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post #361 of 4289 Old 06-17-2009, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JJkizak View Post

Scanning is easy. Try telling that to an 80 year old person who has trouble selecting 19.1, 25.4, etc. with a remote that has no lights and the buttons being way too small. Going into the menu is a "no way" thing for them. And what if you have about 4 or 5 different remotes? Disaster. My HD computer tuner will select "11.1" even if you hit "11" but the tv tuners will not. Old people don't get the .1 stuff.
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I can't see how you people navigate those cell phones!
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post #362 of 4289 Old 06-17-2009, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

Indeed. Requiring the additional .x may well be a limitation of the CECB boxes, I dunno, never tried one. With so few local OTA ch's available I'd tell anyone having issues with entering .x to simply use the ch UP and DOWN buttons.

But I would certainly suggest anyone try just the simple number with no .x as many tv's and tuners will function accordingly.

The Zenith pretty much set itself up! ... imagine Firedog wanted $79 to come out & set it up for you.
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post #363 of 4289 Old 06-17-2009, 10:23 PM
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Caught WTVJ Miami analog tonight on Channel 6, running their nightlight loop.

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post #364 of 4289 Old 06-18-2009, 08:23 AM
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After scanning on the Sony this morning picked up KNOP 2.1 from Nebraska intermittantly enough for the tuner to put it on the list.
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post #365 of 4289 Old 06-18-2009, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post

Caught WTVJ Miami analog tonight on Channel 6, running their nightlight loop.


Darn I missed that, Mid June is great for DX
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post #366 of 4289 Old 06-18-2009, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JJkizak View Post

After scanning on the Sony this morning picked up KNOP 2.1 from Nebraska intermittantly enough for the tuner to put it on the list.
JJK

I seemed to always pull in on 4 for some reason, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans & Miami. Thought I had something on 2 from Oklahoma City years ago. As I said my last was KDFW on 4 last Friday around the Cleveland shutoff time.

I was wondering about tropo on digital, which channels are prime, I would imagone 2, 3 & 4. Was thinking of parking it on 4.1 & seeing what happens.
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post #367 of 4289 Old 06-18-2009, 04:44 PM
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This "ducting" thing with 2.1 I believe was caused by that huge tornado maybe causing a rip in the space/time continuim.
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post #368 of 4289 Old 06-19-2009, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJkizak View Post

This "ducting" thing with 2.1 I believe was caused by that huge tornado maybe causing a rip in the space/time continuim.
JJK

That is a misnomer. They create wormholes, that connect two points in space, not tear the space-time continuum. A tear only benefits UHF for some reason.
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post #369 of 4289 Old 06-19-2009, 05:12 AM
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We should probably update the thread start page for post-DTV.
I know the actual ch's changed for 3 & 8 (17 & 8 respectively), there may be other corrections needed, I dunno.
Might also want to add "location" or something to differentiate between true local and extended coverage (requiring a larger antenna) to receive some of those stations.
Or maybe a symbol to differentiate between what is generally considered "local" for the basic coverage areas per metro region? Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown?
Just throwing some ideas out there.
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post #370 of 4289 Old 06-19-2009, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

We should probably update the thread start page for post-DTV.
I know the actual ch's changed for 3 & 8 (17 & 8 respectively), there may be other corrections needed, I dunno.
Might also want to add "location" or something to differentiate between true local and extended coverage (requiring a larger antenna) to receive some of those stations.
Or maybe a symbol to differentiate between what is generally considered "local" for the basic coverage areas per metro region? Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown?
Just throwing some ideas out there.

Sorry....I will try to go over it ASAP and update where needed. I was out of town for awhile and also preoccupied with other things lately.
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post #371 of 4289 Old 06-20-2009, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rluyster View Post

Sorry....I will try to go over it ASAP and update where needed. I was out of town for awhile and also preoccupied with other things lately.

I didn't mean it should be done immediately.
In fact, I'd assumed it should wait in case others chimed in with more changes/corrections.

