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post #6751 of 6772 Old 02-03-2016, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post
That picture (from OPB) was not dinner, it was flowers! I guess it could be dinner if you are a deer .

I saw that picture too, without a pop-up covering.

EDIT: Never mind. Another scan (Andrew K's) a few posts above was the flowers I saw. That last scan (Snowdog's) looked like a hamburger on top of fruit.
That was Snowdogs I was refering to, & it does look like a Burger!
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post #6752 of 6772 Old 02-03-2016, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post
I hope they are not considering a future assignment on ch 9 for Cleveland. I was considering buying a ch 9 yagi and aiming it at CBET. Since I'm on high ground I thought I might have a shot at getting the CBC.
No. For now, it's just for testing ATSC 3.0 until the end of March. According to the exhibits, they are using WJW's auxiliary antenna, which I believe is that 3 bay batwing antenna that's halfway up on the tower. CBET prohibits testing of WG9XGV during primetime hours and WTOV allows for testing between 9 AM-4 PM and 11:30 PM-5:30 AM, excluding Saturday & Sunday.

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post #6753 of 6772 Old 02-03-2016, 01:55 PM
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They appear to drop the pilot carrier when they switch to ATSC-3. I have local WHBC 94.1 (x2) right in the middle of the channel although did manage to decode the callsign.
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post #6754 of 6772 Old 02-03-2016, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post
I hope they are not considering a future assignment on ch 9 for Cleveland. I was considering buying a ch 9 yagi and aiming it at CBET. Since I'm on high ground I thought I might have a shot at getting the CBC.
That's going to be a tough one. Have you looked at TVFool.com to see what the predicted noise margin is at your address? If it's a positive value, perhaps about 5 dB or more, it may be worth a shot. I see there are some areas of Parma that show a decent enough signal to work with for CBET, considering a large roof-mounted antenna. But one thing I know for certain... you'd definitely need a strong full-band FM trap in the line since you're near the Parma FMs. Those are known for causing problems on high-VHF TV signals when you're close to the FM transmitters. I certainly have issues here in the midst of the Akron antenna farm if I don't use a filter. MCM Electronics sells a good one for just a couple bucks.

I have a massive 15' long VHF antenna mounted about 27' above ground, on my roof. And I don't quite receive WTOV 9 here 24/7. That one is tropo only at 71 miles from here when I aim at it. The sub-decode always shows up on the Zenith box though. Do you see any sub-decode signal on 9 when you aim that way? If so, it may be worth the upgrade.
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post #6755 of 6772 Old 02-03-2016, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post
They appear to drop the pilot carrier when they switch to ATSC-3. I have local WHBC 94.1 (x2) right in the middle of the channel although did manage to decode the callsign.
WD8KCT, if that's the case, then a cheap FM trap is your answer. Without one, I see absolutely no signal from WCDN-LD 7 in Cleveland. When I add the trap to the line, WCDN-LD is borderline decode.

That's interesting you didn't see any pilot carrier. Was it just a flat line across the full 6 MHz?

WG9XGV was a full-scale signal here in Akron, just like WJW. I noticed that my HD Homerun tuner was showing a signal strength of 100% most of today, but there was no DTV signal showing up at all on any of the tuners. So I knew they were using ATSC 3.0 mode. They briefly used 1.0 mode at times today, but not nearly as much as yesterday.
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post #6756 of 6772 Old 02-03-2016, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
That's going to be a tough one. Have you looked at TVFool.com to see what the predicted noise margin is at your address? If it's a positive value, perhaps about 5 dB or more, it may be worth a shot. I see there are some areas of Parma that show a decent enough signal to work with for CBET, considering a large roof-mounted antenna. But one thing I know for certain... you'd definitely need a strong full-band FM trap in the line since you're near the Parma FMs. Those are known for causing problems on high-VHF TV signals when you're close to the FM transmitters. I certainly have issues here in the midst of the Akron antenna farm if I don't use a filter. MCM Electronics sells a good one for just a couple bucks.
To add to this; WJW and WOIO are also likely to cause adjacent interference with CBET, especially in Parma and surrounding areas. I remember seeing WJW on channel 7 back in the analog days, even though I'm nowhere near the transmitters.

