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post #31 of 4280 Old 04-21-2009, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWGP View Post

I know several channels are going to low VHF, presumably to save money.

No local stations are returning to low-VHF. WJW-DT will move back to channel 8 on upper-VHF. If you get WOIO-DT now, WJW-DT should work for you.

WKYC-DT 2 is fleeing low-VHF for UHF on channel 17 as soon as their new tower is done.

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post #32 of 4280 Old 04-21-2009, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWGP View Post

I was thinking about this the other night, and wondered if anyone had any guesses - and this seemed like the best place to ask.

Will signal reception of channels in the Cleveland area CHANGE at all come June 12? I understand the WKYC/WVIZ tower is still only half built (thank you OhioMediaWatch), but other than that...

I know several channels are going to low VHF, presumably to save money. Someone should tell the Best Buys and Walmarts... they're selling plenty of UHF-only antennas that they'll get back as returns when June 12 arrives and people can't get channels.

For those of us with normal VHF-UHF antennas, is there expected to be a ton of change? Power changes? That kind of thing?

The main reason I ask is that I can get all four networks plus WVIZ - but like so many others, WOIO and WKYC are weak. I'm in western Shaker Heights, so I'm not super-close to Parma, but line of sight isn't all that many miles either. Hence, my debate is getting an amplifier or amplified antenna or not - I have signal, it's just weak, which is the textbook situation for an amp, am I right? But I don't want to go ahead with that if it might change come June 12...

sorry to be cryptic and demanding, hope that was clear enough ;P thanks!

WKYC will be moving its digital transmission from channel 2 to channel 17 after its tower is completed. WOIO's digital transmission is already on channel 10 and will stay there. It has submited an application to the FCC to increase its power from 3.5 kW ERP (effective radiated power) to 10.3 kW ERP. WJW's digital transmission will be moving to channel 8 from channel 31 on June 12th. You probably do not need a preamplifier. You should be fine with a small to medium sized outdoor combination UHF/VHF antenna.
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post #33 of 4280 Old 04-21-2009, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWGP View Post

I noticed that on their site... lol, I got the distinct impression from the lady at the front desk when I called that they were getting a lot of complaints. The sad thing is, Chuck isn't even good ratingswise - a 2.3 in 18-49 against weak competition? Meh...

I do wonder if the repeated 2.3 this week was affected at all by Cleveland's totally missing out on it. WKYC DOES have quite a number of people getting their signal, after all. At least the episode was huge amounts of awesome...

I think so. Not being cleared in primetime in the 15th TV market is not going to have positive effects on the ratings. I've noticed that "Heroes" and "Medium" scored better than Chuck did. And Chuck didn't even have House or a new Big Bang Theory as competition this week, so this should have been a good ratings week.

And I'm sure it wasn't too good for WKYC either. I doubt they got Chuck-sized audiences for their space show. They're even replaying it on Saturday at 1pm. So Chuck gets the Infomercial slot while the stupid space show gets royal treatment once more.

This is hilarious. 99% of comments at WKYC are about Chuck, not the space show. There's even a thread about this on Chuck at IMDB!

And that was a great episode, possibly one of the best. Worth staying up until 4 to watch.
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post #34 of 4280 Old 04-21-2009, 11:32 PM
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Monday's NBC Shows:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dad1153 View Post

Nielsen Overnights
Monday Broadcast Finals
From Marc Berman's Mediaweek 'Programming Insider' Blog (Posted by Travis Yanan) - April 21, 2009

Chuck
- 6.113 million viewers
- 3.6/6 HH
- 2.4/7 A18-49

Heroes (61 minutes)
- 6.455 million viewers
- 4.0/6 HH
- 3.1/7 A18-49

Medium (59 minutes)
- 7.341 million viewers
- 4.8/8 HH
- 2.5/7 A18-49

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post #35 of 4280 Old 04-22-2009, 12:53 AM
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rluyster,

Thank you for starting this OTA forum.

Tom
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post #36 of 4280 Old 04-22-2009, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salemtubes View Post

WKYC will be moving its digital transmission from channel 2 to channel 17 after its tower is completed. WOIO's digital transmission is already on channel 10 and will stay there. It has submited an application to the FCC to increase its power from 3.5 kW ERP (effective radiated power) to 10.3 kW ERP. WJW's digital transmission will be moving to channel 8 from channel 31 on June 12th. You probably do not need a preamplifier. You should be fine with a small to medium sized outdoor combination UHF/VHF antenna.