Whenever you get around to it, no rush.
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post #372 of 4289 Old 06-20-2009, 07:14 AM
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Does electricity in the air or high humidity help TV signals travel farther? Last night, I was able to get WKBN and WFMJ out of Youngstown at signal levels between 85-90. I'm using a homemade coat-hanger antenna (thats missing an element) inside my garage about 6 feet off the ground. I've gotten WKBN before, but at low levels w/ lots of dropouts.

I was really surprised to be getting such a strong signal last night with my inadaquete setep. The only thing that was different last night was that there was tons of lightning to the west and it was really humid. Any experts know if those atmospheric conditions play a factor?
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post #373 of 4289 Old 06-20-2009, 09:48 AM
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Yes, atmospheric conditions have everything to do with the strength of the signal. Yes, I like coat hangers too.
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post #374 of 4289 Old 06-20-2009, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyhi14 View Post

Does electricity in the air or high humidity help TV signals travel farther? Last night, I was able to get WKBN and WFMJ out of Youngstown at signal levels between 85-90. I'm using a homemade coat-hanger antenna (thats missing an element) inside my garage about 6 feet off the ground. I've gotten WKBN before, but at low levels w/ lots of dropouts.

I was really surprised to be getting such a strong signal last night with my inadaquete setep. The only thing that was different last night was that there was tons of lightning to the west and it was really humid. Any experts know if those atmospheric conditions play a factor?

Take a look at this site for predictions when reception may be enhanced and you can perhaps pick up some "DX".

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

These are tropospheric predictions, generally involving stations within a few hundred miles and just one part of the subject of "TV Dxing"...do a Google and/or Wikipedia search and see what I mean.
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post #375 of 4289 Old 06-20-2009, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

I didn't mean it should be done immediately.
In fact, I'd assumed it should wait in case others chimed in with more changes/corrections.

Whenever you get around to it, no rush.

Understood. Yes, I hope others will join in and offer changes/corrections and suggestions. Please PM me with more info on how you think the local/extended coverage data might be best implemented. Thanks!
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post #376 of 4289 Old 06-20-2009, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rluyster View Post

Take a look at this site for predictions when reception may be enhanced and you can perhaps pick up some "DX".

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

These are tropospheric predictions, generally involving stations within a few hundred miles and just one part of the subject of "TV Dxing"...do a Google and/or Wikipedia search and see what I mean.

Very, very cool! Thanks for the link.
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post #377 of 4289 Old 06-21-2009, 03:31 PM
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I have a quick question before I try this.
after the wind yesterday my antenna turned NE and i lost a few channels but after a quick scan I was picking up a few new ones aswell. 27.1 and 27.2. one was fox and the other was cbs. so I am wondering, if i purchase another antenna and face it to the youngstown towers can I splice it in to my main antenna or will they just cancel eachother out? I have never been able to pick up cbs19 in my location in stark county perry township so this would give me cbs. Plus a few other channels.
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post #378 of 4289 Old 06-21-2009, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post

I have a quick question before I try this.
after the wind yesterday my antenna turned NE and i lost a few channels but after a quick scan I was picking up a few new ones aswell. 27.1 and 27.2. one was fox and the other was cbs. so I am wondering, if i purchase another antenna and face it to the youngstown towers can I splice it in to my main antenna or will they just cancel eachother out? I have never been able to pick up cbs19 in my location in stark county perry township so this would give me cbs. Plus a few other channels.

