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post #1 of 584 Old 09-17-2005, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, it is time to get excited. King Kong is coming December 14th and is going to be great. Peter Jackson will do it again. A new DVD of the original will be released in November and should be rather good with releases of Son of Kong and Mighty Joe Young as well.

If you are interested in what is going on with King Kong check out the trailer at official King Kong site

http://www.kingkongmovie.com/

Also check out the news and photos and even Peter Jackson's production diaries at the fan site, KongisKing.net.

http://www.kongisking.net/index.shtml

I am absolutely psyched! Loved the original, it is a great classic, and none of the remake or sequel attempts have been very good so this will be something! I am also planning on attending the premiere in New York, December 5th. 8000 people and 3000 fans!!!

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post #2 of 584 Old 09-17-2005, 12:53 PM
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I really want to be excited about this one, but the trailer completely deflated all of my expectations.

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post #3 of 584 Old 09-17-2005, 06:26 PM
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Yea, this movie won't get my money in theater, rent, or purchase of DVD to own.

Now when Peter Jackson gets the green light for the Hobbit, that'll be a different story.
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post #4 of 584 Old 09-17-2005, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linthat22
Yea, this movie won't get my money in theater, rent, or purchase of DVD to own.
Man that's kind of a rash and harsh statement to make a full 3 months before the movie is even released. Why all the venom toward this version? Nobody seems to love genre pics more than Peter Jackson. And I think he's earned the right to re-make a movie like King Kong.
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post #5 of 584 Old 09-17-2005, 08:32 PM
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The trailer looks like a movie about a giant gorilla. The original was about KING KONG.
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post #6 of 584 Old 09-17-2005, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eweiss
The trailer looks like a movie about a giant gorilla. The original was about KING KONG.
The marketing guys make the trailer, not the director. It seems premature to me to judge the movie based on what the marketing guys say. The movie will speak for itself, be it good or bad.
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post #7 of 584 Old 09-17-2005, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z
I really want to be excited about this one, but the trailer completely deflated all of my expectations.
Couldn't agree more. I work in the visual effects business, and I'm just sick
to death of the ("wave of the future") trend in shooting ENTIRE movies against
greenscreens. The Star Wars prequels really made me tired of the fake-ness of
it. Jackson, along with Lucas, Rodriguez et. al. keep touting how great this is,
for them as directors and for us as filmgoers. So much freedom and creativity
blah blah blah. I'd be behind it if the "worlds" they were creating weren't looking
more and more like a videogame. And the poor actors who have to stand around
in outlandish costumes all alone surrounded with nothing but green, trying to
give believeable nuanced performances...well, we've seen the results of that.

The footage in the trailer just looked incredibly...well, fake.

In behind the scenes footage of Naomi Watts on set, she just looks pissed.
I don't blame her. :mad:
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post #8 of 584 Old 09-17-2005, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eweiss
The trailer looks like a movie about a giant gorilla. The original was about KING KONG.
Bingo.

I don't have a problem with the CGI or the "digital backlot" style, which is supposed to look sort of fakey like an old movie with too many matte paintings anyway. It's the fact that Kong looks like a larger than average gorilla that kills it for me. KING KONG is supposed to be the mack daddy of all movie monsters. I just don't get that sense from any of the footage in the trailer. At all. Even the horrendous 70s remake got the imposing nature of Kong right. I think Jackson has chosen the entirely wrong approach for the material.

I hope I'm wrong, and the movie turns out better than it looks, but we'll see.

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post #9 of 584 Old 09-17-2005, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z
I don't have a problem with the CGI or the "digital backlot" style, which is supposed to look sort of fakey like an old movie with too many matte paintings anyway.
Just because it looks fake, don't assume it's intentional. Sometimes it is (Sky Captain)
and sometimes it's not (SW prequels)
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post #10 of 584 Old 09-17-2005, 09:23 PM
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Size is the most important aspect of the original Kong movie? Guess that whole beauty and the beast thing must have been filler.

As to judging a movie's final effects based on a trailer, whatever. :rolleyes:

Quote:
I think Jackson has chosen the entirely wrong approach for the material.
I'll side with Jackson on this for now. He seemed to have a grasp on LOTR and he is a Kong addict. :cool: :D

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post #11 of 584 Old 09-17-2005, 10:41 PM
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The original Kong was other-worldly looking, extremely expressive and downright scary to me. Jackson's Kong is a big gorilla with tiny, dark, overbrowed eyes.

There is such a thing as too realistic.

Hope it works.
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post #12 of 584 Old 09-17-2005, 11:02 PM
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I'm going to buy the DVD of the original Kong the day it comes out. I try to watch it every time it's on TCM.