I'm certainly hoping to reduce the profile of my indoor antenna with the transition. Won't be able to tell until after Fox moves to 8.
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post #37 of 4280 Old 04-22-2009, 12:29 PM
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Wow - I don't know where I got the idea that things might get worse, rather than better. Maybe I was thinking about the current situation... In any event, here's hoping things go well June 12!
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post #38 of 4280 Old 04-22-2009, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by nickdawg View Post

Looks like WKYC is pretending to be WEWS-interrupting network programming for local crap. I hope WKYC's viewer enjoyed the show tonight. I don't care if it was in HD, even that wouldn't make it worth watching. Check out WKYC.com. On the topic about "to the moon", all the comments are about not showing Chuck. Nobody even cares about the show in Chuck's place.

Years ago when I was just a kid network prime time programming began at 7:00 or 7:30 PM Eastern (this was in the early 60's). Then the hour from 7:00 - 8:00 PM Eastern time (Monday through Friday) was blocked out by the FCC in the late 60's for "local" programming. After all these years of government mandated programming options what do we get in this 7-8 PM block? Syndicated crap that is never preempted for the type of programming that was intended for this block. So where does such true "local" programming go? Why in place of the national network's schedule.
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post #39 of 4280 Old 04-22-2009, 04:52 PM
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At least they didn't show one of those comedy's that aren't funny with the phony laugh tracks. I did pick up some pointers on liquid hydrogen however.
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post #40 of 4280 Old 04-22-2009, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

Years ago when I was just a kid network prime time programming began at 7:00 or 7:30 PM Eastern (this was in the early 60's). Then the hour from 7:00 - 8:00 PM Eastern time (Monday through Friday) was blocked out by the FCC in the late 60's for "local" programming. After all these years of government mandated programming options what do we get in this 7-8 PM block? Syndicated crap that is never preempted for the type of programming that was intended for this block. So where does such true "local" programming go? Why in place of the national network's schedule.

They talk about the FCC and 'serving the public', but it seems most of this crap serves nobody but the station. Dumping network programming gives an excuse to program an hour slot with all local ads. Or in WOIO's case, paid programming. (Aside: Which WOIO should schedule instead of their news-it would make more money ) And I think they even get some compensation for the religious crap that pollutes prime time once in awhile. Last time Billy Graham was on WEWS, they ran the "Paid Program" bumper at the beginning of it.
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post #41 of 4280 Old 04-23-2009, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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A note to any of you in the east/southeast areas of the Cleveland DMA...WTOV-DT, NBC ch. 9.1, RTN ch. 9.2, Steubenville OH has gone to full power of 23 kW and is being received with much improved signals. The signal meter on my Panasonic TV is now showing them consistently at 98-100%. They were at 9kW prior to the power increase. Their recent move from ch. 57 to ch. 9 also seems to have improved their coverage area.
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post #42 of 4280 Old 04-23-2009, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdawg View Post

They talk about the FCC and 'serving the public', but it seems most of this crap serves nobody but the station. Dumping network programming gives an excuse to program an hour slot with all local ads. Or in WOIO's case, paid programming. (Aside: Which WOIO should schedule instead of their news-it would make more money ) And I think they even get some compensation for the religious crap that pollutes prime time once in awhile. Last time Billy Graham was on WEWS, they ran the "Paid Program" bumper at the beginning of it.

Like any govt agency/bureaucracy, it gets in the way more than it helps.

I'm not sure what great "local programming" you guys want instead of syndicated shows. You really need the old PM Magazine back?
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post #43 of 4280 Old 04-24-2009, 02:23 PM
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Also talked about this in the Cleveland TWC section, but I figured it deserved a place here too, as Cleveland TV News goes beyond the scope of TWC and also affects those with OTA. Ted Henry is retiring, can't believe that didn't get more discussion here. Or are we just more obsessed with HDTV, and not what's on the Tv?

Channel 5 has a new bug. It must have started some time this week, as it still said "news channel 5" when I watched on Saturday after the game. I like the new bug, it looks very ABC O&O like. And I have a thing for network/O&O branding. Very nice, 5. Good Job!!

Also over at 5, Ted Henry is retiring. Hard to believe, he just announced it out of nowhere yesterday. May 20 is supposed to be his last day.

My thoughts, I hope he takes Duhhhhh-Neeeeta with him. I'd really love to see Kim Gill from the morning show move to the evenings. She's a fantastic anchor not being used to her potential in the morning. And for a guy, I'd like to see WEWS woo Eric Mansfield over to 5. WKYC has really jerked him around lately, dumping the Akron Canton news and now the 7pm show is ruined with Carole Chandler gone. Eric Mansfield and Kimberly Gill would make a great team at 5 and restore professional, serious news. Or, and this is really out there, but hire Tim White. WKYC tossed him aside like yesterday's trash, bring him to WEWS. That, along with a re-branding(I'm thinking "Eyewetness News") would shoot WEWS far out of the basement they're currently in.

