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post #6811 of 7042 Old 02-11-2016, 04:56 PM
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Map image works for me. WEKA is green out to the Euclid/Willowick border, and south to most of Parma.

I'm afraid to rescan to get it if it's a virtual 27 since I get WKBN full-time.
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post #6812 of 7042 Old 02-11-2016, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post
Map image works for me. WEKA is green out to the Euclid/Willowick border, and south to most of Parma.

I'm afraid to rescan to get it if it's a virtual 27 since I get WKBN full-time.
The addition of WEKA-LD on 27 should not interfere with WKBN as the RF channels are different. However, results will vary depending on the manufacturer of your TV/converter box. Here are some examples on what may happen...

WEKA's channels maybe mixed in with WKBN's on your TV/converter box, so you might see something like this:
27.1, 27.2, 27.2, 27.3, 27.3, 27.4

Some TV's/boxes may insert the other station's channels before or after, depending which one the TV finds first. (Zenith boxes will do this). So you might see something like this:
27.2, 27.3, 27.4, 27.1, 27.2, 27.3


Or a combination of both:
27.1, 27.2, 27.2, 27.3, 27.3, 27.4

(Red = WKBN, Blue = WEKA)

Worst case scenario would be the TV overwriting WEKA with WKBN when the rescan reaches RF 41. It's probably unlikely that this would happen, but I have seen it happen on a SONY HDTV with WOIO, probably because the PSIP data for their repeater is the same as their full power.

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post #6813 of 7042 Old 02-11-2016, 06:17 PM
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Or WKBN failing to overwrite WEKA. Or WKBN being pushed to 70-1 or 41-1, or any number of other unexpected behaviors. Overlapping virtual channels should be handled in the way you describe, but not all receivers handle it correctly.

I grabbed an e-mail address from a filing for WEKA-LD and asked them to consider moving to 41-1.

- Trip
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post #6814 of 7042 Old 02-11-2016, 06:56 PM
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When I scan, I get WYFX-LD and WOIO (both the Akron repeater & Cleveland main signal) all on virtual channel 19. Why hasn't WYFX ever considered using a different virtual channel? And it probably causes issues with WPCW (virtual 19) on the other side, closer to Pittsburgh.
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post #6815 of 7042 Old 02-12-2016, 02:20 AM
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Likely because nobody ever complained. But WYFX-LD should probably be 62-1, which I believe matches its last analog channel before converting. (Right?)

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post #6816 of 7042 Old 02-12-2016, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
When I scan, I get WYFX-LD and WOIO (both the Akron repeater & Cleveland main signal) all on virtual channel 19. Why hasn't WYFX ever considered using a different virtual channel? And it probably causes issues with WPCW (virtual 19) on the other side, closer to Pittsburgh.
Not the brightest bulbs making the rules (?) then again it's a non issue since "everybody has cable".

The virtual 41 on WEKA would make sense too. Per Antenna Fool, 27 is suppose to be quite a bit stronger out here than 16, yet both my dad & I (being a few miles apart) don't get it (even with his rotor & adjustments only gets to a 13-14 db max), so if they are running at full power, fool is incorrect ... now why doesnt that surprise me when I'm suppsose to get VIZ's repeater on 38 with an indoor?

Correct Trip I believe Fox Y-Town was a LP on 62.

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Or WKBN failing to overwrite WEKA. Or WKBN being pushed to 70-1 or 41-1, or any number of other unexpected behaviors. Overlapping virtual channels should be handled in the way you describe, but not all receivers handle it correctly.
- Trip
I would expect you folks in Akron/Parma to now have 2 27-2 & -3s? likely correct? When I picked up the 55 out of Ft Wayne, I had 2 55-1's.

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Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post
Map image works for me. WEKA is green out to the Euclid/Willowick border, and south to most of Parma.

I'm afraid to rescan to get it if it's a virtual 27 since I get WKBN full-time.
Something changes, all the Maps used to work, not even all the ones at the FCC work (some still do),

Edit: See the map (no contour ring) with the following message:

User contribution

Only KML, KMZ, GeoRss and GPX formats are supported






I checked months ago, WEKA should be throwing a better signal my way.