You can't splice them directly, but you can use something like a ChannelMaster JoinTenna for CH 41 (WKBN's real channel), which will pass thru all channels except 41 on one input, and only 41 on the second input. I don't know how well these really work, though, or whether you can get one for CH41 (they have to be ordered for the specific channel you need)
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post #379 of 4289 Old 06-22-2009, 05:11 AM
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Somebody a while back on the TWC thread said they reversed a splitter combining two antennas and that it did work. Not sure what kind of splitter or what kind of phasing problems would be encountered.
JJK
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post #380 of 4289 Old 06-22-2009, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJkizak View Post

Somebody a while back on the TWC thread said they reversed a splitter combining two antennas and that it did work. Not sure what kind of splitter or what kind of phasing problems would be encountered.
JJK

A splitter can work equally well as a combiner - it's a passive device and is bidirectional.
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post #381 of 4289 Old 06-22-2009, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post

I have a quick question before I try this.
after the wind yesterday my antenna turned NE and i lost a few channels but after a quick scan I was picking up a few new ones aswell. 27.1 and 27.2. one was fox and the other was cbs. so I am wondering, if i purchase another antenna and face it to the youngstown towers can I splice it in to my main antenna or will they just cancel eachother out? I have never been able to pick up cbs19 in my location in stark county perry township so this would give me cbs. Plus a few other channels.

Where are you located? WKBN-DT has a very large coverage area: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html If you are on high ground and inside the coverage area, chances are you'll get them 24/7. I get them 24/7 from Parma, just south of the Cleveland antenna farm using an indoor "Silver Sensor". I don't even have to re-aim the "SS", I just point it at Youngstown and all the Cleveland stations come in too (and my back yard is lit for free by all the tower lights)! It's great during football season, between 27.1 & 27.2 there are times when games not available from WJW and WOIO are seen! And now 27.2 is in HD too boot (last season they were still SD on 27.2)!
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post #382 of 4289 Old 06-22-2009, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathode Kid View Post

A splitter can work equally well as a combiner - it's a passive device and is bidirectional.

In some circumstances an Omnidirectional "saucer" antenna placed high up might just give you everything you want out of 1 antenna.

Try finding an unamplified one unless you are very far away from any transmitter (FM or TV).
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post #383 of 4289 Old 06-22-2009, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJkizak View Post

Somebody a while back on the TWC thread said they reversed a splitter combining two antennas and that it did work.

I was using a 3 way splitter as a combiner at my last apartment... combining 3 indoor amplified antennas... a 4 bowtie for Cleveland, 2 bowtie for Youngstown and an amplified dipole (with FM trap) for WOIO-DT... had WOIO-DT about 95% of the time... the combiner was a lot easier than a coaxial switch although there was interaction between the antennas... helps if you have a spectrum analyzer to tweak it all in...
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post #384 of 4289 Old 06-22-2009, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

In some circumstances an Omnidirectional "saucer" antenna placed high up might just give you everything you want out of 1 antenna.

An engineer at a Detroit TV station commented recently on the use of "saucer" type antennas for DTV reception:

"Many of the problems are with "RV" style omnidirectional actively amplified "flying saucer" style of antenna, that were popular installs along with DBS receivers. These things are horrible for DTV, my guess is because of the multipath overwhelming even the latest chipsets. We have literally a dozen sites that a simple silver sensor indoors at the STB outperformed an outside mounted "flying saucer," even though it had more than acceptable (if not great) NTSC reception of our analog."

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post #385 of 4289 Old 06-23-2009, 05:17 AM
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I have never been able to pick up 27.1, 27.2 in Twinsburg.
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post #386 of 4289 Old 06-23-2009, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post

An engineer at a Detroit TV station commented recently on the use of "saucer" type antennas for DTV reception:

"Many of the problems are with "RV" style omnidirectional actively amplified "flying saucer" style of antenna, that were popular installs along with DBS receivers. These things are horrible for DTV, my guess is because of the multipath overwhelming even the latest chipsets. We have literally a dozen sites that a simple silver sensor indoors at the STB outperformed an outside mounted "flying saucer," even though it had more than acceptable (if not great) NTSC reception of our analog."


I guess YMMV and maybe the referenced DBS receiver plays a part. My Winegard MS2000 amplified outdoor saucer antenna works great and has zero multi-path while feeding two different tuners. It also outperformed a quite large attic mounted directional antenna (signal wise).