Gotta say, this channel keeps impressing me. Just a few back, I was constantly dogging on WEWS with all their technical problems. But they have really 360'ed in the last few weeks. The black line is gone, the HD channel has been glitch free and they have some cool, new graphics and HD commercials. If you look at the ABC/evening news commercials, the sidebars actually say: "WEWS HD" on the right and "TONIGHT" on the left.

Oh yeah, and Abby Hamm is leaving WKYC morning. Can the week get any better?
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post #44 of 4280 Old 04-24-2009, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdawg View Post

......................
Gotta say, this channel keeps impressing me. Just a few back, I was constantly dogging on WEWS with all their technical problems. But they have really 360'ed in the last few weeks. The black line is gone, the HD channel has been glitch free and they have some cool, new graphics and HD commercials. If you look at the ABC/evening news commercials, the sidebars actually say: "WEWS HD" on the right and "TONIGHT" on the left.

Oh yeah, and Abby Hamm is leaving WKYC morning. Can the week get any better?

Let's hope all the locals are as diligent gearing up for the DTV switch for June 12th.
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post #45 of 4280 Old 04-24-2009, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

Let's hope all the locals are as diligent gearing up for the DTV switch for June 12th.

I think that's what the sidebars are for. Lately I've noticed more HD news promos on WEWS, which I take to mean that they're getting ready for the DTV switch by using the DT channel as the main channel, rather than just upconverting the analog channel outside of network and HD syndicated programming.
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post #46 of 4280 Old 04-25-2009, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

No local stations are returning to low-VHF. WJW-DT will move back to channel 8 on upper-VHF. If you get WOIO-DT now, WJW-DT should work for you.

WKYC-DT 2 is fleeing low-VHF for UHF on channel 17 as soon as their new tower is done.

- Trip

Anybody have a status update on that tower? I built myself one of those youtube coathanger antennas, and while the other major station all have over 90 signal strength, I can't get WKYC at all. I've had enough issues I'm ready to dump Time Warner, but would still like to be able to watch NBC occasionally.
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post #47 of 4280 Old 04-25-2009, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

Everyone: Please fill in / edit any of this supplied info.

Also, some of you with the big ass antennas should post such info for a Cleveland DTV “Extended Area” ch list and descriptions. Ex: the Akron/Canton or Youngstown feeds. I recently noticed a ch 52 (I think) on my tuner, no clue what it is or where it came from. Moscow TV? I’m guessing the stations may be starting to boost/test DTV power, or maybe just odd atmospherics that day, I dunno.

If you mean RF channel 52, I have no idea, I doubt any new channel 52 DTV transmitter would be built now, since channel 52 is "out of core" and would have to sign off soon.

If you mean virtual channel 52, I suspect WGGN-DT in Sandusky (actual channel 42). They've been around for awhile, but they recently moved to a new transmitter site with a considerable power increase.
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post #48 of 4280 Old 04-26-2009, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsthemultipath! View Post

If you mean RF channel 52, I have no idea, I doubt any new channel 52 DTV transmitter would be built now, since channel 52 is "out of core" and would have to sign off soon.

If you mean virtual channel 52, I suspect WGGN-DT in Sandusky (actual channel 42). They've been around for awhile, but they recently moved to a new transmitter site with a considerable power increase.

Yeah, I'll bet WGGN was it. It had a sub-ch coming in as well. But both were unwatchable (understandable transmitting from Sandusky) and I have not seen them since. Probably atmospherics + tower tweaking that day.
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post #49 of 4280 Old 04-26-2009, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skraut View Post

Anybody have a status update on that tower? I built myself one of those youtube coathanger antennas, and while the other major station all have over 90 signal strength, I can't get WKYC at all. I've had enough issues I'm ready to dump Time Warner, but would still like to be able to watch NBC occasionally.

You may well get a signal boost for WKYC after they are on their new tower, don't give up yet. Can you get WVIZ?
I'd suspect WVIZ is still the worst as far as signal strength, though they have been boosting their power lately.

We are all hoping for 3 & 25 to have much improved signal strength when they move to the new WKYC tower and go full power.
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post #50 of 4280 Old 04-26-2009, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

You may well get a signal boost for WKYC after they are on their new tower, don't give up yet. Can you get WVIZ?
I'd suspect WVIZ is still the worst as far as signal strength, though they have been boosting their power lately.

We are all hoping for 3 & 25 to have much improved signal strength when they move to the new WKYC tower and go full power.

For reference, I'm in Brunswick 12 miles from the antenna farm, here's my TVFool report http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...7c72e8a631520e

I actually hooked up an older unused 12 ft outdoor antenna in my living room just to test and see if I could get it. I was able to get better reception on WVIZ's Digital channels, they were mostly watchable with some dropouts, and signal strength in the 50's and 60's. WKYC however, the HD Tivo shows a brief moment where it says the signal strength is 55, then fades to nothing with the message "No Digital Signal Found."