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post #6817 of 7042 Old 02-12-2016, 08:05 AM
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Likely because nobody ever complained. But WYFX-LD should probably be 62-1, which I believe matches its last analog channel before converting. (Right?)

- Trip
Maybe WYFX thought they would be forgotten at the upper end of the allocation if they kept virtual 62? To me, it seems like all new stations after the transition use the RF channel for their virtual. Wasn't there an issue with WJLP in New York using virtual 3.10, thus making viewers believe the channel was being broadcasted from a neighboring virtual 3 station?

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post #6818 of 7042 Old 02-12-2016, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
Maybe WYFX thought they would be forgotten at the upper end of the allocation if they kept virtual 62? To me, it seems like all new stations after the transition use the RF channel for their virtual. Wasn't there an issue with WJLP in New York using virtual 3.10, thus making viewers believe the channel was being broadcasted from a neighboring virtual 3 station?
Maybe they did think that, but mapping to 19-1 wasn't the right answer. The PSIP standard specifies 62-1 in the case of WYFX-LD.

As far as WJLP, yes, and the FCC has ruled against WJLP (requiring them to use 33-1) and WJLP has appealed.

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post #6819 of 7042 Old 02-12-2016, 09:07 AM
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WOAY TV in West Virginia was on channel 4 analog. Then when they got a digital channel on 50, they re-branded from channel 4 to WOAY TV 50. I'm not sure what the logic was behind that.
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post #6820 of 7042 Old 02-12-2016, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
Maybe WYFX thought they would be forgotten at the upper end of the allocation if they kept virtual 62? To me, it seems like all new stations after the transition use the RF channel for their virtual. Wasn't there an issue with WJLP in New York using virtual 3.10, thus making viewers believe the channel was being broadcasted from a neighboring virtual 3 station?
Does WYFX still identify themselves with the "TV 62" Branding or did they ever?

Since WAOC took on new calls & format post transition, they took on 47 as their Virtual Channel, & dropped 67.

Then there is 61, which for some reason on my main set, reprogrammed itself to 34-3 after the addition of Get & Escape which took on correctly 61-3 & 61-4.

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WOAY TV in West Virginia was on channel 4 analog. Then when they got a digital channel on 50, they re-branded from channel 4 to WOAY TV 50. I'm not sure what the logic was behind that.
The correct thing to do?

A few I have spoke with think OTA is gone because of the virtual channel assignments, it's confusing to them, just like the concept of this "texting" thing is confusing to me!

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post #6821 of 7042 Old 02-12-2016, 09:24 AM
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WOAY TV in West Virginia was on channel 4 analog. Then when they got a digital channel on 50, they re-branded from channel 4 to WOAY TV 50. I'm not sure what the logic was behind that.
New ownership perhaps? Or was it a separate application like W35AX/W16DO?

Remember WRLM dropped 67 and used the RF channel for the virtual when they bought WOAC from Multicultural Television, probably so viewers will find them while channeling from 43 to 49. (Probably thought no one would channel past 55).

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post #6822 of 7042 Old 02-12-2016, 09:42 AM
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If you're seeing the map at all, then JavaScript is working. I can't tell you, though, why the map image isn't showing up.

- Trip
I had to reload the page to get the full map with Longly Rice (using Safari on an iMAC). It comes up faster at work using Firefox on a PC. In any event the coverage map looks exceptional (large "green" area covering the majority of Cuyahoga County) considering the location of the antenna.

Trip, I have a question about WEKA. How can they have Canton as their COL when none of their applications cover Canton? Also with the Cleveland signal lit-up, does that preclude them also lighting up the other application in Medina County?

I wonder why they skipped 27.1? Is DTV America the group that wanted to use the spectrum for wireless broadband?

Finally I have been watching 27.3 "Buzzr" and have yet to see a legal ID.
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post #6823 of 7042 Old 02-12-2016, 09:58 AM
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I had to reload the page to get the full map with Longly Rice (using Safari on an iMAC). It comes up faster at work using Firefox on a PC. In any event the coverage map looks exceptional (large "green" area covering the majority of Cuyahoga County) considering the location of the antenna.