I saw the '76 remake at the theater when I was 6 years old and thought it was great. But remember, I was only 6; I loved the Superfriends and Mr. Rogers back then too. When it's on TV now, I only watch it long enough to look at Jessica Lange and marvel at how hot she used to be.

I will go see the new one at the theater because Peter Jackson made Dead Alive and LOTR. I trust him to do something cool with Kong. Of course, I could be wrong and it could suck, but I'm not going to prejudge something based on a friggin trailer.

Roll Tide!
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post #13 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 02:44 AM
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I completely avoid trailers now, can't stand even the slightest spoiler - so I haven't seen Kong's but Jackson did say he'll be working on the Ape's appearance until very late in the day. Is it the size of Kong that has people worried? Isn't he just a Big Ape anyway? Forgive me, I can't remember the original :).
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post #14 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Everybody is judging Kong by his looks. Many an actor has pulled off a role not by his looks, but by his acting. The real power of Kong in the original was not his looks, it is what he did and how he acted. (His looks by todays standards would just be goofy). Don't judge Peter Jackson's Kong just on the trailer or on the fact that he looks like a giant gorilla. (BTW the original was supposed to look like a giant gorilla) Wait until you see him act (of which we saw very little) He is going to be amazing. Imagine the true agility and speed of a real gorilla and then imagine a 25 foot gorilla with the same agility and speed. Now imagine someone can take all this and make it believeable on screen. Peter Jackson will.

Another thing to remember: Don't judge the trailer on cgi, it wasn't finished yet.

Personally, I, and everyone else in the theater, thought the trailer was awesome. This is going to be some story.

There is also a problem with today's special effects; they are so good and so frequent that I think people are looking too hard for it to be fake. It may be as realistic as can be, but they will see something fantastic and go, "looks fake to me". It is all the rage to be critical. Several movies recently I have heard complaints about the special effects and when I watched them they were fine. I don't need perfection, just good story telling.

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post #15 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 09:23 AM
 
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I can't wait to see this. I saw the Trailer in HD a few times and at the movies a few times and I loved it. I think it looks awesome. I don't know what you guys are talking about. You guys are very hard to please. Its not like its Godzilla,King Kong in the trailers looks like King Kong to me. Its also got Jack Black,Colin Hanks and Niami Watts so pretty big star power. I will be seeing this opening weekend. J.H.
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post #16 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 10:23 AM
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This looks like it will be awesome. The settings look spectacular, the acting, so far, looks good, the story sure seems the same to me, at least as much as is shown in the trailer. But, the entire product looks to be possibly better than the original and that is what I hope for. This one certainly looks to be better than the other remake and that would be better than nothing.

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post #17 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Sytsma
As to judging a movie's final effects based on a trailer, whatever. :rolleyes:
Yeah! I'm with you. It's like looking at a book's few pages on Amazon.com and deciding the whole thing sucks.

We live in such a superficial culture it is SAD.

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post #18 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan G.
The original Kong was other-worldly looking, extremely expressive and downright scary to me. Jackson's Kong is a big gorilla with tiny, dark, overbrowed eyes.

There is such a thing as too realistic.

Hope it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan G.
The original Kong was other-worldly looking, extremely expressive and downright scary to me. Jackson's Kong is a big gorilla with tiny, dark, overbrowed eyes.

There is such a thing as too realistic.

Hope it works.
Well, since King Kong *is* a "big gorilla", I suppose it makes sense that Jackson's version *looks* like a big gorilla. The original was supposed to look *exactly* like a big gorilla, too, but they were constrained by the technology available at the time.

And, from the trailer (which I've seen several times now), he doesn't look like a big gorilla...he looks like a GIANT gorilla. When his hand scoops up the damsel, she's absolutely tiny by comparison...just like King Kong is supposed to be.

So, I guess if so many people are having an issue with King Kong looking like a giant gorilla, what would you prefer? A giant lizard, or perhaps a giant furry thing that somewhat resembles a gorilla?

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post #19 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattepntr
Couldn't agree more. I work in the visual effects business, and I'm just sick
to death of the ("wave of the future") trend in shooting ENTIRE movies against
greenscreens. The Star Wars prequels really made me tired of the fake-ness of
it. Jackson, along with Lucas, Rodriguez et. al. keep touting how great this is,
for them as directors and for us as filmgoers. So much freedom and creativity
blah blah blah. I'd be behind it if the "worlds" they were creating weren't looking
more and more like a videogame. And the poor actors who have to stand around
in outlandish costumes all alone surrounded with nothing but green, trying to
give believeable nuanced performances...well, we've seen the results of that.

The footage in the trailer just looked incredibly...well, fake.

