I like my flix "clean"? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 450 Old 04-26-2005, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Not that I believe in censorship per se’, and for me personally the below link would not interest me in any way at my age and plus our kids are grown, but with the last few (several, whatever) years, I should have seen this coming! Just like the Soviet crumble and John Paul’s funeral, the so-called mainstream media had to yank the cameras from what they thought was interesting “news†elsewhere to cover what was really happening with real people under real circumstances in the real world.

Not that Hollywood merits an honorable mention alongside the above two events, but again, the so-called mainstream media, has missed the boat when it comes to mainstream America!

What would REALLY be cool… and something I might be interested in… would be to purchase DVDs with edited-out/supplanted actors! That would be GREAT!

http://www.cleanflicks.com/

Emergency, everybody to get from street.
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post #2 of 450 Old 04-26-2005, 10:41 PM
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I rented something called S*n City from them. I thought it was going to be about the retirement place in Arizona but I was really disappointed. It was only 3 minutes long.
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post #3 of 450 Old 04-26-2005, 11:59 PM
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They have "Sideways" edited? Why? Is that really something that the kids want to watch? I can't believe that this service is legal.
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post #4 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 05:55 AM
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Yeah, hard to imagine that this is legal. Raises the question of how they are edited -- copied sans "offensive content", then distributed? Wouldn't that be illegal copying or does Hollywood offer the expurgated versions themselves? Can't imagine that the original DVD itself has been altered in such as way as to trigger the editing by your player while it actually retains the full-length presentation, although this is exactly the stategy of the V-chip is it not?

In any event, each family to their own style of perpetrating/perpetuating ignorance, but for my own incomprehension, I have never understood any value to "shielding" any age child from sexual material, nudity, sex acts.

I do think I understand the motivations of adults who are embarrassed/discomfited by sexual matters as a very personal unwillingness to deal with issues such as insecurity about ones sexual desirability, possibly related issues of jealousy, unresolved sexual feelings toward family members, etc. But these are the common irrefutable, unavoidable essentials of the human condition.

To then operate out of these personal defects and impose a moratorium on sexual content in the home or society at large by labeling sexual matters "dirty" or "filthy" (or whatever pejoratives) is human evil rearing its head.

Not incidentally, this repression in turn spawns a constellation of unhealthy orientations to sex, the opposite sex, ones own body image, etc., etc., etc., and is responsible in my view for the preponderance of such societal ills as murders, rape, family violence, etc.

Any time such a powerful human drive is not given the opportunity to flower and evolve within the context of a loving, accepting, even praising family and society, it manages to first get submerged into some dark recess of the psyche but will ultimately emerge in some twisted, unfortunate form.

One twisted form this repressed and unhealthy orientation to sex takes on is the urge to perpetuate the repression, such as in the current example. When we are associating the terms "dirty" and "filthy" with sex, whose interests are we serving? Sex obviously has little to do with actual soil, but it is such a commonplace expression that I'm sure most do not blink an eye when they hear of "cleaned up" versions of movies.

By ignoring, repressing, excising, deleting this awesomely large element of the human psyche, it is the least healthy among us who are shaping our mental and spiritual destinies and we are complicit to the extent that we do not point it out.
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post #5 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 06:19 AM
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I can't understand how this is legal. They're taking a copyrighted work and modifying it with the intention of selling/renting to make a profit, no? If I took a new movie and essentially made my own edited version and then tried to sell it, something tells me the MPAA would be all over me like white on rice. Isn't there some sort of copyright protection for the content creators? How on earth are they getting away with it?

Oh, BTW Emaych, that was a well-reasoned post. I agree with every word. This kind of attitude (sex is dirty) leads to a whole host of social pathologies.
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post #6 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 06:31 AM
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This is strange because they are sending you DVDs they made?

I think its horrible. I can see editing maybe PG movies to take out some foul words for kids, but editing R rated movies is just stupid and beyond anything I can even come close to comprehending.

Oh honey kids want to watch Texas Chainsaw Massacre again. Please put in the edited Henry and June.

Why stop there alot of porn movies could use some editing.

No wait I think we should start an unclean DVD service where extra nudity and language is added. Hell we can start with superman we will take the film edit in some hard core xxx sex scenes between superman and louis and you have a movie for everyone.

lame this service should be shut down or a service where they reinstate all lost nudity boob slippage and fould words back in should be started, I still want to see some of that "Closer" footage :)

I was lucky in the order, but I've always been lucky when it comes to killin' folk - Unforgiven cannot wait for the hd-dvd of this gem
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post #7 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 06:37 AM
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OMG check this out

They have "Saw"

http://www.cleanflicks.com/movieList...tml?genre_id=6


This is the funniest and most stupid business ever!!! I hope they burn! Hollywood and the MPAA should be all over their ass.


