culver City, CA-Columbia TriStar Home Entertainment (CTHE) is planning to release on Oct. 9 the first wave of what it calls its "Super Bit Collection" of DVDs, providing the highest quality audio and video transfers.

"Super Bit," whose technology was developed by CTHE sister company Sony Digital Studios, based here, uses the space on a disc that would otherwise be taken up by added-value material. The technology involves a high-bit encoding process, and is designed to deliver the best possible picture in conjunction with progressive-scan DVD players. The first titles-Air Force One, Desperado, Johnny Pneunomic, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and The Fifth Element-will be followed in December by a second wave of four or five movies.


------------------
Home Theater Photos at:
http://members5.clubphoto.com/kathy376507/

Home Theater Photos:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

System Components:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ed Csoltko is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 42 Old 08-28-2001, 08:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
Majestyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 985
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

There is a lot of talk about it at Hometheaterforum.com

The short of it is, it just has no extra features taking up space. IMO, it's total bull. There are tons of 2 disc DVD's, with the special features on disc 2. The Superbit DVD's are just the disc 1.

What puzzles me is why they put DTS on it as well. It takes up more space, thus affecting the video quality.

Jeff
Majestyk is offline  
post #3 of 42 Old 08-28-2001, 10:36 PM
Advanced Member
 
Rice Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Central CA
Posts: 960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
>> What puzzles me is why they put DTS on it as well. It takes up more space, thus affecting the video quality.

Perhaps because many people find DTS to be generally superior to DD--hence they would fulfill the promise of, "...providing the highest quality audio and video transfers." http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/eek.gif

For some of us, the real question is why Sony chose half-bitrate DTS instead of full-bitrate.

Ed: Do a search in this forum for "SuperBit."
Rice Rocket is online now  
post #4 of 42 Old 08-29-2001, 11:03 AM
Member
 
deepfry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario,Canada
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well, they recorded the video at a higher bitrate (and kept the bitrate constant) so theoretically it should provide a better picture (this remains to be seen, but I'm optimistic and believe that we will see a difference). Also, adding dts and the higher-bitrate dd will mean that the audio will be better. Not including a full-bitrate dts was probably a decision made based upon how much space the video took up on the disc (since most dvds are encoding at varying bitrates (when not much is changing on the screen the bitrate can be lower due to the mpeg encoding just saying "keep all the bits from the previous field and just change bits x, y, and z" (vast oversimplification)), they generally have more room for things such as commentaries, possibly full bitrate dts tracks, etc.

At any rate, it's not something you _have_ to buy, it's only for people who really want the highest quality presentation of the movie. Not that there is much wrong with the existing versions, which is what CTSHV is saying: if you want features, pick up the special editions. If all you care about is the movie, pick up the Superbits.
deepfry is offline  
post #5 of 42 Old 08-29-2001, 07:01 PM
Advanced Member
 
Majestyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 985
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

Well let's hope the DTS mix that is used is superior because the higher bit rate has nothing to do with the improved sound.


Jeff
Majestyk is offline  
post #6 of 42 Old 08-29-2001, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ed Csoltko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
When I first read about Sony introducing the super bit DVDs, the first thing I assumed was here we go again, another ploy to get us to buy DVDs we already have. What's so special about super bit DVD enhanced video and audio? I don't think we will see or hear the difference, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

------------------
Home Theater Photos at:
http://members5.clubphoto.com/kathy376507/

Home Theater Photos:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

System Components:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ed Csoltko is offline  
post #7 of 42 Old 08-30-2001, 12:05 AM
Advanced Member
 
Rice Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Central CA
Posts: 960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
...because the higher bit rate has nothing to do with the improved sound.

Hmmm. I think the increased bit rate can contribute positively to improved sound. Ruling it's contribution out completely is egregious.
Rice Rocket is online now  
post #8 of 42 Old 08-30-2001, 05:30 AM
Advanced Member
 
Majestyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 985
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10


That doesn't explain why the early DTS DVD's that came out, all sound the same as the DD version. It wasn't really until Saving Private Ryan DTS, which used an entirely superiour mix, came out. JP The Lost World DTS and DD sound the same as well. The new DTS version of JP is the samed beefed up version as the laserdisc and that's why it sounds better.