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post #6757 of 6772 Old 02-04-2016, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
WD8KCT, if that's the case, then a cheap FM trap is your answer. Without one, I see absolutely no signal from WCDN-LD 7 in Cleveland. When I add the trap to the line, WCDN-LD is borderline decode.

That's interesting you didn't see any pilot carrier. Was it just a flat line across the full 6 MHz?
Using the antenna for FM-HD also (multi-tasking) so the interference is not surprising.

Attached a picture from RTLSDR Scanner. In the top scan the channel had a pilot, bottom scan no pilot. No luck getting a usable signal from RF-10. Using a simple indoor VHF dipole.
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Last edited by wd8kct; 02-04-2016 at 11:36 AM.
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post #6758 of 6772 Old 02-04-2016, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
To add to this; WJW and WOIO are also likely to cause adjacent interference with CBET, especially in Parma and surrounding areas. I remember seeing WJW on channel 7 back in the analog days, even though I'm nowhere near the transmitters.
That's a good point. When you're that close to adjacent channels, it's pretty much impossible. I can see practically every channel from Pittsburgh when tropo is good, but WDLI 49 makes it nearly impossible to see WPXI 48. WPXI is one of the last Pittsburgh channels to show up here. The adjacent channel interference is too great. The FCC has rules about adjacent channel placement, because when you got a strong channel next to a weak one, the weaker channel is almost impossible to receive, which wouldn't be a problem elsewhere. And there's really nothing you can do to fix the problem.

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Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post
Using the antenna for FM-HD also (multi-tasking) so the interference is not surprising.

Attached a picture from RTLSDR Scanner. In the top scan the channel had a pilot, bottom scan no pilot. No luck getting a usable signal from RF-10. Using a simple indoor VHF dipole.
What software are you using to display this information?
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post #6759 of 6772 Old 02-04-2016, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
To add to this; WJW and WOIO are also likely to cause adjacent interference with CBET, especially in Parma and surrounding areas. I remember seeing WJW on channel 7 back in the analog days, even though I'm nowhere near the transmitters.
I'm right between WJW & WOIO. They would be on the sides of a ch 9 yagi aimed at CBET. I know it's a long shot, but if I get a tall enough tower (I'm a ham so the primary use of the tower would be for my hobby, not the attempt to snag CBET) it might be worth a shot.

BTW: I get all the Cleveland TV stations with an indoor Silver Sensor aimed at Youngstown. I get WKBN nearly 24/7 and WNEO about 60% of the times I try. In fact WNEO comes in better than WEAO at times. Of course I can re-aim the SS at Akron, but my main interest is in WKBN, especially during Football season.

With digital and being so close to the transmitters I can get away with reception from the sides and rear of an antenna with no problems. If this was analog OTOH...

Last edited by Michael P 2341; 02-04-2016 at 10:43 AM.
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post #6760 of 6772 Old 02-04-2016, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
What software are you using to display this information?
RTLSDR Scanner (http://eartoearoak.com/software/rtlsdr-scanner)
Also use an old analog spectrum analyzer I put together years ago.
The analog is real-time, the SDR is more accurate.
Got to have a spectrum analyzer to experiment with antennas & RF.
Ed.
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post #6761 of 6772 Old 02-04-2016, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post
I'm right between WJW & WOIO. They would be on the sides of a ch 9 yagi aimed at CBET. I know it's a long shot, but if I get a tall enough tower (I'm a ham so the primary use of the tower would be for my hobby, not the attempt to snag CBET) it might be worth a shot.

BTW: I get all the Cleveland TV stations with an indoor Silver Sensor aimed at Youngstown. I get WKBN nearly 24/7 and WNEO about 60% of the times I try. In fact WNEO comes in better than WEAO at times. Of course I can re-aim the SS at Akron, but my main interest is in WKBN, especially during Football season.

With digital and being so close to the transmitters I can get away with reception from the sides and rear of an antenna with no problems. If this was analog OTOH...
I hate to say it, but I'm exactly 1.0 mile from the WDLI tower, and I have problems with 48 no matter where I aim. I've never logged anything on 48 except WPXI, and that's a strong one. I've done some DXing in Medina where there is no overload problem with adjacent channels, and I've logged WSYX, WTTV, WHME, CFMT, and WMNT, all of RF 48. I've never seen them here at my home with the massive antenna pictured in my avatar.