This holy values crap has no business in the film industry. Please make Doom involve hell instead of aliens!!!!

I was lucky in the order, but I've always been lucky when it comes to killin' folk - Unforgiven cannot wait for the hd-dvd of this gem
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post #8 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 06:39 AM
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I wonder if this is the place airlines get the movies they show on flights. They have to get the cleaned up movies from some place.
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post #9 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hank527
OMG check this out

They have "Saw"

....
And on the other extreme, they edited two rated G titles.
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post #10 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 09:39 AM
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Unbelievable.

Heard of this quite some time ago.

Only reason I can think that Hollywood and the MPAA is not after them, is they probably have the backing and influence of our Commander in Chief.


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post #11 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 09:53 AM
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Emaych, that was a very good post!

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post #12 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 09:59 AM
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Emaych, I couldn't agree with you more.

Anyone who is offended by the site of a beautiful naked woman, is someone I don't want to be around, and that includes other women

From my own experience, people I have met that have been repressively shielded from sex are the same people that go bonkers when they are finally free of their parents grip.

I remember a few girls in college who were born again's when they showed up to school and condemned all non marital activity, and by the end of Freshman year they had been around half the campus (not literally but you get the idea).

Repression only makes things more desirable. Same thing occurs with Alcohol and Drug prohibition, but I won't get started on that. :)
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post #13 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 10:19 AM
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I have to agree with the other opinions expressed here, that A) these kinds of services are very questionable both legally and in terms of what they are trying to achieve and B) that the supression of sexuality in this country, I guess a side effect of the fact that it was originally invaded by emotionally disfunctional people from Europe who also brought us witch burnings and the Inquisition, is the very origin of the mass marketing of boatloads of cheapened sexuality in the media. They've made it such a desirable commodity by attempting to supress it, that people will buy it in almost any form.

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post #14 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by davdev
Emaych, I couldn't agree with you more.

Anyone who is offended by the site of a beautiful naked woman, is someone I don't want to be around, and that includes other women

From my own experience, people I have met that have been repressively shielded from sex are the same people that go bonkers when they are finally free of their parents grip.

I remember a few girls in college who were born again's when they showed up to school and condemned all non marital activity, and by the end of Freshman year they had been around half the campus (not literally but you get the idea).

Repression only makes things more desirable. Same thing occurs with Alcohol and Drug prohibition, but I won't get started on that. :)
Well, then, I'm sure you'll be interested in attending this:

http://www.christiannudistconvocation.com/
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post #15 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 10:56 AM
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http://www.christiannudistconvocation.com/

These are the people we need to get on our side to put an end to this



We need more high class british porn.:) "Almost, Almost, Almost, Almost"


Really this is a joke and should not be allowed.

If this is allowed I want to get the RFQ for clothing to cover Michealangelo's David since surely we should not see penis.

Why stop there we could open clean museums. The ultra conservative or whatever the group is supporting these things are crazy.

I was lucky in the order, but I've always been lucky when it comes to killin' folk - Unforgiven cannot wait for the hd-dvd of this gem
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post #16 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 10:56 AM
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It's perfectly legal to buy a book, cross-out sections you don't like, and then sell it to someone else. What CleanFlicks is doing is effectively the same thing. Am I interested in getting stuff from them - no. But live and let live, guys.

Fighting services like this, which give the consumer a choice, just increases the pressure for more drastic measures like censorship. We really don't want to go there. I support cable a-la-carte for the same reason.

My cable provider is Netflix
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post #17 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 11:01 AM
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Well, then, I'm sure you'll be interested in attending this:

http://www.christiannudistconvocation.com/


__________________

Wow! Neat! You learn the most interesting things from this forum.
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post #18 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 11:06 AM
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It's perfectly legal to buy a book, cross-out sections you don't like, and then sell it to someone else. What CleanFlicks is doing is effectively the same thing. Am I interested in getting stuff from them - no. But live and let live, guys.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, no. If this company does not have the studio's permission to edit these movies, that means they are ripping through the macrovison encryption and editing the movie and then burning/pressing new versions, that would not be legal. It wouldn't surprise me if these were just burned onto single layer DVD-R's either.