This is of course, my opinion and I'll end things here because I'm in danger of starting a DTS vs DD debate. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Jeff
Majestyk is offline  
post #9 of 42 Old 08-30-2001, 06:21 AM
Senior Member
 
Michael4JBL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Behind my stereo (Arlington, TX)
Posts: 469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I didn't realize sony was involved with this. Now I am sure it is a scam.

------------------
Hate everything sony!!!

"Laugh it up fuzzball!!!"
~of==o>
"I'm your huckleberry"
<><
Michael4JBL is offline  
post #10 of 42 Old 08-30-2001, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ed Csoltko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Anyone purchasing one of these superbit DVDs, please give us your impression and/or feedback on the overall "improved" video and audio performance. I wonder if the increased retail/purchase price is worth buying these DVDs.

------------------
Home Theater Photos at:
http://members5.clubphoto.com/kathy376507/

Home Theater Photos:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

System Components:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ed Csoltko is offline  
post #11 of 42 Old 08-30-2001, 11:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
LeeAntin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Lynbrook,NY,USA
Posts: 2,311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Here is my personal opinion concerning these new Super Bit DVD's:

Columbia is going to take the original HD DVD master and instead of transferring it at a variable rate; 3 to 10 MbPS, they are going to just let the thing fly at the full 10 MbPS.

The only area I can see that this might help is in "still action" scenes where the camera is focused on a head shot with the actor speaking and no movment. Normally this would use the lower end of the bit rate (3) but all the "high action" scenes have always used the higher end to prevent smearing and pixel breakup.

What this means to the buyer is that "static" shots might have some more detail in them. How much more? Unknown, but I do not believe it will be enough to justify the purchasing of these new DVD's to replace my existing copies of these choosen movies.

NOW.......If Columbia was going to go back and re-transfer the movie from the INTERNEGATIVE (as opposed to the existing pratcise of using the INTERPOSITIVE) and create a whole new HD DVD Master...that would be a whole different ballgame.

Lee
LeeAntin is offline  
post #12 of 42 Old 08-30-2001, 02:13 PM
Advanced Member
 
Rice Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Central CA
Posts: 960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
&gt;&gt;This is of course, my opinion and I'll end things here because I'm in danger of starting a DTS vs DD debate.

IMHO, it's best that you preface your posts that way instead of making terse, blanket statements like, "...the higher bit rate has nothing to do with the improved sound," which is often misconstrued for fact.

Hopefully, you did the comparisons yourself before you reached your conclusions, which would then make it valid for you, in your system. In my system, there is a distinct improvement in sound quality of some of the older DTS titles you mentioned compared to their DD versions. This includes Dragonheart, Antz, and Apollo 13, which were before SPR.

Lee: Good point! A new transfer from the IN, rather than the IP would be great. Like you, I doubt Sony did that though. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif
Rice Rocket is online now  
post #13 of 42 Old 08-30-2001, 05:11 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 22,305
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 48
I know by now this is beating a dead horse but look at the scene in Cast Away when they are having christmas dinner together and the camera is positioned back to see the entire family and the feast. There is no detail! Why..... EE! Check your bit rate counter and you will see that it isn't the bit rate that is the culprit. This is my worry since EE is the main detail killer in the present" low bit rate" transfers , and that is that they will up the bit rate and be no more cognizant of this bane of quality than they have been till now. I will keep my fingers crossed!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



iRule rules my theater
 

"If she's amazing she won't be easy,if she's easy she won't be amazing"

 

Bob Marley

Art Sonneborn is online now  
post #14 of 42 Old 08-31-2001, 11:59 AM
Member
 
deepfry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario,Canada
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm not sure which source they used, but according the one of the releases I read they are creating a new hi-def master to perform the transfer from. So theoretically that in itself would improve the quality of the picture for these movies.
deepfry is offline  
post #15 of 42 Old 08-31-2001, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ed Csoltko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Check out: http://www.cnl.com/WhatIsSuperbit.html

------------------
Home Theater Photos at:
http://members5.clubphoto.com/kathy376507/

Home Theater Photos:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

System Components:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ed Csoltko is offline  
post #16 of 42 Old 08-31-2001, 07:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LeeAntin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Lynbrook,NY,USA
Posts: 2,311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ed,

Is it me and my computer or does your posted link work? I can't seem to get to the page you specificy. It produces nothing.