Trip, I have a question about WEKA. How can they have Canton as their COL when none of their applications cover Canton? Also with the Cleveland signal lit-up, does that preclude them also lighting up the other application in Medina County?

I wonder why they skipped 27.1? Is DTV America the group that wanted to use the spectrum for wireless broadband?

Finally I have been watching 27.3 "Buzzr" and have yet to see a legal ID.
27.1 is likely reserved for Telemondo or Dr TV.

I haven't seen any onscreen ID's either. I guess that's why their calls are in all the labels.

At least the time is set correctly.

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post #6824 of 7042 Old 02-12-2016, 10:46 AM
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WOAY TV in West Virginia was on channel 4 analog. Then when they got a digital channel on 50, they re-branded from channel 4 to WOAY TV 50. I'm not sure what the logic was behind that.
Beats me. That one was a puzzler if I've ever seen one. Of course, according to the FCC, WOAY should be 4-1.

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New ownership perhaps? Or was it a separate application like W35AX/W16DO?
Neither.

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I had to reload the page to get the full map with Longly Rice (using Safari on an iMAC). It comes up faster at work using Firefox on a PC. In any event the coverage map looks exceptional (large "green" area covering the majority of Cuyahoga County) considering the location of the antenna.
The maps are very big in terms of file size, which does make them take a while to load on slower connections. And I know on older computers it can be a big sluggish trying to display that massive image over a map like that, but it's really the only way to get such a highly-detailed map that people can zoom in on down to their own houses.

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Trip, I have a question about WEKA. How can they have Canton as their COL when none of their applications cover Canton? Also with the Cleveland signal lit-up, does that preclude them also lighting up the other application in Medina County?

I wonder why they skipped 27.1? Is DTV America the group that wanted to use the spectrum for wireless broadband?

Finally I have been watching 27.3 "Buzzr" and have yet to see a legal ID.
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27.1 is likely reserved for Telemondo or Dr TV.

I haven't seen any onscreen ID's either. I guess that's why their calls are in all the labels.
It's all in reading carefully and understanding how it works. WEKA-LD has three "active" filings. One is a license, for a previous facility. One is a permit, for the new facility. And the final one is a "pending license" for the new facility. Once the pending license ("license to cover") is filed, the station can operate the facility noted in the permit and turn off the previously licensed facility, if it has one, until its license is granted for the new facility, at which point it is now licensed for that facility. So only one of the transmitters on file can operate at a given time. What WEKA-LD did here is "hop" its way in. Its initial permit was granted far away, and the rules allow an LPTV station to move 30 miles at a time, but each step must be licensed. So, like a game of hop-scotch, one step at a time, WEKA-LD moved into Cleveland through the series of filings everyone saw.

As for city of license, there is no requirement in the LPTV rules that an LPTV station cover the community of license. The logic behind this is that, in theory, an LPTV operating at a few watts could cover just a small neighborhood within a community of license, and you wouldn't want a station on a low budget to have to cover more people than necessary. Of course, in practice, you can wind up with things like you see here where the station is actually located nowhere near the community specified.

You're probably right that 27-1 is reserved for programming that has not yet launched. And yes, it's the same DTV America.

LPTV stations are only required to ID maybe once a day (I don't remember) but I have heard that having the call sign in the PSIP is supposed to count for LPTV stations.

- Trip

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post #6825 of 7042 Old 02-12-2016, 11:37 AM
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As for city of license, there is no requirement in the LPTV rules that an LPTV station cover the community of license. The logic behind this is that, in theory, an LPTV operating at a few watts could cover just a small neighborhood within a community of license, and you wouldn't want a station on a low budget to have to cover more people than necessary. Of course, in practice, you can wind up with things like you see here where the station is actually located nowhere near the community specified.

- Trip
WVIZ's translator is in Thompson, COL Eastlake, doubtfully the signal would ever make it there.