WEAO at 2.0 miles from here also wipes out DX on RF 51.

How close are you to the WJW and WOIO towers?
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post #6762 of 6772 Old 02-04-2016, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
How close are you to the WJW and WOIO towers?
.8 of a mile from WJW, I don't have an exact distance from WOIO, I'm guessing 1.5 - 2 miles tops.
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post #6763 of 6772 Old 02-05-2016, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post
RTLSDR Scanner (http://eartoearoak.com/software/rtlsdr-scanner)
Also use an old analog spectrum analyzer I put together years ago.
The analog is real-time, the SDR is more accurate.
Got to have a spectrum analyzer to experiment with antennas & RF.
Ed.
Yea, thanks for that. I saw your post yesterday, found and loaded the software and figured out what SDR stick that's compatible to buy on Amazon. I've been looking for an inexpensive spectrum analyzer to throw on a laptop with a USB tuner. Software free, SDR tuner and a couple cables $23!!!
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post #6764 of 6772 Old 02-05-2016, 10:55 AM
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Yea, thanks for that. I saw your post yesterday, found and loaded the software and figured out what SDR stick that's compatible to buy on Amazon. I've been looking for an inexpensive spectrum analyzer to throw on a laptop with a USB tuner. Software free, SDR tuner and a couple cables $23!!!
Times change, the first spectrum analyzer I used at work was around $30,000.
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post #6765 of 6772 Old 02-06-2016, 07:13 AM
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Times change, the first spectrum analyzer I used at work was around $30,000.
They haven't changed that much. If you want one that goes up to about 20gig you're still looking at $30,000 + without options. I just want something to scan OTA to see if I have a signal level problem or an interference problem.
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post #6766 of 6772 Old 02-06-2016, 07:57 AM
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They appear to drop the pilot carrier when they switch to ATSC-3. I have local WHBC 94.1 (x2) right in the middle of the channel although did manage to decode the callsign.
How would a signal on TV Ch 9 interfere with FM 94.1's HD Radio signal?
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post #6767 of 6772 Old 02-06-2016, 02:00 PM
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How would a signal on TV Ch 9 interfere with FM 94.1's HD Radio signal?
The other way around, I'm seeing 94.1's second harmonic in the channel 9 passband. I've yet to see an image from TV-9 but the tuner has recovered the ID. Lot of random noise at those frequencies.
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post #6768 of 6772 Old Yesterday, 04:01 PM
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The other way around, I'm seeing 94.1's second harmonic in the channel 9 passband. I've yet to see an image from TV-9 but the tuner has recovered the ID. Lot of random noise at those frequencies.
I live 2 miles from the WZIP 88.1 and WKSU 89.7 tower. If I don't use a full band FM trap, I don't see any signal from WCDN-7 at all on the Zenith converter box. The reason is because 88.1 x 2 and 89.7 x 2 (the 2nd harmonics) fall right within channel 7, 174 - 180 MHz. With a strong filter, WCDN-7 is right around the decode threshold.
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post #6769 of 6772 Old Today, 11:04 AM
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W25EK now has a construction permit
https://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?facid=184643
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post #6770 of 6772 Old Today, 06:26 PM
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Did anyone have problems with WJW yesterday morning? My TV remapped 8.1 & 8.2 to 8.3 & 8.4, respectively. There was no programming data and no labels as if the PSIP went out. Zenith converter boxes did not remap the channels or lose the labels. The problem was eventually fixed later in the day and luckily my TV did not remember the 8.3 & 8.4 channels.

Also, COZI's picture around 10:30 this morning was messed up. It was too high up and the top of the picture was at the bottom of the screen. Local commercials did not play as well as the hourly ID, so I don't know if the problem was with the network or with WEWS.

Newer is not always better.
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post #6771 of 6772 Old Today, 08:41 PM
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Cozi TV is back to 16x9 SD,
DTV America is determined to get all their apps approved, they also submitted a amendment for WQDI today
https://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?facid=184283
it's in the applications list
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post #6772 of 6772 Old Today, 09:36 PM
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Wonder if this was a channel-sharing test? No sense otherwise having COZI at 720p.

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Cozi TV is back to 16x9 SD,
DTV America is determined to get all their apps approved, they also submitted a amendment for WQDI today
https://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?facid=184283
it's in the applications list
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