Lee
LeeAntin is offline  
post #17 of 42 Old 08-31-2001, 10:17 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ed Csoltko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The posted superbit dvd link works fine, I tried it several times.

------------------
Home Theater Photos at:
http://members5.clubphoto.com/kathy376507/

Home Theater Photos:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

System Components:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ed Csoltko is offline  
post #18 of 42 Old 09-01-2001, 01:56 PM
Member
 
deepfry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario,Canada
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks Ed, that is the place where I read the info (I believe they were the first site to break the news of the SuperBit dvds, as an aside).

While it's true that the higher bitrate transfer of the picture won't help the audio, they are creating the dts track and a dolby digital track at the higher rate for dd, so that should improve the sound for these dvds. Of course we'll have to wait and see to be certain.
deepfry is offline  
post #19 of 42 Old 09-01-2001, 06:01 PM
Advanced Member
 
boblinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 990
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Hey, I clicked through to that Superbit explanation page.

I have a question.

If these bits are SO super, why aren't they using the full 10mb bandwidth of the DVD format to produce them? The page clearly states that the bit rate is 7.3

However, the page does get a little closer to the truth by suggesting that a higher bitrate is possible when no additional added features are integrated into the movie-specific content on the disk. (That is, additional commentary tracks, etc. that can be played with the movie.)

Some folks on AVS Forum seem to think that they're talking about extra features on the disk. (And, frankly, the marketing weasels have contributed to that, probably to convince people they're getting extra quality when they're really getting less product.)

Extra features on the disk don't have anything to do with the bandwidth of the movie encoding unless they increased the video compression to limit movie data space and get more crap on the disk. (Besides, most disks have multiple layers and/or disks to address that issue, anyway.)

For what it's worth, I just ran the numbers. If it takes an 8-bit byte to express a single pixel on the screen, a two-hour DVD film at 720x480 resolution requires about 71.5 gigabytes of uncompressed storage for the visual image. (Calculated at the video refresh rate rounded out to 30 frames per second.)

A single-sided, dual layer DVD has about 7.95 gigabytes of storage capacity. So you need to implement a compression ratio of 9:1 to compress the average two-hour movie onto that DVD. (There's some slop here because I'm rounding out and not worrying about the 1000 vs. 1024 bits in a kilobyte.) Call it 12:1 to account for the addition of audio, subtitles, and a few gew-gaws. (I'm just pulling that number out of my heinie. It may be more or less than that in reality.)

That's not a ridiculous amount of compression for a delta compression scheme.

So what is my point? Well, the basic DVD standard is pretty strong for achieving high quality audio/video content. MPEG2 (or any delta compression scheme) should easily be able to achieve much better than 12:1 compression without compromising the resolution of the original 720x480 film frame.

But -- mostly -- I finally wanted to sit down and run the numbers for myself. Draw your own conclusions. :-)

Bob L.

PS -- If my math is in error, feel free to step forward and correct me.
boblinds is offline  
post #20 of 42 Old 09-02-2001, 12:28 AM
Member
 
Ross Cutler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Duvall, WA
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bob,
A pixel true color typically takes 24 bits to encode. DVD's use YUV422 (I think), so use 16 bits in your calculation.

Ross.