I'm also having issues getting WOIO without dropouts. I'm really ready to dump TWC, and don't watch many channels, so OTA was something I was looking to switch to. I'm not to far from the towers, I shouldn't be having these issues. It's frustrating, this shouldn't be so difficult.
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post #51 of 4280 Old 04-26-2009, 09:52 AM
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Once the new tower is finished, your problems with WKYC and WVIZ should be a thing of the past. Those stations will be UHF at full power, like many of the others.

WOIO-DT, however, is likely to stay as it is for the forseeable future. Their request for a power boost is tied up with the Canadians and I don't know how long it will take to get it resolved.

Your antenna will certainly work better outside, too.

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post #52 of 4280 Old 04-26-2009, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skraut View Post

For reference, I'm in Brunswick 12 miles from the antenna farm, here's my TVFool report http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...7c72e8a631520e

I actually hooked up an older unused 12 ft outdoor antenna in my living room just to test and see if I could get it. I was able to get better reception on WVIZ's Digital channels, they were mostly watchable with some dropouts, and signal strength in the 50's and 60's. WKYC however, the HD Tivo shows a brief moment where it says the signal strength is 55, then fades to nothing with the message "No Digital Signal Found."

I'm also having issues getting WOIO without dropouts. I'm really ready to dump TWC, and don't watch many channels, so OTA was something I was looking to switch to. I'm not to far from the towers, I shouldn't be having these issues. It's frustrating, this shouldn't be so difficult.

I'm in Strongsville, a bit closer (but not by much) to the antenna farm than you. I get 3 & 19 & 25 (the weakest Cleveland area OTA signals).
Until a few weeks ago 25 was my only real problem station.

But then I do use an amplified outdoor antenna, Winegard MS2000 (saucer, very low profile, very discrete):
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...ROD=JC-SMS2000
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post #53 of 4280 Old 04-26-2009, 02:36 PM
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Toby, Thanks for your input, I'm still trying to decide what to do. I like the idea of that MS2000, but while TVFool says I should need a Yellow antenna to get all the channels, yet Antennaweb says I would need a Red antenna (medium directional) for 3, 19, and 25. My experience is telling me that I'll probably need all the help I can get, and not sure if the MS2000 is enough (most places list it as a "green" antenna.)

Did you get yours locally, or though the internet? I'd love to be able to get it from somewhere that'll allow me to return it if it's not enough.
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post #54 of 4280 Old 04-26-2009, 03:40 PM
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post #55 of 4280 Old 04-26-2009, 05:06 PM
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MCM Electronics has a selection and they will ship them UPS even though they are oversize.
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Plus, MCM is in Centerville, Ohio.

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post #56 of 4280 Old 04-27-2009, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skraut View Post

Toby, Thanks for your input, I'm still trying to decide what to do. I like the idea of that MS2000, but while TVFool says I should need a Yellow antenna to get all the channels, yet Antennaweb says I would need a Red antenna (medium directional) for 3, 19, and 25. My experience is telling me that I'll probably need all the help I can get, and not sure if the MS2000 is enough (most places list it as a "green" antenna.)

Did you get yours locally, or though the internet? I'd love to be able to get it from somewhere that'll allow me to return it if it's not enough.

Mine was from online. I wasn't trying to suggest that you buy that particular model, but was rather pointing out that you probably don't need a huge skeleton type antenna to pick up the locals.

You could also go for a much larger directional or omni-directional and place it in your attic for the ultimate in low profile.
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post #57 of 4280 Old 04-27-2009, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skraut View Post

Anybody have a status update on that tower? I built myself one of those youtube coathanger antennas, and while the other major station all have over 90 signal strength, I can't get WKYC at all. I've had enough issues I'm ready to dump Time Warner, but would still like to be able to watch NBC occasionally.

They seem to be at about 300' so far. Still got a good distance to go.
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post #58 of 4280 Old 04-28-2009, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathode Kid View Post

They seem to be at about 300' so far. Still got a good distance to go.

They have been stuck at that height for some time now. I get to see the tower often during the week and it seems to me like no work is being done since the initial section went up.

I also saw the WJW tower go up several years ago. I don't recall it taking as long as the WKYC tower, and in the case of WJW there had to be additional safety factors in place. Unlike nearly every other tower up here, WJW's is very close to the street with little or no buffer zone to neighboring houses or the streets below.
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post #59 of 4280 Old 04-28-2009, 04:27 PM
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Skraut:
Many years ago as it was related to me antenna design was kind of make something and see if it works. If it doesn't work make something else. If it does work then write the theory for it. Coat hanger theory is very popular.
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post #60 of 4280 Old 04-29-2009, 06:26 PM
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Getting an improved WGGN from Strongsville is not that far of a stretch. I think their new tower is between Norwalk and Ashland, which would give you this FCC TV Service Area map:

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