So is WEKA running their full power yet or are they just in the testing stages?
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post #6826 of 7042 Old 02-12-2016, 12:33 PM
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WVIZ's translator is in Thompson, COL Eastlake, doubtfully the signal would ever make it there.

So is WEKA running their full power yet or are they just in the testing stages?
I'd have to say they're at full power. ~3.4 kW is being sent in my direction, which makes reception here a tad bit stronger than WVIZ's 1 kW digital broadcast that was being broadcast from their former studios in Parma.

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post #6827 of 7042 Old 02-12-2016, 02:54 PM
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I'd have to say they're at full power. ~3.4 kW is being sent in my direction, which makes reception here a tad bit stronger than WVIZ's 1 kW digital broadcast that was being broadcast from their former studios in Parma.
Well there's another disappointment, looked like they were going to serve the NE viewing area. Was looking forward to Buzzr.
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post #6828 of 7042 Old 02-12-2016, 03:27 PM
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Well there's another disappointment, looked like they were going to serve the NE viewing area. Was looking forward to Buzzr.
It looks like WEKA is putting out most of it's power in your direction. As mentioned before, it's the height of their antenna that hampers it's coverage. You probably could receive them 24/7 if their antenna was on top of one of the Parma towers, even at 5 kW.

Just a thought. I wonder if Media-Com may lease their subs to DTV America, seeing that Media-Com will likely never add additional subs. The .1 sub would still be O&O by Media-Com. Or DTV America could buy WRAP or WRAP could lease out it subs, that is, if they ever make it to the digital airwaves.

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post #6829 of 7042 Old 02-12-2016, 04:58 PM
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I grabbed an e-mail address from a filing for WEKA-LD and asked them to consider moving to 41-1.

- Trip
Trip, WEKA-LD changed their virtual channel to 41. They must have read your e-mail.

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post #6830 of 7042 Old 02-13-2016, 07:32 AM
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Nothing on RF 27 here either, not even a blip.

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Well there's another disappointment, looked like they were going to serve the NE viewing area. Was looking forward to Buzzr.
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post #6831 of 7042 Old 02-13-2016, 08:12 AM
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Trip, WEKA-LD changed their virtual channel to 41. They must have read your e-mail.
Wow, that was fast! Thank you Trip.

I only scanned on one TV that's hooked to an antenna that does not get WKBN. My "main" set-up gets WKBN so I was afraid to scan on that one.
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post #6832 of 7042 Old 02-13-2016, 08:19 AM
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Is there anyone in this forum who can receive the video for WLFM-LP 6 with a good signal? I've been using their test pattern to fine tune my antenna setup to see what works best, and I can't seem to get the picture in color. I'm wondering if this is just a black and white test pattern. Can anyone verify?
I know someone else has answered this,but yes the test pattern is in color. I'm around a mile or so from the tower so I get a watchable but far from perfect picture.

BTW: Back when 87.7 was still playing the AAA format I was able to listen to them driving southeast on US 422 . It was clear throughout southern Geauga county, just like some of the full power FM stations from Cleveland.
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post #6833 of 7042 Old 02-13-2016, 02:52 PM
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Nothing on RF 27 here either, not even a blip.
The call letters WEAK-LD would be more appropriate, because this one doesn't seem to be making it that far beyond Cleveland and its suburbs. I had my portable 3.5" TV with me today in Broadview Heights, and the signal was very hard to receive but I got it. I was using a Mohu Leaf, and antenna placement was very touchy. I'm receiving absolutely nothing here in Akron with my massive antenna, and I'm glad, because we don't need another channel clogger anyways. We already have enough channels down here in Akron.
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post #6834 of 7042 Old 02-13-2016, 03:32 PM
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Would have liked to get BUZZR also.

Oh well, these LP stations are probably not long for this world anyway after they decimate the UHF TV band.

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The call letters WEAK-LD would be more appropriate, because this one doesn't seem to be making it that far beyond Cleveland and its suburbs. I had my portable 3.5" TV with me today in Broadview Heights, and the signal was very hard to receive but I got it. I was using a Mohu Leaf, and antenna placement was very touchy. I'm receiving absolutely nothing here in Akron with my massive antenna, and I'm glad, because we don't need another channel clogger anyways. We already have enough channels down here in Akron.

