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post #541 of 4253 Old 07-20-2009, 03:43 PM
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I live in geneva OH right by the center of town. I'm thinking of putting up a channel master about 30 feet in the air with a rotor. Is there anyone in the close vicinity that can post me a list of the typical channels they can pick up? (if there are any)

I understand it's different for every location but I just wanna see if its worth my while at all

Thanks!
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post #542 of 4253 Old 07-20-2009, 04:15 PM
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I connected my two new Zenith DTT901 boxes and I get the same channels I get on my HD set, only better!! WVPX and WBNX have no reception problems at all. I guess it is true that the Zenith is great with multipath. And my WBNX/WVPX problems must be multipath related. Also, the signal strength meter is different. With my cheap ass old rabbit ears I get almost perfect signal on every channel.

Also, I've taken advantage of the manual channel add option and put channel 20 and channel 41 in the list. Both did not show up in the scan but I do get some bar on them. WKBN and WFMJ never seem to get out of the "Bad" part of the bar enough and there is not enough of a signal. I'll have to play around with that more later. Since I'm getting a trace of signal on these two channels now that means a better UHF antenna might have a shot at getting a usable signal.
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post #543 of 4253 Old 07-21-2009, 05:01 PM
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WVIZ is placing a new DTV encoder online tomorrow evening, replacing their Harris Flexicoder. Check your picture quality tomorrow night - you might notice an improvement, particularly in the SD channels.
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post #544 of 4253 Old 07-21-2009, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathode Kid View Post

WVIZ is placing a new DTV encoder online tomorrow evening, replacing their Harris Flexicoder. Check your picture quality tomorrow night - you might notice an improvement, particularly in the SD channels.

Good to know. Right now WVIZ's subchannels are some of the worst picture I've ever seen. I hope the PQ changes will be related to equipment, not change in bandwidth. According to Rabbit Ears, it looks like the WVIZ subs are the lowest of all the stations. And I like that because WVIZ HD looks surprisingly good for a 1080i channel with three subchannels. Even WOIO doesn't look as good.
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post #545 of 4253 Old 07-21-2009, 05:53 PM
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Right now, WVIZ is using static bitrates. I have to imagine that the new encoder will introduce statistical multiplexing and thus variable bitrates. Whether it will help or hinder is yet to be seen. I'd be very interested in hearing some opinions on that, though, once it happens.

- Trip

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post #546 of 4253 Old 07-22-2009, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathode Kid View Post

WVIZ is placing a new DTV encoder online tomorrow evening, replacing their Harris Flexicoder.

I think WVIZ has made the switch... no macroblocking when the Ohio channel locks in... video/audio on Create seems better... the CSCN 25.9 locks immediately...
-Ed
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post #547 of 4253 Old 07-22-2009, 03:03 PM
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Yes, WVIZ look much better on my Apex DT502, and 25.9 actually locks in now.

On a side note, WRLM crashes my DT502, but not my Tivo HD or Zenith DTT901 ( WOAC before was fine on this box ). Any ideas on what's going on with them?
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post #548 of 4253 Old 07-22-2009, 03:22 PM
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WRLM is a hot mess. With my CECB I've noticed some things. 47-1 looks like it would be "correct" looking on a 16:9 TV set to stretch the picture. The people appear to be tall and skinny(maybe that's just how religious loons look, I don't know!). And 47-2 looks correct when I set the box to squeeze. It appears their HD channel is nothing more than a HD bug placed over stretched programming upconverted to a HD resolution. I'm pretty pissed that we got this on channel 67 instead of RTN. What a shame that RTN has to be on low power analog stations.

How does it "crash" anything? Does that mean the box shuts off and "reboots"? That's very odd.
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post #549 of 4253 Old 07-22-2009, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdawg View Post

WRLM is a hot mess. With my CECB I've noticed some things. 47-1 looks like it would be "correct" looking on a 16:9 TV set to stretch the picture. The people appear to be tall and skinny(maybe that's just how religious loons look, I don't know!). And 47-2 looks correct when I set the box to squeeze. It appears their HD channel is nothing more than a HD bug placed over stretched programming upconverted to a HD resolution. I'm pretty pissed that we got this on channel 67 instead of RTN. What a shame that RTN has to be on low power analog stations.

How does it "crash" anything? Does that mean the box shuts off and "reboots"? That's very odd.

I tune to it, and within a second the whole screen turns white. After about 10 seconds pass, it then returns back to one of the neighboring channels ( like 49.1 or 43.2 ).
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post #550 of 4253 Old 07-22-2009, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmertic View Post

WRLM crashes my DT502, but not my Tivo HD or Zenith DTT901 ( WOAC before was fine on this box ). Any ideas on what's going on with them?

