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post #8011 of 8028 Unread 02-17-2017, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post
Good to know the history, though I thought 43 was initially owned by United Artists Broadcasting (Hence UAB), didn't think Kaiser ever owned them, & the story when 61 & 43 were going to merge & go dark, then combine forces & light up 19 which finally had the most powerful signal when they finally did sign on in '85 (rivaling 8) out by me.
I maybe wrong about the ownership. (Someone please correct me). I think United Artists only owned & operated the station for a short time before selling it off to Kaiser/Fields, or they co-owned it with them.

As for the original 19 license, it's owner (Community Telecasters of Cleveland) wanted to sign on as WCTF, but problems kept delaying it's build out and the license eventually got deleted. WUAB did attempt to buy the license in the mid 70's as 19 provided better coverage, but that eventually failed. More info here.

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What's strange about WUAB is I get a reliable but very mediocre signal on 28 with both the Attic & the Roof antenna (when it was operational), yet 28 comes in the best on the indoor rabbit ears followed by 61, 5 & on rare occasions 3... why I'm ticked off about this decision.
Sadly, WUAB's RF 28 only puts out a whopping 200 kW of power, making it the weakest full power commercial station in the area. Their coverage is also full of nulls, which doesn't help either. However, it's still more reliable then WOIO's RF 10.

Though we know that WUAB will continue on broadcasting on WOIO, it's still a shame seeing that they had such a good history and great success as an independent format. Raycom pretty much destroyed it with horrible syndicated shows and put little (if any) effort in improving it. Money is apparently more important then providing entertainment & news to your viewers.

Newer is not always better.
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post #8012 of 8028 Unread 02-17-2017, 06:36 PM
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WUAB (owned by UA) and WKBF (owned by Kaiser, later Kaiser/Field) were completely separate (other than sharing the same TX tower) until 1975 when Kaiser/Field shut down WKBF and turned its license in, and bought a minority stake in WUAB (and moved most of WKBF's popular programming over to WUAB).

A couple years later, Kaiser Broadcasting folded and Field bought out the surviving Kaiser stations (like WKBD in Detroit), except for WUAB which was sold to the outfit that owned the Grand Ole Opry IIRC.

WUAB was a great independent in the 70's and 80's (as well as WKBF during its short life), but you are right, Raycom just ran them into the ground, using the station as a dumping ground and infomercial wasteland. To be fair, though, a lot of independent-station staples like old movies, sports, cartoons, etc. moved to cable are were no longer available to local stations.

They should have just put WUAB out of its misery rather than screwing up WOIO's PQ. Grit and Bounce could have just slid over to 19.

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Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
I maybe wrong about the ownership. (Someone please correct me). I think United Artists only owned & operated the station for a short time before selling it off to Kaiser/Fields, or they co-owned it with them.

As for the original 19 license, it's owner (Community Telecasters of Cleveland) wanted to sign on as WCTF, but problems kept delaying it's build out and the license eventually got deleted. WUAB did attempt to buy the license in the mid 70's as 19 provided better coverage, but that eventually failed. More info here.


Sadly, WUAB's RF 28 only puts out a whopping 200 kW of power, making it the weakest full power commercial station in the area. Their coverage is also full of nulls, which doesn't help either. However, it's still more reliable then WOIO's RF 10.

Though we know that WUAB will continue on broadcasting on WOIO, it's still a shame seeing that they had such a good history and great success as an independent format. Raycom pretty much destroyed it with horrible syndicated shows and put little (if any) effort in improving it. Money is apparently more important then providing entertainment & news to your viewers.
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post #8013 of 8028 Unread 02-17-2017, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post
They should have just put WUAB out of its misery rather than screwing up WOIO's PQ. Grit and Bounce could have just slid over to 19.
But where would their syndicated programming go? Not to mention the MyNetworkTV affiliation. You don't want them to slap that stuff over Me-TV/Bounce/Grit and have a duo affiliation like they do in smaller markets.

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post #8014 of 8028 Unread 02-17-2017, 06:48 PM
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Good point. Do you think MyNet is long for this world? (since it is owned by Fox and we know they made over $300M presumably selling their NYC/LA/Chicago/etc. MyNet duopoly stations)

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But where would their syndicated programming go? Not to mention the MyNetworkTV affiliation. You don't want them to slap that stuff over Me-TV/Bounce/Grit and have a duo affiliation like they do in smaller markets.