[This message has been edited by Ross Cutler (edited 09-02-2001).]
Ross Cutler is offline  
post #21 of 42 Old 09-02-2001, 01:07 PM
Advanced Member
 
Rice Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Central CA
Posts: 960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
If these bits are SO super, why aren't they using the full 10mb bandwidth of the DVD format to produce them? The page clearly states that the bit rate is 7.3
It is likely they are refering strictly to the video/picture bit-rate in those charts. If you imagine the entire pie as 10Mbps, then you'll see that they have the appropriate proportions marked out. Poor and confusing naming on the charts--clearly a marketing goof.

Here's the actual press release: http://www.dvdfile.com/news/web_wire.../superbit.html
Rice Rocket is online now  
post #22 of 42 Old 09-02-2001, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ed Csoltko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
"Standard DVDs are like fully loaded luxury automobiles. In contrast, Superbit DVDs are like Formula One race cars - built for pure performance. We believe that DVD enthusiasts will be thrilled with this exciting new concept."

It will be interesting to see the comments from those who actually get a superbit DVD. It sounds like they are trying to push the High Definition performance envelope.


------------------
Home Theater Photos at:
http://members5.clubphoto.com/kathy376507/

Home Theater Photos:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

System Components:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ed Csoltko is offline  
post #23 of 42 Old 09-02-2001, 07:59 PM
Member
 
yauwing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Fremont, CA, USA
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Consider that all the Superbit DVD are film materials, so there are only 24 frames per second.

Base on 24 frames of 720 x 480 x 24 bits image and use 7.3 Mbps video data described in Superbit spec. we get a video compression ratio of 27.
(I use 24bits because I count YUV422 as part of the lossy compression)

A normal DVD is about 3.75 Mbps so we are talking a 53:1 compression ratio.

My graphic experience tells me that such big difference in compression ratio should at least produce clearly visible different image if picture is compared frame by frame at pause mode.

Other unknown factors are the film master used in encoding Superbit may be different, the audio mixing may also be different.
yauwing is offline  
post #24 of 42 Old 09-02-2001, 09:59 PM
Advanced Member
 
boblinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 990
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Absolutely right, Ross. Thanks!
boblinds is offline  
post #25 of 42 Old 09-20-2001, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ed Csoltko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Widescreen Review comments on Airforce One Superbit DVD:

"Like the differences between the other Superbit titles we have reviewed, this DVD utilizes a higher bit rate, but visually, the differences between the two versions are not astronomical."

Widescreen Review comments on The 5th Element Superbit DVD:

"The disc does utilize a higher bit rate than the previous version, but visually, the two versions are very similar (if not appearing identical -- many viewers will be hard-pressed to see any visual differences)."

------------------
Home Theater Photos at: http://members5.clubphoto.com/kathy376507/



[This message has been edited by Ed Csoltko (edited 09-20-2001).]

Home Theater Photos:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

System Components:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ed Csoltko is offline  
post #26 of 42 Old 09-20-2001, 11:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Hank527's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: York,Pa
Posts: 1,820
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
And I was hoping they would eliminate edge enhancement with these titles. It sucks that they did not.

I was lucky in the order, but I've always been lucky when it comes to killin' folk - Unforgiven cannot wait for the hd-dvd of this gem
Hank527 is offline  
post #27 of 42 Old 09-20-2001, 12:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
K_Thompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 1,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If the Widescreen Review guys don't see a much improved picture on the equipment they use, what are the chances that the rest of us will?

Ken

------------------
If you can't convince them, confuse them.
K_Thompson is offline  
post #28 of 42 Old 09-20-2001, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ed Csoltko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So who is going to purchase Superbit DVDs and replace their existing DVDs at an increased cost and no substantial video and sound improvement? (I'll sell you some of my LDs that outperform some of my DVDs at the Superbit price.)

------------------
Home Theater Photos at: http://members5.clubphoto.com/kathy376507/

[This message has been edited by Ed Csoltko (edited 09-20-2001).]

Home Theater Photos:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

System Components:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ed Csoltko is offline  
post #29 of 42 Old 09-20-2001, 08:00 PM
Senior Member
 
DevoX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Omaha, NE, USA
Posts: 453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Ed Csoltko:
Widescreen Review comments on The 5th Element Superbit DVD:

"many viewers will be hard-pressed to see any visual differences)."
Including themselves, I guess.