In behind the scenes footage of Naomi Watts on set, she just looks pissed.
I don't blame her. :mad:

Grant you, that CGI isn't up to full par just yet. But sheesh! Give them a little credit. It still looks a whole lot better than the "older" stuff with nothing but Stop Motion and Matt Paintings. Yes, Lucas seems to carry it a bit too far. But just look at the new Battlestar Galactica compared to the original. The new one totally outshines the original, and it is mainly due to CGI advancments.

I'm chomping at the bit for "The Hobbit" as well. But, filming rights seem to be out of PJ's hands for the moment.

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post #20 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eweiss
The trailer looks like a movie about a giant gorilla. The original was about KING KONG.
My remarks weren't really about the effects in 1931 vs. the effects in 2005. I was faulting the fact that the trailer doesn't convey the story of KING KONG - i.e., on Skull Island, he was the ruler/master of all he surveyed, the King of the island, striking fear in the hearts of the natives, and able to tackle any beast who attacked him. He was invincible. Whatever Kong wanted, Kong got.

But then along comes a blonde waif, and his fierceness turns to curiosity, and his curiosity to protectiveness and affection, and that ends up contributing to his undoing. "It was beauty killed the beast." The opening title card in the film ("And the Prophet said, 'And lo, the beast looked upon the face of beauty. And it stayed its hand from killing. And from that day, it was as one dead.'") set the tone, and Carl Denham's words at the end summed it all up.

Maybe PJ considers that too "sappy" for today's audience, at least as far as the trailer is concerned; he seems to be marketing it as a Big Monster movie, with thrilling adventure and CGI fights.

I suspect the personality of Kong and the relationship between him and Ann, and the "Beauty killed the beast" theme, will indeed come through in the movie, which will make it great. At least I hope so. I cannot imagine that Jackson fell in love with King Kong just because of O'Brien's animation. If so, and it's just a "big monster" movie, it will be all body and no soul.
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post #21 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattepntr
The Star Wars prequels really made me tired of the fake-ness of
it. Jackson, along with Lucas, Rodriguez et. al. keep touting how great this is,
for them as directors and for us as filmgoers.
What Rodriguez did was take a very stylized graphic novell by Frank Miller and bring it to the screen. That movie *was* Sin City. There's absolutely, positively, 100% NO WAY that could have been done without CGI. Trying to make that as a "regular" movie would have taken away *everything* about it that was Frank Miller. It was because of what Rodriguez was able to show Miller during the demo that made Miller accept to make the movie. He was very down on Hollywood, and had no intention of making Sin City if it couldn't be done right.

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post #22 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko85
What Rodriguez did was take a very stylized graphic novell by Frank Miller and bring it to the screen. That movie *was* Sin City. There's absolutely, positively, 100% NO WAY that could have been done without CGI. Trying to make that as a "regular" movie would have taken away *everything* about it that was Frank Miller. It was because of what Rodriguez was able to show Miller during the demo that made Miller accept to make the movie. He was very down on Hollywood, and had no intention of making Sin City if it couldn't be done right.
When I watch the "King Kong" trailer, the shots that made me groan are the ones
where they're filming Ann at the beach. The problem with them isn't the CG background,
the problem is the lighting on the actors. It's flat, studio lighting that no amount of
fussing with in the computer is ever going to fix
. When people think of bad CG (like
a lot of stuff in "SW2"), they should really be looking at the way the actors are photographed.
This is the result of the digital backlot school of thought. I think the growing numbers
of directors who are pushing this concept, do so because they don't have to make
real decisions about what they want things to look like until the absolute last possible
second. And with production schedules getting shorter and shorter (including VFX),
and the number of FX shots growing to huge proportions when you film everything
against a greenscreen......well, do the math. 300 people doing 400 FX shots in 9 months= X amount of quality.
300 people doing 2500 FX shots in 8 months = Y amount of quality. That's just the
way it adds up.

I'm not criticizing "Sin City". I can't, because I haven't seen it. But I worked with
Rodriguez on "Shark Boy/ Lava Girl" (on real world sequences involving the kids
school) and we had all the familiar problems- trying to "fix" poorly lit, planned
and executed greenscreen footage with the actors.
I'm absolutely certain that the final effects in "King Kong" will look better than
the ones in the trailer. But I can pretty much guarantee that beach scene will
look more or less the same.

Good CGI? "War of the Worlds" = really really GOOD freaking AWESOME CG!
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post #23 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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The beach scene is my favorite scene in the trailer and the one scene that sells the whole movie. I did not notice and could care less about the lighting. I could see it and it looked real. I will wait to judge the movie, but, while lighting is important, what is REALLY important is how the story is told.

It looks to me like this story is going to be told very well.

Jackson is definitely keeping the "beauty and the beast" theme and has said that there will be a "relationship" between Kong and Ann.