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post #8015 of 8028 Unread 02-17-2017, 07:24 PM
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This article claims this encoder can do 2 1080i's and 4 SD's on one RF channel (which is more than WOIO/WUAB with all their subs) with what they claim are good results.

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/8...ust-got-easier

And only CBS really has fast-moving sports that eats a lot of bandwidth.

Snowdog, did you ever hear back from WOIO ?



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Same here, and their encoder for Me-TV isn't the best in the world. It was good enough for when 19.2 was a weather radar.
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post #8016 of 8028 Unread 02-17-2017, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post
This article claims this encoder can do 2 1080i's and 4 SD's on one RF channel (which is more than WOIO/WUAB with all their subs) with what they claim are good results.

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/8...ust-got-easier

And only CBS really has fast-moving sports that eats a lot of bandwidth.

Snowdog, did you ever hear back from WOIO ?
That's great! But with the encoders that WQHS has, both their 1080i channels look hideous under any kind of fast movement. I'm under the impression that their encoders were all updated before they launched Unimas on 61.2. On the other hand, WVIZ's subs all look slightly better now that they activated 25.5, so I'm guessing that hey had to upgrade the encoders before another sub could be added. Even 25.1 looks less compressed then before.

Hopefully WOIO will use that money to buy up-to-date encoders. If WUAB down-converts from 720p to 720i, it may use less bandwidth. I still have a feeling that Grit will be dropped in the future so that it doesn't hamper the PQ of 19-1 and whatever channel WUAB ends up on. Also, there is no local advertising time on Grit, so WUAB/WOIO makes no money by carrying that network. It may eventually get picked up by one of DTV America's under powered stations.

That said, I have not heard back from WOIO. If I don't hear back from them after Monday, then I take it that they're currently not disclosing any details about WUAB's move to WOIO.

Newer is not always better.
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post #8017 of 8028 Unread 02-17-2017, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
Hopefully WOIO will use that money to buy up-to-date encoders. If WUAB down-converts from 720p to 720i, it may use less bandwidth. I still have a feeling that Grit will be dropped in the future so that it doesn't hamper the PQ of 19-1 and whatever channel WUAB ends up on. Also, there is no local advertising time on Grit, so WUAB/WOIO makes no money by carrying that network. It may eventually get picked up by one of DTV America's under powered stations..
Networks with no local time to sell such as Escape and Grit and Laff pay the carrying stations cash compensation instead. This can often be more than the station would make selling local spots.
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post #8018 of 8028 Unread 02-17-2017, 08:42 PM
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Networks with no local time to sell such as Escape and Grit and Laff pay the carrying stations cash compensation instead. This can often be more than the station would make selling local spots.
I thought I heard that somewhere, but wasn't sure. Thanks!
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post #8019 of 8028 Unread 02-17-2017, 09:02 PM
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Some news from Raycom about the sale of WUAB's spectrum. They don't mention channel sharing with WOIO, but rather being relocated to another broadcast channel.

Raycom Media Announces FCC Spectrum Auction Results

It also appears that WUAB was the only station Raycom sold off in the auction.

Newer is not always better.

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post #8020 of 8028 Unread 02-17-2017, 09:04 PM
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I don't believe 720i is an ATSC supported format. I hope they don't drop CBS to 720p.

The article mentions the encoders Univision uses (Harmonic Electra 9200) and says this one (the Evertz one) does a better job. I hope so. Escape looks horrible (freezing artifacts) on WQHS and as you point out there are some bad artifacts on the 1080i channels. GetTV doesn't look too bad considering the bandwidth

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Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
That's great! But with the encoders that WQHS has, both their 1080i channels look hideous under any kind of fast movement. I'm under the impression that their encoders were all updated before they launched Unimas on 61.2. On the other hand, WVIZ's subs all look slightly better now that they activated 25.5, so I'm guessing that hey had to upgrade the encoders before another sub could be added. Even 25.1 looks less compressed then before.

Hopefully WOIO will use that money to buy up-to-date encoders. If WUAB down-converts from 720p to 720i, it may use less bandwidth. I still have a feeling that Grit will be dropped in the future so that it doesn't hamper the PQ of 19-1 and whatever channel WUAB ends up on. Also, there is no local advertising time on Grit, so WUAB/WOIO makes no money by carrying that network. It may eventually get picked up by one of DTV America's under powered stations.

That said, I have not heard back from WOIO. If I don't hear back from them after Monday, then I take it that they're currently not disclosing any details about WUAB's move to WOIO.