I am sorry, but the majority of their reviews are wrong... they must have tested it in their "Grade Z" room with the 12-inch black and white 1970 GE portable.

-- Robert

Robert
DevoX is offline  
post #30 of 42 Old 09-21-2001, 01:19 PM
Advanced Member
 
Bjoern Roy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: German Videophile (terminally anal-retentive)
Posts: 888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Robert,

enough is enough. Please stop the profanity or take your attitude to the newsgroups.

I have read your comments about MPEG2 bitrate on this and the various other superbit threads here. You keep on calling others 'clowns' (Savageone79 on the other thread, now the folks at Widescreen Review) and insult their equipment and opinions.

Some quotes from you:

Quote:
Fixing the bitrate at 7 megabits for video will, without a doubt, produce a remarkable difference in picture quality and should be easily noticable. Anybody who understands how MPEG works will know this.
A fixed bitrate is probably the dumbest thing you can do to a MPEG stream. You are wasting bits where you don't need them and don't have peaking capabilities where you need them.

Quote:
Even during a static scene, even when those of you would cry foul about "wasted bits", the bits are not wasted. The encoder simply uses all the available bitspace to encode the image. This will result in much less artifacting, better color quality in low contrast scenes, less pixilization, etc. etc.

Trust me guys, this is a good thing.
Nonsense, like Savageone79 said in the another thread, there is a point of diminishing returns bitrate wise at every frame of the stream (I,B or P frame). Above that more bitrate is a waste of space.

Quote:
You'll love it, trust me. That clown who so brazenly told me I am "wrong" for stating (the fact) that these SuperBit discs will look better simply do not understand.
From his post, it seemed like this 'clown' Savageone79 knows more about MPEG than you do.

Quote:
I've seen MPEG comparisons at the bitrates in question... hands down: higher fixed rate is always better than lower VBR.
Of course 7Mbit constant will look better than 3-6 (4.5 average), doh! Thats comparing apples to oranges. To be fair you would have to compare 2 streams with the same average bitrate. 5-9 variable (7 average) would certainly look better than 7 constant.

A fixed bitrate simply is stupid. Who said that the superbit DVDs are going to have a fixed bitrate anyway? Higher average yes, but fixed? If a movie is so short that you can max out your bitrate all the time, thats a different story.

While i agree that a higher bitrate won't make the picture worse, i don't agree at all that increasing the bitrate alone would increase the picture quality marginally on most of today DVDs.

The most prominent problems with todays transfers are:

a) edge enhancement
b) black level detail, contrast and shadow delineation
c) detail
d) noise
e) correct color temperature and saturation
f) MPEG artefacts
g) print flaws

Higher bitrate can't help with a), b), c), e) and g).

f) is only a problem if detail or noise is too much for a given bitrate. A very detailed AND noisy transfer needs quite a high bitrate. Very detailed but noisefree transfers like Gladiator, Braveheart or Rules don't.

Columbia/Sony transfer weaknesses are typically in the a), b) and c) areas. MPEG artefacting is the one area where CTHV has excelled since 1997 with only a few exceptions. So simply increasing the bitrate on the same transfer would do NOTHING to their transfers.

What they could do, however, is 1) filtering the picture a little less, thus revealing a bit more detail, and 2) using less digital noise reduction. Then they could use the higher bitrate to compensate for any slight MPEG artefacting that might occur with the higher detail/noise visible.

Then use no EE, pay attention to black detail and contrast and bingo, you have a killer tranfer like the other studios put out constantly without calling it superbit.

Warner should call their 'Pledge' transfer MEGABIT http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif




------------------
"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity" (Bullet Tooth Tony in 'Snatch')
My HT in action (Screenshot Page) | My Ultimate 'Edge Enhancement' Guide | My DVD/LD SPL page

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity" (Bullet Tooth Tony in 'Snatch')

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bjoern Roy is offline  
Closed Thread Movies, Concerts, and Music Discussion

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off