I am not sure that is what they are doing, but it seems to me that is basically what they are doing. Does anyone know if this company has permission from the MPAA to do this?
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post #19 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robmeister
I wonder if this is the place airlines get the movies they show on flights. They have to get the cleaned up movies from some place.
The director or studio usually sanctions these so-called cleaner versions for Airports and broadcast TV, sometimes even filming and recording alternate takes/dialog. Its still the directors vision of the movie.

These services are doing the editing themselves and whether motivated by profit or not they are selling someone elses product that is protected by copyright. I see no problem with a person editing a movie at home for his own family using a PC or that new clean DVD player (at work right now, can't think of the link) but as soon as they sell it or rent it I think they're infringing on copyright.

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post #20 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 11:12 AM
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The clearPlay DVD player edits the content without needing to create a copy of the disc.

http://www.clearplay.com/About.aspx

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post #21 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 11:27 AM
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Wow, there certainly are a lot of stereotypes being bandied about here. My parents didn't allow me to watch R rated films or films with nudity in them when I was a kid (not even on TV after they were edited) but I'm not some crazy psycho killer, rapist, etc. I've known plenty of people who were raised that way and none of them turned out as screwed up individuals. On the other hand I knew plenty of violent bully types that were allowed to watch whatever they wanted. So, by this anecdotal evidence can we determine that allowing children to watch whatever they want turns them violent? I think not.

I'm against this service, but I don't see anything wrong with people raising their children without showing them "Natural Born Killers" (which is a brilliant film, but I wouldn't show it to kids) or "Sin City". I wouldn't show them a film like "Sideways" either.

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Not incidentally, this repression in turn spawns a constellation of unhealthy orientations to sex, the opposite sex, ones own body image, etc., etc., etc., and is responsible in my view for the preponderance of such societal ills as murders, rape, family violence, etc.
Sounds like a bunch of academic crap to me, have you ever known anyone who was raised in such an environment? Just because someone is not exposed to nudity in the media doesn't mean they aren't exposed to it. First off, it is impossible to avoid all sexual situations in TV/Movies unless you don't allow the children to see ANY media. Second, children are pretty smart and tend to ask their parents how women get pregnant and such. It isn't necessary to see it on TV/in a movie in order to wonder about such things. It has more to do with a good family environment than it has to do with whether you've been shielded from sex in movies.
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post #22 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 11:35 AM
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Does anyone know if this company has permission from the MPAA to do this?
This article is old, but given the fact that the company is still around it must either still be in litigation or clean flicks won:

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hilden/20020903.html
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post #23 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 11:59 AM
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http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...od_2&printer=1

WASHINGTON - President Bush on Wednesday signed legislation aimed at helping parents keep their children from seeing sex scenes, violence and foul language in movie DVDs.

The bill gives legal protections to the fledgling filtering technology that helps parents automatically skip or mute sections of commercial movie DVDs. Bush signed it privately and without comment, White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

The legislation came about because Hollywood studios and directors had sued to stop the manufacture and distribution of such electronic devices for DVD players. The movies' creators had argued that changing the content — even when it is considered offensive — would violate their copyrights.

The legislation, called the Family Entertainment and Copyright Act, creates an exemption in copyright laws to make sure companies selling filtering technology won't get sued out of existence.

Critics of the bill have argued it was aimed at helping one company, Utah-based ClearPlay Inc., whose technology is used in some DVD players. ClearPlay sells filters for hundreds of movies that can be added to such DVD players for $4.95 each month. Hollywood executives maintain that ClearPlay should pay them licensing fees for altering their creative efforts.

Unlike ClearPlay, some other companies produce edited DVD copies of popular movies and sell them directly to consumers.

In a nod to the studios, the legislation contains crackdowns on copyright infringement by explicitly providing no legal protections for those companies that sell copies of the edited movies, creating new penalties for criminals who use small videocameras to record copies of first-run films in movie theaters, and setting tough penalties for anyone caught distributing a movie or song prior to its commercial release.

The legislation also reauthorizes a Library of Congress program dedicated to saving rare, culturally significant works, such as home movies, silent-era films and other works that are unlikely to be protected by the big studios.
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post #24 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 12:01 PM
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So looks like congress will not save this site.

I really have no problem with the whole Clearplay thing, but editing the movie and the renting the edited version seems to be a whole different animal.