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post #8021 of 8028 Unread 02-17-2017, 09:14 PM
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Really surprised that they didn't sell one of the Toledo ones. Detroit/Toledo/Windsor is really crowded, you would think the auction prices would be really high there.

I believe most of their other stations are in small markets in the South where probably few stations needed to be bought to clear 84 MHz.

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Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
Some news from Raycom about the sale of WUAB's spectrum. They don't mention channel sharing with WOIO, but rather being relocated to another broadcast channel.

Raycom Media Announces FCC Spectrum Auction Results

It also appears that WUAB was the only station Raycom sold off in the auction.
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post #8022 of 8028 Unread 02-17-2017, 09:15 PM
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I don't believe 720i is an ATSC supported format. I hope they don't drop CBS to 720p.

The article mentions the encoders Univision uses (Harmonic Electra 9200) and says this one (the Evertz one) does a better job. I hope so. Escape looks horrible on WQHS and as you point out there are some bad artifacts on the 1080i channels.
I don't think so either, but 720p would likely use close to the same bandwidth as 1080i.

I was assuming they meant the Univision station in that market and not including Univision stations in other markets. I hope WOIO goes for the Evertz.

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post #8023 of 8028 Unread 02-17-2017, 09:21 PM
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I would imagine Univision uses the same encoder for all their markets where they do 2 1080i + 2 480i.

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I don't think so either, but 720p would likely use close to the same bandwidth as 1080i.

I was assuming they meant the Univision station in that market and not including Univision stations in other markets. I hope WOIO goes for the Evertz.
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post #8024 of 8028 Unread 02-17-2017, 09:33 PM
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It does 960x720p (vs typical 1280x720p) - that would be one way to save bandwidth on WUAB

http://www.evertz.com/products/3480TXE-ATSC

Wonder why they don't give the price

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I don't think so either, but 720p would likely use close to the same bandwidth as 1080i.

I was assuming they meant the Univision station in that market and not including Univision stations in other markets. I hope WOIO goes for the Evertz.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
Some news from Raycom about the sale of WUAB's spectrum. They don't mention channel sharing with WOIO, but rather being relocated to another broadcast channel.

Raycom Media Announces FCC Spectrum Auction Results

It also appears that WUAB was the only station Raycom sold off in the auction.
They also are moving one to VHF: http://www.broadcastingcable.com/new...-moving/163443

Not sure why it's not mentioned in that press release, unless it's that WUPV is owned by that shell company on Raycom's behalf...

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post #8026 of 8028 Unread Yesterday, 10:08 PM
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Interesting article on channel sharing and stat-mux encoders (though its a couple years old)

They tested up to 3(!) HD's on a single stream, as well as 2HDs and up to 4SDs.

http://www.ctia.org/docs/default-sou...ring-pilot.pdf

From grabbing OTA recordings off my TiVo and running them through VLC it appears WOIO now uses a constant 3MB/sec for MeTv and a constant 15 or 16 MB/sec for CBS19.
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post #8027 of 8028 Unread Today, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post

Why is everyone so worried about
the 24 repeater, you get 10 down there fine.


From my ClearStream (UHF-Only antenna), I do not get RF10 or 8 much at all. If
I swing the antenna around, I can get RF24 and RF41 (WKBN).

But, I also have Basic Cable that gets the Cleveland/Akron area stations, including
some of Subs, like Grunt, PeeTV, Joke, Aunt-TennaTeeVee, Pounce, etc.

TV52 Date-Up: It's been pretty reliable a high percentage of the time since I moved
the antenna to the North Window. Warmer this week, so I'll check on the signal
level each day. Got a peak 71 level today. The biggest improvement is not so
much the signal level increase at the new location, but the 'steadiness' of the signal.

Since the move, I've only seen it two times having the signal take rapid dips with pic breakup.



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post #8028 of 8028 Unread Today, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post

Those analog stations had 100,000 watts.
The digital lo-V's (if they are anything like
WOIO and WJW) will be lucky to have 1/10 that.

The type of impulse noise at these frequencies
wreaks havoc with digital signals. Plus none of
the indoor gimmick antennas that most people have
now will work at these frequencies (they barely work on hi-V).

Oh my. The Cable companies at the outer market fringes... They'll carry these problematic, Low-VHF stations into the homes right along with the pic breakup when ThunderBumpers roll through the area.

With an all-out electrical storm, it'll be a widespread nightmare with reception - Urban or Fringe, I suppose.



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