Audio on 47.1 looks about 6-10 dB high but neither 47.1 or 47.2 crashes the Zenith DTT900... the only thing that ever crashed the Zenith was the program information on a cooking show that originated from WQED... happened multiple times on different airings... -ED
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post #551 of 4253 Old 07-22-2009, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmertic View Post

Yes, WVIZ look much better on my Apex DT502, and 25.9 actually locks in now.

On a side note, WRLM crashes my DT502, but not my Tivo HD or Zenith DTT901 ( WOAC before was fine on this box ). Any ideas on what's going on with them?

The new encoder was placed on the air mid-day. I noticed VBR on at least WVIZ-HD, Ohio Channel and World.
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post #552 of 4253 Old 07-23-2009, 04:51 AM
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I also get variable results on 47.2 ---sometimes correct and sometimes fatso people. On 47.1 sometimes skinny people and sometimes correct.
I got a new Terk indoor amplified antenna from MCM Electronics for $34.00. (VHF/UHF 12db gain) for tv upstairs and that little sucker works far better than I thought it would. I get most all the channels that my outside rig gets.
JJK
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post #553 of 4253 Old 07-23-2009, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJkizak View Post

I also get variable results on 47.2 ---sometimes correct and sometimes fatso people. On 47.1 sometimes skinny people and sometimes correct.
I got a new Terk indoor amplified antenna from MCM Electronics for $34.00. (VHF/UHF 12db gain) for tv upstairs and that little sucker works far better than I thought it would. I get most all the channels that my outside rig gets.
JJK

I agree about the Terk antenna -- I've tried about a half-dozen others, and it's by far the best one I've ever used. Some have said that an unamplified version works better if you're quite close to a given station's tower, but I'm between 20 to 30 miles away all from our local stations (not counting the TBN affiliate ), so the amplified version works very well indeed.

Rich
Hamilton, OH
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post #554 of 4253 Old 07-23-2009, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJkizak View Post

I also get variable results on 47.2 ---sometimes correct and sometimes fatso people. On 47.1 sometimes skinny people and sometimes correct.
I got a new Terk indoor amplified antenna from MCM Electronics for $34.00. (VHF/UHF 12db gain) for tv upstairs and that little sucker works far better than I thought it would. I get most all the channels that my outside rig gets.
JJK

What's the model number of the Terk? I might look into that so maybe I can get a stable signal on channel 49, and more if I'm lucky. I also need to pull in analog 35 better. Thanks.
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post #555 of 4253 Old 07-23-2009, 03:05 PM
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It's a Terk HDTVa
JJK
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post #556 of 4253 Old 07-23-2009, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JJkizak View Post

It's a Terk HDTVa
JJK

Thanks!
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post #557 of 4253 Old 07-23-2009, 08:03 PM
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When I checked earlier 25-2 and 25-3 looked better than before. 25-4 had no picture or sound and another channel 25-9 was missing the picture.
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post #558 of 4253 Old 07-23-2009, 08:18 PM
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25.9 doesn't have a picture. It's the audio service of the Cleveland Sight Center.

http://www.clevelandsightcenter.org/
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post #559 of 4253 Old 07-23-2009, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by salemtubes View Post

25.9 doesn't have a picture. It's the audio service of the Cleveland Sight Center.

http://www.clevelandsightcenter.org/

noticed their clock has been running about about 5 hours slow this afternoon...
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post #560 of 4253 Old 07-23-2009, 10:22 PM
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A question about 25.9.

On occasions when WVIZ is in here (not so rare since they upgraded - had been "once a year" rare with 1kw), I can get all the TV services fine on my Sylvania (Funai) SDTV set, but 25.9, even though it maps, causes a "NO SIGNAL" alert when I try to hear it.

What could be the problem here?
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post #561 of 4253 Old 07-24-2009, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdawg View Post

When I checked earlier 25-2 and 25-3 looked better than before. 25-4 had no picture or sound and another channel 25-9 was missing the picture.

25-4 coming in fine here. Grainy picture as usual, but audio & video are as expected.
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post #562 of 4253 Old 07-24-2009, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsthemultipath! View Post

A question about 25.9.

On occasions when WVIZ is in here (not so rare since they upgraded - had been "once a year" rare with 1kw), I can get all the TV services fine on my Sylvania (Funai) SDTV set, but 25.9, even though it maps, causes a "NO SIGNAL" alert when I try to hear it.