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post #24 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar
But just look at the new Battlestar Galactica compared to the original. The new one totally outshines the original, and it is mainly due to CGI advancments.
I totally agree with you about BSG flying rings around the original. And while
I think the CG rocks on that show, I'd also give credit to their production
designer (for actually building sets instead of hanging greenscreens) their
cinematographer, their costumers, and especially the directors. Everybody
on that show is putting out 150%.
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post #25 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowstone Tim
while lighting is important, what is REALLY important is how the story is told.
Lighting, costumes, actors, cinematography, surroundings, FX etc. IS how the story is told.
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post #26 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko85
Well, since King Kong *is* a "big gorilla", I suppose it makes sense that Jackson's version *looks* like a big gorilla. The original was supposed to look *exactly* like a big gorilla, too, but they were constrained by the technology available at the time.

And, from the trailer (which I've seen several times now), he doesn't look like a big gorilla...he looks like a GIANT gorilla. When his hand scoops up the damsel, she's absolutely tiny by comparison...just like King Kong is supposed to be.

So, I guess if so many people are having an issue with King Kong looking like a giant gorilla, what would you prefer? A giant lizard, or perhaps a giant furry thing that somewhat resembles a gorilla?
Exactly! A big gorilla would be a male silverback over 550-600 lbs. A giant gorilla is a freak of evolution, supersized by certain advantageous environmental arrangements and a good dose of strong genes. King Kong, as depicted in the trailer, is a freakin' GIANT gorilla.

I love all the naysayers out and about right now who feel the need to destroy a movie before it's even released. Judge the work in its entirety or shut the hell up. :D :D :D

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post #27 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfyre
I love all the naysayers out and about right now who feel the need to destroy a movie before it's even released. Judge the work in its entirety or shut the hell up. :D :D :D
I've noticed an interesting phenomenon here at AVS. I'm not sure who else has
picked up on it.
I also spend quite a bit of time looking at the DVD players section, the receiver
section, speakers, displays et. al.
In those areas, people are HYPER aware of what the manufacturers of their
HT gear are doing in terms of quality, features, upgradability etc. We hold
those manufacturers to an incredibly high level of scrutiny and judgment.
We demand the best, and that each new generation of upscaling DVD player
fix the macroblocking issue, or passes blacker than black information.

Yet, when it comes to what we actually use all this stuff for, the actual
content itself, we seem to have an entirely different set of standards. Interesting.
Personally, I don't wish for movies to be bad. I want them to be good, as good as
the rig I'm going to watch them with. Others don't think it seems to matter
that much. To each their own.
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post #28 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinp8192
Man that's kind of a rash and harsh statement to make a full 3 months before the movie is even released. Why all the venom toward this version? Nobody seems to love genre pics more than Peter Jackson. And I think he's earned the right to re-make a movie like King Kong.
No, I don't think it's rash or harsh at all. I mean, look how many remakes came out this year. Horrible horrible horrible. I was never a KingKong fan and I was hoping since PJ is doing the movie I'd actually might change my opinion. Nope, still looks like a crap movie about an ape.
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post #29 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattepntr
Yet, when it comes to what we actually use all this stuff for, the actual
content itself, we seem to have an entirely different set of standards. Interesting.
Personally, I don't wish for movies to be bad. I want them to be good, as good as
the rig I'm going to watch them with. Others don't think it seems to matter
that much. To each their own.
I don't disagree with that, but since NONE OF US has even SEEN the new King Kong yet, all the negative reaction is unwarranted. Wait until you've seen it, then state your "review".

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post #30 of 584 Old 09-18-2005, 03:10 PM
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the thing i caught in the trailer that somewhat deflated my expectations for the film was...Jack Black.
when i first heard he was cast i groaned for a second, then i thought long and hard and came around to the opinion that he could be an inspired choice. Black understands the 'showman' mentality and that is the character in a nutshell.
if Black were actually a mature, nuanced personality in real life, and 'Jack Black' was mostly a theatrical persona, he could probably steal the film (assuming the writing is there).
but what i saw in the trailer was just 'Jack Black' in 30s fashion and 30s sets. can't tell completely from the snippets, but it looks to me like there isn't going to be a nuanced performance from the guy at this point in his career.

everything else looked potentially very entertaining, although this project really seems like it amounts to 'colorizing' the original.
people slam the 76 version, but between the two remakes, i'm pretty sure that one is going to remain the most iconoclastic- it and the original can exist quite easily with each other as they spin the material in different directions- Jacksons version, otoh, just seems to be here to 'overwrite' the original with better, more sensational, razzle dazzle that finally makes it acceptable for the camera cellphone generation today (who are loathe to touch a B&W film, let alone one from the creaky early sound era) to get this material.
and in a way, i find that more offensive to the original that the inane dialouge between Dwan and the ape from the 70s version.
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