And I am one that normally comes down on the side of fair use, but this does not seem like fair use.
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post #25 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 12:02 PM
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"Sounds like a bunch of academic crap to me, have you ever known anyone who was raised in such an environment? Just because someone is not exposed to nudity in the media doesn't mean they aren't exposed to it. First off, it is impossible to avoid all sexual situations in TV/Movies unless you don't allow the children to see ANY media. Second, children are pretty smart and tend to ask their parents how women get pregnant and such. It isn't necessary to see it on TV/in a movie in order to wonder about such things. It has more to do with a good family environment than it has to do with whether you've been shielded from sex in movies."


Here's just a quick one 'cause I gotta run. I submit we as Americans are all raised in an environment of sexual repression to greater or lesser detriment of our personal mental health. Fact is, you do not see sex acts depicted on broadcast TV due to this repression.

Will repressed powerful urges find inappropriate avenues of expression? I submit they will on a societal basis.

I think the kids you are describing must come out of an overall permissive, undisciplined or unchaperoned environment. This is alot different than being perfectly comfortable with raising kids with complete ease and openess vis a vis sexual matters.

Ask yourself why we are trying to hide ANY aspect of this most important area from children -- it should rank at least as high as employment in depictions, exposure, comfort level, education, information, etc. -- the whole nine yards.

Told you that was going to be brief, but that's all for my time.
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post #26 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by floydman
The clearPlay DVD player edits the content without needing to create a copy of the disc.

http://www.clearplay.com/About.aspx
CleanFlicks is a different service, which somehow rips the disc (most likely by decrypting the digital stream) and then re-recording it on a second DVD. Each "cleaned" copy is sold together with the original so the studio is not getting ripped off. IIRC, the MPAA has taken CleanFlicks to court over this but up to now CleanFlicks has prevailed (or at least, not lost).

Unlike Europe, American copyright tradtion has never been based on "droits d'auteurs" (so-called moral rights of authors to control their works).

My cable provider is Netflix
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post #27 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 12:03 PM
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Great I support a player that has parental controls that muffles bad dialog thats cool technology.

But what this other place is doing is illegal they are editing movies and to do that they are copying copyrighted material. Also they are doing it for profit which is hurting the film industry

IE they are worse than a movie pirate who downloads a film, they are about the same a a person in the theatre with a camcorder or asian knock off artists

I was lucky in the order, but I've always been lucky when it comes to killin' folk - Unforgiven cannot wait for the hd-dvd of this gem
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post #28 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hank527
Also they are doing it for profit which is hurting the film industry
How are they hurting the film industry, when CleanFlicks pays for each copy? The profit they make is for their service of editing, not for the movie itself. Overall they HELP the film industry, by expanding the audience for the films they edit.

The obvious question, of course, is why the studios don't release these edited versions themselves instead of leaving it to a third party? I think the answer is largely because the producers get their jollies (and accolades from their peers) by tweaking the noses of folks with less "advanced" views.

My cable provider is Netflix
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post #29 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by joekun
My parents didn't allow me to watch R rated films or films with nudity in them when I was a kid (not even on TV after they were edited) but I'm not some crazy psycho killer, rapist, etc.
That you know of! But what about all those times you black out, and hours are missing from your memory? You really have no idea of the harm done to you by not seeing sex as a child. :D :D

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post #30 of 450 Old 04-27-2005, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
I think the kids you are describing must come out of an overall permissive, undisciplined or unchaperoned environment.
It sounds like you're making my point here. There are many other factors involved than what sort of media you are exposed to.

Quote:
Fact is, you do not see sex acts depicted on broadcast TV due to this repression.
Are you really advocating a no-hold-barred standard for television? So hardcore porn would be alright then? That sells. I'm sure there would be many hardcore porn channels available on broadcast TV if it were allowed.

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Ask yourself why we are trying to hide ANY aspect of this most important area from children
I already know the answer, at least from my own family's perspective. My parents never hid any aspect of sexuality from their children. They simply didn't want the entertainment industry to teach us about it. I don't really have a problem with that. I'm sure that there are some ill people out there that fit the circumstances you are describing, but I think it is a small minority.

The bottom line is that you have a choice. If you want to let your children watch "The Sopranos" you have that option. If you don't want them to see anything you can not buy a TV or use the V-Chip to keep them from watching different levels of programming. I don't see a problem with choice. I do have a problem with a company offering alternate versions of a movie not sanctioned by the copyright owner.

Given that this is a home theater forum I'm going to leave it at that. I don't really feel like arguing politics on this forum, it's just difficult to turn my head from the rampant intolerance that is taking over this forum. I am not referring to you, Emaych, as you did say to each their own, which I agree with.
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