The best shootout scene: 'Heat' or 'The Kingdom'? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 12:11 AM
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To be honest, I've never really been a big fan of Heat, but yeah - that shootout scene in Heat was really defining. I also had to rethink about The Kingdom (which I liked a lot) and the shootout in that movie since it was good but didn't stick out like it did in Heat. Someone said it blended in, which is a good description. The shootout in Heat was like the car chase in Ronin - it made me go HOLY CRAP!! WOW!!

Seems like I'm the only one that thought, though, that The Kingdom was a better movie overall.
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post #32 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GamerGuyX View Post



I have seen The Kingdom and I also vote for Heat.

+1

The one on Miami Vice is no slouch either.

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post #33 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 06:12 AM
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Seems like I'm the only one that thought, though, that The Kingdom was a better movie overall.[/quote]

Your going to take some HEAT for that choice.

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post #34 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 06:34 AM
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I loved the kingdom quite possibly my favorite movie i saw in a theater for 2007 but it really cant hold up next to the Heat scene. I dont even think they are close really.

Heat set the mark and I dont see it being topped for me at least anytime soon.
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post #35 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 06:40 AM
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I loved the Kingdom. I saw it theatrically and on HD DVD(Twice now) and Heat still wins hands down.

Audio wise: Heat is better as well. The Kingdom just doesn't compare aurally to Heat.
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post #36 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 06:54 AM
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Own both, seen both, just watched Kingdom on HD DVD last night for the 2nd time.

Heat wins hands down. When it first came out I remember bringing my avr and Polk RT10s to my buddy's house who didnt have surround just so we can watch that movie and the shoot out scene.

I think driving by the set of the Kingdom in Mesa kind of ruined the surprise for me. The shoot out scene is good just IMO wasn't as intense as Heat.
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post #37 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 06:55 AM
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The Wild Bunch.
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post #38 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 07:07 AM
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Oddly enough, I have always thought the bang/hype ratio on Heat was off...

I would also nominate the RPG attack scene in Clear and Present Danger, and the final gunfight in Open Range as well...

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post #39 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbase1 View Post

Heat All The Way!

+1. Plus Heat is more realistic. Bullets do go through vehicles. Val Kilmer's mag changes are very well done considering Hollywood tends to leave out mag changes.
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post #40 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 07:15 AM
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Hate to admit it, but the only time I tried to watch Heat, I fell asleep. Guess I need to make it to the shootout scene to give an opinion. The Kingdom scene rocked my socks off though.

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post #41 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 07:16 AM
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The Way of the Gun, but that isn't on the list either.
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post #42 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 07:18 AM
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Smokin Aces j/k...Heat
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post #43 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 07:20 AM
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Heat wins in modern age.
If include Old West 6-gun age, I think Open Range would bump Heat.

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post #44 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 07:37 AM
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I vote for Heat across the board. The Kingdom is a very good movie, but doesn't hold up well to Heat IMO.

As far as old west shootouts, Open Range is OK but my favorite is the shootout in Tombstone. It's not that long but it's so well done.
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post #45 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMcCarthy View Post

Heat wins in modern age.
If include Old West 6-gun age, I think Open Range would bump Heat.

Chris.

+1 on that. Open Range was one of the few western shootouts that got it right. Everyone hid instead of standing out on the street, the guns ran out of bullets and they sounded real.

Heat still steals the win, though.

Heat was awesome the way the gunfire echoed off the buildings, the bullets went through the cars and there didn't seem to be a "camera direction" (an example is the over the shoulder shot of Val as he fires away from us, then turns around and fires back over the camera toward people behind him). Bystanders were hit and there was a very realistic lack of regard for others as De Niro attempts his escape. He doesn't care what happens - he just wants to get away. Of course, there's the reloading thing, too.

No contest.
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post #46 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 09:27 AM
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Quote:


The one on Miami Vice is no slouch either.

Yes, that deserves an honorable mention.

Quote:


+1. Plus Heat is more realistic. Bullets do go through vehicles.

I think that's the key to why Heat is the best shootout to date, it manages to feel eriely like a REAL scene. :0 The Kingdom scene is intense and great action but still feels like a movie scene with things like Foxx escaping rocket blasts at the last second.

For me though The Kingdom shootout connected to the fight scene which boosted the intensity on the whole.

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post #47 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 09:56 AM
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Heat, no contest.

The climactic shootout in the Kingdom was ruined (at least for me) by Berg’s overuse of the handheld camera style and rapid cutting. I have nothing against those techniques, but in this case they were overdone to the point of distraction and at the expense of tension and drama in the scene. More camera shaking does not equal more intensity or tension. Seemed like a lazy and weak directorial approach to me.
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post #48 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 11:25 AM
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I've not seen Kingdom, but it would be really hard to Beat the Heat, all around. It's one of those movies that manages to have a really thick atmosphere, good acting, great (but not exaggerated) action, and a lot of emotion for that kind of flick.