What could be the problem here?

Many receivers will not decode the audio on 25.9. It is designed to be received by a special receiver that is available through the Sight Center. Nickdawg's Zenith receiver just happens to be one that is known to decode it.
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post #563 of 4253 Old 07-24-2009, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salemtubes View Post

Many receivers will not decode the audio on 25.9. It is designed to be received by a special receiver that is available through the Sight Center. Nickdawg's Zenith receiver just happens to be one that is known to decode it.

I get the 25.9 audio on all 3 of my converter boxes - an Apex, a Magnavox, and a Zenith - plus my DVR with no problem. The special receiver you're talking about is a SCA (subcarrier radio receiver). That same Cleveland Sight Center broadcast is also on a subcarrier of WCPN 90.3, and they give the special radios that tune only that one station to the sight impaired. I have a GE Superadio III that is modded to get all the subcarriers, but really the only one left is Sight Center station. There used to be Muzak by subscription only on other station's subcarriers, that's why the radios given to the blind were stuck on that one station, as most other services were subscription only, and then whoever subscribed would get a radio that would only get that one station they subscribed to. Some of the services were Muzak, and others were ones like PRN (Physicians Radio Network), where they would talk about the latest drugs, therapies, and treatments, but mainly drug commercials. I think it is difficult if not impossible for FM stations to carry HD and SCA, as they are both subcarriers, just not enough bandwidth for all, so I'm sure when WCPN goes HD, they will drop the subcarrier or put the Radio Reading service on HD3 or something. I think they have it on 25.9 just as a public service. I know they also used to have it on analog 25's SAP. Anyways SCA was crappy in quality, mono only, less bandwidth than AM, and you could hear crosstalk from the main station.
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post #564 of 4253 Old 07-24-2009, 03:13 PM
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As far as I know, any ATSC tuner is theoretically supposed to handle an audio-only stream. Just that some tuners don't, for whatever reason. Most stations with audio-only feeds trickle a very highly compressed still video feed to compensate.

- Trip

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post #565 of 4253 Old 07-24-2009, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

As far as I know, any ATSC tuner is theoretically supposed to handle an audio-only stream. Just that some tuners don't, for whatever reason. Most stations with audio-only feeds trickle a very highly compressed still video feed to compensate.

- Trip

I'm guessing that some TVs can't receive it because of the absence of a video PCR clock on that channel. Perhaps the receivers that can pick it up are able to sniff out an alternate PCR reference clock.
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post #566 of 4253 Old 07-24-2009, 07:01 PM
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My Channel Master CM-7000 converter box, Dish Network DTVPal DVR and Dish Network ViP 622 receiver map 25.9; however, I receive no sound. My Zenith DTT900 converter box does decode the audio stream on 25.9
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post #567 of 4253 Old 07-24-2009, 07:18 PM
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25.9 shows up on my three year old HDTV(Pioneer). 25.9 is just a black screen with no sound. My Zenith DTT901 plays the audio and now I notice there is a blue banner on screen that says "AUDIO ONLY".

Also, 25.4 is back on now. The PQ on 25.4 looks better than it ever has.
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post #568 of 4253 Old 07-25-2009, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rRooster View Post

I live in geneva OH right by the center of town. I'm thinking of putting up a channel master about 30 feet in the air with a rotor. Is there anyone in the close vicinity that can post me a list of the typical channels they can pick up? (if there are any)

I understand it's different for every location but I just wanna see if its worth my while at all

Thanks!

I have a channel master 4228 uhf antenna, this is the old version. I'm very please with it. I live in the youngstown area and can pick up the cleveland and pittsburgh stations (I have a rotor). The newer 4228 hd is not as good from what I have read. Here is a link to a site that explains alot about setting up antenna's and have rated and tested some. Also if you go to TV Fool it will list the channels you can possibly get in your area.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29
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post #569 of 4253 Old 07-26-2009, 05:04 AM
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Here's another link at that same site that discusses the poor design problems of the "new" 4228 made in china, and some other new antennas.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html
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post #570 of 4253 Old 08-01-2009, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdawg View Post

25.9 shows up on my three year old HDTV(Pioneer). 25.9 is just a black screen with no sound. My Zenith DTT901 plays the audio and now I notice there is a blue banner on screen that says "AUDIO ONLY".

Also, 25.4 is back on now. The PQ on 25.4 looks better than it ever has.

I've confirmed that there's a PCR clock and a single PID for audio on the 25.9 subchannel, so that blue "audio only" banner is being generated within your box, not by WVIZ.
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