The only post-DTV station it has trouble with is the notoriously weak ch 19 which the attic antenna could never tune in. Oddly my cute little saucer antenna received ch 19 DTV quite good prior to June 12th, now it has issues?? Maybe all the other locals at full DTV power are drowning out 19??

The other factor may be that I'm in the 'burbs so there are no tall buildings to amplify the multi-path issue stated by the Detroit tech with these "Lost In Space" style antennas.
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post #387 of 4289 Old 06-23-2009, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJkizak View Post

I have never been able to pick up 27.1, 27.2 in Twinsburg.
JJK

I'm surprised. You are closer than me to the Youngstown antenna farm, in fact you should also have a better shot at 21 & 33 from Twinsburg. You must be in a low-lying area. Are you using a roof-top antenna?

I get 27 in Parma using an indoor Silver Sensor.

My elevation is around 1100' above sea level (for comparison the City of Cleveland average is a little bit over 500' above sea level). The "big circle" that comprises the WKBN coverage area does not take elevation into consideration. What this means is that if you are inside the circle you have a shot at the signal if you can get your antenna high enough to clear any local terrain obstructions. If you want WKBN bad enough, it may be worth it to invest in a 40' tower (or for a less expensive alternative a 36' telescoping mast - I bought one from Radio Shack back in the 80's).
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post #388 of 4289 Old 06-23-2009, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

I guess YMMV and maybe the referenced DBS receiver plays a part. My Winegard MS2000 amplified outdoor saucer antenna works great and has zero multi-path while feeding two different tuners. It also outperformed a quite large attic mounted directional antenna (signal wise).

The only post-DTV station it has trouble with is the notoriously weak ch 19 which the attic antenna could never tune in. Oddly my cute little saucer antenna received ch 19 DTV quite good prior to June 12th, now it has issues?? Maybe all the other locals at full DTV power are drowning out 19??

The other factor may be that I'm in the 'burbs so there are no tall buildings to amplify the multi-path issue stated by the Detroit tech with these "Lost In Space" style antennas.

I used to use a saucer at my old house. Even though it's called an omnidirectional antenna, twisting it on it's mast will improve the reception. I call it finding the "sweet spot". The problem is the "sweet spot for one channel may be the death-null of another, so you have to play around to find the best compromise position. You'll want to mount it far from anything that may cause a signal reflection. My old house was at the crest of a hill, so there was nothing to the east to cause signal reflections. I actually got the old analog signal from WNEO 45 better than WEAO 49 - this was in Seven Hills!
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post #389 of 4289 Old 06-23-2009, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

I used to use a saucer at my old house. Even though it's called an omnidirectional antenna, twisting it on it's mast will improve the reception. I call it finding the "sweet spot". The problem is the "sweet spot for one channel may be the death-null of another, so you have to play around to find the best compromise position. You'll want to mount it far from anything that may cause a signal reflection. My old house was at the crest of a hill, so there was nothing to the east to cause signal reflections. I actually got the old analog signal from WNEO 45 better than WEAO 49 - this was in Seven Hills!

Yeah, it's as high as it can possibly get, on top of my 2nd floor chimney, and I'm one of only six two story homes in a large development of ranch homes. There are many large trees around me which I'm sure doesn't help. But it just seems odd that pre-DTV transition I got ch 19 with great consistency, but post-DTV transition it is very spotty at best.

Being ch 19 I'm not that concerned (I hardly watch it), but it just bugs me I can't get the same DTV signal I had just two weeks ago.

I may try your "twisting" idea and see if I can tweak a better ch 19 signal. Thanks.
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post #390 of 4289 Old 06-23-2009, 04:14 PM
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One of the gotchas of fiddling with DTV antenna position is that when you make a change, you have to stop and wait a few moments for the buffer to fill before you get a picture. So the optimium aiming sequence is turn-wait-turn-wait-turn-wait. This little quirk causes a lot of people to turn the antenna past the sweet spot, and they keep overshooting when they twist it in the other direction.
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