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post #49 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 11:35 AM
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I enjoyed the Heat shootout, however it struck me as a typical Hollwood shootout, Val and DeNiro expended about 900 rounds before a mag change, lol. They also seemed too "flamboyantly invincible", standing up and not really even seeking too much cover behind objects.
Always thought a 733 (Colt Commando) was sort of a large, not too concealable choice for a robbery, and wouldn't passerbys notice they're wearing gloves, carrying huge duffel bags, and see Sizemore's Galil barrel sticking out under his suit?
I'm sure if Mann filmed Heat today, the shootout would have more realism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0KzR...eature=related
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post #50 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 12:39 PM
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Speaking of Heat, one other Mann movie that had good, realistic gun shots, was Collateral. The shot Cruise unloads in that dark alley gave me a scare!

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post #51 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 02:25 PM
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Open Range!
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post #52 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

+1. Plus Heat is more realistic. Bullets do go through vehicles. Val Kilmer's mag changes are very well done considering Hollywood tends to leave out mag changes.

But still, can magazines hold that many bullets? It seemed like DeNiro shot over a hundred before he had to reload. It was shocking to see him coldly use an automatic weapon to clear a path through a bunch of cops like he was using a machette to cut through jungle brush with complete determination.

Heat also showed clever ideas like having the bad guys use spike strips to disable police cars. You know Michael Mann must have spent a lot of effort figuring out ways to commit crimes that no one had ever thought of before.

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post #53 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Lococco View Post

I enjoyed the Heat shootout, however it struck me as a typical Hollwood shootout, Val and DeNiro expended about 900 rounds before a mag change, lol. They also seemed too "flamboyantly invincible", standing up and not really even seeking too much cover behind objects.
Always thought a 733 (Colt Commando) was sort of a large, not too concealable choice for a robbery, and wouldn't passerbys notice they're wearing gloves, carrying huge duffel bags, and see Sizemore's Galil barrel sticking out under his suit?
I'm sure if Mann filmed Heat today, the shootout would have more realism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0KzR...eature=related

It's cool that you know your weapons. I disagree with you on a couple of points. My reference being the very real Bank of America shootout that took place in '97. Those 2 fellas casually walked, almost acting "flamboyantly invincible" as they put fire on LA's finest. They might have had heavier body armor than what was used in Heat but the AR's used in both were similar in caliber.
To your point that all their accessories werent 100% concealed, I dont think it was their intent to go totally unnoticed. That's why in the prior scene they discuss the risk of taking down that score. The heavy artillery suggests that they expected to be engaged at some point.
To me, the Bank of America shootout which took place 2 years after Heat was released almost added a certain realness to the movie's shootout scene.

I agree with you on changing mags. Very few directors pay attention to that detail.
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post #54 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 03:41 PM
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i used to bank at that BofA regularly ...
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post #55 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 03:58 PM
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i used to bank at that BofA regularly ...

Hopefully not that day
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post #56 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Lococco View Post

I enjoyed the Heat shootout, however it struck me as a typical Hollwood shootout, Val and DeNiro expended about 900 rounds before a mag change, lol. They also seemed too "flamboyantly invincible", standing up and not really even seeking too much cover behind objects.
Always thought a 733 (Colt Commando) was sort of a large, not too concealable choice for a robbery, and wouldn't passerbys notice they're wearing gloves, carrying huge duffel bags, and see Sizemore's Galil barrel sticking out under his suit?
I'm sure if Mann filmed Heat today, the shootout would have more realism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0KzR...eature=related

Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post

But still, can magazines hold that many bullets? It seemed like DeNiro shot over a hundred before he had to reload.

The characters are shown swapping magazines several times. Also, unlike a lot of shootouts, the characters conserve their individual amo by firing either short bursts or single shots.

As far as hiding, not only do the characters hide, but a couple get hit. Val, for example, hides behind a minivan.

Besides, they have the police pretty well hunkered down, so the rate of return fire is a lot lower. Their goal was to work their way out of their before they ran out of bullets. In their case, getting caught would be worse than dying.
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post #57 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 04:51 PM
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Kilmer and DeNiro reload once each, Kilmer is shown quickly removing the empty mag and slapping in a new one and hitting the bolt release on the left side. DeNiro is shown holding his 733, magazine already removed, and reaching for a new magazine. Pacino is shown inserting a new magazine into his FN FNC and pulling back the bolt handle while hiding behind a car, despite it being semi auto only, it didn't look like he shot too many rounds.
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post #58 of 79 Old 12-26-2007, 06:04 PM
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Another vote for "Heat", 2nd place: Kingdom, 3rd place: Scarface

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post #59 of 79 Old 12-27-2007, 07:13 AM
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Heat, not even close.

What I also love was the music/drum beat when they were in the bank.

The way Deniro/Kilmer/Sizemore moved in unison looked realistic in how they would do in real world.

As soon as I saw that real life bank robbery scene on the news, I thought of Heat.

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post #60 of 79 Old 12-27-2007, 07:32 AM
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Nobody mentioned the "Swordfish" bank robbery as even an honorable mention?
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