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post #6835 of 7042 Old 02-13-2016, 04:32 PM
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The call letters WEAK-LD would be more appropriate, because this one doesn't seem to be making it that far beyond Cleveland and its suburbs. I had my portable 3.5" TV with me today in Broadview Heights, and the signal was very hard to receive but I got it. I was using a Mohu Leaf, and antenna placement was very touchy. I'm receiving absolutely nothing here in Akron with my massive antenna, and I'm glad, because we don't need another channel clogger anyways. We already have enough channels down here in Akron.
Good one. You should have tried Brecksville near the WTAM tower as you would have been on top of a hill -better reception according to the map. Yes, it is very touchy/spotty as it took me several minutes to position an antenna inside my house in order to hold the signal. My antenna has to be pointed directly at their transmitter. If it's off by more than 10 degrees, the station breaks up. As of now, the antenna I'm using holds a stable signal at ~17 dB SNR(?) with a few dropouts here and there. If I walk by the antenna or a snow plow goes down the street, the station breaks up badly. Surprisingly the windy weather appears to have no effect on reception. My guess is that WEKA will disappear entirely for me once the snow melts and the leaves come out.

We already know that OTA Newbie can receive WEKA as well as a user on the other forum. I appear to be the only one who can receive WEKA just outside of Cuyahoga County, even with a null in my direction. Jxg0754's problem might be sideband interference from WVIZ and WUAB.

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post #6836 of 7042 Old 02-13-2016, 06:02 PM
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It looks like GetTV was added to 19-2.

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post #6837 of 7042 Old 02-13-2016, 06:50 PM
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What?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
It looks like GetTV was added to 19-2.

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! What happened to Me-TV??????

Oh, wait! That's WYFX Youngstown! Phew!

All joking aside, I heard about the addition a few days ago on the Youngtown thread. I think Get TV has a deal with Media General.

Newer is not always better.
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post #6838 of 7042 Old 02-13-2016, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
Good one. You should have tried Brecksville near the WTAM tower as you would have been on top of a hill -better reception according to the map. Yes, it is very touchy/spotty as it took me several minutes to position an antenna inside my house in order to hold the signal. My antenna has to be pointed directly at their transmitter. If it's off by more than 10 degrees, the station breaks up. As of now, the antenna I'm using holds a stable signal at ~17 dB SNR(?) with a few dropouts here and there. If I walk by the antenna or a snow plow goes down the street, the station breaks up badly. Surprisingly the windy weather appears to have no effect on reception. My guess is that WEKA will disappear entirely for me once the snow melts and the leaves come out.

We already know that OTA Newbie can receive WEKA as well as a user on the other forum. I appear to be the only one who can receive WEKA just outside of Cuyahoga County, even with a null in my direction. Jxg0754's problem might be sideband interference from WVIZ and WUAB.
Maybe its one or many of those nice big and tall apartment complexes near the shoppes at parma or how about the hospital or the other big apartments complexes near the hospital, looks like a nice big wall that could be blocking the signal
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post #6839 of 7042 Old 02-15-2016, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
The call letters WEAK-LD would be more appropriate, because this one doesn't seem to be making it that far beyond Cleveland and its suburbs. I had my portable 3.5" TV with me today in Broadview Heights, and the signal was very hard to receive but I got it. I was using a Mohu Leaf, and antenna placement was very touchy.
According to the TV Fool it's an attic catch for me & a lot stronger than 16 which I occasionally (but rarely) pick up.

If this is their final configuration, I guess like WCDN, I will not be seeing them.

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Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post
I'm receiving absolutely nothing here in Akron with my massive antenna, and I'm glad, because we don't need another channel clogger anyways. We already have enough channels down here in Akron.
I know, cuz ALL signals lead to Akron! except for that one... not even a blip?
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post #6840 of 7042 Old 02-15-2016, 10:55 AM
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Looks like 55.4 finally added guide data.
OTA Newbie likes this.
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